One of the lead concepts in GW2 was to avoid the rush to end-game, so players could enjoy all the content. I think they were trying to cater to their hardcore fans, who simply enjoyed playing with their guilds in a growing world. The model did, to an extent, blow-up in their face, but I don't think they are to blame for anything but trying to innovate a little. They brought players together, similar to RIFT, which will inevitably lead to bringing the Zerg at lower levels.
In the end, it's all about your guild and your friends with whom you play. I think that is what makes these type of games fun. People should spend a little more time finding the right group of players to play alongside. It's a player decision that many choose to avoid altogether.
While I have a guild and group of gaming friends in whatever I play, this isn't the case for everyone. It shouldn't be assumed. Though I've never understood why someone would want to play a MMO solo, apparently games are supposed to accommodate them now a days...
Games like Defiance and Guild Wars 2 are labeled as "the games that ruined MMOs" for me.
In a normal MMO
"Hey, lets reach end game so we can have fun!"
In GW2/Defiance
"Hey, theres no end games, therefore nothing to achieve! Hey wtf?"
Rift made f2p at a good time. I'm still subbing to it, and now it is a b2p for me since I am a veteran.
It has the typical levels, it has somewhat a little more complex class build, and it has end game.
Why would I keep playing at high level, if theres nothing more to achieve? Yes it can be fun to go in and kill some mobs, do some PvP. But I never feel I am a hero, more just "equal to all other noobs".
The force of MMOs for me, is that I become better, tougher, stornger. Shiny loots where I think Oooo nice I can replace my sword / pants /whatever. Not like "Oh well, this weapon has slower speed but higher damage, vs this high speed and slower damage. What to pick? Meh doesnt matter".
I want end game, that doesnt need to require alot of sacrifice in the real world.
I think there are some that would say this is Western entitlement, and that this attitude is destructive to community.
You're complaining about lack of endgame in another game while playing GW2? Interesting.
I havent edited my signature :P
Ok, so now that you're on the GW2 wagon you decided you don't want endgame?
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it. You really don't think that WoW didn't soften content to widen their demographic, and that GW2 did follow suit, then take it a step further?
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
Originally posted by MortisRex Let me preface this by saying I play GW2. GW2 will never be held to the same standard as WoW because it does not have a sufficient fanbase. GW2 had 1.7 million in total sales. It had less than 800k in the US, less then 720k in EU, and less than 240k in asia (figures are from 5/03/2013 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/37350/guild-wars-2/ ). The sales figures are certainly solid, but they just aren't enough to make the industry suits want to get a dozen development studios together to throw bags of money at poorly contrived derivations of GW2's systems. Without seeing a bunch of crappy GW2 ripoffs, there isn't an uproar from disappointed fanboys pinning their hopes on the next "GW2" killer., without the fanboy uproar, no "GW2 is the Game that ruined MMOs"
I'm not one to look at sales or player bases and use that as quality. Lady Gaga went platinum. Twilight broke box office records. I'm not talking about success or killing WoW, I'm talking about games that cause permanent changes to the way people play MMORPGs thus altering the way that they're made.
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it. You really don't think that WoW didn't soften content to widen their demographic, and that GW2 did follow suit, then take it a step further?
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
I enjoyed the Avengers just fine, and it made tons of money. Though many comic book fans like myself weren't too fond of too many other comic book inspired films recently.
Lesson: make quality media, the money will come regardless.
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it. You really don't think that WoW didn't soften content to widen their demographic, and that GW2 did follow suit, then take it a step further?
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
I enjoyed the Avengers just fine, and it made tons of money. Though many comic book fans like myself weren't too fond of too many other comic book inspired films recently. Lesson: make quality media the money will come regardless.
True, But people will still go and See Fantastic 4 and Daredevil. people show with their cash and as long as it's coming in, they will continue making them.
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it. You really don't think that WoW didn't soften content to widen their demographic, and that GW2 did follow suit, then take it a step further?
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
I enjoyed the Avengers just fine, and it made tons of money. Though many comic book fans like myself weren't too fond of too many other comic book inspired films recently. Lesson: make quality media the money will come regardless.
True, But people will still go and See Fantastic 4 and Daredevil. people show with their cash and as long as it's coming in, they will continue making them.
And those people that see it aren't at fault? or because of those movies success, should a movie of Avengers quality not still be made? And after all is said and done, will some of the people that spent that money on Daredevil 2 not regret it later?
We both know you're right BTW. It just sucks to know something better is possible when people accept less.
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it. You really don't think that WoW didn't soften content to widen their demographic, and that GW2 did follow suit, then take it a step further?
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
I enjoyed the Avengers just fine, and it made tons of money. Though many comic book fans like myself weren't too fond of too many other comic book inspired films recently. Lesson: make quality media the money will come regardless.
True, But people will still go and See Fantastic 4 and Daredevil. people show with their cash and as long as it's coming in, they will continue making them.
And those people that see it aren't at fault? or because of those movies success, should a movie of Avengers quality not still be made?
And you hit the Nail on the head. It's the People's Fault. Same with the Zergers. I don't think we are too far apart. it's easy to say a game is at fault, but it all boils don't to the people doing it.
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it. You really don't think that WoW didn't soften content to widen their demographic, and that GW2 did follow suit, then take it a step further?
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
I enjoyed the Avengers just fine, and it made tons of money. Though many comic book fans like myself weren't too fond of too many other comic book inspired films recently. Lesson: make quality media the money will come regardless.
True, But people will still go and See Fantastic 4 and Daredevil. people show with their cash and as long as it's coming in, they will continue making them.
And those people that see it aren't at fault? or because of those movies success, should a movie of Avengers quality not still be made?
And you hit the Nail on the head. It's the People's Fault. Same with the Zergers. I don't think we are too far apart. it's easy to say a game is at fault, but it all boils don't to the people doing it.
I still blame the developers that cash out on it, when we know they're capable of making something truly great again...but yeah...business is business.
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it. You really don't think that WoW didn't soften content to widen their demographic, and that GW2 did follow suit, then take it a step further?
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
I enjoyed the Avengers just fine, and it made tons of money. Though many comic book fans like myself weren't too fond of too many other comic book inspired films recently. Lesson: make quality media the money will come regardless.
True, But people will still go and See Fantastic 4 and Daredevil. people show with their cash and as long as it's coming in, they will continue making them.
And those people that see it aren't at fault? or because of those movies success, should a movie of Avengers quality not still be made?
And you hit the Nail on the head. It's the People's Fault. Same with the Zergers. I don't think we are too far apart. it's easy to say a game is at fault, but it all boils don't to the people doing it.
I still blame the developers that cash out on it, when we know they're capable of making something truly great again...but yeah...business is business.
Capable or not. People will STILL find a Way to Zerg to the End.
Originally posted by MortisRex Let me preface this by saying I play GW2. GW2 will never be held to the same standard as WoW because it does not have a sufficient fanbase. GW2 had 1.7 million in total sales. It had less than 800k in the US, less then 720k in EU, and less than 240k in asia (figures are from 5/03/2013 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/37350/guild-wars-2/ ). The sales figures are certainly solid, but they just aren't enough to make the industry suits want to get a dozen development studios together to throw bags of money at poorly contrived derivations of GW2's systems. Without seeing a bunch of crappy GW2 ripoffs, there isn't an uproar from disappointed fanboys pinning their hopes on the next "GW2" killer., without the fanboy uproar, no "GW2 is the Game that ruined MMOs"
That sounds more of a Hater Troll response then the actual topic about Zerging.
My entire post did nothing but address that specific topic. I address it with specific facts and figures. Never once did I cast disparagements on the game. Never once did I say anything negative about GW2, anywhere.
Originally posted by MortisRex Let me preface this by saying I play GW2. GW2 will never be held to the same standard as WoW because it does not have a sufficient fanbase. GW2 had 1.7 million in total sales. It had less than 800k in the US, less then 720k in EU, and less than 240k in asia (figures are from 5/03/2013 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/37350/guild-wars-2/ ). The sales figures are certainly solid, but they just aren't enough to make the industry suits want to get a dozen development studios together to throw bags of money at poorly contrived derivations of GW2's systems. Without seeing a bunch of crappy GW2 ripoffs, there isn't an uproar from disappointed fanboys pinning their hopes on the next "GW2" killer., without the fanboy uproar, no "GW2 is the Game that ruined MMOs"
That sounds more of a Hater Troll response then the actual topic about Zerging.
My entire post did nothing but address that specific topic. I address it with specific facts and figures. Never once did I cast disparagements on the game. Never once did I say anything negative about GW2, anywhere.
Sorry, that was really good input.
I feel like I've already seen a change in how people play, others may not have, but I feel I have for sure. Sometimes that's all it takes to influence the next game or two, because it can force them to start tailoring future content to that play style. As far as it being viable for developers to make entire products ripping off GW2, or "GW2 Clones" - I don't think we'll see that outright. It's the minor influences the game could have on smaller systems that scare me, after all, with a little thought it becomes pretty apparent that many of the "awesome features" of GW2 were actually Anet's way of cutting corners and then glorifying it.
Now that GW2 has been out a while and I've moved on to other newer games, I've already noticed a difference in how people are approaching gameplay. For example, adapting the zerg tactics from GW2 WvW and dungeons into an "every man for him self, everybody burn the boss carelessly" similar to a keep lord or boss from GW2, and applying those tactics to dungeon bosses in other games. It seems like even killing add waves is too much for people anymore. I noticed a similar "simplying" (to put it nicely) in play styles after WoW, that bled into other games of the time, and has obviously lead to developers having to adapt newer games to that weaker (IMO) playstyle.
It's been said by many older school MMORPG gamers that WoW is responsible for the decline of quality in the genre.
Feeling like GW2 took the simplification of the MMORPG a step further by taking out class roles and other major elements that have been MMO standards even before WoW...I wonder, will GW2 be regarded with as much hatred by future gamers as WoW is now a days? Will it's effects on industry trends be as longterm?
I strongly disagree with this. Before WoW there was barely any quality to begin with. MMOs were a mess full of bugs with boring mechanics which only people who played MMOs as a full-time job enjoyed/
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by MortisRex Let me preface this by saying I play GW2. GW2 will never be held to the same standard as WoW because it does not have a sufficient fanbase. GW2 had 1.7 million in total sales. It had less than 800k in the US, less then 720k in EU, and less than 240k in asia (figures are from 5/03/2013 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/37350/guild-wars-2/ ). The sales figures are certainly solid, but they just aren't enough to make the industry suits want to get a dozen development studios together to throw bags of money at poorly contrived derivations of GW2's systems. Without seeing a bunch of crappy GW2 ripoffs, there isn't an uproar from disappointed fanboys pinning their hopes on the next "GW2" killer., without the fanboy uproar, no "GW2 is the Game that ruined MMOs"
That sounds more of a Hater Troll response then the actual topic about Zerging.
My entire post did nothing but address that specific topic. I address it with specific facts and figures. Never once did I cast disparagements on the game. Never once did I say anything negative about GW2, anywhere.
Sorry, that was really good input.
I feel like I've already seen a change in how people play, others may not have, but I feel I have for sure. Sometimes that's all it takes to influence the next game or two, because it can force them to start tailoring future content to that play style. As far as it being viable for developers to make entire products ripping off GW2, or "GW2 Clones" - I don't think we'll see that outright. It's the minor influences the game could have on smaller systems that scare me, after all, with a little thought it becomes pretty apparent that many of the "awesome features" of GW2 were actually Anet's way of cutting corners and then glorifying it.
I thought it was a really good question to look at, because of the factors that go into creating the love/hate relationship between players and their games because, before a game can "ruin" a genre, it typically has to be the trend setter, which leads to the popularity, which leads into the poor knock-off cycle, which leads into fan hate. It's very interesting from a sociological standpoint.
Oh, don't feel you have to apologize to me. You didn't feel the need to engage in personal attacks, flames, or name calling towards a complete stranger on the internet. You have no reason to apologize. I like thought provoking questions. I don't like the bullies that rear their ugly heads every now and then, but incivility is the price we pay sometimes for the free-flowing exchange of ideals.
Now that GW2 has been out a while and I've moved on to other newer games, I've already noticed a difference in how people are approaching gameplay. For example, adapting the zerg tactics from GW2 WvW and dungeons into an "every man for him self, everybody burn the boss carelessly" similar to a keep lord or boss from GW2, and applying those tactics to dungeon bosses in other games. It seems like even killing add waves is too much for people anymore. I noticed a similar "simplying" (to put it nicely) in play styles after WoW, that bled into other games of the time, and has obviously lead to developers having to adapt newer games to that weaker (IMO) playstyle.
It's been said by many older school MMORPG gamers that WoW is responsible for the decline of quality in the genre.
Feeling like GW2 took the simplification of the MMORPG a step further by taking out class roles and other major elements that have been MMO standards even before WoW...I wonder, will GW2 be regarded with as much hatred by future gamers as WoW is now a days? Will it's effects on industry trends be as longterm?
some mmo gamers should keep their opinions to themself imo
without wow mmos would be niche games. no matter if you like it or not, if wow will be remembered, it will be remembered as the game making mmos big. not destroying it.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Originally posted by MortisRex Let me preface this by saying I play GW2. GW2 will never be held to the same standard as WoW because it does not have a sufficient fanbase. GW2 had 1.7 million in total sales. It had less than 800k in the US, less then 720k in EU, and less than 240k in asia (figures are from 5/03/2013 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/37350/guild-wars-2/ ). The sales figures are certainly solid, but they just aren't enough to make the industry suits want to get a dozen development studios together to throw bags of money at poorly contrived derivations of GW2's systems. Without seeing a bunch of crappy GW2 ripoffs, there isn't an uproar from disappointed fanboys pinning their hopes on the next "GW2" killer., without the fanboy uproar, no "GW2 is the Game that ruined MMOs"
That sounds more of a Hater Troll response then the actual topic about Zerging.
My entire post did nothing but address that specific topic. I address it with specific facts and figures. Never once did I cast disparagements on the game. Never once did I say anything negative about GW2, anywhere.
Originally posted by MortisRex Let me preface this by saying I play GW2. GW2 will never be held to the same standard as WoW because it does not have a sufficient fanbase. GW2 had 1.7 million in total sales. It had less than 800k in the US, less then 720k in EU, and less than 240k in asia (figures are from 5/03/2013 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/37350/guild-wars-2/ ). The sales figures are certainly solid, but they just aren't enough to make the industry suits want to get a dozen development studios together to throw bags of money at poorly contrived derivations of GW2's systems. Without seeing a bunch of crappy GW2 ripoffs, there isn't an uproar from disappointed fanboys pinning their hopes on the next "GW2" killer., without the fanboy uproar, no "GW2 is the Game that ruined MMOs"
That sounds more of a Hater Troll response then the actual topic about Zerging.
My entire post did nothing but address that specific topic. I address it with specific facts and figures. Never once did I cast disparagements on the game. Never once did I say anything negative about GW2, anywhere.
Sorry, that was really good input.
I feel like I've already seen a change in how people play, others may not have, but I feel I have for sure. Sometimes that's all it takes to influence the next game or two, because it can force them to start tailoring future content to that play style. As far as it being viable for developers to make entire products ripping off GW2, or "GW2 Clones" - I don't think we'll see that outright. It's the minor influences the game could have on smaller systems that scare me, after all, with a little thought it becomes pretty apparent that many of the "awesome features" of GW2 were actually Anet's way of cutting corners and then glorifying it.
I thought it was a really good question to look at, because of the factors that go into creating the love/hate relationship between players and their games because, before a game can "ruin" a genre, it typically has to be the trend setter, which leads to the popularity, which leads into the poor knock-off cycle, which leads into fan hate. It's very interesting from a sociological standpoint.
Oh, don't feel you have to apologize to me. You didn't feel the need to engage in personal attacks, flames, or name calling towards a complete stranger on the internet. You have no reason to apologize. I like thought provoking questions. I don't like the bullies that rear their ugly heads every now and then, but incivility is the price we pay sometimes for the free-flowing exchange of ideals.
Which is what most of my posts are. I don't make a statement, I ask a question, give my personal stance on it and let it fly. I want to see what kind of gamers are out there, if not for my personal understanding of why industry trends happen, but just because it's plain interesting.
Now that GW2 has been out a while and I've moved on to other newer games, I've already noticed a difference in how people are approaching gameplay. For example, adapting the zerg tactics from GW2 WvW and dungeons into an "every man for him self, everybody burn the boss carelessly" similar to a keep lord or boss from GW2, and applying those tactics to dungeon bosses in other games. It seems like even killing add waves is too much for people anymore. I noticed a similar "simplying" (to put it nicely) in play styles after WoW, that bled into other games of the time, and has obviously lead to developers having to adapt newer games to that weaker (IMO) playstyle.
It's been said by many older school MMORPG gamers that WoW is responsible for the decline of quality in the genre.
Feeling like GW2 took the simplification of the MMORPG a step further by taking out class roles and other major elements that have been MMO standards even before WoW...I wonder, will GW2 be regarded with as much hatred by future gamers as WoW is now a days? Will it's effects on industry trends be as longterm?
some mmo gamers should keep their opinions to themself imo
without wow mmos would be niche games. no matter if you like it or not, if wow will be remembered, it will be remembered as the game making mmos big. not destroying it.
I'm trying to figure out why only people that agree with you deserve an opinion.
Now that GW2 has been out a while and I've moved on to other newer games, I've already noticed a difference in how people are approaching gameplay. For example, adapting the zerg tactics from GW2 WvW and dungeons into an "every man for him self, everybody burn the boss carelessly" similar to a keep lord or boss from GW2, and applying those tactics to dungeon bosses in other games. It seems like even killing add waves is too much for people anymore. I noticed a similar "simplying" (to put it nicely) in play styles after WoW, that bled into other games of the time, and has obviously lead to developers having to adapt newer games to that weaker (IMO) playstyle.
It's been said by many older school MMORPG gamers that WoW is responsible for the decline of quality in the genre.
Feeling like GW2 took the simplification of the MMORPG a step further by taking out class roles and other major elements that have been MMO standards even before WoW...I wonder, will GW2 be regarded with as much hatred by future gamers as WoW is now a days? Will it's effects on industry trends be as longterm?
I strongly disagree with this. Before WoW there was barely any quality to begin with. MMOs were a mess full of bugs with boring mechanics which only people who played MMOs as a full-time job enjoyed/
On the topic of zergs I really don't think you can blame solely GW2. Maybe the system they implemented encourages it more I don't know, but still falls on the players. In all the games I've played the strategy that was easiest was use of overwhelming numbers, especially when quickly gathering a group of players to complete a task who are completely unknown to you
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
All I can quote is the scene from Billy Madison concernign this post where the OP is Billy and I'll play the part of the principle:
Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Billy Madison: Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
And I'll agree with Billy. Not only would a simple, "I disagree" work here, but some reason as to why might be good too. Instead you're just flaming, and hopefully your post gets removed. Thanks for your lack of contribution.
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
I disagree. I will give EvE as an example again. Its a vast universe with ~40-50k players online at all times and yet the good combats are indeed the zerg fests e.g. when 2 alliances collide for a given territory
P.S: EvE predates WoW. So yeah as the guy before said, Don't blame the game, blame the players.
You can't compare EvE to either of these games. Man, I'm starting to regret this post.
what he said.
when you have no raid size limits you obviously will want to bring strength in numbers.
there's no reason a big alliance will fight a small alliance with equal number of combatants.
Exactly. EvE is a great game, but it's gameplay is nowhere simliar to a fantasy, on land, mmorpg. I have trouble believing that playing GW2 is going to effect how players approach EvE. For the most part this post was concerning GW2's impact on future games, not past releases. The comparison doesn't fit for a number of reasons.
Comments
While I have a guild and group of gaming friends in whatever I play, this isn't the case for everyone. It shouldn't be assumed. Though I've never understood why someone would want to play a MMO solo, apparently games are supposed to accommodate them now a days...
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Ok, so now that you're on the GW2 wagon you decided you don't want endgame?
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Good Point. But do you think Any product does NOT have money in Mind? They are businesses, that's what they do. What YOU do with that product is the bottom line. you can zerg through ANY game, Popular or not. Businesses will cater to the Money EVERY time. But it still boils down to the Players. Don't let others spoil your ride.
I'm not one to look at sales or player bases and use that as quality. Lady Gaga went platinum. Twilight broke box office records. I'm not talking about success or killing WoW, I'm talking about games that cause permanent changes to the way people play MMORPGs thus altering the way that they're made.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
I enjoyed the Avengers just fine, and it made tons of money. Though many comic book fans like myself weren't too fond of too many other comic book inspired films recently.
Lesson: make quality media, the money will come regardless.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
True, But people will still go and See Fantastic 4 and Daredevil. people show with their cash and as long as it's coming in, they will continue making them.
And those people that see it aren't at fault? or because of those movies success, should a movie of Avengers quality not still be made? And after all is said and done, will some of the people that spent that money on Daredevil 2 not regret it later?
We both know you're right BTW. It just sucks to know something better is possible when people accept less.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
And you hit the Nail on the head. It's the People's Fault. Same with the Zergers. I don't think we are too far apart. it's easy to say a game is at fault, but it all boils don't to the people doing it.
I still blame the developers that cash out on it, when we know they're capable of making something truly great again...but yeah...business is business.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Capable or not. People will STILL find a Way to Zerg to the End.
Lets just agree to disagree.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
simple answer : no. gw2 will never come even close to WoW's status.
for me it will always be "the game where noone talks.ever"
The topic is "Will GW2 replace WoW as the "Game that ruined MMOs?".
My entire post did nothing but address that specific topic. I address it with specific facts and figures. Never once did I cast disparagements on the game. Never once did I say anything negative about GW2, anywhere.
Sorry, that was really good input.
I feel like I've already seen a change in how people play, others may not have, but I feel I have for sure. Sometimes that's all it takes to influence the next game or two, because it can force them to start tailoring future content to that play style. As far as it being viable for developers to make entire products ripping off GW2, or "GW2 Clones" - I don't think we'll see that outright. It's the minor influences the game could have on smaller systems that scare me, after all, with a little thought it becomes pretty apparent that many of the "awesome features" of GW2 were actually Anet's way of cutting corners and then glorifying it.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
I strongly disagree with this. Before WoW there was barely any quality to begin with. MMOs were a mess full of bugs with boring mechanics which only people who played MMOs as a full-time job enjoyed/
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I thought it was a really good question to look at, because of the factors that go into creating the love/hate relationship between players and their games because, before a game can "ruin" a genre, it typically has to be the trend setter, which leads to the popularity, which leads into the poor knock-off cycle, which leads into fan hate. It's very interesting from a sociological standpoint.
Oh, don't feel you have to apologize to me. You didn't feel the need to engage in personal attacks, flames, or name calling towards a complete stranger on the internet. You have no reason to apologize. I like thought provoking questions. I don't like the bullies that rear their ugly heads every now and then, but incivility is the price we pay sometimes for the free-flowing exchange of ideals.
some mmo gamers should keep their opinions to themself imo
without wow mmos would be niche games. no matter if you like it or not, if wow will be remembered, it will be remembered as the game making mmos big. not destroying it.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
You are Correct and I take back my comment.
Which is what most of my posts are. I don't make a statement, I ask a question, give my personal stance on it and let it fly. I want to see what kind of gamers are out there, if not for my personal understanding of why industry trends happen, but just because it's plain interesting.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
I'm trying to figure out why only people that agree with you deserve an opinion.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
And I strongly disagree with this statement.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
SUP
On the topic of zergs I really don't think you can blame solely GW2. Maybe the system they implemented encourages it more I don't know, but still falls on the players. In all the games I've played the strategy that was easiest was use of overwhelming numbers, especially when quickly gathering a group of players to complete a task who are completely unknown to you
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
And I'll agree with Billy. Not only would a simple, "I disagree" work here, but some reason as to why might be good too. Instead you're just flaming, and hopefully your post gets removed. Thanks for your lack of contribution.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Exactly. EvE is a great game, but it's gameplay is nowhere simliar to a fantasy, on land, mmorpg. I have trouble believing that playing GW2 is going to effect how players approach EvE. For the most part this post was concerning GW2's impact on future games, not past releases. The comparison doesn't fit for a number of reasons.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/