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Why is 'instanced' a modern development?
yangdude
Member UncommonPosts: 72
I've played PWI (yes that old outdated etc game) for some time now and assumed that the open world style was the norm. Then having jumped on the GW2 bandwagon I was very confused by the gameplay style.
So this is 'instanced' where you have a small area to quest in, then (at least back when it started) you wait in line to get into the next area? I must admit I was baffled. I dont have a lot of MMO experience and suddenly this super new game seems like a whole bunch of small games linked together by portals.
How is it that this is even accepted by the gaming community. Like seriously, am I the only one that thinks the 'instanced' style of GW2 really sucks - I mean REALLY. I was extremely disappointed to say the least and it actually made me feel claustrophobic playing GW2.
(as a sideline I didnt play GW2 for long because my computer wont play it for pvp but thats my problem)
I guess I'm interested to hear others opinions on 'instancing'. Does anyone out there actually like it - and if so why? Is instancing a result of developers trying to cramb so much into each small area that it cant be done in an open world format?
Comments
I hate it. It is basically a tool which takes away the Massively from MMORPG and it is a cheap way for developers not to design a large world. Why should they, when they can just create identical instances of the same zone?
I mean part of being part of a persistant world is to compete for resources. Take that away and you just have a multiplayer game which happens to be on an online server.
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Hate it myself also.
Much preferred EQ in it's launch and early expansion state where everything , including major dungeons , were open world.
Zero instancing.
I think it's a great feature in any mmo. While I do like to see people running around the world with me, the most imersion breaking aspect of any mmo is waiting in line to kill the big bad guy. How is he the bad guy when he's only alive for 5-10 seconds at a time ? what could he do in that time that makes him so bad ?
In an instanced zone I can switch channels and fight him the way he should be...spanwed and walking around being the bad guy.
Make leveling meaningfull and actually lasting quite abit of time instead of the 1month level cap rush and all your zones will automaticly be filled by people leveling at slower paces and alts. No need for instanceing
Instancing is modern thing because imagine this. Dungeons are not instanced. Bosses/mobs in a dungeon are available for first come first serve basis. Farming guilds will dominate these dungeons 24/7.
Who wants to play a game like that?
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Anarchy Online was just like that,atleast some of those dungeons were,public instances.
PvP could happen also and all kind of nice things that cannot happen in private caves,if someone is farming then bring friends or twinks or ask nicely if you could get some goodies,even better no teams needed either and can do that even when not even planning to because that nice farmer decided to help you,high level players cannot enter,close to perfection.
Let's internet
an organized guild thats farming a public dungeon will easily trump some random joe blow and a couple of his buddies.
you're basically saying, the only defense a player has is to either already have a cap lvl character and outfit a lower level character (if it would be true that higher lvls cant enter the public dungeon) with the best gear possible for his level to stand a chance to take the dungeon spot(also assuming pvp is available in the area which is meant for pve). OR to bring more numbers and just turn into a gankfest for both sides.
again i ask, who wants to play a game like that? apparently your answer is pvp'ers.
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No theres PvP twinks and PvE twinks in this game,and PvE twinks performs a lot better at ToTW(instance) than some aimed shot agent or PvP trader ,which are pretty popular tl3 PvP classes.
people love to do PvE characters and i can tell you theres (was) plenty.
Let's internet
Me.
PVE competition in a dungeon made EQ even more interesting.
what you dont understand is the players of today are vastly different from th eplayers back in EQ. There weren't nearly as many griefers today as there were back then. That kind of system would be abused and ultimately only used by very few because they wouldn't be able to combat the farming guilds.
to that you may say bring your own, and then you're turning what should be a pve experience into a pvp experience, but the point would be moot because those farming guilds would be ready, prepared to fend off whatever force you could bring. You may even wipe them a time or two, but be assured you would not get any boss kills cause they would wipe you right back.
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In an ideal world instancing within MMORPG's games wouldn't exist, in most cases the reason for instancing is technical limitations from a design or/and development perspective, these could be a limitation of the:
From a development aspect, designing a game that uses instances and zones provides developers more control over individual aspects localised to a zone, and allows them to breach some technical limitations, this means that designing a single zone can be passed to a small team with minimal impact to other zones and allows for focused development, additionally from a development stand point it's just flat easier .
It doesn't have to be this way though, most of the things mentioned by other posters are Design issues (relevent to a game). It has nothing to do with the "Genre", it has nothing to do with combating "Empty Zones".
Me personally I prefer an open world game and the freedom it provides for developers and gamers.
In game it really doesnt work like that,first.
a)theres no lfg xserver whatever dirt finders
b)a
if theres some scumbag that people know and if he is flagged,he is the first who meets his maker.
and if theres real scumbag team ,full of hate then change instance,there is limit for players in instances also,i think i was in zone 7 at ToTW once,cant remember ,if theres also full of hate then change to 3 4 5 6 2.
Let's internet
Also, instancing has been around for over a decade now.
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Instanced is a not so modern development and it is great.
No more over-crowding. No more camping. Better tuned scripted dungeons.
Won't play a PvE MMO without it.
Instances prevent a few things
1. No camp spots with "lists" because of over crowding
2. No kill stealing
3. No general griefing (there will always be dicks)
Which in turn saves money on customer service reps monitoring those types of behaviors
also yet another thread some people don't know the difference between zones and instances... and yes zones can be instanced but in a game like gw2 they are not.. well ok they sort of are, at least not in the traditional sense.. overflows is a form of instancing... look at MMOs with zone #s those are truely instanced MMOs and they have been around forever.. eq2 had them(eq1 might of.. honestly don't remember been to long)
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Technically, all games are instanced. Even if everyone plays on the same server and the game only has one zone - that's an instance.
That said, there's a threshhold at which a game feels open vs. feels instanced. EQ felt super open. EQ2 has very, very large zones. WoW has decently large zones. SWG was wide open on each planet.
I think the difference is the amount of ground covered vs. number of loading screens. If I'm strictly in travel mode and I run for 10 or 15 minutes for each loading screen, that's fine. If I run for 10 or 15 minutes and have to load 5 different zones, well, that just feels really boxy and separated.
I think you have this backwards. Thinking a big bad buy is always up walking around and waiting for you is the immersion breaking aspect. You should have to compete with others. That's the immersion.
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Not quite sure I get your point? Terminology probably needs refining.
When you refer to instancing, are you talking about:
- Multiple instances of open world zones or shared dungeons.
- Zones.
- Group instances for dungeons .
- Solo instances for stories.
All of them serve a purpose.
- Multiple instances of open world areas is to protect the quality of gameplay for players, reducing lag.
- Zonelines and load screens are often needed due to the amount of data required to load, also going back to quality of gameplay. This becomes even more necessary with higher quality games. Look at Vanguard, fully open world, but you get horrible tearing at chunk lines. Sometimes its just better to be zoned in and have higher resolution, more detailed graphics and voiced NPCs.
- Group instances are useful for preventing the bad side of player interactions, some prefer to be able to grief or compete, but many hate this. Group instances allow the designers to set a challenge for a known number of players, without interferance from the outside world.
- Solo instances let game developers prevent the player with choices that will not impact on the outside world or other players enjoyment of their own personal story.
There is a point to all of them, if you don't like it thats fine, but its not lazy development or anything like that, they are there for a reason. I guess you were referring to having dungeons and zones, if you didnt have zones then the quality of the games would have to be significantly reduced to allow for that. Which is something that I am not happy to give up just for having a zoneless world.
He wasn't saying instancing is new. He was saying, why does modern development seem to lean towards this ideology, which should be pretty much dated at this point. Instancing should be a thing of the past.
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OP just look for games that have an open world like PWI. Try Vanguard for instance, there are a few titles out there. There are also many more coming that are currently in development
like which? most upcomming games i have seen use instancing and zones in some way or another.. The repopulation is the only one I can think of.. although it will have instanced housing.. but will have non-instanced housing as well
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Pathfinder Online
Wildstar I think
Right of the top of my head. Others like Embers of Caerus, Camelot Unchained are not very close but intended to be open world.
There may be other titles I'm not thinking of but it's nice to see.