You have no control over how that game is going to shape up
lol, so they will not listen to the community who pledged more than 2 million, and they will stop giving updates, and will not let the community bring any input or bug reports or ideas etc
What are you smoking?
1. This is nothing different than what people do without KS. There is a real misconception about people thinking game companies don't listen to their testers. They do...they just have to make a decision of what's best for the situation. Sometimes they agree, sometime the don't. People don't complain about about the agreements, they complain about the non-agreements which creates rants and gives the perception that devs don't listen.
2. KS is not a platform for you to say, "If you do this my way, then I'm pulling my money out." You should have already seen the product idea prior to pledging, and if it didn't fit what you're looking for, you choose not to pledge. You should know that there will be thousands of ideas coming in from pledgers that will clash with each other. Who should they listen to? The many who pledged a little or few who pledged alot?
ooh, the good old days where you paid upward of $200 for a collector edition, and the developers did not listen to the gamers untill after the game was released.
I guess kickstarter is a step in the wrong direction, the developers are free from the publisher, there are only the players, who get to give feedback directly to the developers, years before release.
I can see why kickstarter is so bad in this economy where the banks don't give loans anymore.
ooh, the good old days where you paid upward of $200 for a collector edition, and the developers did not listen to the gamers untill after the game was released.
I guess kickstarter is a step in the wrong direction, the developers are free from the publisher, there are only the players, who get to give feedback directly to the developers, years before release.
I can see why kickstarter is so bad in this economy where the banks don't give loans anymore.
God help us.
o_0
Your sarcasm is uncalled for. I never said that kickstarter is a bad thing. I even wrote in my original reaction how I understand why players pledge to a game. I just argued with you about the level of influence. That is not what the kickstarter program is about. It is not for you to pay to gain influence on the development. That is not how donating works. You donate after you agree with their goal, not to change their goal.
The problem with kickstarter for me is that you donate, not invest since you'll never see any monetary return no matter how well the game does, based on concepts for a game in this case. Alot of people can come up with concepts for a game that sound appealing, making a good MMO based on those concepts is a whole different story as most people here should know.
If I could buy shares in the company then I might consider doing that, it would be a very risky investment but I'd be supporting a product I want and if it did well I'd get a monetary return on my investment. People who give money on kickstarter deserve a share of the profits if the game does well imo, they helped fund it after all.
Edit: If you were starting up a business would you rather have people giving you money with no questions asked, no demands for you to fulfill and no consequences incase you fail or would you go with a traditional investor who expects a return on his investment and demands influence over your company?
It's very obvious how kickstarter is good for the game developer, I have a harder time seeing the benefits for the donors besides being able to influence certain games to be developed that wouldn't have existed otherwise.
Donors should demand more and not give their money away so easily imo.
Backing a project is more than just giving someone money.
It’s supporting their dream to create something that they want to see exist in the world. People rally around their friends’ projects, fans support people they admire, and others simply come to Kickstarter to be inspired by new ideas. Some projects take longer than anticipated, but creators who are transparent about issues and delays usually find their backers to be understanding.
It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
Launching a Kickstarter is a very public act, and creators put their reputations at risk when they do.
Backers should look for creators who share a clear plan for how their project will be completed and who have a history of doing so. Creators are encouraged to share links and as much background information as possible so backers can make informed decisions about the projects they support.
If a creator has no demonstrable experience in doing something like their project or doesn't share key information, backers should take that into consideration. Does the creator include links to any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects? Does the creator appear in the video? Have they connected via Facebook?
Don't hesitate to request information from a creator. You can always reach out before pledging via the "Contact me" button on the project page.
______________________________________________
Basically there is alot more on those pages that caution people to do their research before pledging anything towards a kickstart project.
As far as gaming projects go all the cautions point towards researching whether the project founder is experienced, trustworthy, etc. It's up to the pledger to do their research and make their own decision. To the people who are skeptical of everything on Kickstarter then it is not for you and you can safely ignore it. To the people that have the income and the desire to back a project for the possiblity of a future return on it in the form of the game they want to play - do your research, weigh the risks and reward and act accordingly. It's really not much more simple than that.
The idea behind the Kick Starter game sounds nice but lets be realistic. Lets just say that a company did release a game but then the game turns out to be very poor. Well everyone who invested lost money on the investment and the purchasing of the game. Because those companies were only obligated to create the game.
The problem is those games can change and suck afterwards, and they legally did what they said. So no Kick Starter games are not better, and I think that if a developer needs support from their community to develop a game they either should stop trying to make it and work for a well established company.
The idea behind the Kick Starter game sounds nice but lets be realistic. Lets just say that a company did release a game but then the game turns out to be very poor. Well everyone who invested lost money on the investment and the purchasing of the game. Because those companies were only obligated to create the game.
The problem is those games can change and suck afterwards, and they legally did what they said. So no Kick Starter games are not better, and I think that if a developer needs support from their community to develop a game they either should stop trying to make it and work for a well established company.
hehe, the same goes for any game that you pre-order (remember Age of Coana :P). Way I see it is, the greater the risk, there is a chance that the rewards is going to be equally great.
I personally like kickstarter and getting a game you want to play rather than buying a game that the developers think you should be playing.
Originally posted by mmoguy43 Now you know what it is like to be an investor.
Yeah.
Isn't Kickstarter perfect for the gamer? Instead of 'suits' putting up money just to make money, it's left to gamers to invest in an idea they'd like to see become reality.
You guys are kidding right? Do you even know what investing is?
When you give money to a KS MMO campaign you're not investing. You're at best purchasing goods and services at an arbitrary price if the project--not the funding goal-- succeeds, and at worst you're just donating money to support their operations for a period of time if it doesn't.
An investor would expect to get their original investment and some profit on top of that if the project succeeds and becomes profitable. Is that what you think is going to happen?
If the KS project promises you a share of future profits, then fine, it's an investment with all of the associated risks and perks. If they don't it's just a risk-free scheme for the developer and they will pocket any profits. In this second case you are just a patron.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
hehe, the same goes for any game that you pre-order (remember Age of Coana :P). Way I see it is, the greater the risk, there is a chance that the rewards is going to be equally great.
I personally like kickstarter and getting a game you want to play rather than buying a game that the developers think you should be playing.
Except they can make whatever they want or be lazy and make trash and theres absolutely nothing you can do about it. At least the suits force the devs to actually work because they're under a contract. Kickstarters pay devs with 0 obligation to actually make a finished product. They could sit around all day eating burritos which is clearly what they did with Warhammer Online.
It is not bad to pre order, in my opinion if you have to ask this question then you are too peer oriented. If you love gaming and like the " idea" a company is pitching and can afford to donate then do so. In any game you play it should evolve around your experience and journey, not someone else's
most likely this have been commented earlier in the thread...buut this may once again be the case of the person who preorder, think this is perfectly fine, and support kickstarter, while people who doesnt preorder think it is the worst ever...
anyway personally I never preordered anything, but that said in the kickstarter campaigns usually it would be no diffrent than to pre-order, even though I think it is abit naive to preorder when some of them is hardly in alpha stage...be it movies or games
also if I were to invest in an idea, I would like a cut of the profit if it were successful...
You lose money nearly every week by purchasing products that weren't as good as you expected.
The way a lot of you talk, you'd think that after the project is funded, the developers have no interest in trying to do a good job. Do you realize how nuts that sounds? Do you not think that they might like to acquire a good reputation and be successful so that they can maybe make, I don't know, more games in the future? It's not like they just take the money and run, laughing into the sunset, retiring on their beachfront properties. Most of them, if anything, work that much harder knowing that their fans have such high expectations of them.
Some serious ignorance about the strengths and difficulties of indie game development here.
So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people.
If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.
I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
Most game developers are slaves to the giant publishers, EA and Blizzard-Activision, and are recycling predictable games. There isn't one ounce of originality from Blizzard (D3, SC2) and Activision (CoD) and EA is also riding on games that are nothing more than sequels (Madden, FIFA, NHL, DICE, ME etc).
I should have added this to my above post but better late than never. Two more reasons to pre order are 1) those who want to ensure they get their game name before someone else takes it. 2) those who at release already have knowledge to help others by advising them on a game that upon release they already know and understand.
So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people. If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them. I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
If this was the case Ultimate Online would never have been born. Subsequently UO's death began when they fired (aka) Lord British and removed his content All good things eventually need funding to grow to be able to reach a larger consumer base
So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people.
If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.
I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
If this was the case Ultimate Online would never have been born. Subsequently UO's death began when they fired (aka) Lord British and removed his content All good things eventually need funding to grow to be able to reach a larger consumer base
What does UO have to do with investing? Seems like a random thing to throw in here.
The guy is right and he just said what I said at the top of the page: the expectation with an investment is that you'll get your money back plus some profit. KS is not an investment, it's a donation or a purchase of goods and services at a dubious price.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Alaya_AngelSoul Originally posted by Destac So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people. If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
If this was the case Ultimate Online would never have been born. Subsequently UO's death began when they fired (aka) Lord British and removed his content All good things eventually need funding to grow to be able to reach a larger consumer base
What does UO have to do with investing? Seems like a random thing to throw in here.
The guy is right and he just said what I said at the top of the page: the expectation with an investment is that you'll get your money back plus some profit. KS is not an investment, it's a donation or a purchase of goods and services at a dubious price.
I used UO as an example of needing funds to accomplish a goal since UO was pretty much the birth mother of gaming as we know it. As far as return on investment I can think of many things. The pride of knowing your involvement gave birth to something that thousands will use and enjoy. How about recognition? Every gamer seeks recognition. There is also access to events and testing instead of constantly updating your email praying you made the list. Also the unique items in game and out that will allow you to be "one of a few" players that own items no one else will ever acquire. I could list a lot of things. But the truth is these are all things you would spend countless hours in a game trying to acquire and failing time and again only to try again so as to own something that sets you apart and above other players. You are getting a return. I think if everyone was honest they would admit that a good portion of their time in game is spent on some of the examples provided above
So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people.
If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.
I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
I think you are the sort of person who would call 90% of other people stupid, who didnt care to understand what sort of background other people made their answer from...ofc more than 90% understand what an investment is...dont be absurd...
So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people.
If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.
I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
If this was the case Ultimate Online would never have been born. Subsequently UO's death began when they fired (aka) Lord British and removed his content All good things eventually need funding to grow to be able to reach a larger consumer base
What does UO have to do with investing? Seems like a random thing to throw in here.
The guy is right and he just said what I said at the top of the page: the expectation with an investment is that you'll get your money back plus some profit. KS is not an investment, it's a donation or a purchase of goods and services at a dubious price.
I used UO as an example of needing funds to accomplish a goal since UO was pretty much the birth mother of gaming as we know it. As far as return on investment I can think of many things. The pride of knowing your involvement gave birth to something that thousands will use and enjoy. How about recognition? Every gamer seeks recognition. There is also access to events and testing instead of constantly updating your email praying you made the list. Also the unique items in game and out that will allow you to be "one of a few" players that own items no one else will ever acquire. I could list a lot of things. But the truth is these are all things you would spend countless hours in a game trying to acquire and failing time and again only to try again so as to own something that sets you apart and above other players. You are getting a return. I think if everyone was honest they would admit that a good portion of their time in game is spent on some of the examples provided above
But that's not investing.
Events and testing...that's a service you're purchasing
Unique in-game items...those are digital goods you're purchasing
You're not getting a "return" a return is your investment + profit. You're simply gambling on your purchase having a real value.
UO's status as the first (it wasn't but whatever) and the fact that all MMOs need money to develop are totally irelevant.
You're just reinforcing what Destac and I both said: not many people here understand what investment is.
And since you don't understand that, how can you possibly understand the dubious morality of using this type of scheme when your goal is to turn a profit?
Donations and patronage are good things if you can afford them. But giving money that way is usually reserved for people or causes that are non-profit. In Kickstarter projects you are giving money to enterpreneurs whose goal it is to turn a profit. That's a significant difference.
And they're getting that money that they will use to try to turn a profit from you by manipulating your dreams of better games, appealing to your desire to be a special gamer who gets invited to alpha, beta and parties, appealing to your vanity by promising to put your name in the credits or use your name in the game, and giving you digital doodads that will give you some alledged gameplay advantage or vanity items.
There is something fundametally sleazy about this once you introduce the profit motive into the equation.
Kickstarter's stated principles and goals are allright if they're used for their alledged intended purpose: donating money to and sponsoring deserving artists that are trying to produce art without any hope or consideration of becoming wealthy doing so.
When used by enterpreneurs with profit motives as an alternative, risk-free scheme for getting their enterprise funded, it's little more than a scam.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
KS sells hope....That is why it meets a better responce that preorder...
Me?...
I say "Up with Dope, Down with Hope." Wait that doesnt seem quite right....
Meh.
What is great about capitalism, is it will teach it's lessons wheather we like it or not. Millions loose millions on faild KS campaigns, and they will stop funding KS campaigns.
Originally posted by Destac So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people. If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
I think you are the sort of person who would call 90% of other people stupid, who didnt care to understand what sort of background other people made their answer from...ofc more than 90% understand what an investment is...dont be absurd...
I do understand what an investment means, and I am not trying to offend anyone or attack anyone.
I am simply offering my opinion for a "gaming" standpoint (which is exactly what is being offered by the game founders)
They are trying to bring their dream into reality And offering you a chance to be a part of that reality (if you believe in the idea of their dream)
If we were talking about tradable stock options we wouldn't be attaching a game title to it, or the process for funding (which incidentally is from a gaming standpoint as well)
Other examples of no monetary return: Donations to cancer research, everyone wants a cure Donations for veterans, many are suffering needlessly. Feeding children in impoverished societies, another dream that needs to become a reality. The point is, if it's something your interested in and care about, then participate in the process.
So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people.
If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.
I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
I think you are the sort of person who would call 90% of other people stupid, who didnt care to understand what sort of background other people made their answer from...ofc more than 90% understand what an investment is...dont be absurd...
I do understand what an investment means, and I am not trying to offend anyone or attack anyone. I am simply offering my opinion for a "gaming" standpoint (which is exactly what is being offered by the game founders) They are trying to bring their dream into reality And offering you a chance to be a part of that reality (if you believe in the idea of their dream) If we were talking about tradable stock options we wouldn't be attaching a game title to it, or the process for funding (which incidentally is from a gaming standpoint as well)
It's a dream and a game to you. It's a money-making enterprise to them.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
1. This is nothing different than what people do without KS. There is a real misconception about people thinking game companies don't listen to their testers. They do...they just have to make a decision of what's best for the situation. Sometimes they agree, sometime the don't. People don't complain about about the agreements, they complain about the non-agreements which creates rants and gives the perception that devs don't listen.
2. KS is not a platform for you to say, "If you do this my way, then I'm pulling my money out." You should have already seen the product idea prior to pledging, and if it didn't fit what you're looking for, you choose not to pledge. You should know that there will be thousands of ideas coming in from pledgers that will clash with each other. Who should they listen to? The many who pledged a little or few who pledged alot?
ooh, the good old days where you paid upward of $200 for a collector edition, and the developers did not listen to the gamers untill after the game was released.
I guess kickstarter is a step in the wrong direction, the developers are free from the publisher, there are only the players, who get to give feedback directly to the developers, years before release.
I can see why kickstarter is so bad in this economy where the banks don't give loans anymore.
God help us.
o_0
Your sarcasm is uncalled for. I never said that kickstarter is a bad thing. I even wrote in my original reaction how I understand why players pledge to a game. I just argued with you about the level of influence. That is not what the kickstarter program is about. It is not for you to pay to gain influence on the development. That is not how donating works. You donate after you agree with their goal, not to change their goal.
Really? You think Diablo 3 would have been the same if it was a kickstarter?
I can do those kind of questions too. What if a potatoe decided to grow up as banana? What then?
The problem with kickstarter for me is that you donate, not invest since you'll never see any monetary return no matter how well the game does, based on concepts for a game in this case. Alot of people can come up with concepts for a game that sound appealing, making a good MMO based on those concepts is a whole different story as most people here should know.
If I could buy shares in the company then I might consider doing that, it would be a very risky investment but I'd be supporting a product I want and if it did well I'd get a monetary return on my investment. People who give money on kickstarter deserve a share of the profits if the game does well imo, they helped fund it after all.
Edit: If you were starting up a business would you rather have people giving you money with no questions asked, no demands for you to fulfill and no consequences incase you fail or would you go with a traditional investor who expects a return on his investment and demands influence over your company?
It's very obvious how kickstarter is good for the game developer, I have a harder time seeing the benefits for the donors besides being able to influence certain games to be developed that wouldn't have existed otherwise.
Donors should demand more and not give their money away so easily imo.
What is Kickstarter?
from: http://www.kickstarter.com/hello?ref=nav
Backing a project is more than just giving someone money.
It’s supporting their dream to create something that they want to see exist in the world. People rally around their friends’ projects, fans support people they admire, and others simply come to Kickstarter to be inspired by new ideas. Some projects take longer than anticipated, but creators who are transparent about issues and delays usually find their backers to be understanding.
Who is responsible for completing a project as promised?
It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
How do backers know if a project will follow through?
Launching a Kickstarter is a very public act, and creators put their reputations at risk when they do.
Backers should look for creators who share a clear plan for how their project will be completed and who have a history of doing so. Creators are encouraged to share links and as much background information as possible so backers can make informed decisions about the projects they support.
If a creator has no demonstrable experience in doing something like their project or doesn't share key information, backers should take that into consideration. Does the creator include links to any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects? Does the creator appear in the video? Have they connected via Facebook?
Don't hesitate to request information from a creator. You can always reach out before pledging via the "Contact me" button on the project page.
______________________________________________
Basically there is alot more on those pages that caution people to do their research before pledging anything towards a kickstart project.
As far as gaming projects go all the cautions point towards researching whether the project founder is experienced, trustworthy, etc. It's up to the pledger to do their research and make their own decision. To the people who are skeptical of everything on Kickstarter then it is not for you and you can safely ignore it. To the people that have the income and the desire to back a project for the possiblity of a future return on it in the form of the game they want to play - do your research, weigh the risks and reward and act accordingly. It's really not much more simple than that.
The idea behind the Kick Starter game sounds nice but lets be realistic. Lets just say that a company did release a game but then the game turns out to be very poor. Well everyone who invested lost money on the investment and the purchasing of the game. Because those companies were only obligated to create the game.
The problem is those games can change and suck afterwards, and they legally did what they said. So no Kick Starter games are not better, and I think that if a developer needs support from their community to develop a game they either should stop trying to make it and work for a well established company.
The Arcade Corner
The Daily Exposition
hehe, the same goes for any game that you pre-order (remember Age of Coana :P). Way I see it is, the greater the risk, there is a chance that the rewards is going to be equally great.
I personally like kickstarter and getting a game you want to play rather than buying a game that the developers think you should be playing.
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You guys are kidding right? Do you even know what investing is?
When you give money to a KS MMO campaign you're not investing. You're at best purchasing goods and services at an arbitrary price if the project--not the funding goal-- succeeds, and at worst you're just donating money to support their operations for a period of time if it doesn't.
An investor would expect to get their original investment and some profit on top of that if the project succeeds and becomes profitable. Is that what you think is going to happen?
If the KS project promises you a share of future profits, then fine, it's an investment with all of the associated risks and perks. If they don't it's just a risk-free scheme for the developer and they will pocket any profits. In this second case you are just a patron.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Except they can make whatever they want or be lazy and make trash and theres absolutely nothing you can do about it. At least the suits force the devs to actually work because they're under a contract. Kickstarters pay devs with 0 obligation to actually make a finished product. They could sit around all day eating burritos which is clearly what they did with Warhammer Online.
most likely this have been commented earlier in the thread...buut this may once again be the case of the person who preorder, think this is perfectly fine, and support kickstarter, while people who doesnt preorder think it is the worst ever...
anyway personally I never preordered anything, but that said in the kickstarter campaigns usually it would be no diffrent than to pre-order, even though I think it is abit naive to preorder when some of them is hardly in alpha stage...be it movies or games
also if I were to invest in an idea, I would like a cut of the profit if it were successful...
You lose money nearly every week by purchasing products that weren't as good as you expected.
The way a lot of you talk, you'd think that after the project is funded, the developers have no interest in trying to do a good job. Do you realize how nuts that sounds? Do you not think that they might like to acquire a good reputation and be successful so that they can maybe make, I don't know, more games in the future? It's not like they just take the money and run, laughing into the sunset, retiring on their beachfront properties. Most of them, if anything, work that much harder knowing that their fans have such high expectations of them.
Some serious ignorance about the strengths and difficulties of indie game development here.
So about 90% of you don't know what an investment is. When you invest in a business you are hoping for a payout to get more money. Well on Kickstarter you are donating to that company and then you can continue to pay more unless they offer you the game at release, but look at the facts people.
If a game needs kick starter to be successful then you should probably avoid putting your money into it. NOT ALL GAMES but most of them.
I don't believe in using kick starter for mmos but if they want to continue using it then go ahead I can't stop you.
The Arcade Corner
The Daily Exposition
Kickstarter helps independent developers.
Most game developers are slaves to the giant publishers, EA and Blizzard-Activision, and are recycling predictable games. There isn't one ounce of originality from Blizzard (D3, SC2) and Activision (CoD) and EA is also riding on games that are nothing more than sequels (Madden, FIFA, NHL, DICE, ME etc).
Two more reasons to pre order are 1) those who want to ensure they get their game name before someone else takes it. 2) those who at release already have knowledge to help others by advising them on a game that upon release they already know and understand.
If this was the case Ultimate Online would never have been born. Subsequently UO's death began when they fired (aka) Lord British and removed his contentAll good things eventually need funding to grow to be able to reach a larger consumer base
What does UO have to do with investing? Seems like a random thing to throw in here.
The guy is right and he just said what I said at the top of the page: the expectation with an investment is that you'll get your money back plus some profit. KS is not an investment, it's a donation or a purchase of goods and services at a dubious price.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
If this was the case Ultimate Online would never have been born. Subsequently UO's death began when they fired (aka) Lord British and removed his content All good things eventually need funding to grow to be able to reach a larger consumer baseWhat does UO have to do with investing? Seems like a random thing to throw in here.
The guy is right and he just said what I said at the top of the page: the expectation with an investment is that you'll get your money back plus some profit. KS is not an investment, it's a donation or a purchase of goods and services at a dubious price.
I used UO as an example of needing funds to accomplish a goal since UO was pretty much the birth mother of gaming as we know it.As far as return on investment I can think of many things. The pride of knowing your involvement gave birth to something that thousands will use and enjoy. How about recognition? Every gamer seeks recognition. There is also access to events and testing instead of constantly updating your email praying you made the list. Also the unique items in game and out that will allow you to be "one of a few" players that own items no one else will ever acquire. I could list a lot of things. But the truth is these are all things you would spend countless hours in a game trying to acquire and failing time and again only to try again so as to own something that sets you apart and above other players. You are getting a return. I think if everyone was honest they would admit that a good portion of their time in game is spent on some of the examples provided above
I think you are the sort of person who would call 90% of other people stupid, who didnt care to understand what sort of background other people made their answer from...ofc more than 90% understand what an investment is...dont be absurd...
But that's not investing.
Events and testing...that's a service you're purchasing
Unique in-game items...those are digital goods you're purchasing
You're not getting a "return" a return is your investment + profit. You're simply gambling on your purchase having a real value.
UO's status as the first (it wasn't but whatever) and the fact that all MMOs need money to develop are totally irelevant.
You're just reinforcing what Destac and I both said: not many people here understand what investment is.
And since you don't understand that, how can you possibly understand the dubious morality of using this type of scheme when your goal is to turn a profit?
Donations and patronage are good things if you can afford them. But giving money that way is usually reserved for people or causes that are non-profit. In Kickstarter projects you are giving money to enterpreneurs whose goal it is to turn a profit. That's a significant difference.
And they're getting that money that they will use to try to turn a profit from you by manipulating your dreams of better games, appealing to your desire to be a special gamer who gets invited to alpha, beta and parties, appealing to your vanity by promising to put your name in the credits or use your name in the game, and giving you digital doodads that will give you some alledged gameplay advantage or vanity items.
There is something fundametally sleazy about this once you introduce the profit motive into the equation.
Kickstarter's stated principles and goals are allright if they're used for their alledged intended purpose: donating money to and sponsoring deserving artists that are trying to produce art without any hope or consideration of becoming wealthy doing so.
When used by enterpreneurs with profit motives as an alternative, risk-free scheme for getting their enterprise funded, it's little more than a scam.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
KS sells hope....That is why it meets a better responce that preorder...
Me?...
I say "Up with Dope, Down with Hope." Wait that doesnt seem quite right....
Meh.
What is great about capitalism, is it will teach it's lessons wheather we like it or not. Millions loose millions on faild KS campaigns, and they will stop funding KS campaigns.
I think you are the sort of person who would call 90% of other people stupid, who didnt care to understand what sort of background other people made their answer from...ofc more than 90% understand what an investment is...dont be absurd...
I do understand what an investment means, and I am not trying to offend anyone or attack anyone.I am simply offering my opinion for a "gaming" standpoint (which is exactly what is being offered by the game founders)
They are trying to bring their dream into reality And offering you a chance to be a part of that reality (if you believe in the idea of their dream)
If we were talking about tradable stock options we wouldn't be attaching a game title to it, or the process for funding (which incidentally is from a gaming standpoint as well)
Other examples of no monetary return: Donations to cancer research, everyone wants a cure Donations for veterans, many are suffering needlessly. Feeding children in impoverished societies, another dream that needs to become a reality. The point is, if it's something your interested in and care about, then participate in the process.
It's a dream and a game to you. It's a money-making enterprise to them.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED