Personally, I think the no-PvE remarks tells us that we won't have to level to 50 like we did in DAoC. I see it as more likely that we will have a skill system similar to TSW (but not identical) where people get stronger and more powerful, yet not necessarily in terms of significant hitpoint- or stat-increases.
This is all kinda derived from MJ's comment on these boards stating (paraphrased) that "maybe" there are powerful brings in the world not concerned with crafting or building (wish I could find the exact quote, but it was a fun lil teaser.)
This is actually in one of the FP's i believe, Without refrencing above I beleive i even highlighted that quote in my intial post.
Without PvE the game will not have a very large following. See any current PvP mmorpg out right now (mortals online, darkfall) or could just very well die off (shadowbane,UO).
Originally posted by osiriszoran Without PvE the game will not have a very large following. See any current PvP mmorpg out right now (mortals online, darkfall) or could just very well die off (shadowbane,UO).
Every single one of those you mention has PVE, Mortal online, Darkfall (both very indie mmo's without a huge publisher backing them for advertising/help) and UO (which is still alive, but nothing like it used to be).
Originally posted by osiriszoran Without PvE the game will not have a very large following. See any current PvP mmorpg out right now (mortals online, darkfall) or could just very well die off (shadowbane,UO).
thats exactly right and thats exactly what he is aiming for.. a small loyal fan base..
Even tho hardcore pvp games are very niche they are still aronud and there are people wiling to pay a sub for them even to this day.. UO is still running, Darkfall is has closed down to make way for DF:UW, mortal online is still going even tho it has had massive massive issues.
Shadowbane was so popular that people have taken it upon themselves to create an emulator
People want PVP focused games and are willing to pay for it as well... yes they might never be as popular as WOW but that dont matter as they are not trying to compete.
Now i am sure there will be some forum of PVP probally tied into the crafting system some way or anthoer but i dont think it will have anythingto do with character progression or weapons/items..
Originally posted by osiriszoran Without PvE the game will not have a very large following. See any current PvP mmorpg out right now (mortals online, darkfall) or could just very well die off (shadowbane,UO).
You could also point at the myriad games that focus heavily on PvE and have died off or are dying.
Previous PvP games have not failed because they were focused on PvP, but rather because they were plain bad or had technical issues. Every game you listed had severe technical issues except Ultima Online, and Mortal Online and Darkfall are plain bad beyond that. Shadowbane was actually a great game riddled with bugs and instability. If it had launched smoothly and without so many technical snags, and had a better control scheme, it would have done way, way better. It had huge initial sales but poor retention because of this. I still played it for over a year and had a blast. Camelot Unchained actually looks to be its successor in many areas, and that is a good thing.
It is funny you even mention Ultima Online. The game ruled the landscape for a while, and had over 200,000 subscribers at peak. You point at it now as something that has "die[d] off?" Well, it is over 15-years-old! Of course it is dying off!
I hope Camelot Unchained "dies off" as gracefully and as well as Ultima Online has. Any MMORPG would. Yeesh.
For the sake of argument look how many games that hav come out or are coming out sans PvE, WoT/WoP MWO, PS2, Defiant, to name a few. Even though Defiant has PvE its focus is also PvP. All of these games are recent or new and they are coming out due to demand, some of them are more tournament based but mainly from a design perspective thing slike PS2 are doing ok and are rather succesful as well and have abosoulotley no PvE.
Long story short: If you love (or are at least interested) in the idea of a completely RvR-focused game, this might well be a good project for you to get excited about.
If it's even mildly intriguing, it would probably behoove you to keep an open mind, keep an eye open for it, and give it a try when it comes out to see wha tyou think.
If however, this project sounds as exciting to you as watching paint dry, congratuations! You are the lucky winner of Living in a World Where the Internet Provides You with Many Gaming Options. LOL.
If it's even mildly intriguing, it would probably behoove you to keep an open mind, keep an eye open for it, and give it a try when it comes out to see wha tyou think.
I'd go even further and say that people who find the idea mildly intriguing ought to go ahead and donate $25 to the Kickstarter to get a digital copy of the game cheaper than it will be at release ($40 maybe?) and help ensure it gets made at all.
If it's even mildly intriguing, it would probably behoove you to keep an open mind, keep an eye open for it, and give it a try when it comes out to see wha tyou think.
I'd go even further and say that people who find the idea mildly intriguing ought to go ahead and donate $25 to the Kickstarter to get a digital copy of the game cheaper than it will be at release ($40 maybe?) and help ensure it gets made at all.
Good point, meddyck. Hard to resist a deal.
And for those who don't know, if the kickstarter doesn't reach its full funding goal, you get your money back.
If it funds, they build the game. <looks around warily for a thundering phalanx of trolls shouting, " It's a scam! It's a scam! Run for the hills!">
If it's even mildly intriguing, it would probably behoove you to keep an open mind, keep an eye open for it, and give it a try when it comes out to see wha tyou think.
I'd go even further and say that people who find the idea mildly intriguing ought to go ahead and donate $25 to the Kickstarter to get a digital copy of the game cheaper than it will be at release ($40 maybe?) and help ensure it gets made at all.
Good point, meddyck. Hard to resist a deal.
And for those who don't know, if the kickstarter doesn't reach its full funding goal, you get your money back.
If it funds, they build the game.
Did you know kickstarter backers recently funded over 4 million for a movie? I was pretty impressed. There was also another mmo, Pathfinder online, and the maker of Ultima Online's game (which has online elements) that was recently funded through KS.
I am a huge fan of Kickstarter and other crowd funding programs. It gives people that don't have a big interest behind them a chance to bring their idea to the market place. We don't have to go any further than this industry to cite examples of how a creator's idea can get clouded or pushed to market before it's ready by those who only have an interest in it as far as how much of a return on investment they can make. With KS there is risks too. There will be some that underestimate how much the true cost of getting their project out will be, but that's something I think KS funders should be willing to take (within their own personal financial realities) if they truly believe in the creator's vision.
The MMORPG industry started out as a niche market and over time has expanded to appeal to gamers of all types. I'm happy these gamers are here enjoying what many of us started doing last century but, I am also excited that KS may be an avenue to bring games to the niche community that it all began with. We're still here!
*mumbles something about CSE needing to get their forums up and wanders off to check the KS Countdown Clock*
Long story short: If you love (or are at least interested) in the idea of a completely RvR-focused game, this might well be a good project for you to get excited about.
If it's even mildly intriguing, it would probably behoove you to keep an open mind, keep an eye open for it, and give it a try when it comes out to see wha tyou think.
If however, this project sounds as exciting to you as watching paint dry, congratuations! You are the lucky winner of Living in a World Where the Internet Provides You with Many Gaming Options. LOL.
Ain't technology grand?
Honestly after i leveld in DAOC i spent very little time in PvE, well except in TOA, so that i could stay competetive but that was manufcatured competetion. The rest was in OF and NF campin bridges with a scout and a healer with bunker in the tower.
If the game wants to hold attention at all, its going to have PvE.
not true, many folks love rvr only. Mark is creating a niche game which won't appear to everyone and he realizes that. Saying it wont hold attention at all are you talking about yourself or thousands of ppl who have wanted this game for many years.?:P
MjHas stated many times no PvE, he also has gone so far to state classes can be designed much easier as they do not have to worry about them taking on mobs. So there can be a controller type class that has virtually no damage output.
Just throwing an idea out there about implementing pve with PvP. Why not have the chance to slay dragons in the open world for resources for your side. Now who ever gets the claim first is the only one able to attack the dragon, but the opposing side can try to kill you. You can have a group fighting the dragon, and then have a group protecting them while the other factions try to take the claim. Now for the supplies, which ever side kills the dragon gets resources for themselves that participated in the action. But more importantly, for killing the dragon your side gets supplies shipped for a shared resource on your side to improve what ever can be used with the resources.
If the game wants to hold attention at all, its going to have PvE. it doesn't need to be focused on it so long as it has stuff to do outside killing others, whether its to suppliment for PvP or just other tasks that benefit them in playing. Lets face it, pvp can quickly become very simplistic and boring, even more so then PvE due to the fact its more limited on what can be done considering its player vs player, only able to change the scenario a bit compared to PvE where completely new activities can be mixed in easily.
Heck, the 'PvE' elements itself can work in benefit of the PvP as well, having objectives to work with WHILE doing the pvp aspect of the game. Good example having a full scale battle where friendly npc and enemy npc clash together while the players act as 'generals' of sorts, blazing through the battle field to effect it, the PvE elements making the scenario more intense while not detracting much at all from the PvP.
Either way, PvE WILL be in CU otherwise the game is going to be dropped very quickly. I just have high doubt that gameplay alone would be able to keep the player happy when its the same thing over and over.
Your post makes no sense at all. PvE is the same thing over and over. You fight a mob or boss, and then it is exactly the same every other time after that. In PvP every encounter is different than the previous one. The developers and Mark need to be focused 99% on RvR to make a game successfully that will revolve around it.
I can only assume you have never PvP'ed before .. your not doing the same thing over and over because PvP is not mechanical steps that once you learn you can do it the same way over and over. PVP is human brain against human brain. This means as a human your bound to make mistakes, those mistakes are benefits to the other person your up against. As well as vice versa. I played RVR daoc for years and never got bored of it. Every minute, every hour, every encounter is different. The Human Brain is much more interesting to go up against then mechanical programed mobs. Human players learn from mistakes they make, mechanically programed mobs do not. Now add a group of players against a group of players and you have some very interesting battles to contend with.
Originally posted by Daizedd I think there will definitely be creatures around cuz otherwise forests/wilderness will look pretty darn lifeless. Once you have creatures there you gotta have the option of killing 'em, just wouldn't be realistic otherwise. Once you can kill 'em you gotta be able to skin 'em.
that's a nope on that one. there WON'T be crafting drops from creatures or minions.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Originally posted by Daizedd I think there will definitely be creatures around cuz otherwise forests/wilderness will look pretty darn lifeless. Once you have creatures there you gotta have the option of killing 'em, just wouldn't be realistic otherwise. Once you can kill 'em you gotta be able to skin 'em.
that's a nope on that one. there WON'T be crafting drops from creatures or minions.
That may be true, but i had heard somewhere that thar be dragons and the like.
Originally posted by Daizedd I think there will definitely be creatures around cuz otherwise forests/wilderness will look pretty darn lifeless. Once you have creatures there you gotta have the option of killing 'em, just wouldn't be realistic otherwise. Once you can kill 'em you gotta be able to skin 'em.
that's a nope on that one. there WON'T be crafting drops from creatures or minions.
You are a bit confused, mate. All that has been stated so far is that loot (swords armor etc) will not drop off creatures. Nothing has been said about whether creatures can be skinned/de-boned etc or not and nobody has said there will be no crafting drops at all.
Funny how many people come an debate on a game they dont believe in....i dont care about weightlfiters, butterflies and stamps, and i'll never go visit a web site about it, even less a forum to discuss those things.
This is the best internet quote I have read in a long time. Thank you sir.
Comments
This is actually in one of the FP's i believe, Without refrencing above I beleive i even highlighted that quote in my intial post.
(EDIT) Yep FP 11 bottom of post.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
I really hope they have DF for pve/pvp. Wouldn't be DAoC at all without it.
Just make seals useable items for crafting. How much extra development time could that little bit of pve/npc/terrain take honestly.
Every single one of those you mention has PVE, Mortal online, Darkfall (both very indie mmo's without a huge publisher backing them for advertising/help) and UO (which is still alive, but nothing like it used to be).
thats exactly right and thats exactly what he is aiming for.. a small loyal fan base..
Even tho hardcore pvp games are very niche they are still aronud and there are people wiling to pay a sub for them even to this day.. UO is still running, Darkfall is has closed down to make way for DF:UW, mortal online is still going even tho it has had massive massive issues.
Shadowbane was so popular that people have taken it upon themselves to create an emulator
People want PVP focused games and are willing to pay for it as well... yes they might never be as popular as WOW but that dont matter as they are not trying to compete.
Now i am sure there will be some forum of PVP probally tied into the crafting system some way or anthoer but i dont think it will have anythingto do with character progression or weapons/items..
You could also point at the myriad games that focus heavily on PvE and have died off or are dying.
Previous PvP games have not failed because they were focused on PvP, but rather because they were plain bad or had technical issues. Every game you listed had severe technical issues except Ultima Online, and Mortal Online and Darkfall are plain bad beyond that. Shadowbane was actually a great game riddled with bugs and instability. If it had launched smoothly and without so many technical snags, and had a better control scheme, it would have done way, way better. It had huge initial sales but poor retention because of this. I still played it for over a year and had a blast. Camelot Unchained actually looks to be its successor in many areas, and that is a good thing.
It is funny you even mention Ultima Online. The game ruled the landscape for a while, and had over 200,000 subscribers at peak. You point at it now as something that has "die[d] off?" Well, it is over 15-years-old! Of course it is dying off!
I hope Camelot Unchained "dies off" as gracefully and as well as Ultima Online has. Any MMORPG would. Yeesh.
Long story short: If you love (or are at least interested) in the idea of a completely RvR-focused game, this might well be a good project for you to get excited about.
If it's even mildly intriguing, it would probably behoove you to keep an open mind, keep an eye open for it, and give it a try when it comes out to see wha tyou think.
If however, this project sounds as exciting to you as watching paint dry, congratuations! You are the lucky winner of Living in a World Where the Internet Provides You with Many Gaming Options. LOL.
Ain't technology grand?
I'd go even further and say that people who find the idea mildly intriguing ought to go ahead and donate $25 to the Kickstarter to get a digital copy of the game cheaper than it will be at release ($40 maybe?) and help ensure it gets made at all.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Good point, meddyck. Hard to resist a deal.
And for those who don't know, if the kickstarter doesn't reach its full funding goal, you get your money back.
If it funds, they build the game. <looks around warily for a thundering phalanx of trolls shouting, " It's a scam! It's a scam! Run for the hills!">
Did you know kickstarter backers recently funded over 4 million for a movie? I was pretty impressed. There was also another mmo, Pathfinder online, and the maker of Ultima Online's game (which has online elements) that was recently funded through KS.
I am a huge fan of Kickstarter and other crowd funding programs. It gives people that don't have a big interest behind them a chance to bring their idea to the market place. We don't have to go any further than this industry to cite examples of how a creator's idea can get clouded or pushed to market before it's ready by those who only have an interest in it as far as how much of a return on investment they can make. With KS there is risks too. There will be some that underestimate how much the true cost of getting their project out will be, but that's something I think KS funders should be willing to take (within their own personal financial realities) if they truly believe in the creator's vision.
The MMORPG industry started out as a niche market and over time has expanded to appeal to gamers of all types. I'm happy these gamers are here enjoying what many of us started doing last century but, I am also excited that KS may be an avenue to bring games to the niche community that it all began with. We're still here!
*mumbles something about CSE needing to get their forums up and wanders off to check the KS Countdown Clock*
Honestly after i leveld in DAOC i spent very little time in PvE, well except in TOA, so that i could stay competetive but that was manufcatured competetion. The rest was in OF and NF campin bridges with a scout and a healer with bunker in the tower.
not true, many folks love rvr only. Mark is creating a niche game which won't appear to everyone and he realizes that. Saying it wont hold attention at all are you talking about yourself or thousands of ppl who have wanted this game for many years.?:P
this game dont have any pve
I want to like CU but seriously no or little PVE is a recipe for fail.
I can only assume you have never PvP'ed before .. your not doing the same thing over and over because PvP is not mechanical steps that once you learn you can do it the same way over and over. PVP is human brain against human brain. This means as a human your bound to make mistakes, those mistakes are benefits to the other person your up against. As well as vice versa. I played RVR daoc for years and never got bored of it. Every minute, every hour, every encounter is different. The Human Brain is much more interesting to go up against then mechanical programed mobs. Human players learn from mistakes they make, mechanically programed mobs do not. Now add a group of players against a group of players and you have some very interesting battles to contend with.
that's a nope on that one. there WON'T be crafting drops from creatures or minions.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
That may be true, but i had heard somewhere that thar be dragons and the like.
You are a bit confused, mate. All that has been stated so far is that loot (swords armor etc) will not drop off creatures. Nothing has been said about whether creatures can be skinned/de-boned etc or not and nobody has said there will be no crafting drops at all.
This is the best internet quote I have read in a long time. Thank you sir.