Game is fun, but the community is garbage. After my nth dungeon run with people rushing, needing on loot they can't even use and managing only to type "retard lol" in party chat rather than any meaningful communication, I logged out and haven't logged back in since.
Is this your first time playing a Free to Play game? You used Guild Wars 2 as a reference for your community experience, but that's buy to play. It's common knowledge that people act like douche bags when they have nothing to lose. There's no investment to worry about losing so they don't care about anything and act however they want. I've played many games and a large majority of Free to Play titles are comprised of mostly idiots, trolls and hackers. It's rare to see anything else and you shouldn't expect it or you'll just end up disappointed.
Originally posted by Vannor This is what you get when dungeon loot isn't bind on pickup. If they can sell it, they'll need it.
Pretty much this. If it sells well on the market and isn't BOP, then everyone "needs" it, to make cash if not for any other reason. Best thing to do is establish loot rules early on, get everyone to roll on only loot for their class or make it open season on all BOE's and then people can decided to trade for them later.
But the lack of social graces and communication largely describes why I don't play dungeon oriented games anymore unless I can roll with friends/guildies, just don't have the stomach for it anymore)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hey guys/gals,i'll get to the point,since it's late night.
Ok, so here's my story:i'm having a BLAST playing Neverwinter with a friend of mine,beautiful atmosphere,nice graphics for an old engine,good action combat....disgusting....community?
Why disgusting? you may ask?,well here's what happened.I'm level 55 Trickster Rogue,my friend is the same level,Guardian Fighter class(yes, he does not have any problem tanking,actually he can tank perfectly in dungeons).We wanted to join a level 55 dungeon,which is the one from Underdark.
We entered,we said "Hi/Hello".Nobody said a single WORD(not the first time that happened in the game).Ok....We began working our way into the depths of Underdark,until the Control Wizard from the party charges alone to a cluster of mobs without letting the tank go first(EVERY CW with i've been with has done that),then,OBVIOUSLY he dies in a matter of seconds.Thanks to him we almost wipe.
Words of the CW:fucking idiots attack
Me:finally someone decided to talk
CW: shut the fuck up kid
Ok....i know where this is going...we continued like nothing happened there(of course no one said a word after that).We arrived at 1 of the bosses,killed him,a rare dagger (blue)level 56 dropped,but the Cleric of the group decided to press the need button.
I asked him/her why did he/she need it,the answer was: "mine lol".After that i told him/her need it more than him/her,since i have a level 46 green dagger and obviously,i'm the only rogue on the party.And yeah that's called a ninja...
The next answer was: oh the drama right? lol
Friend of mine: What the fuck are you doing? give the dagger to my friend,he needs it more than you do
Me: it's ok, this is like playing with bots lol
No response after that.Ok,i understand that he/she may be want the dagger for selling it at the AH,but where's the "kindness" in this party? i mean,i would let the rogue have the dagger if i were the Cleric.
After all that, we finally get to the last boss, we kill him,i leave the party without saying anything.Of course, they don't deserve any "goodbye" or anything like that.
I log off the game after that(2:35 a.m),when my friend tells me via Steam,that this guys started telling him this:
Player:does your gay friend wants the dagger? i can give it to him.NOT
Friend (he was still in the party): "so you got a blue dagger. please type it in your curriculum, and tell it to your mom, so you can get a cookie"
He got insta-kicked.
So what i'm saying is this: WHAT THE F00K?. I've never seen a behavior like that...not even in GW2(and no, i don't play WoW since 2008). Is this is what i "missed"?....holy shit...
If this is what the furure holds in Neverwinter..well...time to say goodbye,if i want to play with bots, i'll play Dragon's Dogma..thank you very much.
PD:It seems i did a wall of text... oh well.. i hope you guys enjoyed.
tbh this is what you get when you don't have a sub based community and a f2p game that was handed to people like candy at no cost.literally anyone can d/load and play this game.chances are you got some nerdy 10 yr old lol.been in a couple of pugs in neverwinter myself but have not come across that type yet..no doubt I will.i just leave the party and look for another one.one thing will say..don't let the twat put you off enjoying a good game.
This kind of action is forcing out the decent people or making decent people play like the assholes just to stay competitive. It's not like it used it to be in the old days where communities where small enough to single out the bad apples and shame or ignore them into either treating others with respect or not playing. Another thing is since mmorpg's have taken off so much and attracting in new players, they generally do not know what's expected of them. Some kids I was in a party with had only ever seen players roll need for everything so that's what they thought was what you do, you try to correct them and then the next party they join goes back to rolling need on everything so they do as well. Seems to me to be the norm now rather than the exception. I know when I am in a pug with cool people I really appreciate it rather than expect it like I used to. I think it's up to the more experianced players to educate people but also up to the dev's to put the tools in place to help. I.E Fix the loot system so that the little asshats can't roll need on things they can't use, player tribunals would also be a step in the right direction. I have seldom in all my travels met a teenager who wasn't a prick. I know becasue once I was a teenager and I was a prick and so was everybody else I game with. It doesn't mean that they will grow up into the kind of shitheads they behave like now or that it's the end of the world for decent people, it's just a logical progression wen an online game get's popular. I think we need the tools to police ourselves a lot better and also need the Dev's to give more of a rats arse about the kind of people who play their games instead of just seeing flashing dollar signs everywhere.
Originally posted by spookydom This kind of action is forcing out the decent people or making decent people play like the assholes just to stay competitive. It's not like it used it to be in the old days where communities where small enough to single out the bad apples and shame or ignore them into either treating others with respect or not playing. Another thing is since mmorpg's have taken off so much and attracting in new players, they generally do not know what's expected of them. Some kids I was in a party with had only ever seen players roll need for everything so that's what they thought was what you do, you try to correct them and then the next party they join goes back to rolling need on everything so they do as well. Seems to me to be the norm now rather than the exception. I know when I am in a pug with cool people I really appreciate it rather than expect it like I used to. I think it's up to the more experianced players to educate people but also up to the dev's to put the tools in place to help. I.E Fix the loot system so that the little asshats can't roll need on things they can't use, player tribunals would also be a step in the right direction. I have seldom in all my travels met a teenager who wasn't a prick. I know becasue once I was a teenager and I was a prick and so was everybody else I game with. It doesn't mean that they will grow up into the kind of shitheads they behave like now or that it's the end of the world for decent people, it's just a logical progression wen an online game get's popular. I think we need the tools to police ourselves a lot better and also need the Dev's to give more of a rats arse about the kind of people who play their games instead of just seeing flashing dollar signs everywhere.
These mmos are all about support toons and support services and make some dollars. Really a shameful trend in mmo industry these days. Just made to loot dollars.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Nothing you can do about selfish idiots, but don't let them bring you down to their level. Don't be selfish just because they are selfish. Don't let someone else change who you are.
That said, I would like to see two changes in the loot rolling system. The first if obvious, if they can't use it then don't let them role need on it. Second, if someone roles need it should auto consume an ident scroll and bind the item to them. They claimed that they were going to use the item so they were obviously planning to do these things anyway, or they were lying. And yes, this would mean that they would have to have an ident scroll in their inventory in order to need an item. Seems like a reasonable cost to me.
Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing them do away with need and greed all together. If an items is only usable by one class then only randomize it among those of that class. If that class is not present then randomize it to everyone. Otherwise, if it can be used by everyone then randomize it to everyone and let people trade things around later if they feel like it. This is an action game anyway. Not having to deal with pop ups would be and improvement and nobody would need to feel guilty about needing stuff if all the choices were fixed by a universal looting algorithm.
Welcome to the current online gaming community. Aye that is what it is like and worse thesedays, has been for like the past 2-3 years. Not just in WoW but every online game, mostly in F2P ones or big named ones like WoW, p2P games which do not have numbers tend not to have this problem as much (is still there) but yep feel for you, know what you mean and are saying.
I would just start rolling Need on everything yourself, and then trade with the person if they are not selfish and arrogant if you win an item you don't really need anyways, after all, it was the dice that decided who got the item. If they PM you with arrogance tell them to go jump off a cliff or put a knife in their throats, after all if they did that it would just be 1 asshole gone from the world and they would not be missed, shocking to say that, many will disagree, but hey that's the way the human race has become in this day and age!
Back in 2011 when I went back to try Cataclysm in WoW the same thing happened more than once... it's just this generation of entitled little shits that make up the next MMO player wave that have grown up being spoon fed the best things by their parents and ergo cannot comprehend anyone else's needs. My best advice to you OP: Find good people to play with and stop PUG-ing, it is not worth it if you can avoid it, it is the same thing in any game with matchmaking/pug systems, if you do not believe me try playing World of Tanks when there's a special xp event... it's like, to quote the Mighty Jingles here, "all the window licking retards have come home to roost" and that's not in any way exaggerating (yesterday was the last day of one such special, I was forming a squad with one of my old university friends and a world of tanker I met a while back... the sheer stupidity and balls to the wall audacity I saw last night was incredible... I saw Hellcat tank destroyers camping the base, 3 of em in a tier 6 battle, when they died they had the temerity to start insulting everyone else, who actually did something not just sat on their hands... suffice to say I am glad my native language gives me a good imagination when it comes to insults which can be readily translated for maximum sting into english).
and dont get me started on the trolls i was minding my own business trying to sell stuff and i get accused of being a scammer, ok maybe the prices where out of line, i was just following the ah, and this guy goes totally nuts,spamming cussing, i wish there was a pill for people like that,,,,,,,, other than cyanide.
I suspect a large part of the general rudeness and selfishness is due to the F2P system. A great many players have nothing whatsoever invested in the game, so they behave badly with no fear of consequences. Even the threat of being banned is meaningless if you can just make a new account 2mins later.
And due to the F2P "payment model", everyone is trying to earn ingame currency in any way they can. So they will lie and cheat and roll "need" on everything in sight !
The internet is living proof of just how base most humans behave when there's no threat of consequence...
I honestly dont think you have to sit there and talk to every person you meet. If you are all doing your jobs in the dungeon then so be it. If someone is slacking or something about the dungeon needs to be discussed then so be it. I'm not sitting in dungeon ques to make friends and be social. You can't force people.
Originally posted by Burntvet F2P games always have worse communities (with the possible exception of DF1).
And the good p2p game communities are? Go ahead, tells us the great p2p game communities and how much better they are than everyone else. WoW, Rift, EVE.... yeah, those aren't so stellar.
At least there, you can ban the dumbasses with some effect. In F2P games, including NW, there are a-holes of every stripe (bots, chinese farmers, hackers/script kiddies) and nothing can be done to get rid of them. ANd that is on the very small off chance the company even bothers to ban anyone (which Cryptic especially is loathe to do). So while P2P communities might not always be great, F2P communities, in my experience, have always been terrible.
Originally posted by Burntvet Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by Burntvet F2P games always have worse communities (with the possible exception of DF1).
And the good p2p game communities are? Go ahead, tells us the great p2p game communities and how much better they are than everyone else. WoW, Rift, EVE.... yeah, those aren't so stellar.
At least there, you can ban the dumbasses with some effect. In F2P games, including NW, there are a-holes of every stripe (bots, chinese farmers, hackers/script kiddies) and nothing can be done to get rid of them. ANd that is on the very small off chance the company even bothers to ban anyone (which Cryptic especially is loathe to do). So while P2P communities might not always be great, F2P communities, in my experience, have always been terrible.
Any game is going to ban the most blatant exploiters as an example, but other than that games don't ban people. It takes away the revenue generation. Trion doesn't ban for this sort of stuff in Rift. Companies rarely outright fire customers that might otherwise spend money with them. Being a dumbass isn't really a good enough reason, no matter what the payment model is.
And yet, the same spammers/bots/farmers/PvP farmers/hackers/script kiddies are all over NW with no way to get rid of them. Cryptic has banned very, very few. And when they do, they are right back. That is one of the main the problems with F2P games in general and NW in particular.
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Generally, there's no talking in any of the group content in this game, pug-wise, so I'll agree the community is very anti-social. Still, I like how in most games, people like to blame the entire community for being bad when in reality, it was one person that really got under their skin.
Just ignore the person and finish the run. It's really not that big of a deal that you need to get so offended. People who get mad over little things like this on games have no life.
2. A CW died in seconds? He more than likely was using a high burst DPS PvP build then because no CW should die from anything in a few seconds due to massive control/slowing and pushing abilities.
Anyway, I haven't seen a decent community in an MMO since SWG and AC1...outside of my guild of course.
EQ 1, EQ 2, DAoC, AO, CoH, LoTRO, V:SoH and Wizard 101 all had / have very nice communities for the most part. Both EQ's had a good share of jerks too, more so than the other examples.
stop and inform them that you were supposed to have that loot
If they refuse to respond consider 2 options
1) sit there until the loot is given to you
2) if the rest of the group harasses you for being a "kid" for wanting what is yours, follow the group and ninja loot everything that drops. The team will learn ninjaing does not pay and you can laugh all the way to the bank.
Comments
Game is fun, but the community is garbage. After my nth dungeon run with people rushing, needing on loot they can't even use and managing only to type "retard lol" in party chat rather than any meaningful communication, I logged out and haven't logged back in since.
Oh well back to Fallout 3...
TERA fixed this ninja problem by not allowing anyone who cant use the gear to roll for it.
Show this thread to the official forums in Neverwinter and suggest they fix the loot roll by doing the same TERA did.
my name for pugs is "legions of Doom". The only I ever got consistently from any pug, regardless of game, was death and a repair bill.
Currently bored with MMO's.
Pretty much this. If it sells well on the market and isn't BOP, then everyone "needs" it, to make cash if not for any other reason. Best thing to do is establish loot rules early on, get everyone to roll on only loot for their class or make it open season on all BOE's and then people can decided to trade for them later.
But the lack of social graces and communication largely describes why I don't play dungeon oriented games anymore unless I can roll with friends/guildies, just don't have the stomach for it anymore)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
tbh this is what you get when you don't have a sub based community and a f2p game that was handed to people like candy at no cost.literally anyone can d/load and play this game.chances are you got some nerdy 10 yr old lol.been in a couple of pugs in neverwinter myself but have not come across that type yet..no doubt I will.i just leave the party and look for another one.one thing will say..don't let the twat put you off enjoying a good game.
These mmos are all about support toons and support services and make some dollars. Really a shameful trend in mmo industry these days. Just made to loot dollars.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
Nothing you can do about selfish idiots, but don't let them bring you down to their level. Don't be selfish just because they are selfish. Don't let someone else change who you are.
That said, I would like to see two changes in the loot rolling system. The first if obvious, if they can't use it then don't let them role need on it. Second, if someone roles need it should auto consume an ident scroll and bind the item to them. They claimed that they were going to use the item so they were obviously planning to do these things anyway, or they were lying. And yes, this would mean that they would have to have an ident scroll in their inventory in order to need an item. Seems like a reasonable cost to me.
Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing them do away with need and greed all together. If an items is only usable by one class then only randomize it among those of that class. If that class is not present then randomize it to everyone. Otherwise, if it can be used by everyone then randomize it to everyone and let people trade things around later if they feel like it. This is an action game anyway. Not having to deal with pop ups would be and improvement and nobody would need to feel guilty about needing stuff if all the choices were fixed by a universal looting algorithm.
All die, so die well.
Welcome to the current online gaming community. Aye that is what it is like and worse thesedays, has been for like the past 2-3 years. Not just in WoW but every online game, mostly in F2P ones or big named ones like WoW, p2P games which do not have numbers tend not to have this problem as much (is still there) but yep feel for you, know what you mean and are saying.
I would just start rolling Need on everything yourself, and then trade with the person if they are not selfish and arrogant if you win an item you don't really need anyways, after all, it was the dice that decided who got the item. If they PM you with arrogance tell them to go jump off a cliff or put a knife in their throats, after all if they did that it would just be 1 asshole gone from the world and they would not be missed, shocking to say that, many will disagree, but hey that's the way the human race has become in this day and age!
I suspect a large part of the general rudeness and selfishness is due to the F2P system. A great many players have nothing whatsoever invested in the game, so they behave badly with no fear of consequences. Even the threat of being banned is meaningless if you can just make a new account 2mins later.
And due to the F2P "payment model", everyone is trying to earn ingame currency in any way they can. So they will lie and cheat and roll "need" on everything in sight !
The internet is living proof of just how base most humans behave when there's no threat of consequence...
Especially in free to play games the community is just garbage.
Reason is cause many children and antisocial nerds with no life are playing them.
The other reason is that many normal players give up to try to be friendly in PUGs, or turned off the chat and do what they want.
Step in the arena and break the wall down
And the good p2p game communities are? Go ahead, tells us the great p2p game communities and how much better they are than everyone else. WoW, Rift, EVE.... yeah, those aren't so stellar.
At least there, you can ban the dumbasses with some effect. In F2P games, including NW, there are a-holes of every stripe (bots, chinese farmers, hackers/script kiddies) and nothing can be done to get rid of them. ANd that is on the very small off chance the company even bothers to ban anyone (which Cryptic especially is loathe to do). So while P2P communities might not always be great, F2P communities, in my experience, have always been terrible.i like how people say "dont PUG" i mean come on... the mmo community has gone to sh*t thats the lesson here.
its really that simple and really that sad
And the good p2p game communities are? Go ahead, tells us the great p2p game communities and how much better they are than everyone else. WoW, Rift, EVE.... yeah, those aren't so stellar.
At least there, you can ban the dumbasses with some effect. In F2P games, including NW, there are a-holes of every stripe (bots, chinese farmers, hackers/script kiddies) and nothing can be done to get rid of them. ANd that is on the very small off chance the company even bothers to ban anyone (which Cryptic especially is loathe to do). So while P2P communities might not always be great, F2P communities, in my experience, have always been terrible.Any game is going to ban the most blatant exploiters as an example, but other than that games don't ban people. It takes away the revenue generation. Trion doesn't ban for this sort of stuff in Rift. Companies rarely outright fire customers that might otherwise spend money with them. Being a dumbass isn't really a good enough reason, no matter what the payment model is.
And yet, the same spammers/bots/farmers/PvP farmers/hackers/script kiddies are all over NW with no way to get rid of them. Cryptic has banned very, very few. And when they do, they are right back. That is one of the main the problems with F2P games in general and NW in particular."Don't Let A Bad PUG Get Ya Down."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Generally, there's no talking in any of the group content in this game, pug-wise, so I'll agree the community is very anti-social. Still, I like how in most games, people like to blame the entire community for being bad when in reality, it was one person that really got under their skin.
Just ignore the person and finish the run. It's really not that big of a deal that you need to get so offended. People who get mad over little things like this on games have no life.
EQ 1, EQ 2, DAoC, AO, CoH, LoTRO, V:SoH and Wizard 101 all had / have very nice communities for the most part. Both EQ's had a good share of jerks too, more so than the other examples.
Best solution I found is as follows:
if someone ninja's
stop and inform them that you were supposed to have that loot
If they refuse to respond consider 2 options
1) sit there until the loot is given to you
2) if the rest of the group harasses you for being a "kid" for wanting what is yours, follow the group and ninja loot everything that drops. The team will learn ninjaing does not pay and you can laugh all the way to the bank.
And in 9 pages of this thread nobody came to the obvious conclusion:
Need/Greed is a moronic loot mechanic.
It's an open invitation for griefers and assholes of all sorts.
Actually shared group loot is a HORRIBLE and LAME idea to begin with.
Why the hell would they use this bullshit in a 2013 game?
Right, because Cryptic AGAIN failed to innovate.