There are no raids... can you live with that?

Nanfoodle

So can you live with a MMO that has no raids? Or will that make ESO a pit stop for you before you run off to a new MMO that you and your guildies can really enjoy?

Info comes from HERE!!!! : There are no raids, after all – "That's not Elder Scrolls," says Game Director Matt Firor – but there are four-man dungeons and three-faction open PvP with sieges in the beleaguered province of Cyrodiil.

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

March 25th 2013 update EDIT: Any ways standard raids wont be in the game or no plan for them yet so the poll still stands but they plan on having phased events thats will support large team play but not like standard raids. We are all waiting on info to see what thats means. One quote this weekend it sounds more like we will be fighting more masses of mobs in the phased events over just a oversized boss mob. But again thats just reading into what a dev said.

GreenHell

I didn't vote because I'd really have to see how enjoyable the rest of the game is. I just think it's odd that they wouldn't include raids of any sort. I like options and limiting those options in this day and age seems kind of foolish. They are basically alienating a large portion of the MMO demographic that could be potential revenue for them. Doesn't make much sense .

Eir_S

I'm fine with that.  Someone who played the game recently stated that it seems to be more of a multiplayer TES than an MMO anyway.

kabitoshin

At first I liked that Arenanet whent with the no raiding content at first. After being 80 for a while got the dungeon set I like, and farmed all the meta events. That wasn't enough PvE content for me I like raiding, and spenidng several hours to complete a raid. I know they tried not to be like other MMO's but without raiding that takes half the endgame fun out for me. I would like to see PvE missions in the game sometime that take 5 players and maybe a hour or so to do.

NC-John

Seems fine to me. I mean If they have a trial I will give it a go. I havent been a hardcore raider since WOW days. More and more MMO's are starting to focus on crafting, lets hope they finally get that not everyone wants to run a 5 hour wipe fest over and over. plus until we get bill clinton esk economy most people have to work ass off to make ends meet, so raiding is something can't get done these days on a limited time and budget.

The best raid days were when the economy wasnt in the crapper at least in my opinion.

Nanfoodle

Originally posted by GreenHell
I didn't vote because I'd really have to see how enjoyable the rest of the game is. I just think it's odd that they wouldn't include raids of any sort. I like options and limiting those options in this day and age seems kind of foolish. They are basically alienating a large portion of the MMO demographic that could be potential revenue for them. Doesn't make much sense .

This is one of the reasons I voted no. To me this seems like a big mistake to chuck out whats been a major part of MMOing for the past 15 years. I really hope they change their minds on this and not as an after thought with a bunch of 1/2 done raids that are not tripple A quality. You know there will be a bunch of hard core MMOers who will rip the content apart and get to end game and say "There is nothing to do" and quit. A lot of MMOers live for end game content and I have no clue how this game will float with no raids. Maybe as well as GW2?

Livnthedream

I hear no raids are doing wonders for TSW. Also, inb4 "massive group events are the same as raidz!".

 

Maephisto

Personally I am not a progression raider or pve'er for that matter.  But a lack of progression raids just means we will hear from pve'ers a month after launch, asking why thier hands arent held in order to keep them entertained.

At this point, I wonder why games do not include this content.  I know the percentage of hardcore progression raiders is similar to the percentage of hardcore pvp'ers (which is ~ 3 - 5% of population each).  Maybe this is why we are seeing less games launch with raids available.

Additionally, for those who enjoy progression raiding, you have rift and WoW.  At this point, why try to compete with the content and experience of the WoW team? 

I did read on of the previews a couple of days ago.  It stated some of the zones will be dedicated to large group confrontations and the fight itself may become instanced (so not to catch smaller groups unaware).  If done well, this could atleast be a shitty substitute for prog raids.

Rhazmuz

Well, depends how the end game adventure zones/instances are. I read that there are encounters in these areas which requires more than just 1 single group. So if this means raid like encouters can be found, then I have no issues.

Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Rhazmuz
Well, depends how the end game adventure zones/instances are. I read that there are encounters in these areas which requires more than just 1 single group. So if this means raid like encouters can be found, then I have no issues.

The depth of Rift style public events and GW2 meta events didnt keep raiders challenged. Not sure it will in ESO. They look for orgnized events not zurg content.

hMJem

I don't see why raiding isnt in the game.

 

Why can't there be unique gear to raiding, uniqe gear to clearing all 3 faction zones, and unique gear to crafting? Not even necessarily BETTER, but unique so its like "Oh, this is good for this build, so I'll go experience that and I think it'd go nicely with what I have or want to do"

 

I try to think -- Where does this game sit 2 months after launch? Anyone who wants to experience all 3 factions will have done so in a couple months. As far as we know, there is nothing to gain from Cyrodill except for fun/maybe achievements/ "faction pride". So what is there to do after a couple months? 4 man dungeons are said to have gear a little worse than Crafting, and we have no idea if these "World Boss" type things actually have gear worth doing or if it too is for fun.

 

This is an MMORPG. One can argue that alone is more important than the "Elder Scrolls" title in the game as crazy or mad that it may make die-hard Elder Scrolls fans.

 

Are me and my friends really going to want to grind 4 man dungeons when we finish questing when crafting gives undoubtedly the best gear?

 

What's the difference between forcing people to do all 3 factions and crafting for the best gear and forcing people to do Raids? And they wouldnt even need to FORCE Raiding -- Just give it unique gear like I suggest with crafting and completing the factions, it gives EVERYONE incentive and longevity. Because 90% of the population that wanted to do all 3 factions, will have done so after a couple months.

Rhazmuz

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Rhazmuz
Well, depends how the end game adventure zones/instances are. I read that there are encounters in these areas which requires more than just 1 single group. So if this means raid like encouters can be found, then I have no issues.

The depth of Rift style public events and GW2 meta events didnt keep raiders challenged. Not sure it will in ESO.

Ow I know, also why I wouldnt categorize GW2 meta events as raid like encounters.

I read somewhere that some of these bigger encounters in adventure zones "might" be instanced. So I hope they scale it up with more complex mechanics as compared to simply spawning more/mobs with higher hp, as we saw in GW2.

Will have to see how Zenimax follows up post launch, and what kind of content is brough out.

 

korent1991

I played my raids more than enough and I'm sick of that idea.

I can't imagine playing another game which ultimate goal is to farm high end dungeons in raids...

JasonJ

Every MMO has been a pit stop since the genre has taken the themepark route and this one has DaoCs themepark PvP on top of the closed realms and race limitations. They are limitng crafting to maxing two skills or being average in all of them...now I need to wait and see if there are limits to the so called open class system. If they are going to limit how many skill points you can gain, I may not even bother with the game because then, in MY eyes the game will be TES in name/graphics only and a complete waste of time.

Livnthedream

Considering this http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1451113-dear-zos-raiding-is-a-priority-pt-vi/ I would say many raiders feel rather strongly about it.

spookydom

I am more than happy without  raids, never really like the elitist crap and drooling tools it brings to the table. However it seems a bit like they are cutting of their nose to spite their face not including it for the very lucrative audience that enjoys it.

hMJem

I advise you that dont want raiding to read my above post. How is giving each aspect of the game unique gear harmful? (NOT BETTER, BUT UNIQUE THAT YOU CANT GET ELSEWHERE) 

 

This is an MMORPG. This is NOT Elder Scrolls with co-op, get that single player mentality OUT OF YOUR MIND. Whether you dislike it or not, there will be builds that are better than others. If youre completely terrible and bringing the team down in these "World Boss" adventure fights, then the group isnt forced to keep you. Are you going to crybaby it up if a group removes you because youre just facerolling and not being a team player or understanding? Zenimax keeps raving about unique AI and unique dungeon AI and unique world boss AI.

 

And for a lot of people (Myself included) making my character better is fun once I'm max level. I want to do better in PvP. If you think gear wont influence PvP at all youre mistaken. It may not be as big as it is in games such as WoW, but if youre a poorly geared level 50, I doubt you'll keep up with a "best geared" prototype 50.

 

I ask you to answer my biggest question above: Why does Raiding with unique gear hurt the game if theyre forcing you to craft and do all 3 factions for the best gear, and where does this game sit after 2 months of launch?

 

Are people really going to play this game for a whole year off Cyrodill alone? Those who will have wanted to do all three factions will have done so within a couple months of launch.

Nanfoodle

Originally posted by spookydom
I am more than happy without  raids, never really like the elitist crap and drooling tools it brings to the table. However it seems a bit like they are cutting of their nose to spite their face not including it for the very lucrative audience that enjoys it.

Not all raiders are elitist. I used to be a hard core raider back in my EQ1 days but now I dont care if I get best gear in the game but I do like lrage scale PvE raids my guildies and I can go do. Raids dont even need to give the best gear in the game, just equal to it. If they are fun and a challange is all most raiders need.

Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

kabitoshin

This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

Kyleran

I don't raid anymore, in fact I eschew games where the primary end game is focused around it.

Still on the fence about whether or not to play TESO, but the fact it doesn't have raiding is actually a positive as I view it.

 

Maephisto

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

The forum poll from the link you posted, kind of kills the purpose of that thread.

The number of people who voted "don't care" and "no raids" outnumbers those who want raids.  Despite the low number of people who voted on that topic, lets assume it is a decent sample size and reflects the view of the TESO population.  From that poll, it would not be a smart idea to dedicate resources to develop raiding content.

(they could have provided different questions to make raiding seem more popular I guess)

Rthuth434

Originally posted by Livnthedream

I hear no raids are doing wonders for TSW. Also, inb4 "massive group events are the same as raidz!".

 

TSW is a full raiding treadmill game, they just can't pump it out fast enough. TSW has millions of problems though, so it's a poor measuring stick for the solvency of ANY feature.

Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

Lord.Bachus

As long as there is enough challenging groupcontent its not a problem...

hMJem

Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

Cyrodill gives no unique items and such that we're aware of. It seems much more of a casual thing to do for fun. You really think this game is gonna be all - end all with Cyrodill? I sure hope that isnt Zenimax's plan. PvP endgame survives on World PvP (And Cyrodill hardly counts as World PvP to me, its designed. World PvP isnt designed, it just happens wherever you see the opposition, which isnt the case) and stuff like Arenas/Battlegrounds. If Cyrodill is their end-game plan since there is no raiding, then I am concerned. It sounds like crafting is the be all end all of getting gear, so I doubt these World Bosses give anything unique and are just a for fun thing. And lets be honest, do you see yourself doing the same World Boss 20 times if it offers nothing new or better?