Oh and the other thing that doesn't really make sense is why each faction leader wants to fight for the crown but not to put it on. I mean, even if you use the reasoning that they want to be the power behind the thrown it doesn't work. It isn't like these faction leaders are unknown. And when someone has the crown (i.e. a player) what then? But if the fight is an endless fight then kind of pointless.
So we either have a pointless fight in the middle for something that, once won doesn't stop the war or we fight for the power the crown gives but the faction leader doesn't actually take that power for themselves but gives it to a subordinate.
Sure it is a game but I don't want to play a game that basically uses the defence "It's ok, those guys are stupid, the wouldn't get it even if if made any sense".
This is where a game mechanic trumps logic, and with good cause. What sounds more fun, that you fight for your faction leader to take the throne, or that you fight for yourself to take the throne?
It actually makes more sense than the paradox of klling the big bad guy in the dungeon, only to come back next week to kill him again.
Oh and the other thing that doesn't really make sense is why each faction leader wants to fight for the crown but not to put it on.
yeah, that's a huge plot hole.
The only way that works is if the guild leader of the winning guild is treated like a general and the NPC faction leader actually takes hold the throne.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Oh and the other thing that doesn't really make sense is why each faction leader wants to fight for the crown but not to put it on. I mean, even if you use the reasoning that they want to be the power behind the thrown it doesn't work. It isn't like these faction leaders are unknown. And when someone has the crown (i.e. a player) what then? But if the fight is an endless fight then kind of pointless.
So we either have a pointless fight in the middle for something that, once won doesn't stop the war or we fight for the power the crown gives but the faction leader doesn't actually take that power for themselves but gives it to a subordinate.
Sure it is a game but I don't want to play a game that basically uses the defence "It's ok, those guys are stupid, the wouldn't get it even if if made any sense".
Sometimes we look to deep into our video games and forget they are really about having fun. What the heck I get hit by a hammer brothers hammer and I shrink? Whats that about? Why no head wound? Wait a eat a flower and I can spit fire? Ok this has to get fixed!!!!
You get the highest points in the battle that took Cyrodiil that taken from a number of different metricts and you get a cool title for how ever long your faction keep keep Cyrodiil. 5 min or 5 days. It follows the light lore that everyone is trying to take Cyrodiil for their own want of power. Its fun... the player gets to gloat and everyone can say who is ________? Or hay thats my bud, or how does he rank so high every time, Im gona look up his spec.
Video games, movie, TV shows are so filled with holes in their story and lore we have fans that do nothing but look for them and post them online. The movies and TV shows and often video games will make light of it as well. Is this worth getting upset about? Is it worth taking another positive thread and make it lets hate on the game again? THERE ARE LOTS OF FANS HERE. We are sick of not having even just one thread we can talk about what we like about the game. Get on topic or goto one of the hate threads.
Oh and the other thing that doesn't really make sense is why each faction leader wants to fight for the crown but not to put it on.
yeah, that's a huge plot hole.
The only way that works is if the guild leader of the winning guild is treated like a general and the NPC faction leader actually takes hold the throne.
Its not a plot hole, Kings goto war to win other lands. Lord at home stab them in the back and become King. Generals will take over an army and claim new lands as their own. There are many reasons why someone else gets cowned. Can even be something role players can write in their char story. How they have the throne for 5 min and almost had it all. Its a silly little title that is there for fun and braging rights. Its not a huge hole like a new char shows up in the story we never met before and they were the one who murdered the count. Its a game, not everything has to be deep, sometimes its just about fun.
Ok i know the faction lock and other aspects of how the world and maps work in TESO are a contraversey, but lets set all that aside for this thread please.
Sorry to see your thread ruined by some disrespectful c***s
what i want to hear about is what people think about the rest of the game
the classes
Classes are your starting point when it comes to character customization. How open the role distrubtion to the classes are is still kind of up in the air.
We know that the Dragon Knight has some damage mitigation and taunt abilities, so people would think it's the warrior class, or main tank. But the class also has skills like inferno and fire breath, which sounds more like mage skills. The class is also said to have some buff skills. All in all the class is based more around fire and brimstone than pure warrior skills. You can build him in many different ways, not only as a full frontal fighter.
The Templar's abilities are based around the theme of the sun. The three skill lines are said to focus on healing, ranged damage, and interrupts/knockbacks. How you decide to play him is still up to you, but he is the only class with a skill line dedicated to healing. Still any class can heal with the restoration staff.
The Sorcerer's three skill lines are Dark Magic, Deadric Summoning and Storm Calling. They are said to be focused on crowd control, ...well deadric summons, and dps. An important thing to notice here tho (which can be said for all the classes) is that one skill line doesn't focus entirely on one role, but is rather a collection of skills with the same theme. For instance in Storm Calling (which is said to be a dps skill line) has skills like blink (lets you teleport a short distance) and electric conduct (which adds some damage mitigation while dealing some damage around you). In the Deadric Summoning line you also find bound armor that also adds damage reduction. So potentially sorcerers could be very good tanks.
Not much is known about the Nightblade. We can only speculate it has illision skills, movement and concealment skills, maybe poisons? and so on.
What i think will determine roles is more what armor you decide to use. Heavy armor for tanking, medium armor for weapon skill usage and light armor for class skill usage. Of course you can mix armor types. Also we don't quite know what each weapon style will be good at, except for sword and board for damage reduction and restoration staff for healing.
the crafting
Not much is known, experimental based.
the combat mechanics,
Reticle based combat. Your character placed a bit to the left in the screen. Your left click attack is said to be the main damage dealing factor, while the skills on your skillbar is mostly used for utility. Right click to block. Left click while blocking to interupt. Dodge is in. Sprint is in. Resource management is very much a big deal. You can break out of crowd control by using stamina. This also makes you immune to crowd control for 7 seconds.
Very much a deck building game. 6 skills on your skillbar (1 being an ultimate). You can place any skill you have access to on your skill bar (except some skill lines can't be mixed like lycantrophy and vampirism). Skill lines include racial, class, weapon, armor, AvA, guild and world. You can also have a back up weapon that you can swap to, that at the same time swaps out the skillbar for a second one.
the quest layouts.
Said to be exploration based, but most quests given by NPCs
stuff i missed.
Some tidbits
Cyrodil is slightly larger than the Oblivion version, making up for 2/5 of the world.
Cyrodil has crafting resources only found in that region.
Cyrodil has 18 public dungeons.
There are no cloaks in ESO
There is a disguise tab that lets you dress up like other PvE encounters, works pretty much like sneaking.
Soulstones are in the game, and will tie into player resurection among other things.
There are Gods you can worship that gives you unique active and/or passive skills. Only one active at one time.
When exploring you can stumble upon sky shards. 3 sky shards gives you a skill point.
i know some of this is still behind NDA but lets talk about these aspects of the game that we can guess from vids or have learned from announcements.
I know I'm gonna get flamed big time for this but what the hell.
I'm pretty sad about the whole sorry mess tbh. It looks to me like someone is trying to make a DAoC copy with RvR and a class based MMO but didn't have the right backing until they worked out a deal to get the TES IP name thrown into the pot, because the game I'm seeing is not an Elder Scrolls game.
Obviously there has to be some compromise when moving your SRPG to the MMORPG arena or there would be too many problems with basic things like tuning content to the level of players. That has to be done by areas or it just gets too complicated.
What you don't do is change the core design philosophy of your game. Classes? WTF is that all about? That isn't TES. Region locking? 3 faction RvR? Both of these are something thrown in to force PvP gameplay. As already suggested, choosing a faction should have been left up to the players, regardless of race or region. Let the players make the decisions they always did in TES games. Quit ramming choices down the players throats. It seems to me that we're being jammed into a little box called TESO where we have to conform to the rules and behave, instead of being given a huge big box called "TES - The MMO!" and then told to go play.
Let the players choose where to start, where to go to, who to fight for and which skills they want to use. Kinda like any TES we've seen previously.
This isn't TESO despite it's name, it's an attempt at DAoC 2. They just got the geography wrong. I'd have been happier if they just admitted it and called it something more appropriate, like DAoC2 maybe? Or WAR 2.0...hmm. Then maybe someone could make a proper TES MMO that is designed like the TES series and they could call that TESO. I would love to play an online massively multiplayer version of TES but this ain't it. I won't be playing it because, quite frankly in my completely worthless and humble opinion, it's not worthy of the name and it's an injustice to an IP that has been loved and played by millions worldwide for 19 years. It's insulting is what it is.
That's my opinion anyway. No doubt there will be many who are happy to buy into the game. Up to them I suppose, poor misguided fools that they are.
So, now all the fanatics can come out and flame me, call me a noob, a whiner, or even "entitled", possibly the most idiotic comment I've seen yet on this site. Yes, I'm obviously some entitled brat because I question the design mistakes in an MMO based on an IP I've personally been playing since 1994 when TES Arena first released. Yes, I am that old.
I love how the classes are a starting point and can turn any of them into tanks, DPS, healers or hybrid classes. I have been wanting a class system like this for a long time. I really wana make a Battlemage type char. Melee and AE spells. Will start as a DK or a Mage.
This thread is not about faction locking jeez. Gtfo and find the correct thread if you want to discuss that.
About your comment on classes. Personally i find the skill system in ESO even more freeform than Skyrim's. Classes are only a small potion of what you can do with your character. Almost any kind of concept of a character you can think of can be realized in ESO. Want to be a small fat sneaking redguard specializing in fire staffs and fire spells, go for it. Want to be a tall cocky altmer blinking around on the battlefield wearing heavy armor and a giant sword, be my guest. Want to blaze enemies with the power of the sun while shooting your bow, the choice is yours.
This thread is not about faction locking jeez. Gtfo and find the correct thread if you want to discuss that.
About your comment on classes. Personally i find the skill system in ESO even more freeform than Skyrim's. Classes are only a small potion of what you can do with your character. Almost any kind of concept of a character you can think of can be realized in ESO. Want to be a small fat sneaking redguard specializing in fire staffs and fire spells, go for it. Want to be a tall cocky altmer blinking around on the battlefield wearing heavy armor and a giant sword, be my guest. Want to blaze enemies with the power of the sun while shooting your bow, the choice is yours.
This thread is not about faction locking jeez. Gtfo and find the correct thread if you want to discuss that.
About your comment on classes. Personally i find the skill system in ESO even more freeform than Skyrim's. Classes are only a small potion of what you can do with your character. Almost any kind of concept of a character you can think of can be realized in ESO. Want to be a small fat sneaking redguard specializing in fire staffs and fire spells, go for it. Want to be a tall cocky altmer blinking around on the battlefield wearing heavy armor and a giant sword, be my guest. Want to blaze enemies with the power of the sun while shooting your bow, the choice is yours.
Hopefully the whiners will get tired and that will happen here eventually.
In the meantime, if you want details, you might want to check-out the development FAQ and Game Info sections at http://tamrielfoundry.com/
i have read through it just more intrested in what people think with the info we have so far.
Faction lock complainers are those who fall into the entitlement mindset. They often ask why as if that is really a point. They have trained themselves to ask WHY often.
That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Everyone should ask why often. Asking why has nothing to do with entitlement. Fear of asking Why makes you a sheep. Why is one of the most important questions you can ask followed closely by how. No advancements come without these two questions.
Asking why an IP that has focused mainly on freedom and choice has gone a more restrictive route has nothing to do with entitlement.
We know that the Dragon Knight has some damage mitigation and taunt abilities, so people would think it's the warrior class, or main tank. But the class also has skills like inferno and fire breath, which sounds more like mage skills. The class is also said to have some buff skills. All in all the class is based more around fire and brimstone than pure warrior skills. You can build him in many different ways, not only as a full frontal fighter.
There are no cloaks in ESO
sounds like a throw back to skyrim mains tory char which is cool, cause a fighter type with breath weapons would be awsome.
sadly their have not been clocks in a ES games since dagger fall, which i am sad for but i do understand that on high end grapics freeflowing capes and cloacks and such et up so much proccessing it not even funny.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
We know that the Dragon Knight has some damage mitigation and taunt abilities, so people would think it's the warrior class, or main tank. But the class also has skills like inferno and fire breath, which sounds more like mage skills. The class is also said to have some buff skills. All in all the class is based more around fire and brimstone than pure warrior skills. You can build him in many different ways, not only as a full frontal fighter.
There are no cloaks in ESO
sounds like a throw back to skyrim mains tory char which is cool, cause a fighter type with breath weapons would be awsome.
sadly their have not been clocks in a ES games since dagger fall, which i am sad for but i do understand that on high end grapics freeflowing capes and cloacks and such et up so much proccessing it not even funny.
Keep in mind there is also a guardian class. In truth, other than the "starting class" you should be able to make whatever you want.
Qutie frankly I don't even know why they are bothering with classes in "this way" as opposed to having suggested classes/templates and then allowing players to pick those at the start or just "create as you go".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
We know that the Dragon Knight has some damage mitigation and taunt abilities, so people would think it's the warrior class, or main tank. But the class also has skills like inferno and fire breath, which sounds more like mage skills. The class is also said to have some buff skills. All in all the class is based more around fire and brimstone than pure warrior skills. You can build him in many different ways, not only as a full frontal fighter.
There are no cloaks in ESO
sounds like a throw back to skyrim mains tory char which is cool, cause a fighter type with breath weapons would be awsome.
sadly their have not been clocks in a ES games since dagger fall, which i am sad for but i do understand that on high end grapics freeflowing capes and cloacks and such et up so much proccessing it not even funny.
Keep in mind there is also a guardian class. In truth, other than the "starting class" you should be able to make whatever you want.
Qutie frankly I don't even know why they are bothering with classes in "this way" as opposed to having suggested classes/templates and then allowing players to pick those at the start or just "create as you go".
From what I gather this game is made up of skill sets. Dual weild have a bunch of skills that can only be found there. 2h sword again its own skill set. So on and so on. I think the classes again have a set of skills all of their own. So I can make a mage and put him in full plate and make a battlemage and someone else can do the same thing with a DK but in the end it would be a different flavor and have access to different skills.
Oh and the other thing that doesn't really make sense is why each faction leader wants to fight for the crown but not to put it on. I mean, even if you use the reasoning that they want to be the power behind the thrown it doesn't work. It isn't like these faction leaders are unknown. And when someone has the crown (i.e. a player) what then? But if the fight is an endless fight then kind of pointless.
So we either have a pointless fight in the middle for something that, once won doesn't stop the war or we fight for the power the crown gives but the faction leader doesn't actually take that power for themselves but gives it to a subordinate.
Sure it is a game but I don't want to play a game that basically uses the defence "It's ok, those guys are stupid, the wouldn't get it even if if made any sense".
This is where a game mechanic trumps logic, and with good cause. What sounds more fun, that you fight for your faction leader to take the throne, or that you fight for yourself to take the throne?
It actually makes more sense than the paradox of klling the big bad guy in the dungeon, only to come back next week to kill him again.
Tangentially you have hit upon the whole problem with Zenimax's approach.
Yes - gameplay trumps plot, or lore etc. It may be a close call in some cases - but generally if a game is better with something which causes friction with the former - it's better off in rather than out.
However - the only reason these things are in opposition is because Zenimax made them that way. There were ways to create a 3-way factionalised game without player Emperors, or game spoiling (for some people) inconsistency, or logical paradoxes.
Factional Kings and Queens taking the massive risk of concentrating over fighting for a throne while the whole world gets dragged to one version of hell - instead of teaming up to deal with the mutual threat...
... then rolling over and playing second fiddle to a player Emperor...!?
... that just beggars belief...
Let's not even mention restricting the war to one area when in every war ever fought where the option arose - attacking the enemy's home base created military advantage...
Yes - mechanics trumps logic - but it only has to because Zenimax couldn't see the ES wood for the DaOC trees at the concept stage.
They should have melded the essence and excellence of both models together holistically - not crowbarred one in on the other to the detriment of one, or both - forcing themselves to have to rely on the mechanics trumping logic card.
It was unimaginative and tunnel-visioned - and as has been pointed out, is now way too late to fundamentally fix, even if Zenimax have come up with an imaginative compromise at this late stage.
They could have done with exercising such creative muscle earlier instead of fixating on a particular formula and missing some fairly fundamental mistakes along the way whilst fitting the IP over it.
It sounds like the story is about a whole world forgetting about their impending doom and instead, worrying about who will sit on a silly throne. Even in Skyrim, a player could halt the Civil War until the threat of Alduin was taken care of. Not here in TES:O, though. Nope. Who will be Emperor is of the utmost importance. Instead of working together as a whole, they divide themselves into 3 factions to fight amongst themselves for control of a world in dire peril.
Personally, I have no desire to help in any way that bunch of power mongers who put their own self-interests before saving the whole world.
Nirn and Oblivion merging into a nightmarish conglomeration? No. There is an empty throne to be had!
A well argued position.
The 'plot' is so full of holes it ought to be a sieve.
Nevertheless, I hope it's something of a red herring which can be ignored if the game is good enough.
However - people arguing that the plot 'makes sense' in support of their own agenda, and then saying it wouldn't if it was changed to support someone else's is hypocritical nonsense.
It doesn't make sense at all... and it's difficult to see how any level of modification could make it less logical...
I actually agree that the plot could change and still make sense. There could be any number of ways to spin the story. We found some common ground!
Where I disagree with you is on how quickly you come to the conclusion that you know more than the barest bones of the plot at all. Enough so that you feel confident in labelling it a strainer. Of course the story doesn't make sense yet. You haven't heard it.
You're critcising something that you literally only know the first thing about.
My previous post on this page deals with the issues I am addressing - and these have been explained by Zenimax already;
Player Emperors somehow flowing logically out of NPC Faction Leaders efforts to win. Are they all saintly altruists or something?
Area-restricted 'all-out' war. Did they make a 'gentleman's agreement' without telling anyone?
Fighting each other at all when the whole world is in dire jeopardy from a third party... are they STONED!
Sure you could write something somehow explaining these anomalies - but it is very difficult to see how it wouldn't be amazingly far fetched at best - horribly shoe-horned drivel at worst.
Originally posted by Hycoo About your comment on classes. Personally i find the skill system in ESO even more freeform than Skyrim's. Classes are only a small potion of what you can do with your character. Almost any kind of concept of a character you can think of can be realized in ESO. Want to be a small fat sneaking redguard specializing in fire staffs and fire spells, go for it. Want to be a tall cocky altmer blinking around on the battlefield wearing heavy armor and a giant sword, be my guest. Want to blaze enemies with the power of the sun while shooting your bow, the choice is yours.
Classes... TES has had them from the beginning. They functioned as a guideline, though, not a closed box. The classes presented players with a template that they could follow, or go off on their own once they got more familiar with the game. A player could start up a TES game, choose a class, and then improve every skill in the game. Just a guideline.
TES:O has taken this to the extreme. Can my Dragonknight, later on, become a Templar? Will my Nightblade have access to Sorcerer skills? Where is the real customization? In real TES games, the sky is the limit. In TES:O, the 2nd or 3rd story building is the limit.
TES:O has taken freedom and put blocks and locks where ever they could. None of them are necessary for an MMORPG. It is simply design choice. 1) Choose a race: Locked into a faction. They even locked out a whole race - Imperials. (After all, 10 is not nicely divisible by 3.) 2) Choose a race: Locked into what 4 areas out of 10 you can venture into. Until level 50. And then you are still restricted to who you can adventure with. 3) Choose a class: Locked forever in that class, as far as I can tell.
They have "invented" special abilities to further lock players into their scheme. Races had special abilities, but classes never had them. One cannot simply change their race, so those special abilities made sense. Skyrim helped this with their homogenized perk tress. TES:O has taken this further, locking players into their choices.
In TES games, a player could choose a class and become something completely different. Heck, a player could become masters (skill level 100) in every skill, if they so desired. Not so in TES:O. Sure, there is a little wiggle room within each class, but it pales in comparison to unlimited choices. 3 Variants of Sorcerers, with weapon and armor variations does not give a game many choices for Sorcerers. Compared to WoW? A lot of choices. Compared to TES? A mere pittance. What is the Title of the game again?
Until Skyrim, attributes were a HUGE factor in character development. Wanted a bigger Magica pool? Increase your character's Intelligence. Wanted more health? Increase your character's Strength and Endurance. Wanted to be better in Archery? Increase your character's Agility. These are not present in TES:O (nor Skyrim).
Gone are the mechanics of race and class selection being guidelines.
As an after thought: Will a Templar (Sun based magic) be able to use their powers at night?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Hycoo About your comment on classes. Personally i find the skill system in ESO even more freeform than Skyrim's. Classes are only a small potion of what you can do with your character. Almost any kind of concept of a character you can think of can be realized in ESO. Want to be a small fat sneaking redguard specializing in fire staffs and fire spells, go for it. Want to be a tall cocky altmer blinking around on the battlefield wearing heavy armor and a giant sword, be my guest. Want to blaze enemies with the power of the sun while shooting your bow, the choice is yours.
In TES games, a player could choose a class and become something completely different. Heck, a player could become masters (skill level 100) in every skill, if they so desired.
You are right. in ESO you won't be able to just swap class as you go. You will tho be able to max all the other skill lines except race and class (which are 4 out of ~15 skill lines). For those who like to swap playstyle with their character as they go i can understand they feel limited. The same goes for those whole like to max absolutely all their skills in TES. For me it's not a problem because i like to pick a concept and pick the skills that fits that concept from the start. If i would like to play another type of character i make an alt. Therefor it won't be a problem.
Not so in TES:O. Sure, there is a little wiggle room within each class, but it pales in comparison to unlimited choices. 3 Variants of Sorcerers, with weapon and armor variations does not give a game many choices for Sorcerers. Compared to WoW? A lot of choices. Compared to TES? A mere pittance. What is the Title of the game again?
I think you are underestimating the variations of sorcerers you will see. Tanky, sneaky, healing, crowd controling, damage spells, with bows, etc. You have ~ 60 skills to chose from to put on your 6 slot skillbar. It's about choices. You can't have it all.
Until Skyrim, attributes were a HUGE factor in character development. Wanted a bigger Magica pool? Increase your character's Intelligence. -So increase your mana when you level up. Wanted more health? Increase your character's Strength and Endurance. -Increase your health when lvl up. Wanted to be better in Archery? Increase your character's Agility. -Increase your stamina when lvl up. These are not present in TES:O (nor Skyrim).
Gone are the mechanics of race and class selection being guidelines.
As an after thought: Will a Templar (Sun based magic) be able to use their powers at night?
And the nightblade template will only be able to use his blade at night like in all previous TES games.
Anyone have any links to how detailed the cities are? I'm hoping that hubs where people gather (hopefully) won't be filled with shops and buildings we can't enter, doors we can't use, etc... And while I acknowledge the reasoning of having gathering professions, it would be nice to have at least one crafting profession that you could level up without leaving a city and not go broke.
@Hycoo OK, instead of messing with all the formatting, I'll just touch on a couple of points
- Like you, I play a concept with my characters. That does not make the locking of class abilities any less of a factor. It's about choice, not just for me or you, but everyone.
- There will be variations, yes. But every variation will be a "Sorcerer". Will we see Sorcerers using massive flamestrike spells, aka Dragonknights? I don't think so. Will we see Nightblades summoning Daedra, aka Sorcerers? I doubt it. All the variations are within the classes themselves. There is no "outside the box" here
- Attributes factored into more than just health, magica, or stamina. When you raised the character's Intelligence, not only did it improve the magica pool, but also ALL skills associated with Intelligence, like Security and Alchemy. Health, magica, and stamina were figured stats. Now, they are taking the place of attributes, aka Skyrim.
- "And the nightblade template will only be able to use his blade at night like in all previous TES games." I think you better go read up on Nightblades (from Morrowind as an example). Is it true that Templars will be useless during the night and Nightblades useless during the day? I really don't know. I was just speculating and asking.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Faction lock complainers are those who fall into the entitlement mindset. They often ask why as if that is really a point. They have trained themselves to ask WHY often.
That could be flipped as well you know. Those who are stuck with the mindset that the RVRVR must not be jeapordized at all costs might come across as equally entitled.
Internet rule #14, only you are allowed to use double standards, not them.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
@Hycoo OK, instead of messing with all the formatting, I'll just touch on a couple of points
- There will be variations, yes. But every variation will be a "Sorcerer". Will we see Sorcerers using massive flamestrike spells, aka Dragonknights? I don't think so. Will we see Nightblades summoning Daedra, aka Sorcerers? I doubt it. All the variations are within the classes themselves. There is no "outside the box" here
You are too hung up on the classes man. You could have only abilities from your weapon, armor and mage guild skill line if you want to. Or from werewolf and AvA skill line. Outside the box to me is playing a character that other players don't usually play. You will have plenty of opportunities to do that in ESO.
- "And the nightblade template will only be able to use his blade at night like in all previous TES games." I think you better go read up on Nightblades (from Morrowind as an example). Is it true that Templars will be useless during the night and Nightblades useless during the day? I really don't know. I was just speculating and asking.
Hehe i thought you were being sarcastic. Of course Templars can use their abilities during the night and Nightblades their's during the day.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky @Hycoo OK, instead of messing with all the formatting, I'll just touch on a couple of points - There will be variations, yes. But every variation will be a "Sorcerer". Will we see Sorcerers using massive flamestrike spells, aka Dragonknights? I don't think so. Will we see Nightblades summoning Daedra, aka Sorcerers? I doubt it. All the variations are within the classes themselves. There is no "outside the box" here You are too hung up on the classes man. You could have only abilities from your weapon, armor and mage guild skill line if you want to. Or from werewolf and AvA skill line. Outside the box to me is playing a character that other players don't usually play. You will have plenty of opportunities to do that in ESO.
Yes, I am hung up on classes I see them as another restriction instead of the free-form character development I am used to in TES games.
Originally posted by Hycoo
Originally posted by AlBQuirky - "And the nightblade template will only be able to use his blade at night like in all previous TES games." I think you better go read up on Nightblades (from Morrowind as an example). Is it true that Templars will be useless during the night and Nightblades useless during the day? I really don't know. I was just speculating and asking. Hehe i thought you were being sarcastic. Of course Templars can use their abilities during the night and Nightblades their's during the day.
hehe. Sorry about that Thanks for the clarification, though.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Tangentially you have hit upon the whole problem with Zenimax's approach.
Yes - gameplay trumps plot, or lore etc. It may be a close call in some cases - but generally if a game is better with something which causes friction with the former - it's better off in rather than out.
You have my total agreement here.
However - the only reason these things are in opposition is because Zenimax made them that way. There were ways to create a 3-way factionalised game without player Emperors, or game spoiling (for some people) inconsistency, or logical paradoxes.
Absolutely, there were. I think a lot of people like the idea of being able to compete for the Emporer title, though. When playing games like this, I always thought it was odd that I was a great and powerful hero, that Kings and (in some cases) Gods came to me to solve their problems, yet I was never in a position to play a grander role than that.
I think it's a tough job to marry story and really cool mechanics like that. Not impossible, and I'd like to see if they can explain it without being cheesy or over the top.
Factional Kings and Queens taking the massive risk of concentrating over fighting for a throne while the whole world gets dragged to one version of hell - instead of teaming up to deal with the mutual threat...
Well they all do have the same goal, of capturing the White Gold Tower and banishing the Daedra back to Oblivion, so in essence they're technically working toward a common goal. But you're right, it is a foolishly massive risk to fight everyone NOW in lieu of waiting until the evil is gone.
... then rolling over and playing second fiddle to a player Emperor...!?
Plenty of reasons they might do that, especially if the player is considered the greatest hero the alliance has. It's not an uncommon theme in fantasy for the main characters to garner the friendship and following of their once sovereign kings/queens.
... that just beggars belief...
Let's not even mention restricting the war to one area when in every war ever fought where the option arose - attacking the enemy's home base created military advantage...
Once again I totally agree with you here. The war should carry over into each country.
Yes - mechanics trumps logic - but it only has to because Zenimax couldn't see the ES wood for the DaOC trees at the concept stage.
They should have melded the essence and excellence of both models together holistically - not crowbarred one in on the other to the detriment of one, or both - forcing themselves to have to rely on the mechanics trumping logic card.
Are we talking about the story or are we talking about how well the mechanics of both games are being merged? Because from the rest of this response it's been more of a story complaint, which is (if anything) a failing of the writing staff. If the exact same systems were in place with a more logically sound story, would you still say that ES had been compromised by DAoC?
It was unimaginative and tunnel-visioned - and as has been pointed out, is now way too late to fundamentally fix, even if Zenimax have come up with an imaginative compromise at this late stage.
They could have done with exercising such creative muscle earlier instead of fixating on a particular formula and missing some fairly fundamental mistakes along the way whilst fitting the IP over it.
I respectfully disagree (something I admit I may not have been doing much of in my responses to you in the past, for which I apologize). I think they've done a fine job so far utilizing the IP and combining RvR mechanics. At least nothing has come out that makes me question that they've done any ridiculous injustice to ES simply for the sake of having a 3 faction game.
I'll reserve my final judgement on the story explanation for when the specifics finally come out, but you've made good points regarding discrepancies and common sense.
Comments
This is where a game mechanic trumps logic, and with good cause. What sounds more fun, that you fight for your faction leader to take the throne, or that you fight for yourself to take the throne?
It actually makes more sense than the paradox of klling the big bad guy in the dungeon, only to come back next week to kill him again.
yeah, that's a huge plot hole.
The only way that works is if the guild leader of the winning guild is treated like a general and the NPC faction leader actually takes hold the throne.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sometimes we look to deep into our video games and forget they are really about having fun. What the heck I get hit by a hammer brothers hammer and I shrink? Whats that about? Why no head wound? Wait a eat a flower and I can spit fire? Ok this has to get fixed!!!!
You get the highest points in the battle that took Cyrodiil that taken from a number of different metricts and you get a cool title for how ever long your faction keep keep Cyrodiil. 5 min or 5 days. It follows the light lore that everyone is trying to take Cyrodiil for their own want of power. Its fun... the player gets to gloat and everyone can say who is ________? Or hay thats my bud, or how does he rank so high every time, Im gona look up his spec.
Video games, movie, TV shows are so filled with holes in their story and lore we have fans that do nothing but look for them and post them online. The movies and TV shows and often video games will make light of it as well. Is this worth getting upset about? Is it worth taking another positive thread and make it lets hate on the game again? THERE ARE LOTS OF FANS HERE. We are sick of not having even just one thread we can talk about what we like about the game. Get on topic or goto one of the hate threads.
Its not a plot hole, Kings goto war to win other lands. Lord at home stab them in the back and become King. Generals will take over an army and claim new lands as their own. There are many reasons why someone else gets cowned. Can even be something role players can write in their char story. How they have the throne for 5 min and almost had it all. Its a silly little title that is there for fun and braging rights. Its not a huge hole like a new char shows up in the story we never met before and they were the one who murdered the count. Its a game, not everything has to be deep, sometimes its just about fun.
Ok i know the faction lock and other aspects of how the world and maps work in TESO are a contraversey, but lets set all that aside for this thread please.
Sorry to see your thread ruined by some disrespectful c***s
what i want to hear about is what people think about the rest of the game
the classes
Classes are your starting point when it comes to character customization. How open the role distrubtion to the classes are is still kind of up in the air.
We know that the Dragon Knight has some damage mitigation and taunt abilities, so people would think it's the warrior class, or main tank. But the class also has skills like inferno and fire breath, which sounds more like mage skills. The class is also said to have some buff skills. All in all the class is based more around fire and brimstone than pure warrior skills. You can build him in many different ways, not only as a full frontal fighter.
The Templar's abilities are based around the theme of the sun. The three skill lines are said to focus on healing, ranged damage, and interrupts/knockbacks. How you decide to play him is still up to you, but he is the only class with a skill line dedicated to healing. Still any class can heal with the restoration staff.
The Sorcerer's three skill lines are Dark Magic, Deadric Summoning and Storm Calling. They are said to be focused on crowd control, ...well deadric summons, and dps. An important thing to notice here tho (which can be said for all the classes) is that one skill line doesn't focus entirely on one role, but is rather a collection of skills with the same theme. For instance in Storm Calling (which is said to be a dps skill line) has skills like blink (lets you teleport a short distance) and electric conduct (which adds some damage mitigation while dealing some damage around you). In the Deadric Summoning line you also find bound armor that also adds damage reduction. So potentially sorcerers could be very good tanks.
Not much is known about the Nightblade. We can only speculate it has illision skills, movement and concealment skills, maybe poisons? and so on.
What i think will determine roles is more what armor you decide to use. Heavy armor for tanking, medium armor for weapon skill usage and light armor for class skill usage. Of course you can mix armor types. Also we don't quite know what each weapon style will be good at, except for sword and board for damage reduction and restoration staff for healing.
the crafting
Not much is known, experimental based.
the combat mechanics,
Reticle based combat. Your character placed a bit to the left in the screen. Your left click attack is said to be the main damage dealing factor, while the skills on your skillbar is mostly used for utility. Right click to block. Left click while blocking to interupt. Dodge is in. Sprint is in. Resource management is very much a big deal. You can break out of crowd control by using stamina. This also makes you immune to crowd control for 7 seconds.
Very much a deck building game. 6 skills on your skillbar (1 being an ultimate). You can place any skill you have access to on your skill bar (except some skill lines can't be mixed like lycantrophy and vampirism). Skill lines include racial, class, weapon, armor, AvA, guild and world. You can also have a back up weapon that you can swap to, that at the same time swaps out the skillbar for a second one.
the quest layouts.
Said to be exploration based, but most quests given by NPCs
stuff i missed.
Some tidbits
i know some of this is still behind NDA but lets talk about these aspects of the game that we can guess from vids or have learned from announcements.
I know I'm gonna get flamed big time for this but what the hell.
I'm pretty sad about the whole sorry mess tbh. It looks to me like someone is trying to make a DAoC copy with RvR and a class based MMO but didn't have the right backing until they worked out a deal to get the TES IP name thrown into the pot, because the game I'm seeing is not an Elder Scrolls game.
Obviously there has to be some compromise when moving your SRPG to the MMORPG arena or there would be too many problems with basic things like tuning content to the level of players. That has to be done by areas or it just gets too complicated.
What you don't do is change the core design philosophy of your game. Classes? WTF is that all about? That isn't TES. Region locking? 3 faction RvR? Both of these are something thrown in to force PvP gameplay. As already suggested, choosing a faction should have been left up to the players, regardless of race or region. Let the players make the decisions they always did in TES games. Quit ramming choices down the players throats. It seems to me that we're being jammed into a little box called TESO where we have to conform to the rules and behave, instead of being given a huge big box called "TES - The MMO!" and then told to go play.
Let the players choose where to start, where to go to, who to fight for and which skills they want to use. Kinda like any TES we've seen previously.
This isn't TESO despite it's name, it's an attempt at DAoC 2. They just got the geography wrong. I'd have been happier if they just admitted it and called it something more appropriate, like DAoC2 maybe? Or WAR 2.0...hmm. Then maybe someone could make a proper TES MMO that is designed like the TES series and they could call that TESO. I would love to play an online massively multiplayer version of TES but this ain't it. I won't be playing it because, quite frankly in my completely worthless and humble opinion, it's not worthy of the name and it's an injustice to an IP that has been loved and played by millions worldwide for 19 years. It's insulting is what it is.
That's my opinion anyway. No doubt there will be many who are happy to buy into the game. Up to them I suppose, poor misguided fools that they are.
So, now all the fanatics can come out and flame me, call me a noob, a whiner, or even "entitled", possibly the most idiotic comment I've seen yet on this site. Yes, I'm obviously some entitled brat because I question the design mistakes in an MMO based on an IP I've personally been playing since 1994 when TES Arena first released. Yes, I am that old.
Flame on!
This thread is not about faction locking jeez. Gtfo and find the correct thread if you want to discuss that.
About your comment on classes. Personally i find the skill system in ESO even more freeform than Skyrim's. Classes are only a small potion of what you can do with your character. Almost any kind of concept of a character you can think of can be realized in ESO. Want to be a small fat sneaking redguard specializing in fire staffs and fire spells, go for it. Want to be a tall cocky altmer blinking around on the battlefield wearing heavy armor and a giant sword, be my guest. Want to blaze enemies with the power of the sun while shooting your bow, the choice is yours.
You get all that is any TES game already.
Yeah it's pretty similiar.
That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Everyone should ask why often. Asking why has nothing to do with entitlement. Fear of asking Why makes you a sheep. Why is one of the most important questions you can ask followed closely by how. No advancements come without these two questions.
Asking why an IP that has focused mainly on freedom and choice has gone a more restrictive route has nothing to do with entitlement.
sounds like a throw back to skyrim mains tory char which is cool, cause a fighter type with breath weapons would be awsome.
sadly their have not been clocks in a ES games since dagger fall, which i am sad for but i do understand that on high end grapics freeflowing capes and cloacks and such et up so much proccessing it not even funny.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Keep in mind there is also a guardian class. In truth, other than the "starting class" you should be able to make whatever you want.
Qutie frankly I don't even know why they are bothering with classes in "this way" as opposed to having suggested classes/templates and then allowing players to pick those at the start or just "create as you go".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
From what I gather this game is made up of skill sets. Dual weild have a bunch of skills that can only be found there. 2h sword again its own skill set. So on and so on. I think the classes again have a set of skills all of their own. So I can make a mage and put him in full plate and make a battlemage and someone else can do the same thing with a DK but in the end it would be a different flavor and have access to different skills.
Tangentially you have hit upon the whole problem with Zenimax's approach.
Yes - gameplay trumps plot, or lore etc. It may be a close call in some cases - but generally if a game is better with something which causes friction with the former - it's better off in rather than out.
However - the only reason these things are in opposition is because Zenimax made them that way. There were ways to create a 3-way factionalised game without player Emperors, or game spoiling (for some people) inconsistency, or logical paradoxes.
Factional Kings and Queens taking the massive risk of concentrating over fighting for a throne while the whole world gets dragged to one version of hell - instead of teaming up to deal with the mutual threat...
... then rolling over and playing second fiddle to a player Emperor...!?
... that just beggars belief...
Let's not even mention restricting the war to one area when in every war ever fought where the option arose - attacking the enemy's home base created military advantage...
Yes - mechanics trumps logic - but it only has to because Zenimax couldn't see the ES wood for the DaOC trees at the concept stage.
They should have melded the essence and excellence of both models together holistically - not crowbarred one in on the other to the detriment of one, or both - forcing themselves to have to rely on the mechanics trumping logic card.
It was unimaginative and tunnel-visioned - and as has been pointed out, is now way too late to fundamentally fix, even if Zenimax have come up with an imaginative compromise at this late stage.
They could have done with exercising such creative muscle earlier instead of fixating on a particular formula and missing some fairly fundamental mistakes along the way whilst fitting the IP over it.
This
My previous post on this page deals with the issues I am addressing - and these have been explained by Zenimax already;
Player Emperors somehow flowing logically out of NPC Faction Leaders efforts to win. Are they all saintly altruists or something?
Area-restricted 'all-out' war. Did they make a 'gentleman's agreement' without telling anyone?
Fighting each other at all when the whole world is in dire jeopardy from a third party... are they STONED!
Sure you could write something somehow explaining these anomalies - but it is very difficult to see how it wouldn't be amazingly far fetched at best - horribly shoe-horned drivel at worst.
TES has had them from the beginning. They functioned as a guideline, though, not a closed box. The classes presented players with a template that they could follow, or go off on their own once they got more familiar with the game. A player could start up a TES game, choose a class, and then improve every skill in the game. Just a guideline.
TES:O has taken this to the extreme. Can my Dragonknight, later on, become a Templar? Will my Nightblade have access to Sorcerer skills? Where is the real customization? In real TES games, the sky is the limit. In TES:O, the 2nd or 3rd story building is the limit.
TES:O has taken freedom and put blocks and locks where ever they could. None of them are necessary for an MMORPG. It is simply design choice.
1) Choose a race: Locked into a faction. They even locked out a whole race - Imperials. (After all, 10 is not nicely divisible by 3.)
2) Choose a race: Locked into what 4 areas out of 10 you can venture into. Until level 50. And then you are still restricted to who you can adventure with.
3) Choose a class: Locked forever in that class, as far as I can tell.
They have "invented" special abilities to further lock players into their scheme. Races had special abilities, but classes never had them. One cannot simply change their race, so those special abilities made sense. Skyrim helped this with their homogenized perk tress. TES:O has taken this further, locking players into their choices.
In TES games, a player could choose a class and become something completely different. Heck, a player could become masters (skill level 100) in every skill, if they so desired. Not so in TES:O. Sure, there is a little wiggle room within each class, but it pales in comparison to unlimited choices. 3 Variants of Sorcerers, with weapon and armor variations does not give a game many choices for Sorcerers. Compared to WoW? A lot of choices. Compared to TES? A mere pittance. What is the Title of the game again?
Until Skyrim, attributes were a HUGE factor in character development.
Wanted a bigger Magica pool? Increase your character's Intelligence.
Wanted more health? Increase your character's Strength and Endurance.
Wanted to be better in Archery? Increase your character's Agility.
These are not present in TES:O (nor Skyrim).
Gone are the mechanics of race and class selection being guidelines.
As an after thought:
Will a Templar (Sun based magic) be able to use their powers at night?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Good. Next...
-
This video had a lot of nice info on crafting/dungeons/combat.
Anyone have any links to how detailed the cities are? I'm hoping that hubs where people gather (hopefully) won't be filled with shops and buildings we can't enter, doors we can't use, etc... And while I acknowledge the reasoning of having gathering professions, it would be nice to have at least one crafting profession that you could level up without leaving a city and not go broke.
@Hycoo
OK, instead of messing with all the formatting, I'll just touch on a couple of points
- Like you, I play a concept with my characters. That does not make the locking of class abilities any less of a factor. It's about choice, not just for me or you, but everyone.
- There will be variations, yes. But every variation will be a "Sorcerer". Will we see Sorcerers using massive flamestrike spells, aka Dragonknights? I don't think so. Will we see Nightblades summoning Daedra, aka Sorcerers? I doubt it. All the variations are within the classes themselves. There is no "outside the box" here
- Attributes factored into more than just health, magica, or stamina. When you raised the character's Intelligence, not only did it improve the magica pool, but also ALL skills associated with Intelligence, like Security and Alchemy. Health, magica, and stamina were figured stats. Now, they are taking the place of attributes, aka Skyrim.
- "And the nightblade template will only be able to use his blade at night like in all previous TES games."
I think you better go read up on Nightblades (from Morrowind as an example). Is it true that Templars will be useless during the night and Nightblades useless during the day? I really don't know. I was just speculating and asking.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Internet rule #14, only you are allowed to use double standards, not them.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You have my total agreement here.
Absolutely, there were. I think a lot of people like the idea of being able to compete for the Emporer title, though. When playing games like this, I always thought it was odd that I was a great and powerful hero, that Kings and (in some cases) Gods came to me to solve their problems, yet I was never in a position to play a grander role than that.
I think it's a tough job to marry story and really cool mechanics like that. Not impossible, and I'd like to see if they can explain it without being cheesy or over the top.
Well they all do have the same goal, of capturing the White Gold Tower and banishing the Daedra back to Oblivion, so in essence they're technically working toward a common goal. But you're right, it is a foolishly massive risk to fight everyone NOW in lieu of waiting until the evil is gone.
Plenty of reasons they might do that, especially if the player is considered the greatest hero the alliance has. It's not an uncommon theme in fantasy for the main characters to garner the friendship and following of their once sovereign kings/queens.
Once again I totally agree with you here. The war should carry over into each country.
Are we talking about the story or are we talking about how well the mechanics of both games are being merged? Because from the rest of this response it's been more of a story complaint, which is (if anything) a failing of the writing staff. If the exact same systems were in place with a more logically sound story, would you still say that ES had been compromised by DAoC?
I respectfully disagree (something I admit I may not have been doing much of in my responses to you in the past, for which I apologize). I think they've done a fine job so far utilizing the IP and combining RvR mechanics. At least nothing has come out that makes me question that they've done any ridiculous injustice to ES simply for the sake of having a 3 faction game.
I'll reserve my final judgement on the story explanation for when the specifics finally come out, but you've made good points regarding discrepancies and common sense.