This game is lacking on so many levels, it is hard to believe such a thing is being released in this day and age. And yet, the hype train here rolls on and on...
Turn based is not necessity. NWN1 (and 2) show perfectly good real time implementation for group and mini MMO enviroment.
Neverwinter 1 and 2 ... real time? what have you been smoking? Christ.... get your facts straight, the only D&D games which were real time were DDO and now Neverwinter Online (I think that D&D thing from consoles was also real time but I can't say for sure).
Originally posted by evilastro Originally posted by Lobotomist Originally posted by evilastro There is already another DnD MMO for those who prefer the 3.5 ruleset, tab targetting and slower paced combat. Not sure why you 'purists' expected another one?For what its worth, I am an old school table top DnD fan, and a MMO vet of 15 years, and I think the game is amazing and has lots of potential.Once the Foundry content kicks in and the other classes are released, this is going to keep me occupied for a very long time.
And what can Foundry bring ?
No secret doors
No vertical element of any kind (climbing)
No skill checks (in fact no skills at all)
No locked - lockpicking
No strenght - strenght checks
Or any other kind of checks.
Its like saying : You can build anything with lego" , than giving someone unlimited number of Pirate hats ,and palm tree pieces.
The proper building blocks are just not there
All you can do is be creative with texts - well YAWN to that
I have done Foundry dungeons with hidden doors and climbing in the form of jump puzzles.
The other stuff is boring and irrelevant. Who gives a crap about strength rolls? Will that make the dungeon more fun for you?
You can be creative with layouts, texts, mobs and scripts. What else do you really expect from a video game?
Yes it would make the dungeons more fun , becasue it creates diversity between classes..
you can make class specific challenges in the foundry btw
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Turn based is not necessity. NWN1 (and 2) show perfectly good real time implementation for group and mini MMO enviroment.
Neverwinter 1 and 2 ... real time? what have you been smoking? Christ.... get your facts straight, the only D&D games which were real time were DDO and now Neverwinter Online (I think that D&D thing from consoles was also real time but I can't say for sure).
Neverwinter 1 and 2 where real time with optional pause like the infinity engine games. I dont understand why people cant see the difference between RtwP and TB games is it really so hard to understand? The only true turn based AD&D CRPGs where the old gold box dos titles and in recent times Temple of Elemental Evil and Knight of the Chalice.
There is already another DnD MMO for those who prefer the 3.5 ruleset, tab targetting and slower paced combat. Not sure why you 'purists' expected another one?
For what its worth, I am an old school table top DnD fan, and a MMO vet of 15 years, and I think the game is amazing and has lots of potential.
Once the Foundry content kicks in and the other classes are released, this is going to keep me occupied for a very long time.
DDO is not a tab targeting MMO ..It's an action formula, If your sword hit's something target or not..It hits, if your dice roll hit's that is..
It most certainly is tab targetting. The fact that you don't need to target something to swing your weapon doesn't change that fact. In Everquest 2 I can use AEs without targetting anything, is that not a tab target game now?
Yes EQ2 uses TAB targeting system , the classic one ..But you will never hit another monster with a skill that is just ment for one single target,
In DDO you will hit every monster near you if you swing your sword including the one that you have target with your basic attack, infact you wont need a "target" at all
Game is not too bad for a F2P game. I look forward to seeing how they will make money and what the restrictions are..... I would expect more from it if it was a B2P or subscription game. I'm enjoying it so far.
I wonder as a MMO community whether we are expecting too much of games now-a-days or our expectations are unreasonable? I know I have done this as well.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Turn based is not necessity. NWN1 (and 2) show perfectly good real time implementation for group and mini MMO enviroment.
Neverwinter 1 and 2 ... real time? what have you been smoking? Christ.... get your facts straight, the only D&D games which were real time were DDO and now Neverwinter Online (I think that D&D thing from consoles was also real time but I can't say for sure).
Neverwinter 1 and 2 where real time with optional pause like the infinity engine games. I dont understand why people cant see the difference between RtwP and TB games is it really so hard to understand? The only true turn based AD&D CRPGs where the old gold box dos titles and in recent times Temple of Elemental Evil and Knight of the Chalice.
o.O I suggest you go read up some more, RTwP isn't even a genre and true real time games have no pause option, I remember having this same debate when I was 14 with someone and I thought NWN 1 was real time, it isn't, the turns-based bit really becomes evident in combat, observe how you hit and then the enemy, in real time games you both wail on each other with no regard but in NWN1 and NWN2 you take turns, you hit, the enemy hits, rinse and repeat the only real difference is you have no control when the turns end but the fact is it is not real time (if it was the combat dynamics would be very different).
I have been wary of this game based on the Cryptic name alone. I just never hear anything positive about that company at all. I think they need to either rethink how they approach game development or to throw a lot of money at improving what they have already made. They should probably do both if they want to improve their image in the gaming community.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
Originally posted by Raventree I have been wary of this game based on the Cryptic name alone. I just never hear anything positive about that company at all. I think they need to either rethink how they approach game development or to throw a lot of money at improving what they have already made. They should probably do both if they want to improve their image in the gaming community.
Cryptic is no worse or better than say Funcom, SOE, EA / BIOWARE or insert any other MMO company here which didn't give exactly what players wanted and didn't have face the wrath of the angry touchy feely type.
STO is doing great in terms of population and gets regular updates and support. CO is a very underrated MMO and as far as NW is concerned verdict is still out. If anything i have learned over the years that cryptic like Funcom and SOE although might not get a lot of praise at initial release but are determined to support and improve their games over the years.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Neverwinter 1 and 2 where real time with optional pause like the infinity engine games. I dont understand why people cant see the difference between RtwP and TB games is it really so hard to understand? The only true turn based AD&D CRPGs where the old gold box dos titles and in recent times Temple of Elemental Evil and Knight of the Chalice.
o.O I suggest you go read up some more, RTwP isn't even a genre and true real time games have no pause option, I remember having this same debate when I was 14 with someone and I thought NWN 1 was real time, it isn't, the turns-based bit really becomes evident in combat, observe how you hit and then the enemy, in real time games you both wail on each other with no regard but in NWN1 and NWN2 you take turns, you hit, the enemy hits, rinse and repeat the only real difference is you have no control when the turns end but the fact is it is not real time (if it was the combat dynamics would be very different).
They're neither true real time nor are they true turn based. They're a weird attempt to showcase turn based nature in a real time way. It's true, for melee or ranged, the turn based nature of how the attacks work shows. But if you see a Wizard castng Cloudkill, you can move the moment you see the cast and get out of the way.
True turn based wouldn't allow that, as you wouldn't be able to move like that during a Wizard's turn and would have to wait until yours comes up.
I guess in a way, attacks and standard actions work in this weird turn-based nature, but you're free to move whenever and however you want. Weird mix.
Personally, one of my favorite D&D PC game was Troika's ToEE :P If only they hadn't released it so half finished and bug ridden. Would have loved to see other D&D games take that and do something proper with it. But I like turn based, and what's in the past is now in the past, unfortunately :P
Neverwinter 1 and 2 where real time with optional pause like the infinity engine games. I dont understand why people cant see the difference between RtwP and TB games is it really so hard to understand? The only true turn based AD&D CRPGs where the old gold box dos titles and in recent times Temple of Elemental Evil and Knight of the Chalice.
o.O I suggest you go read up some more, RTwP isn't even a genre and true real time games have no pause option, I remember having this same debate when I was 14 with someone and I thought NWN 1 was real time, it isn't, the turns-based bit really becomes evident in combat, observe how you hit and then the enemy, in real time games you both wail on each other with no regard but in NWN1 and NWN2 you take turns, you hit, the enemy hits, rinse and repeat the only real difference is you have no control when the turns end but the fact is it is not real time (if it was the combat dynamics would be very different).
True turn based wouldn't allow that, as you wouldn't be able to move like that during a Wizard's turn and would have to wait until yours comes up.
I wish I had known you 8 years ago x.x I remember in 2005 having a nasty playthrough in NWN 1 where I kept getting killed by a spellcaster and I did not know you could move and avoid the spell ).
I wish I had known you 8 years ago x.x I remember in 2005 having a nasty playthrough in NWN 1 where I kept getting killed by a spellcaster and I did not know you could move and avoid the spell ).
The only hard spellcaster I remember for my Paladin was that sorcerer in the prisons in Chapter 1. But that was just because of fireball spam against a level 4 >.>
Anyway, my main experience with that was in the multi against and with other players. IIRC, the AI always targetted you, so all their spells target sources was always you.
I don't think you could dodge the AI ones? But tbh, I actually liked the campaign but could never do it more than once. So after that, it was all multi with friends for me
Well i have to say that my first impressions of this game are positive, i liked the story, lore and combat with my Dwarf Guardian Fighter, class i decided to try out.
However there are still flaws which i hope they will fix by the time the game launches, graphics engine seems to lack some optimisation and i have to say that Neverwinter's companion system is utterly terrible in it's current state, for example SWTOR's companion system is far superior to this.
Comments
Neverwinter 1 and 2 ... real time? what have you been smoking? Christ.... get your facts straight, the only D&D games which were real time were DDO and now Neverwinter Online (I think that D&D thing from consoles was also real time but I can't say for sure).
And what can Foundry bring ?
No secret doors
No vertical element of any kind (climbing)
No skill checks (in fact no skills at all)
No locked - lockpicking
No strenght - strenght checks
Or any other kind of checks.
Its like saying : You can build anything with lego" , than giving someone unlimited number of Pirate hats ,and palm tree pieces.
The proper building blocks are just not there
All you can do is be creative with texts - well YAWN to that
I have done Foundry dungeons with hidden doors and climbing in the form of jump puzzles.
The other stuff is boring and irrelevant. Who gives a crap about strength rolls? Will that make the dungeon more fun for you?
You can be creative with layouts, texts, mobs and scripts. What else do you really expect from a video game?
Yes it would make the dungeons more fun , becasue it creates diversity between classes..
you can make class specific challenges in the foundry btwI angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Neverwinter 1 and 2 where real time with optional pause like the infinity engine games. I dont understand why people cant see the difference between RtwP and TB games is it really so hard to understand? The only true turn based AD&D CRPGs where the old gold box dos titles and in recent times Temple of Elemental Evil and Knight of the Chalice.
Yes EQ2 uses TAB targeting system , the classic one ..But you will never hit another monster with a skill that is just ment for one single target,
In DDO you will hit every monster near you if you swing your sword including the one that you have target with your basic attack, infact you wont need a "target" at all
Game is not too bad for a F2P game. I look forward to seeing how they will make money and what the restrictions are..... I would expect more from it if it was a B2P or subscription game. I'm enjoying it so far.
I wonder as a MMO community whether we are expecting too much of games now-a-days or our expectations are unreasonable? I know I have done this as well.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
So, you're basing your statement on rumours and nothing concrete or factual? Thats what I thought.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
o.O I suggest you go read up some more, RTwP isn't even a genre and true real time games have no pause option, I remember having this same debate when I was 14 with someone and I thought NWN 1 was real time, it isn't, the turns-based bit really becomes evident in combat, observe how you hit and then the enemy, in real time games you both wail on each other with no regard but in NWN1 and NWN2 you take turns, you hit, the enemy hits, rinse and repeat the only real difference is you have no control when the turns end but the fact is it is not real time (if it was the combat dynamics would be very different).
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
Cryptic is no worse or better than say Funcom, SOE, EA / BIOWARE or insert any other MMO company here which didn't give exactly what players wanted and didn't have face the wrath of the angry touchy feely type.
STO is doing great in terms of population and gets regular updates and support. CO is a very underrated MMO and as far as NW is concerned verdict is still out. If anything i have learned over the years that cryptic like Funcom and SOE although might not get a lot of praise at initial release but are determined to support and improve their games over the years.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
They're neither true real time nor are they true turn based. They're a weird attempt to showcase turn based nature in a real time way. It's true, for melee or ranged, the turn based nature of how the attacks work shows. But if you see a Wizard castng Cloudkill, you can move the moment you see the cast and get out of the way.
True turn based wouldn't allow that, as you wouldn't be able to move like that during a Wizard's turn and would have to wait until yours comes up.
I guess in a way, attacks and standard actions work in this weird turn-based nature, but you're free to move whenever and however you want. Weird mix.
Personally, one of my favorite D&D PC game was Troika's ToEE :P If only they hadn't released it so half finished and bug ridden. Would have loved to see other D&D games take that and do something proper with it. But I like turn based, and what's in the past is now in the past, unfortunately :P
I wish I had known you 8 years ago x.x I remember in 2005 having a nasty playthrough in NWN 1 where I kept getting killed by a spellcaster and I did not know you could move and avoid the spell
).
The only hard spellcaster I remember for my Paladin was that sorcerer in the prisons in Chapter 1. But that was just because of fireball spam against a level 4 >.>
Anyway, my main experience with that was in the multi against and with other players. IIRC, the AI always targetted you, so all their spells target sources was always you.
I don't think you could dodge the AI ones? But tbh, I actually liked the campaign but could never do it more than once. So after that, it was all multi with friends for me
Well i have to say that my first impressions of this game are positive, i liked the story, lore and combat with my Dwarf Guardian Fighter, class i decided to try out.
However there are still flaws which i hope they will fix by the time the game launches, graphics engine seems to lack some optimisation and i have to say that Neverwinter's companion system is utterly terrible in it's current state, for example SWTOR's companion system is far superior to this.