Originally posted by Squeak69 i dont mind easy to be honest, but then i dont mind challengeing. i miss fun., what happend to games being about haveing fun instead of hard.
But for some of us challenge is a big part of the fun.
I'm lazy. I'm not going ot deny it. I'm so lazy I will try to abuse my lazyness in games by going for the most basic, mindless buttonmash approach just to get stuff done. If the game doesn't punish me for that lazyness I get bored rather fast. I want to be ocnstantlyc hallenged, frustrated, annoyed and pushed further. I want th ebig bad mob I'm fighting to seriously hurt/kill my character if I mess up. If I don't get this and can justs tand and whack... there is no fun for me.
Or just more difficulty level. It is not like difficulty option is a new thing, even in MMOs. In WOW,you can raid LFR, normal and hard. LFR is easy as pie, and hard is .. well .. you need to practice and run it as a full time job to beat.
In my opinion, having more than one difficulty level for raiding is not good enough. There's so much more in an MMO than only raiding.
Leveling should take longer and mobs should hit harder to make gear even worth an effort to acquire. Dungeons should be challenging enough to promote planning and team work, of which MMOs should be all about in the first place. If a game makes you improve your gear constantly in order to allow you to progress, you have just found there's more in a game than just an end-game.
Someone on this forum said most people didn't care for raiding in Vanilla and TBC. I was one of them and the reason i never really raided was not because the raids were too hard, but because I didn't want to schedulize my life and show up every saturday and sunday at exactly 6:15 to maintain my raid spot. And I didn't have to, since WoW offered lots of stuff to do for a person who didn't like / want to raid.
So, today's WoW gives you a short and effortless leveling experience, ending up to an end-game where you can choose an LFR or hard mode raiding, first one being a-mindless-zerg-aoe-everything-down-and-collect-the-fat-loot -experince and the latter pretty much the same i chose to pass in earlier expansions as well.
That's why we need a totally different server for difficulty levels, and not just different raids.
I've been playing games all my life and I can't remember when I've played a game on the "easy"-setting. Usually I'm comfortable setting the difficulty on "hard" even when I'm playing an entirely new game to me.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Theres times when games are to easy though, but yes... most cases players complain 'to easy' with content, particularly the begining contact when your just starting the game. Its silly how people just try to justify content being easy without going through to the end using 'tutorial' content essencially to judge difficulty of the game throughout.
At the same time, I do see people using the excuse also of claiming difficulty for abstract things not really 'meant' for the game by design. Many of them could be considered (to reference old games) beating Legend of Zelda without the sword and stuff that isn't meant to be done in its design processes that way.
The 'to easy' BS is always dumb, just don't go about using stupid reasons to 'justify' them being wrong cause it just ends up empowering them more and leading to more stupidty. If anything point out their lack of doing top difficulty or the fact they haven't gotten to more difficult parts of the game. Using abstract reasoning only helps to fuel to make it look like they are 'right' even if they aren't.
I have only played one hard MMO. Everquest. There must have been a few others early on.
Hard was playing for 24 hours to guard your spawn with your guild, hard was running in my undies gathering my 10 corpses and QQ'ing to my guild I lost 4 levels, hard was losing my brand new weapon because my corpse rotted.
Originally posted by Waterlily I have only played one hard MMO. Everquest. There must have been a few others early on.Hard was playing for 24 hours to guard your spawn with your guild, hard was running in my undies gathering my 10 corpses and QQ'ing to my guild I lost 4 levels, hard was losing my brand new weapon because my corpse rotted.WoW hard, lol
And what we have here is a classic example of the "hardcore" thinking that "time spent = hard".
I was going to post that a lot of old school hardcore players mistakenly believe that time spent equates to challenge but I dont have to with such a perfect example.
Sorry I should have known someone would be offended.
WoW, Tera and Hello Kitty are hard too. Every game is hard now, no one QQ. You are all winners today. Group hug.
He's right, the stuff you listed isn't hard. It's just tedious bullshit you had to deal with back then.
What's hard is killing Lich King on Heroic Mode without using 30% buff. What's hard was finishing Naxx in Vanilla WoW. The fact that you group WoW and Tera together shows you're just a flamer.
Sorry I should have known someone would be offended.
WoW, Tera and Hello Kitty are hard too. Every game is hard now, no one QQ. You are all winners today. Group hug.
He's right, the stuff you listed isn't hard. It's just tedious bullshit you had to deal with back then.
What's hard is killing Lich King on Heroic Mode without using 30% buff. What's hard was finishing Naxx in Vanilla WoW. The fact that you group WoW and Tera together shows you're just a flamer.
Someone needs a story about WoW and Everquest.
WoW was made by Everquest players, by players from Legacy of Steel. LoS was a medicore guild that had a lot of QQ players on the forums of Everquest. They were ranked somehwere as guild 50, top ones were Tide, Darkwind, Ceistus Dei Aetherius and a few others I don't remember.
They croked somewhere in the middle of Gates of Discord (same place Fires of Heaven and annoying loudmouth Furer croked).
Gates of Discord, at the time, was responsible for the death of many guilds because the expansion was deemed impossible, but with the new level uncap from Omens of War, most guilds went back to Gates of Discord to kill tunat.
The guilds that croked on EQ and QQ'd and bailed on Everquest went to WoW, and some of Legacy of Steel are the creators of WoW, to make, as they called it "a more friendly Everquest".
WoW is as hard as jello. You need to understand the history behind WoW before you can understand why WoW players are looked upon as noob. The creators and many of the early players of WoW were people who were upset that Gates of Discord could not be beaten by any guild and they quit, while other guilds kept at it, finally about a year after the initial launch of Gates of Discord, guilds started enterting Tacvi, by then WoW had already launched and most casual guilds and their players had already left for greener and easier pastures, namely WoW.
While some players try to write off brutal content as "timesinks", anyone who was around playing at that time could see how much more casual WoW was when it launched, the whole idea of WoW was to make an MMO that could support a casual demographic, and they did, quite successfully so.
Challenge has been known to be one of the most vital variables to the success of any kind of leisure experience for decades now. Not just gaming, either, but nearly every form of active entertainment. But just because you make something difficult enough does not mean that people will select it or play long enough to reach it. There has to be a sense of reward for completing the difficult content, whether that is a feeling of accomplishment or an in-game incentive.
MMORPGs are especially bad at this. They'll design a very limited amount of difficult content, or they'll fail to give most players any real incentive to do it. An encounter will only drop an item needed by 25% of the players, or it will drop nothing special at all (e.g., GW2). Expecting players just to play it because it's hard is asinine. Difficulty is only one piece of the puzzle.
"This isn't a WoW-specific issue or even one limited to MMOs. Gamers from all disciplines seem to be fond of complaining about games being easy without actually attempting anything to accomplish difficult. Big Huge Games noted in a GDC 2012 talk that "too easy" was a common complaint about Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, even though two-thirds of its players completed it on the easiest difficulty setting. BioWare's awesome infographic for Mass Effect 3, shown at last week's PAX East, showed that only four percent of players completed the game on "Insanity" difficulty. The "hardcore" in text don't seem to be all that "hardcore" in practice."
"So the next time you find yourself typing "too easy" in a comment box, maybe you should consider whether you've actually tried the hard stuff before you click the post button."
This is so true. Many other examples. WOW's famous Sunwell is done only by 2%. Even when LFR first came out, the "normal" mode is done only by 4% where LFR is done by a whopping 35% of the players.
Take D3 as another example. You can make the game highly difficulty with perma death. How many kill Diablo on MP10 hard core?
I'm quite sure I pointed this out on here and a number of other forums several times in the past. It's forum smack, it always has been. Most people who claim hardcore are the mod users, sploiters and in general cheat their way through content using wiki and any means possible to hit that I-Win button. Then cry at Devs for letting them.
Originally posted by Squeak69 i dont mind easy to be honest, but then i dont mind challengeing. i miss fun., what happend to games being about haveing fun instead of hard.
Originally posted by Squeak69 i dont mind easy to be honest, but then i dont mind challengeing. i miss fun., what happend to games being about haveing fun instead of hard.
Fun is subjective.
All games I played are fun ... otherwise why would i be playing them?
The problem is, there are clearly people playing MMOs today who are not having fun but they refuse to stop playing them because it's all they know how to do.
I've found a lot of people who say MMOs are too "easy" are 10+ year veterans who, after this amout of time, should damn well be quite skilled at playing them.
If it is still "hard" after 10 years, you're doing it wrong...
Even 10+ year vets can find something hard. Have a look at DREAM Paragon, the number 1 WoW guild in the world. A month into the new raid tier and they still haven't cleared all 13 heroic bosses. Keep in mind these are the best raiders in the world, with the best gear, are sponsored, and raid 40+ hours a week.
All games, GW2, WoW, etc, have easy content, and hard content.
I'm sorry, maybe it's just me, but that sounds utterly pathetic. What a bunch of losers.
Most MMOs are too easy in terms of handholding, marking things on the map and having blinking items so you neither have to think or look for clues so people can watch American Idol while playing.
Originally posted by Squeak69 i dont mind easy to be honest, but then i dont mind challengeing. i miss fun., what happend to games being about haveing fun instead of hard.
Fun is subjective.
All games I played are fun ... otherwise why would i be playing them?
The problem is, there are clearly people playing MMOs today who are not having fun but they refuse to stop playing them because it's all they know how to do.
That's just sad.
Says the apparent psychology major.
Different tastes, different reasons. Games can have challenge, puzzles, and yes...even make you use that spongy material in between the ears and be fun. It doesn't all have to be mindless and effortless to be considered fun.
I've found a lot of people who say MMOs are too "easy" are 10+ year veterans who, after this amout of time, should damn well be quite skilled at playing them.
If it is still "hard" after 10 years, you're doing it wrong...
Even 10+ year vets can find something hard. Have a look at DREAM Paragon, the number 1 WoW guild in the world. A month into the new raid tier and they still haven't cleared all 13 heroic bosses. Keep in mind these are the best raiders in the world, with the best gear, are sponsored, and raid 40+ hours a week.
All games, GW2, WoW, etc, have easy content, and hard content.
I'm sorry, maybe it's just me, but that sounds utterly pathetic. What a bunch of losers.
This is one time I agree with Cephus404. That is just sad.
When people refer to 'easy' they are talking about their first 30 days or however it long it takes to get to level cap.
Sure WoW may have challenging raids, but it requires someone to play for many, many hours of quest grind gameplay which involves countless kill 10 easy monster and fed ex quests that require very lttle thought or skill.
Its not like dark souls where from nearly the moment a character is created all enemies are dangerous and there are tons of traps that can 1 shot. Death also has significant consequences.
Easy is a comparative term. Without an associated comparison, it means nothing. It is also a subjective term, being different for everyone. No one else can tell me what I find easy or hard. Only *I* can determine this for myself.
Is getting to the moon easy? Many would answer, "Compared to what?" Needs a comparative to say yes or no.
Hard Mode in gaming 95% (made up number) of the time equates to the player doing half (or less) damage to a monster with double (or more) life than normal setting and/or increasing the number of opponents. It is a rare occasion that monsters get "smarter" in any hard mode setting. Hard mode is simply gimping the player to make it tougher, not changing the game at all. I "gimp" myself in almost every game I play by not grabbing the best gear, but what fits into my concept of my character. "Gimping" does not equate to "hard mode" for me.
And the above just covers combat, albeit 85% or more of most games' interaction.
An NPC with a quest mark on them is easier than an NPC that does not. A marker on a map is easier than no marker. Heck, a map is easier than no map at all. Fast travel is easier than no fast travel. Auto-replenished stats is easier than slow or even no auto-replenishing.
I laugh at players who spout how "easy" a game is when their first action in a game is to find the easiest route via the internet instead of figuring it out for themselves.
When all is said and done, is fighting "The Sleepers" in EQ1 harder than any "hard mode" raid in WoW? Answers will vary depending on the player. A lot factors into each individual response.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
One thing i don't remember hearing anyone say when I was playing EVE Online was "This game is too easy".
*BIG GRIN* Okay, now that post got a chuckle out of me.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
At the time I quit wow, there was not 1 single bit of diffcult content I had not completed. I played that game a couple years and can honestly say that the game is absolutely easy.
Everything I had not completed in the game was simply a matter of doing things repeatedly for several months in order to achive. Repetition is not the same thing as hard.
Originally posted by Waterlily WoW was made by Everquest players, by players from Legacy of Steel. LoS was a medicore guild that had a lot of QQ players on the forums of Everquest. They were ranked somehwere as guild 50, top ones were Tide, Darkwind, Ceistus Dei Aetherius and a few others I don't remember.<snip>The guilds that croked on EQ and QQ'd and bailed on Everquest went to WoW, and some of Legacy of Steel are the creators of WoW, to make, as they called it "a more friendly Everquest".
Not to rain your EQ1 parade, but GoD released in early 2004 (about the time *I* left EQ1) while WoW released later in 2004. How did a bunch of "EQ QQers" from the GoD expansion help in the creation of WoW? Or did WoW take a matter of months to develop and release?
WoW did have some former EQ1 players that helped in development (begun in 1999), yes. The reasons they left EQ1 helped create what would make WoW, WoW. I prefer EQ1 over WoW, but misinformation is never a good thing.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Harder level dungeons and such do not make up for a whole game, I am not a big fan of dungeons having 2-3 levels of difficulty, it just feels like cheap 'content'. Some games change the dungeons some on higher difficulties, but a lot don't.
I didn't see much of a case in the OP's message, a lot of small bits of games being cited....So what if 2% of a game, or 5% of a game is 'hard', and 95-98% is 'easy', or 'too easy'....2-5% doesn't make the rest of a game challenging/fun imo. A lot of games have gotten away from punishing mechanic, like mobs running and grabbing friends if you didn't stop them from getting away.
Games that make it not matter if you die, so people just die to easy travel, or not care if they die...I am more into something if I feel like I lose something (doesn't have to be huge, 10-15 minutes of time getting xp back or whatever, I wouldn't say is too punishing) if I die.
The masses cry if things get difficult, and the companies usually cave and change things for the masses. Everyone wanted to be able to solo on every class, people want solo or 2-3 person dungeons/raids that give higher loot, wanting to be the 'hero', and it isn't heroic if you aren't able to smash everything.
Now this isn't every game, but I would say the majority, need to keep the ADD crowd happy.
Comments
But for some of us challenge is a big part of the fun.
I'm lazy. I'm not going ot deny it. I'm so lazy I will try to abuse my lazyness in games by going for the most basic, mindless buttonmash approach just to get stuff done. If the game doesn't punish me for that lazyness I get bored rather fast. I want to be ocnstantlyc hallenged, frustrated, annoyed and pushed further. I want th ebig bad mob I'm fighting to seriously hurt/kill my character if I mess up. If I don't get this and can justs tand and whack... there is no fun for me.
In my opinion, having more than one difficulty level for raiding is not good enough. There's so much more in an MMO than only raiding.
Leveling should take longer and mobs should hit harder to make gear even worth an effort to acquire. Dungeons should be challenging enough to promote planning and team work, of which MMOs should be all about in the first place. If a game makes you improve your gear constantly in order to allow you to progress, you have just found there's more in a game than just an end-game.
Someone on this forum said most people didn't care for raiding in Vanilla and TBC. I was one of them and the reason i never really raided was not because the raids were too hard, but because I didn't want to schedulize my life and show up every saturday and sunday at exactly 6:15 to maintain my raid spot. And I didn't have to, since WoW offered lots of stuff to do for a person who didn't like / want to raid.
So, today's WoW gives you a short and effortless leveling experience, ending up to an end-game where you can choose an LFR or hard mode raiding, first one being a-mindless-zerg-aoe-everything-down-and-collect-the-fat-loot -experince and the latter pretty much the same i chose to pass in earlier expansions as well.
That's why we need a totally different server for difficulty levels, and not just different raids.
I've been playing games all my life and I can't remember when I've played a game on the "easy"-setting. Usually I'm comfortable setting the difficulty on "hard" even when I'm playing an entirely new game to me.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Theres times when games are to easy though, but yes... most cases players complain 'to easy' with content, particularly the begining contact when your just starting the game. Its silly how people just try to justify content being easy without going through to the end using 'tutorial' content essencially to judge difficulty of the game throughout.
At the same time, I do see people using the excuse also of claiming difficulty for abstract things not really 'meant' for the game by design. Many of them could be considered (to reference old games) beating Legend of Zelda without the sword and stuff that isn't meant to be done in its design processes that way.
The 'to easy' BS is always dumb, just don't go about using stupid reasons to 'justify' them being wrong cause it just ends up empowering them more and leading to more stupidty. If anything point out their lack of doing top difficulty or the fact they haven't gotten to more difficult parts of the game. Using abstract reasoning only helps to fuel to make it look like they are 'right' even if they aren't.
I have only played one hard MMO. Everquest. There must have been a few others early on.
Hard was playing for 24 hours to guard your spawn with your guild, hard was running in my undies gathering my 10 corpses and QQ'ing to my guild I lost 4 levels, hard was losing my brand new weapon because my corpse rotted.
WoW hard, lol
I was going to post that a lot of old school hardcore players mistakenly believe that time spent equates to challenge but I dont have to with such a perfect example.
Thank you.
Sorry I should have known someone would be offended.
WoW, Tera and Hello Kitty are hard too. Every game is hard now, no one QQ. You are all winners today. Group hug.
He's right, the stuff you listed isn't hard. It's just tedious bullshit you had to deal with back then.
What's hard is killing Lich King on Heroic Mode without using 30% buff. What's hard was finishing Naxx in Vanilla WoW. The fact that you group WoW and Tera together shows you're just a flamer.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Someone needs a story about WoW and Everquest.
WoW was made by Everquest players, by players from Legacy of Steel. LoS was a medicore guild that had a lot of QQ players on the forums of Everquest. They were ranked somehwere as guild 50, top ones were Tide, Darkwind, Ceistus Dei Aetherius and a few others I don't remember.
They croked somewhere in the middle of Gates of Discord (same place Fires of Heaven and annoying loudmouth Furer croked).
Gates of Discord, at the time, was responsible for the death of many guilds because the expansion was deemed impossible, but with the new level uncap from Omens of War, most guilds went back to Gates of Discord to kill tunat.
The guilds that croked on EQ and QQ'd and bailed on Everquest went to WoW, and some of Legacy of Steel are the creators of WoW, to make, as they called it "a more friendly Everquest".
WoW is as hard as jello. You need to understand the history behind WoW before you can understand why WoW players are looked upon as noob. The creators and many of the early players of WoW were people who were upset that Gates of Discord could not be beaten by any guild and they quit, while other guilds kept at it, finally about a year after the initial launch of Gates of Discord, guilds started enterting Tacvi, by then WoW had already launched and most casual guilds and their players had already left for greener and easier pastures, namely WoW.
While some players try to write off brutal content as "timesinks", anyone who was around playing at that time could see how much more casual WoW was when it launched, the whole idea of WoW was to make an MMO that could support a casual demographic, and they did, quite successfully so.
Challenge has been known to be one of the most vital variables to the success of any kind of leisure experience for decades now. Not just gaming, either, but nearly every form of active entertainment. But just because you make something difficult enough does not mean that people will select it or play long enough to reach it. There has to be a sense of reward for completing the difficult content, whether that is a feeling of accomplishment or an in-game incentive.
MMORPGs are especially bad at this. They'll design a very limited amount of difficult content, or they'll fail to give most players any real incentive to do it. An encounter will only drop an item needed by 25% of the players, or it will drop nothing special at all (e.g., GW2). Expecting players just to play it because it's hard is asinine. Difficulty is only one piece of the puzzle.
I'm quite sure I pointed this out on here and a number of other forums several times in the past. It's forum smack, it always has been. Most people who claim hardcore are the mod users, sploiters and in general cheat their way through content using wiki and any means possible to hit that I-Win button. Then cry at Devs for letting them.
Ding ding ding ding! We have a winnah!
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
The problem is, there are clearly people playing MMOs today who are not having fun but they refuse to stop playing them because it's all they know how to do.
That's just sad.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'm sorry, maybe it's just me, but that sounds utterly pathetic. What a bunch of losers.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Most MMOs are too easy in terms of handholding, marking things on the map and having blinking items so you neither have to think or look for clues so people can watch American Idol while playing.
lowest common denominator game design
those types of MMOs bore me to tears
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
Says the apparent psychology major.
Different tastes, different reasons. Games can have challenge, puzzles, and yes...even make you use that spongy material in between the ears and be fun. It doesn't all have to be mindless and effortless to be considered fun.
This is one time I agree with Cephus404. That is just sad.
One thing i don't remember hearing anyone say when I was playing EVE Online was "This game is too easy".
When people refer to 'easy' they are talking about their first 30 days or however it long it takes to get to level cap.
Sure WoW may have challenging raids, but it requires someone to play for many, many hours of quest grind gameplay which involves countless kill 10 easy monster and fed ex quests that require very lttle thought or skill.
Its not like dark souls where from nearly the moment a character is created all enemies are dangerous and there are tons of traps that can 1 shot. Death also has significant consequences.
Easy is a comparative term. Without an associated comparison, it means nothing. It is also a subjective term, being different for everyone. No one else can tell me what I find easy or hard. Only *I* can determine this for myself.
Is getting to the moon easy? Many would answer, "Compared to what?" Needs a comparative to say yes or no.
Hard Mode in gaming 95% (made up number) of the time equates to the player doing half (or less) damage to a monster with double (or more) life than normal setting and/or increasing the number of opponents. It is a rare occasion that monsters get "smarter" in any hard mode setting. Hard mode is simply gimping the player to make it tougher, not changing the game at all. I "gimp" myself in almost every game I play by not grabbing the best gear, but what fits into my concept of my character. "Gimping" does not equate to "hard mode" for me.
And the above just covers combat, albeit 85% or more of most games' interaction.
An NPC with a quest mark on them is easier than an NPC that does not. A marker on a map is easier than no marker. Heck, a map is easier than no map at all. Fast travel is easier than no fast travel. Auto-replenished stats is easier than slow or even no auto-replenishing.
I laugh at players who spout how "easy" a game is when their first action in a game is to find the easiest route via the internet instead of figuring it out for themselves.
When all is said and done, is fighting "The Sleepers" in EQ1 harder than any "hard mode" raid in WoW? Answers will vary depending on the player. A lot factors into each individual response.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
*BIG GRIN* Okay, now that post got a chuckle out of me.
At the time I quit wow, there was not 1 single bit of diffcult content I had not completed. I played that game a couple years and can honestly say that the game is absolutely easy.
Everything I had not completed in the game was simply a matter of doing things repeatedly for several months in order to achive. Repetition is not the same thing as hard.
WoW did have some former EQ1 players that helped in development (begun in 1999), yes. The reasons they left EQ1 helped create what would make WoW, WoW. I prefer EQ1 over WoW, but misinformation is never a good thing.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Harder level dungeons and such do not make up for a whole game, I am not a big fan of dungeons having 2-3 levels of difficulty, it just feels like cheap 'content'. Some games change the dungeons some on higher difficulties, but a lot don't.
I didn't see much of a case in the OP's message, a lot of small bits of games being cited....So what if 2% of a game, or 5% of a game is 'hard', and 95-98% is 'easy', or 'too easy'....2-5% doesn't make the rest of a game challenging/fun imo. A lot of games have gotten away from punishing mechanic, like mobs running and grabbing friends if you didn't stop them from getting away.
Games that make it not matter if you die, so people just die to easy travel, or not care if they die...I am more into something if I feel like I lose something (doesn't have to be huge, 10-15 minutes of time getting xp back or whatever, I wouldn't say is too punishing) if I die.
The masses cry if things get difficult, and the companies usually cave and change things for the masses. Everyone wanted to be able to solo on every class, people want solo or 2-3 person dungeons/raids that give higher loot, wanting to be the 'hero', and it isn't heroic if you aren't able to smash everything.
Now this isn't every game, but I would say the majority, need to keep the ADD crowd happy.