The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
Pretty much this. From the earliest MMOs, one thing has always rung true. If something can be zerged. It will be zerged.
I have lost count of the encounters in EQ, EQ2, WoW, AoC, LOTRO and so on where strategy was thrown in the bin and the raid just burnt a mob down before the script kicked in.
Players will always go with the path of least resistance. It is up to developers to stop that.
I as well, and I know what you mean, sometimes it is best or smart to just tell a group to burn a single target to get that threat out of the way asap. You've raided/ran EQ2 and LOTRO content so you've been through the roughest stuff offered pretty much. Even in that content it is sometimes needed. I'm talking about parties wiping in newer games because they're trying to burn a boss and ignore adds. Not parties using it successfully, or as a valid, temporary tactic, or when you obviously outnumber and people can just relax and fire at will. I played GW2, and I really feel like people are just trying to keep lord everything, which is why I'm asking if GW2 is the cause...and if it's going to have longterm effects on future development. You're right, developers are the only ones that can stop it.
I strongly disagree with this. Before WoW there was barely any quality to begin with. MMOs were a mess full of bugs with boring mechanics which only people who played MMOs as a full-time job enjoyed/
There is so much wrong here, it almost makes a right... but not quite.
I keep getting all this, blame the people crap, but people buy what they're told to buy way too often. It's fact that the majority of people will buy what is marketed at their demographic over personal preference. People didn't suggest the changes to the format made by GW2. GW2 came up with them, (as I've said before, it's my belief these things were done just to cut corners in development) such as the lack of trinity, the zergy no skill dungeons, the lack of loot diversity. I think these things were done because they're lazy, not because people were asking for it. Just like WoW dumbed down it's content to bring in a wider variety of players, to mainstream the MMO, if you will. The developers and producers are responsible for what gets made and marketed, and there are MANY trends engineered by the industry, and not brought about by the consumer through popularity.
If any of these things, particularly the lack of gear diversity, were asked for...it was by WoW players. In other words, if the changes made to the newest dumbed down MMO were requested, it was by the players of the previous most dumbed down MMO.
Again, I'll say Risk vs Reward ruined MMOs. Everything is dumbed down for the masses for the almighty dollar. If something is so easy to get that everyone has it, it means nothing to people. I mean this is my opinion, but I am sure others feel the same way. When I got my click stick in EQ I felt like I accomplished something. I had my click stick way before the majority of the players. It made me feel good. I took the time and worked to get that item. Then the time came and alts of third cousins of alts had the click stick it didn't mean a thing because everyone had it. It is the same in real life when you see the 300,000 car speed past your 30,000 car. If everyone drove the 300,000 it wouldn't mean anything, just another KIA. Trust me I am not screaming bring back the crapp we had to go through in EQ, but there has to be a happy medium not polar opposites like we have today.
Yeah I agree. I like rare powerful items in MMOs.
I think there needs to be a happy medium in the future. Tokens and so forth to get gear to be competitive within a reasonable timeframe, but then the carrot on the stick with rare powerful items.
I think SoE are one of the few developers who understand that, so I expect there to be something along those lines in EQNext.
Options, options are the answer to everything. For people that want to trade items for gear sets, give them that. For people that want to delve for rare drops like back in EQ. Give them that. For people that want to get gear from dailies, give them that. Just get stupid with it. You can't have too much. 1000's of items, why not? Why not have structured pvp, battleground style pvp, open world pvp, duels...all in the same game? Why not have dungeon crawls, open world ones, instanced ones, skirmishes from lotro and neverwinter, raids, 3 mans, 6 mans, 12 mans, 24 mans, f*** it, 48 man raids (for the zergers).
I realize it takes time in development, but they can please everyone. The first company to do it will be filthy rich. It's that simple.
And here is my reasoning. The F2P/B2P model is going to destroy this industry completely, by not rewarding loyalty to any given game. Whenever I have read a post that describes how the p2p model is unfounded and dying, because look at GW2 it made it work., makes me sad. All I ever really hear is:
Player: "WOW can I have all your hard work for free?"
WOW: "No Player you can't. WOW has to employ many people to make a virtual world that has to keep growing in order to keep other little players like you happy."
Player: "But GW2 does it, and every other game is doing it."
I played GW2 till about lvl 30 and uninstalled it. Look at Trion worlds, I like their games they have an original feel to them. Going F2P posted on forums, big hoorah, hell I even thought about going back. A couple days later, massive layoffs at Trion worlds.
And for me the biggest issues I see with the F2P/B2p models, is the fact that there is a portion of the development, coding, and game playing portions of the games budget going to:
How do we design this game to the make player spend more money in our cash shop.
F2P/B2P is not a new model, I have seen this before and it does work I am not denying this either. Drug dealers have been doing this since the beginning of time, give it to them for free at first, and then watch the money role in. I just think it is the more underhanded way of doing business.
In no way, am I speaking on the behalf of anyone but myself here, those names were used for illustration only.
And here is my reasoning. The F2P/B2P model is going to destroy this industry completely, by not rewarding loyalty to any given game. Whenever I have read a post that describes how the p2p model is unfounded and dying, because look at GW2 it made it work., makes me sad. All I ever really hear is:
Player: "WOW can I have all your hard work for free?"
WOW: "No Player you can't. WOW has to employ many people to make a virtual world that has to keep growing in order to keep other little players like you happy."
Player: "But GW2 does it, and every other game is doing it."
I played GW2 till about lvl 30 and uninstalled it. Look at Trion worlds, I like their games they have an original feel to them. Going F2P posted on forums, big hoorah, hell I even thought about going back. A couple days later, massive layoffs at Trion worlds.
And for me the biggest issues I see with the F2P/B2p models, is the fact that there is a portion of the development, coding, and game playing portions of the games budget to:
How do we design this game to the make player spend more money in our cash shop.
F2P/B2P is not a new model, I have seen this before and it does work I am not denying this either. Drug dealers have been doing this since the beginning of time, give it to them for free at first, and then watch the money role in. I just think it is the more underhanded way of doing business.
In no way, am I speaking on the behalf of anyone but myself here, those names were used for illustration only.
Yup. The developers are starting to think, heck, if you guys don't care about an in depth game, we might as well just push out 2 or 3 cash grab f2p games a year instead of spending more in development to make less. Another problem here, is that for developers to have this attitude they must really doubt their abilities.
Yes, GW2 is just the consequence of WoW effect on the market, turning all new MMOs much less interesting than playing multiplayer in Battlefield or Call of Duty, or Halo.
Comments
I as well, and I know what you mean, sometimes it is best or smart to just tell a group to burn a single target to get that threat out of the way asap. You've raided/ran EQ2 and LOTRO content so you've been through the roughest stuff offered pretty much. Even in that content it is sometimes needed. I'm talking about parties wiping in newer games because they're trying to burn a boss and ignore adds. Not parties using it successfully, or as a valid, temporary tactic, or when you obviously outnumber and people can just relax and fire at will. I played GW2, and I really feel like people are just trying to keep lord everything, which is why I'm asking if GW2 is the cause...and if it's going to have longterm effects on future development. You're right, developers are the only ones that can stop it.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
There is so much wrong here, it almost makes a right... but not quite.
Options, options are the answer to everything. For people that want to trade items for gear sets, give them that. For people that want to delve for rare drops like back in EQ. Give them that. For people that want to get gear from dailies, give them that. Just get stupid with it. You can't have too much. 1000's of items, why not? Why not have structured pvp, battleground style pvp, open world pvp, duels...all in the same game? Why not have dungeon crawls, open world ones, instanced ones, skirmishes from lotro and neverwinter, raids, 3 mans, 6 mans, 12 mans, 24 mans, f*** it, 48 man raids (for the zergers).
I realize it takes time in development, but they can please everyone. The first company to do it will be filthy rich. It's that simple.
OVERWHELM US AGAIN.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Imho, yes.
And here is my reasoning. The F2P/B2P model is going to destroy this industry completely, by not rewarding loyalty to any given game. Whenever I have read a post that describes how the p2p model is unfounded and dying, because look at GW2 it made it work., makes me sad. All I ever really hear is:
Player: "WOW can I have all your hard work for free?"
WOW: "No Player you can't. WOW has to employ many people to make a virtual world that has to keep growing in order to keep other little players like you happy."
Player: "But GW2 does it, and every other game is doing it."
I played GW2 till about lvl 30 and uninstalled it. Look at Trion worlds, I like their games they have an original feel to them. Going F2P posted on forums, big hoorah, hell I even thought about going back. A couple days later, massive layoffs at Trion worlds.
And for me the biggest issues I see with the F2P/B2p models, is the fact that there is a portion of the development, coding, and game playing portions of the games budget going to:
How do we design this game to the make player spend more money in our cash shop.
F2P/B2P is not a new model, I have seen this before and it does work I am not denying this either. Drug dealers have been doing this since the beginning of time, give it to them for free at first, and then watch the money role in. I just think it is the more underhanded way of doing business.
In no way, am I speaking on the behalf of anyone but myself here, those names were used for illustration only.
Yup. The developers are starting to think, heck, if you guys don't care about an in depth game, we might as well just push out 2 or 3 cash grab f2p games a year instead of spending more in development to make less. Another problem here, is that for developers to have this attitude they must really doubt their abilities.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Yes, GW2 is just the consequence of WoW effect on the market, turning all new MMOs much less interesting than playing multiplayer in Battlefield or Call of Duty, or Halo.
A lot of tinfoil and rose-tinted glasses in this thread.
Hate and bitterness too.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky