I still don't like the design because it smells 100% of LAZY and cutting corners.There might even be a LOT more to it,like perhaps they don't even have a decent menu system to give creatures any more property than a simple loot table.I mean you eliminate a lot of statistical properties,a lot of the Ai,aggro and hate properties just a ton of corner cutting on game design.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The problem with adding PVE, is that in order to have PVE system you would have to change the way the underlying game works. You'd have to change the way loot works, you'd have to change the way the world is designed, you'd have to change the way leveling works... You have to change WAY more than people think. PVE isn't something you can just tack-on.
When a game has a both PVE and PVP one is always going to get watered down to spend resources on the other. Combat can't work the same, abilities have to be changed, and the balance is never quite what anyone wants.
Sure it would be great for CU to have a million players, but in order to GET those million players, it would no longer be CU. Then you just have another fantasy MMO with PVE, and open world factional PVP. There are now what.... Five of those?
CU doesn't want a million players, they want everyone who is tired of having to grind PVE levels in order to go PVP. They are trying to get the players who are tired of seeing major game updates where the RvR changes are stuck on page 3 in tiny writing. Where you spend 99% of your time in 5% of the game. Where your a second class citizen just because you don't give a damn about raiding, or new bosses, or new dungeons.
CU is PVP.......
On day 1, and on day 1000.
Will CU have a smaller population because of this.?... yes
But they arn't going to compromise to win you over. You already have your games, let us have ours.
this post made me want to jump on the CU bandwagon,support it and embrace pvp! just thought you should know lol
Originally posted by Wizardry I still don't like the design because it smells 100% of LAZY and cutting corners.There might even be a LOT more to it,like perhaps they don't even have a decent menu system to give creatures any more property than a simple loot table.I mean you eliminate a lot of statistical properties,a lot of the Ai,aggro and hate properties just a ton of corner cutting on game design.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if "lazy" is the word you're going with to describe them. There are a lot of things they could have done to cut corners if they were really just being lazy. The things you're talking about them cutting out are BY DESIGN because this is not a PvE game. Not having PvE does free up a lot of time and resources, but not so they can be lazy. It's so they can dedicate that time to making this a solid RvR game. You think they don't have the ability to give properties to creatures? LOL.. You should really go educate yourself before trying to call them lazy developers. I'm not trying to be rude here but good lord.. what a joke.
Originally posted by Wizardry I still don't like the design because it smells 100% of LAZY and cutting corners.There might even be a LOT more to it,like perhaps they don't even have a decent menu system to give creatures any more property than a simple loot table.I mean you eliminate a lot of statistical properties,a lot of the Ai,aggro and hate properties just a ton of corner cutting on game design.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if "lazy" is the word you're going with to describe them. There are a lot of things they could have done to cut corners if they were really just being lazy. The things you're talking about them cutting out are BY DESIGN because this is not a PvE game. Not having PvE does free up a lot of time and resources, but not so they can be lazy. It's so they can dedicate that time to making this a solid RvR game. You think they don't have the ability to give properties to creatures? LOL.. You should really go educate yourself before trying to call them lazy developers. I'm not trying to be rude here but good lord.. what a joke.
If you think that PVP MMOs are not easier to make than true PVE MMORPGs then you are delusional. PVP is much cheaper to make and to populate than a decent PVE game is. It is cheap content (or none really) in an MMORPG setting, nothing more. It relies on players to entertain each other, not the game itself. Every PVPer wants full loot but when only PVPers are left playing this kind of game, the games gets stagnate. What PVPers want is to PK PVEers. Its a thrill for them and game devs know this. They are now trying to draw in PVEers so they become 'the draw' as potential victims.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Originally posted by Wizardry I still don't like the design because it smells 100% of LAZY and cutting corners.There might even be a LOT more to it,like perhaps they don't even have a decent menu system to give creatures any more property than a simple loot table.I mean you eliminate a lot of statistical properties,a lot of the Ai,aggro and hate properties just a ton of corner cutting on game design.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if "lazy" is the word you're going with to describe them. There are a lot of things they could have done to cut corners if they were really just being lazy. The things you're talking about them cutting out are BY DESIGN because this is not a PvE game. Not having PvE does free up a lot of time and resources, but not so they can be lazy. It's so they can dedicate that time to making this a solid RvR game. You think they don't have the ability to give properties to creatures? LOL.. You should really go educate yourself before trying to call them lazy developers. I'm not trying to be rude here but good lord.. what a joke.
If you think that PVP MMOs are not easier to make than true PVE MMORPGs then you are delusional. PVP is much cheaper to make and to populate than a decent PVE game is. It is cheap content (or none really) in an MMORPG setting, nothing more. It relies on players to entertain each other, not the game itself. Every PVPer wants full loot but when only PVPers are left playing this kind of game, the games gets stagnate. What PVPers want is to PK PVEers. Its a thrill for them and game devs know this. They are now trying to draw in PVEers so they become 'the draw' as potential victims.
First off, I didn't say anywhere that PvP games were harder to make. I just stated that it's ridiculous to call them lazy for making a game that doesn't have PvE in it. They're making a game without PvE because that's the vision. It's not like they started making an MMO with PvE in it, like the thousands already out there, and then cut PvE to save time or something. They're making a game that doesn't already exist 1000 times over which is refreshing to me.
I also disagree that they are trying to draw in PvE players. All I see them doing is appealing to PvP/RvR players. You're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't see it.
Originally posted by Axxar I think PvE games can be great. But the whole PvE gear treadmill model is overdone in MMOs, I feel.
Agreed. I loved how the best gear came from crafters, and raids were just for funsies in DAoC. CU seems to be emulating that design.
Unfortunately in DAOC the best gear does not come from crafters.I WISH THAT WAS NOT SO..This is one of the reasons I'm interested in CAMELOT UNCHAINED.
Originally posted by Wizardry I still don't like the design because it smells 100% of LAZY and cutting corners.There might even be a LOT more to it,like perhaps they don't even have a decent menu system to give creatures any more property than a simple loot table.I mean you eliminate a lot of statistical properties,a lot of the Ai,aggro and hate properties just a ton of corner cutting on game design.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if "lazy" is the word you're going with to describe them. There are a lot of things they could have done to cut corners if they were really just being lazy. The things you're talking about them cutting out are BY DESIGN because this is not a PvE game. Not having PvE does free up a lot of time and resources, but not so they can be lazy. It's so they can dedicate that time to making this a solid RvR game. You think they don't have the ability to give properties to creatures? LOL.. You should really go educate yourself before trying to call them lazy developers. I'm not trying to be rude here but good lord.. what a joke.
If you think that PVP MMOs are not easier to make than true PVE MMORPGs then you are delusional. PVP is much cheaper to make and to populate than a decent PVE game is. It is cheap content (or none really) in an MMORPG setting, nothing more. It relies on players to entertain each other, not the game itself. Every PVPer wants full loot but when only PVPers are left playing this kind of game, the games gets stagnate. What PVPers want is to PK PVEers. Its a thrill for them and game devs know this. They are now trying to draw in PVEers so they become 'the draw' as potential victims.
What you describe ...pvp'rs ganking pve'rs is not how DARK AGE OF CAMELOT(the best faction vs faction game ever made...IMO ) works ...at all
The game has pve areas...where there is no pvp and the game has the FRONTIER where people who pvp roam.They are looking for other pvp'rs and those who CHOOSE to pve and the risks associated with that choice.
Originally posted by Wizardry I still don't like the design because it smells 100% of LAZY and cutting corners.There might even be a LOT more to it,like perhaps they don't even have a decent menu system to give creatures any more property than a simple loot table.I mean you eliminate a lot of statistical properties,a lot of the Ai,aggro and hate properties just a ton of corner cutting on game design.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if "lazy" is the word you're going with to describe them. There are a lot of things they could have done to cut corners if they were really just being lazy. The things you're talking about them cutting out are BY DESIGN because this is not a PvE game. Not having PvE does free up a lot of time and resources, but not so they can be lazy. It's so they can dedicate that time to making this a solid RvR game. You think they don't have the ability to give properties to creatures? LOL.. You should really go educate yourself before trying to call them lazy developers. I'm not trying to be rude here but good lord.. what a joke.
If you think that PVP MMOs are not easier to make than true PVE MMORPGs then you are delusional. PVP is much cheaper to make and to populate than a decent PVE game is. It is cheap content (or none really) in an MMORPG setting, nothing more. It relies on players to entertain each other, not the game itself. Every PVPer wants full loot but when only PVPers are left playing this kind of game, the games gets stagnate. What PVPers want is to PK PVEers. Its a thrill for them and game devs know this. They are now trying to draw in PVEers so they become 'the draw' as potential victims.
Nice troll, except camelot unchained isn't a FFA PVP looting game like you described. You're describing crowfall. Now go hype it on the game hype meter +10
Hey folks, so back when this was first announced, and I heard there was no PvE, I pictured a boring barren world with a constant pointless war, with no lore, nothing to tether it to any real fight.
A lot like Planetside 2, actually.
I think it was the biggest mistake of this Kickstarter not to elaborate on the "no PvE" thing.
There will be no PvE leveling. All leveling happens in RvR.
But, there will be monsters, and animals, and guards, and soldiers. They exist for CRAFTERS, and as obstacles. Their hides and parts will become raw materials, house decorations, ect. Mj wants dungeons (not just the Depths or mines) in the game for crafting materials and such.
There is a lot of room for PvE that isn't traditional PvE, but is still an NPC monster for you and your buddies to bash on when you aren't warring in the realm.
I do not know to what extent this side of the game will be expanded to, but it DOES exist. Lore DOES exist. This isn't just planetside without guns. I am relieved, to say the least.
Folks will be in for a shock when they find out this isn't like logging into Archeage or Wow or such and suddenly having to solo to end game. Folks are conditioned to think that's normal. Luckily, it isn't, that's just a way to destroy a community - in fact, questlines are just community killers, because everyone is fighting over the quest objectives, soloing, soloing, etc.
Dark Age of Camelot made grouping necessary and rewarding (not smart enough to increase xp gain per slot filled but still)....so you could beat on mob spawns with friends, level up, and move on. Fun times. I hope folks get to do that here. Great way to get to know the people of your realm.
Granted, you could level in a pvp zone too - for a lot more xp. Just, you paid a price (lol). That was super fun as well. But, for the sake of folks who like to lay back and take a break from the chaos of pvp, sometimes it's really nice to just grind a safe pve zone. Just relaxing, therapeutic, while getting refreshed for some great rvr.
The problem with adding PVE, is that in order to have PVE system you would have to change the way the underlying game works. You'd have to change the way loot works, you'd have to change the way the world is designed, you'd have to change the way leveling works... You have to change WAY more than people think. PVE isn't something you can just tack-on.
When a game has a both PVE and PVP one is always going to get watered down to spend resources on the other. Combat can't work the same, abilities have to be changed, and the balance is never quite what anyone wants.
Sure it would be great for CU to have a million players, but in order to GET those million players, it would no longer be CU. Then you just have another fantasy MMO with PVE, and open world factional PVP. There are now what.... Five of those?
CU doesn't want a million players, they want everyone who is tired of having to grind PVE levels in order to go PVP. They are trying to get the players who are tired of seeing major game updates where the RvR changes are stuck on page 3 in tiny writing. Where you spend 99% of your time in 5% of the game. Where your a second class citizen just because you don't give a damn about raiding, or new bosses, or new dungeons.
CU is PVP.......
On day 1, and on day 1000.
Will CU have a smaller population because of this.?... yes
But they arn't going to compromise to win you over. You already have your games, let us have ours.
The problem with adding PVE, is that in order to have PVE system you would have to change the way the underlying game works. You'd have to change the way loot works, you'd have to change the way the world is designed, you'd have to change the way leveling works... You have to change WAY more than people think. PVE isn't something you can just tack-on.
When a game has a both PVE and PVP one is always going to get watered down to spend resources on the other. Combat can't work the same, abilities have to be changed, and the balance is never quite what anyone wants.
Sure it would be great for CU to have a million players, but in order to GET those million players, it would no longer be CU. Then you just have another fantasy MMO with PVE, and open world factional PVP. There are now what.... Five of those?
CU doesn't want a million players, they want everyone who is tired of having to grind PVE levels in order to go PVP. They are trying to get the players who are tired of seeing major game updates where the RvR changes are stuck on page 3 in tiny writing. Where you spend 99% of your time in 5% of the game. Where your a second class citizen just because you don't give a damn about raiding, or new bosses, or new dungeons.
CU is PVP.......
On day 1, and on day 1000.
Will CU have a smaller population because of this.?... yes
But they arn't going to compromise to win you over. You already have your games, let us have ours.
None of this is true at all. I guess unless your developing the game and your not last I checked. I would think your opinion lies closer to the fear of losing PvP development time to PvE stuff.
You do all realise that Dark Age of Camelot has PvE? With PvE quests and story, and since this game is essentialy the successor to DAoC - why not have PvE? You have all these wonderful races, but no lore or purpose for being "except to fight the other realm", gets boring fast. If this is supposed to be an immersive MMO , then you NEED pve for the downtime and for people to want to keep logging in. They need a cheaper Collectors edition and PVE and I would have pledged day one.
Originally posted by burdock2 You do all realise that Dark Age of Camelot has PvE? With PvE quests and story, and since this game is essentialy the successor to DAoC - why not have PvE? You have all these wonderful races, but no lore or purpose for being "except to fight the other realm", gets boring fast. If this is supposed to be an immersive MMO , then you NEED pve for the downtime and for people to want to keep logging in. They need a cheaper Collectors edition and PVE and I would have pledged day one.
Fully agree. A PVP only game is essentially a shooter. And while those can be fun, there is a faster burnout time.
Fully disagree. It's only a shooter when you don't have REALMS. When there's chaos with no rhyme or reason (like when all of the realms and rules were taken out of one of the daoc servers), it quickly devolves into killing random people for hours. That kind of gameplay gets old pretty quick. But when you're working as a team to accomplish objectives and take territory, that has lasting power. Also, you're forgetting the crafters and the ability to build and shape the world.
Originally posted by burdock2 You do all realise that Dark Age of Camelot has PvE? With PvE quests and story, and since this game is essentialy the successor to DAoC - why not have PvE? You have all these wonderful races, but no lore or purpose for being "except to fight the other realm", gets boring fast. If this is supposed to be an immersive MMO , then you NEED pve for the downtime and for people to want to keep logging in. They need a cheaper Collectors edition and PVE and I would have pledged day one.
Fully agree. A PVP only game is essentially a shooter. And while those can be fun, there is a faster burnout time.
PvE has a WAY faster burnout time for me. You do a raid or whatever one time and you know what to expect every single time you do it. That's extremely boring. PvP has variation and less predictability. It's much more entertaining to outplay a real person than to step through the exact same fight to beat an encounter over and over and over.
Originally posted by sibs4455 Who on earth pve's in an rvr pvp game?, if you want to see what is wrong with that then just reload Warhammer and take alook.
It's not so black and white. As if anyone who enjoys pve must hate rvr and vice versa. No pve had me worried because it basically gave me the impression that this wasn't an MMORPG at all. Just a planetside-like game where you log in a fight for absolutely no reason other than to fight.
That is NOT what DAOC was all about. Quite the opposite, it was about living in a world where you were invested in story and side that you were on. It was about living in that world and diving into RVR to protect or fight for your chunk of that world. In other words, it has (I won't say had, since it's still around) depth.
Is that too much to ask for now? Can that kind of game simply not be made anymore? A game with DEPTH?
PvE is not depth. It's nothing but static gameplay that grows stale after the first time you play through it. On top of that, it distracts from the REAL focus of the game which is PvP. Give me a game that is only PvP in which everybody is invested in PvP, and I'll stick around. A PvP only game doesn't have to be like Planetside. If they do it right, there will be some form of progression that keeps you engaged as well as other useful activities like crafting and building things. PvE is nothing but killing dumb npcs. No challenge. No fun.
PVE never got stale for me in DAoC, certainly not for the first two years (which seems like an unreal eternity compared to modern mmos).
I got my first character to 50, did a bunch of RvR while getting started on my second 50, joined a very succesful static RvR group with that one while getting several chars up to 24 and 35 for the BGs and leveling my spellcrafter to cap.
I also did a bunch of solo farming for endgame items (Band of Ice in Raumarik and Diamond Seals for those familiar with DAoC) which was certainly challenging enough but also very enjoyable, relaxed and lucrative.
DAoC had that special something, that connection to the world that is very hard to explain for someone not invested in the game. Even 14 years later I can and have recently spent countless hours wandering Midgard and having a blast leveling (albeit much faster).
Memories of seeing the same reliable crafters sitting in Gna Faste while selling my loot from Spindelhalla will forever be burnt into my brain.
A lot of us are simply looking for a world, a realm, something that is worth fighting for. RvR didn't start at level 1 but you're damn sure I was ready to defend Midgards relics when the time came.
I do think the decision to make PVE very limited in CU was the correct one though for the scope of the game. I think technology and expectations have skyrocketed so much that you currently can't create a living breathing world on a budget like you were able to back in the day. It takes 5 years to make a game like GTA 5 which has a large world but certainly not an MMO worthy world. Technology will progress and automatic generation of landscapes will get better (as we are seeing from games like Minecraft) but we are not quite there yet.
Mostly MMOs have to get rid of the huge emphasis on individual quests that are completely meaningless. SWTOR would have done way better by focusing on the main class quests and ignoring all the rest. That was useless, costly padding that very few people enjoyed. Once you get rid of all the quests you can start creating actual leveling spots (and even dungeons) for actual groups again and don't have to awkwardly distribute a whole bunch of mobs and plants throughout the world.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 I don't want to play PVP. I want to play another DAOC with focus on the PVE game. I just cannot drink enough coffee to keep up with the twitchy, spastic PVP crowd.
I think ESO would probably be right up your alley, my friend. It puts more emphasis on the PvE and the PvP is similar to Daoc.. Camelot Unchained WILL be a pvp only game. No sense in trying to change minds over that. City State Entertainment is smart to take this route because it's a niche design in a sea of WoW clones. So you have to make a stark choice between this pvp-only game and pretty much any of the hundreds of pve focused WoW clone games out there. And that's the way it should be. Variety, variety, variety!
I love how all the uber pvp players have to take it to the forums and attack anyone that enjoys pve. I play full loot games no issue, but the difference here is you CANT pvp without taking part in the PVE. You cant respawn and run back to the fight, unless you got guildies doing that PVE crap for you, and guess what, they will need protecting.
So many people posting here have NFI about how sandbox systems work. PVP is there to consume the items the PVE players are crafting. SOooo those uber guilds only after pvp will either chase off all PVE players destroying the game, or they learn to co-operate and help each other..... Lessons in life kids, you smack people too often soon enough it will screw YOUR life.
There is no running around in a set of armor for days on end, you will likely spend only 25% of your time engaging in pvp as the rest of the time you will be gathering stuff to replace the things you lost for been a noob.
You want constant PVP, this game will not be for you. You want constant PVE this game wont be for you. This is a game for people that enjoy risk and reward.
I have to admit I walked away and have not looked back after I read the "No PvE" statement. To get me to look into this game now, I would need to see how much effort is being put into PvE. Or is it something tacked on at the end like most PvE games do with PvP. DAoC had a very rich open world PvE game, one that still holds many fond memories for me. For now, I will put this game back on my radar till I see what plans they have for PvE.
Originally posted by burdock2 You do all realise that Dark Age of Camelot has PvE? With PvE quests and story, and since this game is essentialy the successor to DAoC - why not have PvE? You have all these wonderful races, but no lore or purpose for being "except to fight the other realm", gets boring fast. If this is supposed to be an immersive MMO , then you NEED pve for the downtime and for people to want to keep logging in. They need a cheaper Collectors edition and PVE and I would have pledged day one.
Fully agree. A PVP only game is essentially a shooter. And while those can be fun, there is a faster burnout time.
PvE has a WAY faster burnout time for me. You do a raid or whatever one time and you know what to expect every single time you do it. That's extremely boring. PvP has variation and less predictability. It's much more entertaining to outplay a real person than to step through the exact same fight to beat an encounter over and over and over.
For me its when I spend to much time doing the same content. If all I have to do in a game is PvP I soon feel the need to kick back and relax doing some PvE. If all I do is PvE I soon feel the need to get some on the edge of my seat action. Both are great but IMO one a game focuses on just one area the greater chance people will burn out. If CU is really going to have PvE, it better be something really fun to play and content that will make PvEer enjoy it so much, they are willing to take the risk of getting attacked. Or make the reward so huge, PvPers will come protect the PvEers as they do their thing.
Originally posted by burdock2 You do all realise that Dark Age of Camelot has PvE? With PvE quests and story, and since this game is essentialy the successor to DAoC - why not have PvE? You have all these wonderful races, but no lore or purpose for being "except to fight the other realm", gets boring fast. If this is supposed to be an immersive MMO , then you NEED pve for the downtime and for people to want to keep logging in. They need a cheaper Collectors edition and PVE and I would have pledged day one.
Fully agree. A PVP only game is essentially a shooter. And while those can be fun, there is a faster burnout time.
PvE has a WAY faster burnout time for me. You do a raid or whatever one time and you know what to expect every single time you do it. That's extremely boring. PvP has variation and less predictability. It's much more entertaining to outplay a real person than to step through the exact same fight to beat an encounter over and over and over.
For me its when I spend to much time doing the same content. If all I have to do in a game is PvP I soon feel the need to kick back and relax doing some PvE. If all I do is PvE I soon feel the need to get some on the edge of my seat action. Both are great but IMO one a game focuses on just one area the greater chance people will burn out. If CU is really going to have PvE, it better be something really fun to play and content that will make PvEer enjoy it so much, they are willing to take the risk of getting attacked. Or make the reward so huge, PvPers will come protect the PvEers as they do their thing.
To be clear little is known about what pve is in game. What Is know is that there are only 3 pillars of game play for CU:
1. RvR
2. Crafting
3. Housing
What pve is in game will be associated with those pillars. This means pve as a separate game mechanic does not exist. You can kill mobs for crafting loot but gain no direct xp for advancement. You don't even gain direct xp for RvR either. Your daily contribution to your realm's progression in RvR grants you XP. This means you don't even have to fight anyone as long as you are providing some assistance for your realm.
This could mean collecting crafting loot from areas crafters can't manage alone or against mobs they can't kill, holding control of The Depths which are said to hold powerful npcs both in and possibly out of your control and also fighting off ghosts of players who are rumored to be able to possibly control mobs in The Depths as it actually fights against your own realm too (because you get booted out of control at some point no matter what your realm does to control it) or perhaps you can help secure new lands against the veil storms that doesn't come in conflict with other realms (pure chance I imagine). It may be possible to play the game in a way that rarely involved combat but it is always associated with RvR or else you gain no experience to progress your character.
To make one things clear though: there are no "PvEers" as you stated. There are only RvRers and this includes crafters who contribute to the growth of your realm even if they never enter combat. There is no PvEer to protect ... they do not exist.
I love how all the uber pvp players have to take it to the forums and attack anyone that enjoys pve. I play full loot games no issue, but the difference here is you CANT pvp without taking part in the PVE. You cant respawn and run back to the fight, unless you got guildies doing that PVE crap for you, and guess what, they will need protecting.
So many people posting here have NFI about how sandbox systems work. PVP is there to consume the items the PVE players are crafting. SOooo those uber guilds only after pvp will either chase off all PVE players destroying the game, or they learn to co-operate and help each other..... Lessons in life kids, you smack people too often soon enough it will screw YOUR life.
There is no running around in a set of armor for days on end, you will likely spend only 25% of your time engaging in pvp as the rest of the time you will be gathering stuff to replace the things you lost for been a noob.
You want constant PVP, this game will not be for you. You want constant PVE this game wont be for you. This is a game for people that enjoy risk and reward.
I think we have a different definition of "PvE". To me, crafting and building things is NOT PvE. PvE is when you fight (farm, really) dumb, static npc creatures for experience like in 99.99999% of the MMOs out there. I don't plan to PvP 100% of the time, either. I will do plenty of crafting and building things whenever I'm burnt out from straight pvp. But again, that is NOT PvE. That's more like PwE (Playing with the Environment).
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Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
this post made me want to jump on the CU bandwagon,support it and embrace pvp! just thought you should know lol
I have to admit, it was one of my better rants.
I'll see you on the CU forums.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if "lazy" is the word you're going with to describe them. There are a lot of things they could have done to cut corners if they were really just being lazy. The things you're talking about them cutting out are BY DESIGN because this is not a PvE game. Not having PvE does free up a lot of time and resources, but not so they can be lazy. It's so they can dedicate that time to making this a solid RvR game. You think they don't have the ability to give properties to creatures? LOL.. You should really go educate yourself before trying to call them lazy developers. I'm not trying to be rude here but good lord.. what a joke.
If you think that PVP MMOs are not easier to make than true PVE MMORPGs then you are delusional. PVP is much cheaper to make and to populate than a decent PVE game is. It is cheap content (or none really) in an MMORPG setting, nothing more. It relies on players to entertain each other, not the game itself. Every PVPer wants full loot but when only PVPers are left playing this kind of game, the games gets stagnate. What PVPers want is to PK PVEers. Its a thrill for them and game devs know this. They are now trying to draw in PVEers so they become 'the draw' as potential victims.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
First off, I didn't say anywhere that PvP games were harder to make. I just stated that it's ridiculous to call them lazy for making a game that doesn't have PvE in it. They're making a game without PvE because that's the vision. It's not like they started making an MMO with PvE in it, like the thousands already out there, and then cut PvE to save time or something. They're making a game that doesn't already exist 1000 times over which is refreshing to me.
I also disagree that they are trying to draw in PvE players. All I see them doing is appealing to PvP/RvR players. You're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't see it.
Unfortunately in DAOC the best gear does not come from crafters.I WISH THAT WAS NOT SO..This is one of the reasons I'm interested in CAMELOT UNCHAINED.
What you describe ...pvp'rs ganking pve'rs is not how DARK AGE OF CAMELOT(the best faction vs faction game ever made...IMO ) works ...at all
The game has pve areas...where there is no pvp and the game has the FRONTIER where people who pvp roam.They are looking for other pvp'rs and those who CHOOSE to pve and the risks associated with that choice.
Nice troll, except camelot unchained isn't a FFA PVP looting game like you described. You're describing crowfall. Now go hype it on the game hype meter +10
Folks will be in for a shock when they find out this isn't like logging into Archeage or Wow or such and suddenly having to solo to end game. Folks are conditioned to think that's normal. Luckily, it isn't, that's just a way to destroy a community - in fact, questlines are just community killers, because everyone is fighting over the quest objectives, soloing, soloing, etc.
Dark Age of Camelot made grouping necessary and rewarding (not smart enough to increase xp gain per slot filled but still)....so you could beat on mob spawns with friends, level up, and move on. Fun times. I hope folks get to do that here. Great way to get to know the people of your realm.
Granted, you could level in a pvp zone too - for a lot more xp. Just, you paid a price (lol). That was super fun as well. But, for the sake of folks who like to lay back and take a break from the chaos of pvp, sometimes it's really nice to just grind a safe pve zone. Just relaxing, therapeutic, while getting refreshed for some great rvr.
I hope they remember that at CU.
AMEN!
None of this is true at all. I guess unless your developing the game and your not last I checked. I would think your opinion lies closer to the fear of losing PvP development time to PvE stuff.
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
Fully disagree. It's only a shooter when you don't have REALMS. When there's chaos with no rhyme or reason (like when all of the realms and rules were taken out of one of the daoc servers), it quickly devolves into killing random people for hours. That kind of gameplay gets old pretty quick. But when you're working as a team to accomplish objectives and take territory, that has lasting power. Also, you're forgetting the crafters and the ability to build and shape the world.
PvE has a WAY faster burnout time for me. You do a raid or whatever one time and you know what to expect every single time you do it. That's extremely boring. PvP has variation and less predictability. It's much more entertaining to outplay a real person than to step through the exact same fight to beat an encounter over and over and over.
PvE is not depth. It's nothing but static gameplay that grows stale after the first time you play through it. On top of that, it distracts from the REAL focus of the game which is PvP. Give me a game that is only PvP in which everybody is invested in PvP, and I'll stick around. A PvP only game doesn't have to be like Planetside. If they do it right, there will be some form of progression that keeps you engaged as well as other useful activities like crafting and building things. PvE is nothing but killing dumb npcs. No challenge. No fun.
PVE never got stale for me in DAoC, certainly not for the first two years (which seems like an unreal eternity compared to modern mmos).
I got my first character to 50, did a bunch of RvR while getting started on my second 50, joined a very succesful static RvR group with that one while getting several chars up to 24 and 35 for the BGs and leveling my spellcrafter to cap.
I also did a bunch of solo farming for endgame items (Band of Ice in Raumarik and Diamond Seals for those familiar with DAoC) which was certainly challenging enough but also very enjoyable, relaxed and lucrative.
DAoC had that special something, that connection to the world that is very hard to explain for someone not invested in the game. Even 14 years later I can and have recently spent countless hours wandering Midgard and having a blast leveling (albeit much faster).
Memories of seeing the same reliable crafters sitting in Gna Faste while selling my loot from Spindelhalla will forever be burnt into my brain.
A lot of us are simply looking for a world, a realm, something that is worth fighting for. RvR didn't start at level 1 but you're damn sure I was ready to defend Midgards relics when the time came.
I do think the decision to make PVE very limited in CU was the correct one though for the scope of the game. I think technology and expectations have skyrocketed so much that you currently can't create a living breathing world on a budget like you were able to back in the day. It takes 5 years to make a game like GTA 5 which has a large world but certainly not an MMO worthy world. Technology will progress and automatic generation of landscapes will get better (as we are seeing from games like Minecraft) but we are not quite there yet.
Mostly MMOs have to get rid of the huge emphasis on individual quests that are completely meaningless. SWTOR would have done way better by focusing on the main class quests and ignoring all the rest. That was useless, costly padding that very few people enjoyed. Once you get rid of all the quests you can start creating actual leveling spots (and even dungeons) for actual groups again and don't have to awkwardly distribute a whole bunch of mobs and plants throughout the world.
I think ESO would probably be right up your alley, my friend. It puts more emphasis on the PvE and the PvP is similar to Daoc.. Camelot Unchained WILL be a pvp only game. No sense in trying to change minds over that. City State Entertainment is smart to take this route because it's a niche design in a sea of WoW clones. So you have to make a stark choice between this pvp-only game and pretty much any of the hundreds of pve focused WoW clone games out there. And that's the way it should be. Variety, variety, variety!
I love how all the uber pvp players have to take it to the forums and attack anyone that enjoys pve. I play full loot games no issue, but the difference here is you CANT pvp without taking part in the PVE. You cant respawn and run back to the fight, unless you got guildies doing that PVE crap for you, and guess what, they will need protecting.
So many people posting here have NFI about how sandbox systems work. PVP is there to consume the items the PVE players are crafting. SOooo those uber guilds only after pvp will either chase off all PVE players destroying the game, or they learn to co-operate and help each other..... Lessons in life kids, you smack people too often soon enough it will screw YOUR life.
There is no running around in a set of armor for days on end, you will likely spend only 25% of your time engaging in pvp as the rest of the time you will be gathering stuff to replace the things you lost for been a noob.
You want constant PVP, this game will not be for you. You want constant PVE this game wont be for you. This is a game for people that enjoy risk and reward.
For me its when I spend to much time doing the same content. If all I have to do in a game is PvP I soon feel the need to kick back and relax doing some PvE. If all I do is PvE I soon feel the need to get some on the edge of my seat action. Both are great but IMO one a game focuses on just one area the greater chance people will burn out. If CU is really going to have PvE, it better be something really fun to play and content that will make PvEer enjoy it so much, they are willing to take the risk of getting attacked. Or make the reward so huge, PvPers will come protect the PvEers as they do their thing.
To be clear little is known about what pve is in game. What Is know is that there are only 3 pillars of game play for CU:
1. RvR
2. Crafting
3. Housing
What pve is in game will be associated with those pillars. This means pve as a separate game mechanic does not exist. You can kill mobs for crafting loot but gain no direct xp for advancement. You don't even gain direct xp for RvR either. Your daily contribution to your realm's progression in RvR grants you XP. This means you don't even have to fight anyone as long as you are providing some assistance for your realm.
This could mean collecting crafting loot from areas crafters can't manage alone or against mobs they can't kill, holding control of The Depths which are said to hold powerful npcs both in and possibly out of your control and also fighting off ghosts of players who are rumored to be able to possibly control mobs in The Depths as it actually fights against your own realm too (because you get booted out of control at some point no matter what your realm does to control it) or perhaps you can help secure new lands against the veil storms that doesn't come in conflict with other realms (pure chance I imagine). It may be possible to play the game in a way that rarely involved combat but it is always associated with RvR or else you gain no experience to progress your character.
To make one things clear though: there are no "PvEers" as you stated. There are only RvRers and this includes crafters who contribute to the growth of your realm even if they never enter combat. There is no PvEer to protect ... they do not exist.
You stay sassy!
I think we have a different definition of "PvE". To me, crafting and building things is NOT PvE. PvE is when you fight (farm, really) dumb, static npc creatures for experience like in 99.99999% of the MMOs out there. I don't plan to PvP 100% of the time, either. I will do plenty of crafting and building things whenever I'm burnt out from straight pvp. But again, that is NOT PvE. That's more like PwE (Playing with the Environment).