While a wipe would be the best bet for them from a brand satisfaction standpoint, they have backed themselves into a corner by the whole beta/live cash store double blind.
If they don't wipe most of the exploit gains remain and their brand takes a pretty major hit
If they do wipe they must do a line by line audit of every transaction of the game to ensure that legitimate customers get refunded for wiped digital purchases...that's a lot of man-hours
or they could go for option C and do a wipe with no refund at all and hope they have enough of a paying player base on the other side
They are more or less in a loose/loose scenario and they put themselves in it.
It wouldn't be hard, if you go to your wallet for Zen at PWE they show every transaction of transferring Zen to Neverwinter. They just need to revert those Zen back. All of your Zen for money purchases are easily confirmed.
Giffen, you clearly don't understand. They have to read up on every character manually, they have to hire thousands of typists tp put it all on paper and even more people to read it all and then even more people to fix it. Manually...one by one...takes ages...
Kidding ofc, I think some people don't really understand the ease a simple or even complex database can bring you.
While a wipe would be the best bet for them from a brand satisfaction standpoint, they have backed themselves into a corner by the whole beta/live cash store double blind.
If they don't wipe most of the exploit gains remain and their brand takes a pretty major hit
If they do wipe they must do a line by line audit of every transaction of the game to ensure that legitimate customers get refunded for wiped digital purchases...that's a lot of man-hours
or they could go for option C and do a wipe with no refund at all and hope they have enough of a paying player base on the other side
They are more or less in a loose/loose scenario and they put themselves in it.
It wouldn't be hard, if you go to your wallet for Zen at PWE they show every transaction of transferring Zen to Neverwinter. They just need to revert those Zen back. All of your Zen for money purchases are easily confirmed.
Yeh, 5 devs going through about 10,000,000 zen transactions one by one is a simple task.
Umm it's all in a database. They don't hand type in the Zen transaction. It could be easily automated.
While a wipe would be the best bet for them from a brand satisfaction standpoint, they have backed themselves into a corner by the whole beta/live cash store double blind.
If they don't wipe most of the exploit gains remain and their brand takes a pretty major hit
If they do wipe they must do a line by line audit of every transaction of the game to ensure that legitimate customers get refunded for wiped digital purchases...that's a lot of man-hours
or they could go for option C and do a wipe with no refund at all and hope they have enough of a paying player base on the other side
They are more or less in a loose/loose scenario and they put themselves in it.
It wouldn't be hard, if you go to your wallet for Zen at PWE they show every transaction of transferring Zen to Neverwinter. They just need to revert those Zen back. All of your Zen for money purchases are easily confirmed.
true but according to the twitter feed, apparently not something they are considering. My guess is they are going to try to PR spin
While a wipe would be the best bet for them from a brand satisfaction standpoint, they have backed themselves into a corner by the whole beta/live cash store double blind.
If they don't wipe most of the exploit gains remain and their brand takes a pretty major hit
If they do wipe they must do a line by line audit of every transaction of the game to ensure that legitimate customers get refunded for wiped digital purchases...that's a lot of man-hours
or they could go for option C and do a wipe with no refund at all and hope they have enough of a paying player base on the other side
They are more or less in a loose/loose scenario and they put themselves in it.
It wouldn't be hard, if you go to your wallet for Zen at PWE they show every transaction of transferring Zen to Neverwinter. They just need to revert those Zen back. All of your Zen for money purchases are easily confirmed.
True enough.
But then PWE sit with a Zen/AD Exchange crammed full of Zen offers, and they have to wait for all that to clear before they start making money selling fresh Zen to those Zen sellers...
And this time around, the amount of AD chasing Zen on the Exchange is going to be a LOT lower, because quite a few of the exploits from 2 weeks ago have been fixed...
While a wipe would be the best bet for them from a brand satisfaction standpoint, they have backed themselves into a corner by the whole beta/live cash store double blind.
If they don't wipe most of the exploit gains remain and their brand takes a pretty major hit
If they do wipe they must do a line by line audit of every transaction of the game to ensure that legitimate customers get refunded for wiped digital purchases...that's a lot of man-hours
or they could go for option C and do a wipe with no refund at all and hope they have enough of a paying player base on the other side
They are more or less in a loose/loose scenario and they put themselves in it.
It wouldn't be hard, if you go to your wallet for Zen at PWE they show every transaction of transferring Zen to Neverwinter. They just need to revert those Zen back. All of your Zen for money purchases are easily confirmed.
Yeh, 5 devs going through about 10,000,000 zen transactions one by one is a simple task.
Umm it's all in a database. They don't hand type in the Zen transaction. It could be easily automated.
Something like that wouldn't weed out which are genuine transactions and which are from the exploit though.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
said it in the other thread and i say it here. a wipe would make a lot of people to quit the game. one of them is me. just made it to 60 with my mage and the cleric is 54. i cant be bothered to lvl those chars again. and i don't care about the fake ad in the game now. just wipe the ad or w/e if u want.
You just leveled your character and with the bug the players have tons of goodies which your leveled character will never have. What is the point of having a 60 character when it can actually never have anything that others will continue to have without a full wipe?
Just think over it. These kinds of exploits are so deep that even if you try you cannot wipe the exploit. I am confident that it is impossible to track down that AD or track down all the items sold or traded and all the gold made.
Keep your level 60 character.
That is obsolete in comparison to the stuff other people have.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
While a wipe would be the best bet for them from a brand satisfaction standpoint, they have backed themselves into a corner by the whole beta/live cash store double blind.
If they don't wipe most of the exploit gains remain and their brand takes a pretty major hit
If they do wipe they must do a line by line audit of every transaction of the game to ensure that legitimate customers get refunded for wiped digital purchases...that's a lot of man-hours
or they could go for option C and do a wipe with no refund at all and hope they have enough of a paying player base on the other side
They are more or less in a loose/loose scenario and they put themselves in it.
It wouldn't be hard, if you go to your wallet for Zen at PWE they show every transaction of transferring Zen to Neverwinter. They just need to revert those Zen back. All of your Zen for money purchases are easily confirmed.
Yeh, 5 devs going through about 10,000,000 zen transactions one by one is a simple task.
Umm it's all in a database. They don't hand type in the Zen transaction. It could be easily automated.
They'd still have to figure out what exactly they are going to search for in the database specifically since I doubt they accounted for this happening. It might not be so easily automated. If they make the search of the database too simplistic they risk banning people who didn't use the exploit. It's a lot more complex a problem than something that is just automated. Maybe it's sophisticated enough to track the specific exploit and ban people who used it. What if someone did it by accident, do they still get banned? Do you only ban repeat offenders, people who used the exploit to a various degree, or do you ban everyone who used it? It's a lot more complicated a problem than just being easily automated.
While a wipe would be the best bet for them from a brand satisfaction standpoint, they have backed themselves into a corner by the whole beta/live cash store double blind.
If they don't wipe most of the exploit gains remain and their brand takes a pretty major hit
If they do wipe they must do a line by line audit of every transaction of the game to ensure that legitimate customers get refunded for wiped digital purchases...that's a lot of man-hours
or they could go for option C and do a wipe with no refund at all and hope they have enough of a paying player base on the other side
They are more or less in a loose/loose scenario and they put themselves in it.
Would they not have a record of Zen purchased from the web site. Just refund that. I am sure someone can work out an algorithm for that.
Zen pruchased with AD would not count since that as an in game transaction for in game items. They would just need to refund Zen purchased with real currency.
said it in the other thread and i say it here. a wipe would make a lot of people to quit the game. one of them is me. just made it to 60 with my mage and the cleric is 54. i cant be bothered to lvl those chars again. and i don't care about the fake ad in the game now. just wipe the ad or w/e if u want.
You just leveled your character and with the bug the players have tons of goodies which your leveled character will never have. What is the point of having a 60 character when it can actually never have anything that others will continue to have without a full wipe?
Just think over it. These kinds of exploits are so deep that even if you try you cannot wipe the exploit. I am confident that it is impossible to track down that AD or track down all the items sold or traded and all the gold made.
Keep your level 60 character.
That is obsolete in comparison to the stuff other people have.
i dont give a f*** about what the others have. the point of havin a lvl 60 char is to do the epic dg with my mates. and what exactly are the things that those ppl have that i can never have?
said it in the other thread and i say it here. a wipe would make a lot of people to quit the game. one of them is me. just made it to 60 with my mage and the cleric is 54. i cant be bothered to lvl those chars again. and i don't care about the fake ad in the game now. just wipe the ad or w/e if u want.
You just leveled your character and with the bug the players have tons of goodies which your leveled character will never have. What is the point of having a 60 character when it can actually never have anything that others will continue to have without a full wipe?
Just think over it. These kinds of exploits are so deep that even if you try you cannot wipe the exploit. I am confident that it is impossible to track down that AD or track down all the items sold or traded and all the gold made.
Keep your level 60 character.
That is obsolete in comparison to the stuff other people have.
i dont give a f*** about what the others have. the point of havin a lvl 60 char is to do the epic dg with my mates. and what exactly are the things that those ppl have that i can never have?
this wipe talkin is just bullsh**.
Don't worry, as they have made very clear on twitter, there will be no wipe. We just have to wait and see what they will do (are doing). If you didn't use any exploit it seems from what we know now that you will not be affected in any direct way.
Some of us may wish for a wipe, they said that this will not happen.
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
What about all the player's starting later?They don't care about people that have played for a year and have million's of ad.No,they care about the fact that they can't afford the prices on the gear in the ah because it's controlled by..?
I can easily see this having a long term effect on the economy.Also,don't you think the publicity of this and no wipe is going to have a negative result on possible new player's?Quite frankly it make's PWE/Cryptic look like a joke,like they have no care for what is going on inside their own game.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
What about all the player's starting later?They don't care about people that have played for a year and have million's of ad.No,they care about the fact that they can't afford the prices on the gear in the ah because it's controlled by..?
I can easily see this having a long term effect on the economy.Also,don't you think the publicity of this and no wipe is going to have a negative result on possible new player's?Quite frankly it make's PWE/Cryptic look like a joke,like they have no care for what is going on inside their own game.
They are a JOKE ...
They can fix it by admitting their mistake and doing everything to get the player base back.
Wipe , Refund , Re-Launch ... everything is possible !!!
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
If they don't wipe i'll probably walk away and do a charge back on my 50.00$ explaining the situation on how I paid money for things others were allowed to exploit and get for free.
said it in the other thread and i say it here. a wipe would make a lot of people to quit the game. one of them is me. just made it to 60 with my mage and the cleric is 54. i cant be bothered to lvl those chars again. and i don't care about the fake ad in the game now. just wipe the ad or w/e if u want.
You just leveled your character and with the bug the players have tons of goodies which your leveled character will never have. What is the point of having a 60 character when it can actually never have anything that others will continue to have without a full wipe?
Just think over it. These kinds of exploits are so deep that even if you try you cannot wipe the exploit. I am confident that it is impossible to track down that AD or track down all the items sold or traded and all the gold made.
Keep your level 60 character.
That is obsolete in comparison to the stuff other people have.
i dont give a f*** about what the others have. the point of havin a lvl 60 char is to do the epic dg with my mates. and what exactly are the things that those ppl have that i can never have?
this wipe talkin is just bullsh**.
It is just that epic dungeon gears can be just bought out. You will be wasting time and finding not much teams as if there is no wipe then we have all the AD in the world to buy them out .
Simple Fact.
People who has maxed out their crafts with that AD, just makes better armor with a click and you stand in the queue for hours to find that perfect team. You will be wasting gold in pots and kits ... oh well the exploiters have 5k+ gold through the exploited AD ... oh well ... someone gets a piece and the bid will be so high you will never be able to buy it ...even if it is the last piece of your set ...
This game is easy to level ... a level 60 character will take 3 days max following no exploits and just quests and dailies ... but this economy that has been exploited will kill the game if not wiped and fixed.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
Have you heard of something called inflation? It's this very bad thing that ruins MMO economies over time as currency is constantly introduced causing prices for goods rise exponentially and newer players are unable to afford anything. MMOs are generally all built with currency sinks as a means of reducing or preventing inflation.
This exploit just introduced several billion AD to the economy (if not more) and has caused hyper-inflation on a scale I have never seen in an MMO before. If you did not dupe AD or benefit from the duped AD you can no longer afford anything on the AH... There were things listed in the tens of millions before the servers went down. See the problem?
There are a lot of people posting here who seem to think that a lot of players suddenly getting insanely rich won't affect them. Well they're incredibly naive. When a huge number of people are rich the prices will rise to take advantage of that. If you're not rich like them then good luck finding enough AD to buy anything...
Now bear in mind that this has been going on for weeks (since the servers went live actually) and in the last 24-48 hrs saw a lot of innocent players end up with the duped AD through trades. This means that they cannot remove those duped AD without affecting innocent players. It's simply NOT POSSIBLE at this stage. The only solution if they want to revert this hyper-inflation is a complete rollback of the servers. If they choose anything less than that then the economy will remain broken as too many people who didn't directly dupe anything will still possess crazy amounts of AD.
The suggestions of a wipe are the result of how far back this goes. The exploit only became public knowledge in the last 24hrs but we know it has been going on since launch. Add to that the numerous other exploits that have also caused damage to the economy in the past two weeks and you have a situation where it may genuinely be easier just to start over. Yes people will quit if they wipe, but many are quitting if they don't wipe...
tl;dr - Several billion AD have caused hyperinflation and much of it is now in the hands of innocent players. If you think it won't affect you then you have no understanding of economics and are incredibly naive. A complete server rollback is the ONLY option, though a wipe would be highly advised given that this has been going on since launch.
said it in the other thread and i say it here. a wipe would make a lot of people to quit the game. one of them is me. just made it to 60 with my mage and the cleric is 54. i cant be bothered to lvl those chars again. and i don't care about the fake ad in the game now. just wipe the ad or w/e if u want.
Originally posted by SupportPlayerMM If they don't wipe i'll probably walk away and do a charge back on my 50.00$ explaining the situation on how I paid money for things others were allowed to exploit and get for free.
This is why I said they are in a loose/loose on this one. Either way by charging for service that was not ready to be commercialized they have effectively shot their wad.
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
Have you heard of something called inflation? It's this very bad thing that ruins MMO economies over time as currency is constantly introduced causing prices for goods rise exponentially and newer players are unable to afford anything. MMOs are generally all built with currency sinks as a means of reducing or preventing inflation.
This exploit just introduced several billion AD to the economy (if not more) and has caused hyper-inflation on a scale I have never seen in an MMO before. If you did not dupe AD or benefit from the duped AD you can no longer afford anything on the AH... There were things listed in the tens of millions before the servers went down. See the problem?
There are a lot of people posting here who seem to think that a lot of players suddenly getting insanely rich won't affect them. Well they're incredibly naive. When a huge number of people are rich the prices will rise to take advantage of that. If you're not rich like them then good luck finding enough AD to buy anything...
Now bear in mind that this has been going on for weeks (since the servers went live actually) and in the last 24-48 hrs saw a lot of innocent players end up with the duped AD through trades. This means that they cannot remove those duped AD without affecting innocent players. It's simply NOT POSSIBLE at this stage. The only solution if they want to revert this hyper-inflation is a complete rollback of the servers. If they choose anything less than that then the economy will remain broken as too many people who didn't directly dupe anything will still possess crazy amounts of AD.
The suggestions of a wipe are the result of how far back this goes. The exploit only became public knowledge in the last 24hrs but we know it has been going on since launch. Add to that the numerous other exploits that have also caused damage to the economy in the past two weeks and you have a situation where it may genuinely be easier just to start over. Yes people will quit if they wipe, but many are quitting if they don't wipe...
tl;dr - Several billion AD have caused hyperinflation and much of it is now in the hands of innocent players. If you think it won't affect you then you have no understanding of economics and are incredibly naive. A complete server rollback is the ONLY option, though a wipe would be highly advised given that this has been going on since launch.
They just need to fix everything ... complete the game ... refund their founder's ... start over ... this simple step has survivability ... every other step will be just another negative ... without a wipe they cannot FIX this ever. No matter how hard they try !!!!
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
What about all the player's starting later?They don't care about people that have played for a year and have million's of ad.No,they care about the fact that they can't afford the prices on the gear in the ah because it's controlled by..?
I can easily see this having a long term effect on the economy.Also,don't you think the publicity of this and no wipe is going to have a negative result on possible new player's?Quite frankly it make's PWE/Cryptic look like a joke,like they have no care for what is going on inside their own game.
See that's the thing. My wife still plays WoW (bless her little heart) and she loves playing the AH game. Sometimes she tells me about the ridiculous prices players pay for low level crap. Copper ore for hundreds of gold and stupid crap like that. It's like that on the server she transferred to because many players transferred to that server with bank accounts intact. So what naturally happened was high level players did not want to waste time farming low level mats. And who are the only ones farming low level mats? You guessed it low level players.
So my wife works the system of creating low level players and collecting shit just to sell to high level players because they're too damn lazy to do it themselves. That leaves low level players at an advantage of obtaining shit from NPC vendors more quickly than they could ever hope for and when they get to the stage of actually using the AH they can afford everything their because they were exposed early on to a jacked up system of cost vs. demand. Trust me it will all work out.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Think about how mad those people would be who have purchased a key and unlocked the nightmare mount. Just giving them a new key is not going to fix the problem. People who did not exploit should not have to suffer for those who did.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
Have you heard of something called inflation? It's this very bad thing that ruins MMO economies over time as currency is constantly introduced causing prices for goods rise exponentially and newer players are unable to afford anything. MMOs are generally all built with currency sinks as a means of reducing or preventing inflation.
This exploit just introduced several billion AD to the economy (if not more) and has caused hyper-inflation on a scale I have never seen in an MMO before. If you did not dupe AD or benefit from the duped AD you can no longer afford anything on the AH... There were things listed in the tens of millions before the servers went down. See the problem?
There are a lot of people posting here who seem to think that a lot of players suddenly getting insanely rich won't affect them. Well they're incredibly naive. When a huge number of people are rich the prices will rise to take advantage of that. If you're not rich like them then good luck finding enough AD to buy anything...
Now bear in mind that this has been going on for weeks (since the servers went live actually) and in the last 24-48 hrs saw a lot of innocent players end up with the duped AD through trades. This means that they cannot remove those duped AD without affecting innocent players. It's simply NOT POSSIBLE at this stage. The only solution if they want to revert this hyper-inflation is a complete rollback of the servers. If they choose anything less than that then the economy will remain broken as too many people who didn't directly dupe anything will still possess crazy amounts of AD.
The suggestions of a wipe are the result of how far back this goes. The exploit only became public knowledge in the last 24hrs but we know it has been going on since launch. Add to that the numerous other exploits that have also caused damage to the economy in the past two weeks and you have a situation where it may genuinely be easier just to start over. Yes people will quit if they wipe, but many are quitting if they don't wipe...
tl;dr - Several billion AD have caused hyperinflation and much of it is now in the hands of innocent players. If you think it won't affect you then you have no understanding of economics and are incredibly naive. A complete server rollback is the ONLY option, though a wipe would be highly advised given that this has been going on since launch.
I already explained that players with billions of AD will not have it for long (if that's even the case). And inflated systems still work for the advantage of new players because VENDOR PRICES DO NOT CHANGE. I played FFXI with the Japanese and their high prices and did just fine. My wife players on a WoW server with fat cats paying outrageous prices for low level mats. It all works out. Now if the NPC prices increased along with players bank accounts you'd have a leg to stand on. But this ain't real life so real life economy lessons take a backseat to fantasy economies.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Why in hell should there be a wipe, people are jelous on this exploiters which are already 60? Who cares if they are, like a wipe changes anything.
So so many people complaining about wipes in many games. Seriously this is the most useless thing I have ever seen.
It isn't about people leveling...there was a massive auction house exploit that went public (and thus extremely widespread) over the last 24 hours and the result was the creation of billions upon billions of AD out of thin air. The economy has now been completely ruined.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
Buy up all the in-game AD items? Who cares?
Buy up all the Zen so the prices skyrocket? Who cares?
Buy up all the items on the AH players post for AD? Who cares?
By this time next year, players will have hundreds of millions of AD and nothing to spend it on. I've seen the things purchased for AD and I can say with complete confidence, I've seen better. I mean really is this a game about controlling the damn economy or is it about delving dungeons and killing dragons? Some people have their focus on the wrong thing. No wonder they think these games are in such a crappy state...
What about all the player's starting later?They don't care about people that have played for a year and have million's of ad.No,they care about the fact that they can't afford the prices on the gear in the ah because it's controlled by..?
I can easily see this having a long term effect on the economy.Also,don't you think the publicity of this and no wipe is going to have a negative result on possible new player's?Quite frankly it make's PWE/Cryptic look like a joke,like they have no care for what is going on inside their own game.
See that's the thing. My wife still plays WoW (bless her little heart) and she loves playing the AH game. Sometimes she tells me about the ridiculous prices players pay for low level crap. Copper ore for hundreds of gold and stupid crap like that. It's like that on the server she transferred to because many players transferred to that server with bank accounts intact. So what naturally happened was high level players did not want to waste time farming low level mats. And who are the only ones farming low level mats? You guessed it low level players.
So my wife works the system of creating low level players and collecting shit just to sell to high level players because they're too damn lazy to do it themselves. That leaves low level players at an advantage of obtaining shit from NPC vendors more quickly than they could ever hope for and when they get to the stage of actually using the AH they can afford everything their because they were exposed early on to a jacked up system of cost vs. demand. Trust me it will all work out.
From what I've seen,the WoW economy and this game's economy are many miles apart.You can't even create bag's in this game to make some $$,I sure haven't seen any player created.Making $$ in the ah is harder than WoW because the game is really dominated by drop's and player created doesn't look to generate much.At least not compared to WoW.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Originally posted by Xepo They may want to rethink that statement. For many and I mean many on forums from this site to face Book hundreds if not thousands are saying they would rather see a complete wipe.
This time PWI nailed it on themselves.
A crappy game from cryptic.
An unfinished product sold to consumers.
This is just malpractice.
This defines the underlying faulty legal formalities biding a game company.
Comments
Giffen, you clearly don't understand. They have to read up on every character manually, they have to hire thousands of typists tp put it all on paper and even more people to read it all and then even more people to fix it. Manually...one by one...takes ages...
Kidding ofc, I think some people don't really understand the ease a simple or even complex database can bring you.
Umm it's all in a database. They don't hand type in the Zen transaction. It could be easily automated.
true but according to the twitter feed, apparently not something they are considering. My guess is they are going to try to PR spin
True enough.
But then PWE sit with a Zen/AD Exchange crammed full of Zen offers, and they have to wait for all that to clear before they start making money selling fresh Zen to those Zen sellers...
And this time around, the amount of AD chasing Zen on the Exchange is going to be a LOT lower, because quite a few of the exploits from 2 weeks ago have been fixed...
Something like that wouldn't weed out which are genuine transactions and which are from the exploit though.
You just leveled your character and with the bug the players have tons of goodies which your leveled character will never have. What is the point of having a 60 character when it can actually never have anything that others will continue to have without a full wipe?
Just think over it. These kinds of exploits are so deep that even if you try you cannot wipe the exploit. I am confident that it is impossible to track down that AD or track down all the items sold or traded and all the gold made.
Keep your level 60 character.
That is obsolete in comparison to the stuff other people have.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
They'd still have to figure out what exactly they are going to search for in the database specifically since I doubt they accounted for this happening. It might not be so easily automated. If they make the search of the database too simplistic they risk banning people who didn't use the exploit. It's a lot more complex a problem than something that is just automated. Maybe it's sophisticated enough to track the specific exploit and ban people who used it. What if someone did it by accident, do they still get banned? Do you only ban repeat offenders, people who used the exploit to a various degree, or do you ban everyone who used it? It's a lot more complicated a problem than just being easily automated.
Would they not have a record of Zen purchased from the web site. Just refund that. I am sure someone can work out an algorithm for that.
Zen pruchased with AD would not count since that as an in game transaction for in game items. They would just need to refund Zen purchased with real currency.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
i dont give a f*** about what the others have. the point of havin a lvl 60 char is to do the epic dg with my mates. and what exactly are the things that those ppl have that i can never have?
this wipe talkin is just bullsh**.
Don't worry, as they have made very clear on twitter, there will be no wipe. We just have to wait and see what they will do (are doing). If you didn't use any exploit it seems from what we know now that you will not be affected in any direct way.
Some of us may wish for a wipe, they said that this will not happen.
The economy has not been completely ruined! Setback, yes, completely ruined no. Please praytell how did a 2 week old economy get ruined by players duping free currency. And by free I mean currency earned for very little effort and practically given away anyway? What real harm can a player that has a billion AD do?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Go look up EQ2's launch
What about all the player's starting later?They don't care about people that have played for a year and have million's of ad.No,they care about the fact that they can't afford the prices on the gear in the ah because it's controlled by..?
I can easily see this having a long term effect on the economy.Also,don't you think the publicity of this and no wipe is going to have a negative result on possible new player's?Quite frankly it make's PWE/Cryptic look like a joke,like they have no care for what is going on inside their own game.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
They are a JOKE ...
They can fix it by admitting their mistake and doing everything to get the player base back.
Wipe , Refund , Re-Launch ... everything is possible !!!
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
It is just that epic dungeon gears can be just bought out. You will be wasting time and finding not much teams as if there is no wipe then we have all the AD in the world to buy them out .
Simple Fact.
People who has maxed out their crafts with that AD, just makes better armor with a click and you stand in the queue for hours to find that perfect team. You will be wasting gold in pots and kits ... oh well the exploiters have 5k+ gold through the exploited AD ... oh well ... someone gets a piece and the bid will be so high you will never be able to buy it ...even if it is the last piece of your set ...
This game is easy to level ... a level 60 character will take 3 days max following no exploits and just quests and dailies ... but this economy that has been exploited will kill the game if not wiped and fixed.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
Have you heard of something called inflation? It's this very bad thing that ruins MMO economies over time as currency is constantly introduced causing prices for goods rise exponentially and newer players are unable to afford anything. MMOs are generally all built with currency sinks as a means of reducing or preventing inflation.
This exploit just introduced several billion AD to the economy (if not more) and has caused hyper-inflation on a scale I have never seen in an MMO before. If you did not dupe AD or benefit from the duped AD you can no longer afford anything on the AH... There were things listed in the tens of millions before the servers went down. See the problem?
There are a lot of people posting here who seem to think that a lot of players suddenly getting insanely rich won't affect them. Well they're incredibly naive. When a huge number of people are rich the prices will rise to take advantage of that. If you're not rich like them then good luck finding enough AD to buy anything...
Now bear in mind that this has been going on for weeks (since the servers went live actually) and in the last 24-48 hrs saw a lot of innocent players end up with the duped AD through trades. This means that they cannot remove those duped AD without affecting innocent players. It's simply NOT POSSIBLE at this stage. The only solution if they want to revert this hyper-inflation is a complete rollback of the servers. If they choose anything less than that then the economy will remain broken as too many people who didn't directly dupe anything will still possess crazy amounts of AD.
The suggestions of a wipe are the result of how far back this goes. The exploit only became public knowledge in the last 24hrs but we know it has been going on since launch. Add to that the numerous other exploits that have also caused damage to the economy in the past two weeks and you have a situation where it may genuinely be easier just to start over. Yes people will quit if they wipe, but many are quitting if they don't wipe...
tl;dr - Several billion AD have caused hyperinflation and much of it is now in the hands of innocent players. If you think it won't affect you then you have no understanding of economics and are incredibly naive. A complete server rollback is the ONLY option, though a wipe would be highly advised given that this has been going on since launch.
Yeah that's right protect the guilty by making the innocent seem flawed.
This is why I said they are in a loose/loose on this one. Either way by charging for service that was not ready to be commercialized they have effectively shot their wad.
They just need to fix everything ... complete the game ... refund their founder's ... start over ... this simple step has survivability ... every other step will be just another negative ... without a wipe they cannot FIX this ever. No matter how hard they try !!!!
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
See that's the thing. My wife still plays WoW (bless her little heart) and she loves playing the AH game. Sometimes she tells me about the ridiculous prices players pay for low level crap. Copper ore for hundreds of gold and stupid crap like that. It's like that on the server she transferred to because many players transferred to that server with bank accounts intact. So what naturally happened was high level players did not want to waste time farming low level mats. And who are the only ones farming low level mats? You guessed it low level players.
So my wife works the system of creating low level players and collecting shit just to sell to high level players because they're too damn lazy to do it themselves. That leaves low level players at an advantage of obtaining shit from NPC vendors more quickly than they could ever hope for and when they get to the stage of actually using the AH they can afford everything their because they were exposed early on to a jacked up system of cost vs. demand. Trust me it will all work out.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I already explained that players with billions of AD will not have it for long (if that's even the case). And inflated systems still work for the advantage of new players because VENDOR PRICES DO NOT CHANGE. I played FFXI with the Japanese and their high prices and did just fine. My wife players on a WoW server with fat cats paying outrageous prices for low level mats. It all works out. Now if the NPC prices increased along with players bank accounts you'd have a leg to stand on. But this ain't real life so real life economy lessons take a backseat to fantasy economies.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
From what I've seen,the WoW economy and this game's economy are many miles apart.You can't even create bag's in this game to make some $$,I sure haven't seen any player created.Making $$ in the ah is harder than WoW because the game is really dominated by drop's and player created doesn't look to generate much.At least not compared to WoW.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
It's OPEN BETA ..
In computing, the term "beta" is used as (usually) the last prerelease in the software release life cycle.