and the word for the day is ....."Shill"

Hairysun

I'll just post some of my favorite definitions from various sources around the interwebs....

 

- A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing he has a close relationship with the person or organization.

 

- Shill, a person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums.

 

- To act as a spokesperson or promoter.

 

- A decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others

 

- One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

 

- a confidence trickster's assistant, esp a person who poses as an ordinary customer, gambler, etc., in order to entice others to participate.

 

I do realize that quoting from wikipedia and urban dictionary are generally considered bad form.  They just caught the essence of the word so well in their description.   

 

 

Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

 

If not, why not? (KickStarter is big bucks, games are big business, wouldn't you?) 

 

If so, then to what extent?  (Paid employees, friends and family, in-game bonuses .... etc)

 

 

~Hairysun

 

Jacxolope

Frankly every company probably uses shills/viral marketers in some capacity.

I know for certain there are services out there to write reviews on metcritic/amazon.com for authors/publishers/whoever to raise their score and recently there was an article (cracked.com?) that delved into the issue.

-Polictical parties and even nations are filled with "shills"- The CIA has a program used to "alter pubic opinion using social media".

So...Yes. They probably do. Truthfully , if I had a stake in a game or book or political party- I would as well.

Aeodo

I don't think they even have a PR guy or a Marketing guy, so i doubt it.

Raagnarz

At the moment I don't think they have the staff to corporate shill for the sake of getting the KS going. The very fact that Mark is as active as he is, combined with the fact that he openly says things people don't like, I think shows that they don't worry about shills. Their die hard fans and supporters do a good enough job of promoting the company and project without a need for their very small team to do so. Mark and CSE have been pretty fucking transparent throughout this entire venture. I applaud them for that and happily admit I "shill" for them because I support their vision. I think most of the backers are in the same boat I am.

Vynxe_Vainglory

Hey did you hear about that guy Vynxe Vainglory?  

What a crazy bastard!  But his youtube channel is dope!!!

Whaaaaaat!!

 

Raunu

Originally posted by Raagnarz
At the moment I don't think they have the staff to corporate shill for the sake of getting the KS going. The very fact that Mark is as active as he is, combined with the fact that he openly says things people don't like, I think shows that they don't worry about shills. Their die hard fans and supporters do a good enough job of promoting the company and project without a need for their very small team to do so. Mark and CSE have been pretty fucking transparent throughout this entire venture. I applaud them for that and happily admit I "shill" for them because I support their vision. I think most of the backers are in the same boat I am.

I completely agree with you. Seeing as they are just starting development and havn't funded on KS, I doubt there are any shills involved at this point.

 

Also, given the people just chomping at the bit to play this game, I doubt they'll ever really need to pay for one. They way they are keeping everybody updated, with development is really helping keeping people interested. I know I keep heading back to their KS page to see if anymore updates have been added. Also, I like to check how much money they've made towards their goal. :-D

Kyleran

Originally posted by Hairysun

I'll just post some of my favorite definitions from various sources around the interwebs....

 - A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing he has a close relationship with the person or organization.

 - Shill, a person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums.

 - To act as a spokesperson or promoter.

 - A decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others

 - One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

 - a confidence trickster's assistant, esp a person who poses as an ordinary customer, gambler, etc., in order to entice others to participate.

 I do realize that quoting from wikipedia and urban dictionary are generally considered bad form.  They just caught the essence of the word so well in their description.   

 Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

 If not, why not? (KickStarter is big bucks, games are big business, wouldn't you?) 

 If so, then to what extent?  (Paid employees, friends and family, in-game bonuses .... etc)

 ~Hairysun

Actually, I think your use of the urban dictionary is quite appropriate, because I believe that largely shills as you described them are more "urban legend" than actual reality.

So no, I don't think Mark has hired any shills to promote his title or this kickstarter, by and large almost all the people you see here are promotiing it because they are excited to do so.

 

sketocafe

I don't know if CSE is actively doing this, but it's sure being done. You can't go for a stroll around the internet to unrelated topics without someone trying to link any subject to how great CU will be. You can't go to any gaming news story about CU on any site without 5 brand new posters popping up to tell you how happy they are that they backed the kickstarter at $110. You can't go to any forum without people who have only ever posted on this one topic popping up and trying to sell you on it. It's turned me off just like it would if any one individual was trying as hard to sell me on something. 

Jacxolope

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Hairysun

I'll just post some of my favorite definitions from various sources around the interwebs....

 - A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing he has a close relationship with the person or organization.

 - Shill, a person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums.

 - To act as a spokesperson or promoter.

 - A decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others

 - One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

 - a confidence trickster's assistant, esp a person who poses as an ordinary customer, gambler, etc., in order to entice others to participate.

 I do realize that quoting from wikipedia and urban dictionary are generally considered bad form.  They just caught the essence of the word so well in their description.   

 Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

 If not, why not? (KickStarter is big bucks, games are big business, wouldn't you?) 

 If so, then to what extent?  (Paid employees, friends and family, in-game bonuses .... etc)

 ~Hairysun

Actually, I think your use of the urban dictionary is quite appropriate, because I believe that largely shills as you described them are more "urban legend" than actual reality.

So no, I don't think Mark has hired any shills to promote his title or this kickstarter, by and large almost all the people you see here are promotiing it because they are excited to do so.

 

really? You dont think viral marketing and "shills" exist?

I assure you they do- Not to say this game uses them (I know nothing about this game) but classes are even taught to edit wikipedia to promote political agendas and they have been broadcast on the news (granted they are spun in a positive light- As in 'getting the truth acriss")

Seriveses exist to write fake revviews and gain facebook "likes" for a product- Some comapnies have actual 24/7 Viral marketing department s (Viral marketing is essentially being a "shill" as you engadge in Forums and never reveal that you work for sdaid company)

A Shill was recently outed on a certain Forum by tracing the IP back to the source.

-Its no urban legend and honestly its a great marketing strategy. Do a bit of searching on google as there are a plethora of articles about this practice.

 

freston

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Hairysun

I'll just post some of my favorite definitions from various sources around the interwebs....

 - A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing he has a close relationship with the person or organization.

 - Shill, a person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums.

 - To act as a spokesperson or promoter.

 - A decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others

 - One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

 - a confidence trickster's assistant, esp a person who poses as an ordinary customer, gambler, etc., in order to entice others to participate.

 I do realize that quoting from wikipedia and urban dictionary are generally considered bad form.  They just caught the essence of the word so well in their description.   

 Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

 If not, why not? (KickStarter is big bucks, games are big business, wouldn't you?) 

 If so, then to what extent?  (Paid employees, friends and family, in-game bonuses .... etc)

 ~Hairysun

Actually, I think your use of the urban dictionary is quite appropriate, because I believe that largely shills as you described them are more "urban legend" than actual reality.

So no, I don't think Mark has hired any shills to promote his title or this kickstarter, by and large almost all the people you see here are promotiing it because they are excited to do so.

 

Shills are by no means an urban legend. We sometimes take them for granted, thats true, but in the internet era they have become as commonplace as the man who phones a stranger to sell him something (that one  was also unthinkable 40 years ago) The recently deceased hugo chavez is credited to have a staff of 200 persons participating in social media of all kinds , from twitter to newspaper forums.However, I agree that perhaps the whole phenomenom is a bit overrated in the mmo genre. The golden rule is that shills cost money. If you dont have money, you probably dont have shills as well.

Icewhite

Originally posted by Hairysun

Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

I think it's rude to speculate (the mods around here used to issue warnings for doing so).

But does the casual obsever see typical fanboiism, or paranoid conspiracy fantasies?

Jacxolope

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Hairysun

Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

I think it's rude to speculate (the mods around here used to issue warnings for doing so).

But does the casual obsever see typical fanboiism, or paranoid conspiracy fantasies?

I think its generally fanboyism- Especially with Kickstart and folks backing games before they are out (they have a vested interest)

-But there ARE shills. Generally I take all product reviews with a grain of salt as I know there are services out there to write fake reviews (like I said, I read a recent article and the company was making Millions of dollars a year writing fake amazon and 'good read" reviews)-

Being skepticle is often confused as paranoia and conspiracies can and do exist. Those who label others "conspiracy theorit's" often believe everything they are told- I think being skeptical and aware is healthy.

EDIT: Those who bought the "Watergate" incident were at first falesly labeled "conspiracy theorists" and Looney because we all know only low level people (never Politicians and Rich floks like the Hunt family) conspire.

stevebombsquad

They haven't been funded so probably not, but they might have alt accounts and are doing it themselves. As far as shills being urban myths, that is so not true. It is quite obvious that companies like EA and ArenaNet use shills. One only has to look at the SWTOR hype and even moreso the GW2 hype to realize that.

PigEye

What's worse, getting paid in one form or another to hype up a product or idea, or foolishly parroting things around for free?

 

Whole lot of unwitting parrots flying about these days.

Dihoru

By the sheer amount of hype CU is getting for a game we haven't even seen gameplay footage of I have to say it is a bit... strange... Designs, ideas, etc are all well and good but why are there 4-5 CU threads up at any one time on the front page 3/4s of the day? While hired shills might cost money I think MJ is doing his best to get people rilled up to becoming defacto shills... christ I will bet you 20 $ that if someone posts "Should CU be F2P" 10-20 people will jump on him/her calling that person ignorant, or a F2P fanatic, etc which on a forum smells awfully like shilling for a game.

Jayaris

Not sure what the big deal is.

Yakamomoto

Originally posted by Hairysun

 

 

Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

If so, then to what extent?  (Paid employees, friends and family, in-game bonuses .... etc)

 

1. Yes

2. all of the above

 

Way too much obvious astroturfing. A game with nothing to show, from a non-established game company can'tgenerate that much attention without external help.

Also see for reference : guerilla marketing. Also popular with asian distributor titles

Lysi

Someone suggested to Mark Jacobs that he should do some paid advertising and he shut that down immediately.

Obviously a lot of people want to see the game funded because it sounds like such a great concept.  To PvE players, it may sound like a nightmare but I'd say those that aren't a big fan of the concept, wait a couple years.  And the fact that there isn't an official forum yet, led a lot of people here.  Once the forums are up, it'll be much quieter here.

ET3D

Hairysun is obviously a shill, trying to alert more people to the existence of this Kickstarter by starting a controvertial discussion about it.

Anyway, while shills exist, I think that most of the accusations I see of people being shills come from people who are unable to understand that it's possible for others to like something that they don't like themselves.

will75

The only people who don't think this exists and are offended by the though of it... I won't call you that diragtory fan name, but open your eyes..

Yakamomoto

Originally posted by Dihoru
By the sheer amount of hype CU is getting for a game we haven't even seen gameplay footage of I have to say it is a bit... strange... Designs, ideas, etc are all well and good but why are there 4-5 CU threads up at any one time on the front page 3/4s of the day? While hired shills might cost money I think MJ is doing his best to get people rilled up to becoming defacto shills... christ I will bet you 20 $ that if someone posts "Should CU be F2P" 10-20 people will jump on him/her calling that person ignorant, or a F2P fanatic, etc which on a forum smells awfully like shilling for a game.

and the daily dose of Gw2 threads suspiciously died out when the CU campaign started.

What a coincidence.

Jayaris

Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Originally posted by Dihoru
By the sheer amount of hype CU is getting for a game we haven't even seen gameplay footage of I have to say it is a bit... strange... Designs, ideas, etc are all well and good but why are there 4-5 CU threads up at any one time on the front page 3/4s of the day? While hired shills might cost money I think MJ is doing his best to get people rilled up to becoming defacto shills... christ I will bet you 20 $ that if someone posts "Should CU be F2P" 10-20 people will jump on him/her calling that person ignorant, or a F2P fanatic, etc which on a forum smells awfully like shilling for a game.

and the daily dose of Gw2 threads suspiciously died out when the CU campaign started.

What a coincidence.

Not a coincidence at all, the reason the GW2 threads faded out is because all of you angry, disparate little haters came to this forum instead.

Icewhite

Originally posted by Jacxolope

EDIT: Those who bought the "Watergate" incident were at first falesly labeled "conspiracy theorists" and Looney because we all know only low level people (never Politicians and Rich floks like the Hunt family) conspire.

Looney?

Conspiracy theories aren't necessarily rational, you are correct. Nor necessarily irrational.

But on a forum, electronic anonymous medium, the only possible ways to collect data (not hunch, not speculation, not paranoia, not anecdote) involve IP tracking and such, not typically available to individual users.

So it's a leveled accusation without any possible support.

Begging the question, loaded question, presupposition: "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Regardless of how the respondent answers, he can't possibly defend himself.

Speculation is thus completely valueless.

Jacxolope

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Jacxolope

EDIT: Those who bought the "Watergate" incident were at first falesly labeled "conspiracy theorists" and Looney because we all know only low level people (never Politicians and Rich floks like the Hunt family) conspire.

Looney?

Conspiracy theories aren't necessarily rational, you are correct. Nor necessarily irrational.

But on a forum, electronic anonymous medium, the only possible ways to collect data (not hunch, not speculation, not paranoia, not anecdote) involve IP tracking and such, not typically available to individual users.

So it's a leveled accusation without any possible support.

Begging the question, loaded question, presupposition: "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Regardless of how the respondent answers, he can't possibly defend himself.

Speculation is thus completely valueless.

No. I think you and I are in total agreement. I think I misunderstood your original post (multi-tasking at the moment)

mklinic

Over the course of a couple months the concept of the game has been 'unveiled' to its target audience and the concept has moved to a month long Kickstarter. The Kickstarter is constantly releasing updates and providing more information/demo. Additionally, Mark and Andrew have posted in the forums answering people's questions and keeping enthusiasm building.

If nothing else, this period is when we would expect to see the most 'blind' support. Why would they bother paying shills when they have over 7000 backers of their Kickstarter who seem more then happy to spread the word.

As for viral marketing, this came up in another thread and I think CSE hasn't really hidden any information on that front: http://camelotunchained.com/en/curious/.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

 

Edit: listing of services provided for CU by CF: http://www.cf-publishing.com/international/

Livnthedream

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Hairysun

I'll just post some of my favorite definitions from various sources around the interwebs....

 - A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing he has a close relationship with the person or organization.

 - Shill, a person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums.

 - To act as a spokesperson or promoter.

 - A decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others

 - One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

 - a confidence trickster's assistant, esp a person who poses as an ordinary customer, gambler, etc., in order to entice others to participate.

 I do realize that quoting from wikipedia and urban dictionary are generally considered bad form.  They just caught the essence of the word so well in their description.   

 Do you think The developers of Camelot Unchained use forum shills? 

 If not, why not? (KickStarter is big bucks, games are big business, wouldn't you?) 

 If so, then to what extent?  (Paid employees, friends and family, in-game bonuses .... etc)

 ~Hairysun

Actually, I think your use of the urban dictionary is quite appropriate, because I believe that largely shills as you described them are more "urban legend" than actual reality.

So no, I don't think Mark has hired any shills to promote his title or this kickstarter, by and large almost all the people you see here are promotiing it because they are excited to do so.

 

You do not believe they exist when they have been well documented? Take this for example: http://blogs.wsj.com/wallet/2009/07/09/delonghis-strange-brew-tracking-down-fake-amazon-raves/