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10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too
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Agreed. People can't join in on the RvR until level 10 anyways, which isn't that much play time total. Think I read something like 15 hours played which is probably underestimating the players a bit on leveling speed. Still think it would have been a lot better having the world open and leave it up to the player to join one faction later through a series of quests or some kind of initiation. Gives the player a bit invested in that particular faction which would make you think they'd feel a bit more a part of it and into it more. Just seems there are way too many restrictions on the game to be able to mold it into the RvR they want it and still appeal to the ES crowd that's looking to enjoy an ES experience with a group.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger
I don't deny anything. It's not me trying to polarize this forum into DAoC fans vs. TES fans as if the two were mutually exclusive. But I do see a lot of nonsesne about how "most TES fans hate this" so I understand where that comes from: a desire to claim to be speaking for the "real TES fans."
As to "staunch defenders" (of ESO as it is, I assume that's what you mean)... pointing out the logical fallacies, incorrect data presented as fact and holes in the alternate development ideas some here seem to like is what I do. I guess that would qualify me as "staunch defender" in the eyes of "staunch attackers."
And yes, my mistake about AC I read it and somehow go AO, which was also released that year, into my head. AC is what I left to go to DAoC. AC in fact was my first. By 2001 it was in decline big time and didn't have even half of the DAoC population. So your info about Asheron's Call being number 2 was also wrong.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
judging by the info we have, you don't pick campaigns, they are assigned to you.
you can pick the faction that has overall the most numbers but once you get assigned to a campaign, it may not be the winning faction in that campaign.
you can switch but that is assuming you can then pick the new campaign you would like to join, which i doubt.
not only that but campaigns end, not sure how that works exactly but i would assume they get balanced once the new campaigns begin.
yes, the downside to that is there is no rivalries or faction pride but it does make it more balanced in theory.
hopefully they at least add a ranking system of some sort and once certain top end guilds assert their dominance, they get paired with other top end guilds from the other factions, which could build some decent rivalries.
As an old fan of DAoC and someone who has played Elder Scrolls since writing batch files to maximise meory for Arena in DOS,I ahve to agree with Iselin.These things are nto mutually exclusive and I don't see why we can't have ES PvE mixed with DAoC PvP to make a great game.I don't think developing one necessarily detracts fromt he other as it is normal to have two different teams working on them.
However whether TESO actually manages to pull off good PvE or PvP is yet to be seen and won't be till we can get our hands on it for personal experience.
I might have gotten the AC numbers wrong but even Nan supports my claim about EQ's numbers. I remember clearly when they claimed to hit the 500k mark.
Regardless, none of that matters when you look at my other points. The question remains, where is the evidence that RvR is a recipe for success. We've seen DAoC's numbers (and I don't care who had broadband, I played of 56k) and we can't attribute GW2's success to WvW alone. We don't even know what GW2's current active numbers are.
My question is still a valid one. Was this the best design they could choose?
Anyway, we seem to be fixating on the RvR yet again, which seems to suit most of the people who are defending the game. I suppose it conveniently deflects attention from other areas of the game which are "un-ES-like".
And while I agree with your sentiments for the good old days, well unfortunately those are over. It just seems that it's all about the bottom line today.
Here's an interesting fact. Watching an interview with Brad and Smed they initially thought that EQ would net them around 17-20 thousand customers. And they went ahead and made EQ anyway. If only we saw that kind of dedication to making a good game today.
SUP
My opinion of campaigns and the megaserver is that they spent way too much time thinking about what happens when servers loose population and overthought the problem.
The old-fashioned server system would work much better here since you'd also be PvEing with the same people you PvP with. You'd get to know your faction mates much better.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
SUP
People are fixating on the rvr, because its what the moaners are bringing up as the blame for all thing "un tes like" in the game.
The linear wow style questing and the way you can't just follow the compass and go do something that takes your fancy as pointed out by the RPS and eurogamer previews sets my "not like tes" alarm bells ringing more than the rvr. And you can't blame that on "cloning daoc", that's copying wow pure and simple.
Yep its why daoc is a better game than EQ.
Same pve (as early EQ, before they added instanced crap).
But its also got a great pvp game too.
But they dont just have the quest hub style questing. I wish people would start looking past RvR PvP as its just one part of the game. You can pick a direction and your compass will point out things happening around the area you are in. There is events and quest out in the middle of no where. Even outside of the compass pointing to things you have public quest system and 1-2 man open world dungeons along with caves and ruins. Thats before you get to joining the mages guild and you are rewarded for exploring.
There's no sense of arguing about the influence of broadband saturation on the online game market--especially online games that have real-time components. There is a direct relationship. This is a fact not an opinion.
There's no sense of using 2001 numbers to discuss 2013. There wasn't a single MMO in the top 10 PC games sold in 2001--it was a niche market. Expecting 20K customers is not a mark of dedication, just the economic reality at the time.
No one here is saying that RvR has the most MMORPG appeal... that would be the PvE-based WOW that has the most appeal obviously. If mass appeal was the only criteria, this would be another WOW-formula clone. As a matter of fact, the fact they decided to go with a less popular system, shows more, not less integrity and dedication.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
@ Mo...
I think we're only fooling ourselves that in any game where mobs and players have levels, it's truly possible to go off in any direction of the compass.
Whether breadcrumb quests send us there or we get there through the trial and error of dying / surviving, level-based MMOs--which is pretty well all of them--lead you to appropriate areas for your level one way or another.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That's an optimistic estimation of time.
A simple point of reference is to point at Planetside 2. It's obviously a condition emphasized byt the fact that game is nothing but PvP, but it's faction balance issues with stacking the competition came almost immediately. I'd say suprisingly it's gotten more balanced over time, but that has somewhat to do with SOE toying with the servers.
GW2 had rather immediate faction bsalance issues as well, it was a large secondary aspect as to why people wanted server transfers (the primary one being the awkward server structure for the game).
The balance of factions in PvP is going to become an issue as soone as people start stepping onto the field for the first time and watching for a few days to see how each faction is faring.
Within the first week you will have rerolls stacking sides.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
And many of us feel like it fits well.
And some feel like only a sandbox would fit.
And some feel like only ffa PvP would fit.
And some feel only a co-op PvE game would fit.
And each side has its own arguments
And each side brings up RvR
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Not if they don't fit or make sense, which debunks your statement just as quickly.
Or maybe both of our statements aren't actual statements at all but opinions and as such aren't subject to debunking..... opinions being what they are. You know, being all,,, completely subjective and all that.
Planetside 2 doesn't have serious faction imbalance issues. Probably because they went hard on faction lock unlike gw2, tsw, swtor etc..
You are mistaken.
Except they didnt go for a less popular formula. Everything except the PvP areas is your standard, WoW like, ThemePark quest-hub type of gameplay.
So what they "cleverly" did is to combine DAoC RvR with WoW PvE, using Elder Scrolls skin.
Will it work? Dunno. But I do know that it will not be very much like Skyrim or other Elder Scrolls games which I believe is what many are griping about.
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Yeah, no.
Faction lock prevented players from rolling multiple characters on a server. This never in any way prevented a player from looking at faction count, rolling a character and looking at the progress each one was making in their fights, then deleting the character and later rolling the one they thought was performing best.
A single character being rolled and not being allowed to change factions after creation means next to nothing. This is why I mentioned 'rerolling' before.
This happened a bunch and still does happen. The difference at this point is that people have been playing long enough that they would be losing a good chunk of time invested to make a new char, and likely have a person on each faction any ways.
I actually have a TR and a NC on the same server together (because of server merges) and it does actually make me consider faction jumping from time to time depending on how things are going.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Sorry but RPS are one of the few gaming sites I trust.
They rightfully called out diablo3, sim city and all the boring cod iterations, they've pointed me in the direction of severs cool indie games and they like mmos I like e.g. eve and ps2.
If they say TESO has wow style led by the nose pve, it has wow style led by the nose pve.
Hopefully they can fix this, although the anti-rvr clamour probably means they will alter things elsewhere.
They will likely not "fix" it because they probably see it as working as intended.
My gaming blog
Ps2
Gw2
Tsw
Swtor
Rift SL
Wow
ps2 wins hands down. My server is 37% nc, 32% tr, 31% vs. I'm vs, we regularly win alerts / dominate continents etc..
Can't say the same for gw2, you pretty much know who's going to win a WvW cycle as soon as they pair the servers.
Skyrim had minimal levels but if you chose to follow the various story lines--which most people did--it was pretty WOW-like complete with quests that sent you to appropriate places. It even had areas that were locked to you until you had learned the proper shout required to get through the obstacle. Same is true of all of the TES games going back to Arena.
The main story lines are guided and quest driven. Same here.
The only difference is that here (after level 10) you can level with just RvR--if you have the patience to wait for fights to happen that is, and that they have levels.
There isn't a single level-based game I know of where you can go off to any PvE area you choose and grind. You could push the boundaries by grouping but only up to the point where your abilities either miss too often or the damage you do is insignificant with the mobs level-dependent hit-points.
BTW, a no level MMO would have no character advancement. Or if it did by getting better gear and better at your abilities, it would eventually trivialize the content. Only way around that dilemma I can think of is having mobs auto-bolstered to match you.,.which in turn would lead to personal instances. Now we're back at a single player game
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED