Originally posted by Niix_Ozek No game compares to daoc pvp Keep the core concepts the same Ie no cd
Lets move on
DAoC not having CD was not a "core concept" but practically impossible because of the limitations of the technolodgy.
Mark said he doesn't want to make DAoC2, and why would he? You can go back and play DAoC if you think it's so amazing. Don't oppose to anything new just because DAoC was your favorite game.
DAOC even with capability with CD would have not worked ...
He said he isn't making DAoC2 because he can't legally make daoc2. He has stated many times he wants to make an old school rvr mmo, and the only good old school rvr mmo was daoc so why would you not expect it to have a lot of similarities.
I noticed the poll for CD has CD winning here, but the poll of KB,Pulls, and leaps has more people not wanting them. It's funny because with CD you need those things.... it just goes to show people don't really think deeply about things and the consequences of a decision must be put in their face for them to even consider them.
With CD comes forced movement abilities. Leaps tend to come as a counter for those forced movement abilities. With leaps you will probably steer away from hard interrupts (that daoc had). A nice little chain that takes away more strategy than CD creates.
What about a endo based CD like Ultima Online? if you have the endo to do so you can 'push' them out of the way and walk through them. personally CD drives me nuts because when there is massive zergs in an area it just turns into a cluster and you are restricted so much it makes you want to cry or punch a baby. But I could live with the UO method of CD
And pretty much mandatory for any CD to work.... yet people scream CD is a must have it adds strategy, and then turn around and comdemn the mechanics that are used to balance it. I like the idea of limited CD on spells or abilities far better than "stone" or "mud" CD all the time.
Only reason the UI is clunky is because its over 10 years old, and honestly biggest reason I don't still play.
I think a dev with his eyes closed now could make a better interface UI.
I'm always floored by foolish comments like this.
First, no one has been able to say how the UI is CLUNKY. It's nice and minimalistic. Things that are minimalistic can hardly be considered clunky.
On top of that, you can completely mod the UI. So you're not locked into it anyway.
But no, the UI and graphics aren't what made the game die. Its the years upon years of moronic patch decisions, dumbing the game down for the WoW audience, and gutting the living world feel of the game.
Originally posted by Odaman And pretty much mandatory for any CD to work.... yet people scream CD is a must have it adds strategy, and then turn around and comdemn the mechanics that are used to balance it.
Oda, I agree. I'm kinda on the fence about CD. It needs to be done REALLY well if it's going to work. That means:
-Account for impenetrable blockage of chokepoints.
-Account for getting trapped in the zerg.
-Account for the possible slide-show-lag-fest at sieges.
On the other hand, without CD the game will have to:
-Account for LoS exploits like "running through," jumping, spinning and lag-casting.
-Account for an inevitable "war of numbers" at sieges.
-Try desparately to balance the CC that will be used to address the first two problems.
In the end, it's really a tough call.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
Originally posted by Odaman And pretty much mandatory for any CD to work.... yet people scream CD is a must have it adds strategy, and then turn around and comdemn the mechanics that are used to balance it. I like the idea of limited CD on spells or abilities far better than "stone" or "mud" CD all the time.
I just hope MJ thinks about the big picture... One could argue listening to the people was what caused daoc to fall to ruin and WAR to blow just as much as the big wigs pulling for more revenue did.
People crying everyday for balance across realms was what caused NF and ruined the uniqueness of the keeps so they didn't have to hear people cry "HIB Keeps are SO EASY TO DEFEND WE CANT TAKE THEM WHAA" or whatever.
Only reason the UI is clunky is because its over 10 years old, and honestly biggest reason I don't still play.
I think a dev with his eyes closed now could make a better interface UI.
I'm always floored by foolish comments like this.
First, no one has been able to say how the UI is CLUNKY. It's nice and minimalistic. Things that are minimalistic can hardly be considered clunky.
On top of that, you can completely mod the UI. So you're not locked into it anyway.
But no, the UI and graphics aren't what made the game die. Its the years upon years of moronic patch decisions, dumbing the game down for the WoW audience, and gutting the living world feel of the game.
It just feels old, not necessarily the look ... but selling items, such limited bag space, talking to NPC's is weird, the Auction house is horrible and buggy,
I prefer the clean look of the UI of daoc, but i should have stated its the other things that seem clunky and slow.
I think if they had finished origins, i would have delt with this issue and prob would be playing that server heh. Assuming its population is not terrible. But i agree there are other issues with the game, but it could run a lot smoother, I do prefer daoc attack / casting animations than anything i've seen in other games.
I am all for collisions .Fight would be much more fun if there were posibillities to defend against bigger army at some choke points . ofcourse would be quite stupid if few tanks with tons of heals could hold gates ... Would it be that hard to implement system where you can push your enemies (or and friends) .so if 2 tanks push at each other one with more str. moves very slowly forward ,also if some friends helping to push from behind they add some strength . this way all gates can get pushed through if forces are just wayyy to different . (In WOT atm its possible to push friends and foes and friends can help you drive faster .... some phisics ) . not sure is it posible for mmos atm ...
Originally posted by povilezaz ... Would it be that hard to implement system where you can push your enemies (or and friends) .so if 2 tanks push at each other one with more str. moves very slowly forward ,also if some friends helping to push from behind they add some strength . this way all gates can get pushed through if forces are just wayyy to different...
I had thought of something like this, too. Maybe even give "large" toons (Firbolg/Half Ogre/Troll types) a bonus in this situation and "small" toons (Lurikeens, Kobolds, inconnu) a penalty. Would make choosing races have a bit more meaning. I'm no coder so I don't know how it might work or how it could affect the framerate.
I'm still of the opinion that CD will have to be done VERY well to be worth it.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
I noticed the poll for CD has CD winning here, but the poll of KB,Pulls, and leaps has more people not wanting them. It's funny because with CD you need those things.... it just goes to show people don't really think deeply about things and the consequences of a decision must be put in their face for them to even consider them.
With CD comes forced movement abilities. Leaps tend to come as a counter for those forced movement abilities. With leaps you will probably steer away from hard interrupts (that daoc had). A nice little chain that takes away more strategy than CD creates.
Hogwash!
Having collision detection between players does not force devs to add "pulling" or "knockback" abilities to the game. That's utter rubbish. Talk about thinking deeply, sheesh!
CD doesn't mean "forced" anything, it does mean you can't walk through things with impunity.
Those who tread with ill intent Beneath our sacred firmament, Whether of Hammer or of Tree, Albion's might shall strike at thee!
Originally posted by Laec What about a endo based CD like Ultima Online? if you have the endo to do so you can 'push' them out of the way and walk through them. personally CD drives me nuts because when there is massive zergs in an area it just turns into a cluster and you are restricted so much it makes you want to cry or punch a baby. But I could live with the UO method of CD
What you refer to is collision detection, a method based on the "mud" filter most likely.
Congratulations, you like CD in games!
Also, large hordes of players should be clusterfucks, just like in real life when you have masses of people trying to occupy a small place.
Those who tread with ill intent Beneath our sacred firmament, Whether of Hammer or of Tree, Albion's might shall strike at thee!
I'm still on the fence about it, leaning towards no; although, I think it should at least be explored. Depending on CU resources (if backed) then I think it's definitely could beta tested to see if it would be something that could work out for CU in the mid-later stages of beta.
If put in, I like the idea of having race matter about CD (CHOICE MATTERS!!). Using Daoc races as an example. A keen couldn't be able to get past a norse, but the same norse would have trouble getting around a half-ogre, but an inconnu could squeeze underneath a firbolg. Just a random thought.
Originally posted by Laec What about a endo based CD like Ultima Online? if you have the endo to do so you can 'push' them out of the way and walk through them. personally CD drives me nuts because when there is massive zergs in an area it just turns into a cluster and you are restricted so much it makes you want to cry or punch a baby. But I could live with the UO method of CD
What you refer to is collision detection, a method based on the "mud" filter most likely.
Congratulations, you like CD in games!
Also, large hordes of players should be clusterfucks, just like in real life when you have masses of people trying to occupy a small place.
Because being in those scenarios in real life is fun ... just like its fun in a game ... NOT
Games supposed to be fun, not just emulate real life... try again.
I'm still on the fence about it, leaning towards no; although, I think it should at least be explored. Depending on CU resources (if backed) then I think it's definitely could beta tested to see if it would be something that could work out for CU in the mid-later stages of beta.
If put in, I like the idea of having race matter about CD (CHOICE MATTERS!!). Using Daoc races as an example. A keen couldn't be able to get past a norse, but the same norse would have trouble getting around a half-ogre, but an inconnu could squeeze underneath a firbolg. Just a random thought.
How about something even more novel that we've never seen in MMOs before.
Make Strength Matter. Perhaps even make Strength result in a "force factor" that is multiplied times your size to give you some sort of inertia factor. So that a really strong norse might be able to move an average strength half-ogre. But a weak half-ogre could probably still push a keen around. A stronger keen could move a weaker keen.
This would add a whole 'nother level of tactics to how castle sieges might go.
Ideally this is a factor the game could have built in and wouldn't need to caculate at each instance of a collision. If they could do this in a non-resource intensive way, it would be incredibly interesting.
Comments
I think people expect too much from a kickstarter project..
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
DAOC even with capability with CD would have not worked ...
He said he isn't making DAoC2 because he can't legally make daoc2. He has stated many times he wants to make an old school rvr mmo, and the only good old school rvr mmo was daoc so why would you not expect it to have a lot of similarities.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
And keep buff bots!
Only reason the UI is clunky is because its over 10 years old, and honestly biggest reason I don't still play.
I think a dev with his eyes closed now could make a better interface UI.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
I noticed the poll for CD has CD winning here, but the poll of KB,Pulls, and leaps has more people not wanting them. It's funny because with CD you need those things.... it just goes to show people don't really think deeply about things and the consequences of a decision must be put in their face for them to even consider them.
With CD comes forced movement abilities. Leaps tend to come as a counter for those forced movement abilities. With leaps you will probably steer away from hard interrupts (that daoc had). A nice little chain that takes away more strategy than CD creates.
Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.
Thomas Jefferson
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
I'm always floored by foolish comments like this.
First, no one has been able to say how the UI is CLUNKY. It's nice and minimalistic. Things that are minimalistic can hardly be considered clunky.
On top of that, you can completely mod the UI. So you're not locked into it anyway.
But no, the UI and graphics aren't what made the game die. Its the years upon years of moronic patch decisions, dumbing the game down for the WoW audience, and gutting the living world feel of the game.
Oda, I agree. I'm kinda on the fence about CD. It needs to be done REALLY well if it's going to work. That means:
-Account for impenetrable blockage of chokepoints.
-Account for getting trapped in the zerg.
-Account for the possible slide-show-lag-fest at sieges.
On the other hand, without CD the game will have to:
-Account for LoS exploits like "running through," jumping, spinning and lag-casting.
-Account for an inevitable "war of numbers" at sieges.
-Try desparately to balance the CC that will be used to address the first two problems.
In the end, it's really a tough call.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
I just hope MJ thinks about the big picture... One could argue listening to the people was what caused daoc to fall to ruin and WAR to blow just as much as the big wigs pulling for more revenue did.
People crying everyday for balance across realms was what caused NF and ruined the uniqueness of the keeps so they didn't have to hear people cry "HIB Keeps are SO EASY TO DEFEND WE CANT TAKE THEM WHAA" or whatever.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
Also Darkfall, DayZ, Mount&Blade...
It just feels old, not necessarily the look ... but selling items, such limited bag space, talking to NPC's is weird, the Auction house is horrible and buggy,
I prefer the clean look of the UI of daoc, but i should have stated its the other things that seem clunky and slow.
I think if they had finished origins, i would have delt with this issue and prob would be playing that server heh. Assuming its population is not terrible. But i agree there are other issues with the game, but it could run a lot smoother, I do prefer daoc attack / casting animations than anything i've seen in other games.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
You can do both, see Darkfall.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
Hogwash!
Having collision detection between players does not force devs to add "pulling" or "knockback" abilities to the game. That's utter rubbish. Talk about thinking deeply, sheesh!
CD doesn't mean "forced" anything, it does mean you can't walk through things with impunity.
Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!
What you refer to is collision detection, a method based on the "mud" filter most likely.
Congratulations, you like CD in games!
Also, large hordes of players should be clusterfucks, just like in real life when you have masses of people trying to occupy a small place.
Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!
I'm still on the fence about it, leaning towards no; although, I think it should at least be explored. Depending on CU resources (if backed) then I think it's definitely could beta tested to see if it would be something that could work out for CU in the mid-later stages of beta.
If put in, I like the idea of having race matter about CD (CHOICE MATTERS!!). Using Daoc races as an example. A keen couldn't be able to get past a norse, but the same norse would have trouble getting around a half-ogre, but an inconnu could squeeze underneath a firbolg. Just a random thought.
Because being in those scenarios in real life is fun ... just like its fun in a game ... NOT
Games supposed to be fun, not just emulate real life... try again.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
How about something even more novel that we've never seen in MMOs before.
Make Strength Matter. Perhaps even make Strength result in a "force factor" that is multiplied times your size to give you some sort of inertia factor. So that a really strong norse might be able to move an average strength half-ogre. But a weak half-ogre could probably still push a keen around. A stronger keen could move a weaker keen.
This would add a whole 'nother level of tactics to how castle sieges might go.
Ideally this is a factor the game could have built in and wouldn't need to caculate at each instance of a collision. If they could do this in a non-resource intensive way, it would be incredibly interesting.