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I am just tired of all the killing and war...
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One, it has nothing to do with my personal favorite MMO, it's what all early MMOs set out to do. Their implementation varied considerably, but the end goal was to provide a living, breathing world, not a glorified combat simulator, which is what many modern MMOs are quickly becoming.
Two, while the activity in FF7 may be fairly uniform, it actually takes a surprisingly large number of elements working in conjunction with each other to pull off. Story, animations, base mechanics, the magic/skill system, and more need to work together. Very few MMOs today manage to pull that off even with a single focus, whereas most of the older games (much like FF7 compared to it's successors) did just as well, if not better, with a wider focus and less resources to pull it off. You don't want to spread your eggs too thin, but you can't concentrate them too much either, otherwise you get the result where one aspect is really great, and the rest of the game is, or at least feels like, it was bolted on the last minute in an attempt to provide a "complete" game. Sure, modern MMOs do well in this area or that, but the game as a whole rarely does well. SWTOR is a very good example; very strong story, but not much replayability or longevity (at least from what I've gathered from the handful of genuinely objective posts I've read about it) because too many systems were ignored until far too late in the process to mesh them into the game as a whole. EVE is a very good example of how to successfully do it properly; both combat and industry work and work well because they work with each each rather than fighting each other both conceptually and resource wise on the dev's end. You cannot successfully have multiple major systems entirely independent of each other and expect success, but you can have multiple major systems that work with each other to increase not only the total number of eggs, but the size and connectedness of the baskets being used.
Even if you don't strictly focus on the secondary systems, they still need to be part of the plan, and worked on, from the start and they need to feel like part of the same game as the primary systems. It isn't that hard to do, but it does require putting actual effort into the development instead slapping together a base idea and relying almost entirely on copying and pasting preexisting systems, engines, and code that may or may not work with all the other stuff being copied and pasted. It also means that the increased focus on graphics does little to help the game, as graphics is both resource intense, taking away from other aspects of development, and the first thing that people are going to complain about being outdated before it's even released. Focusing similarly on any one aspect is going to hurt the world as a whole, something that other genres can get away with, but MMORPGs as originally conceived cannot. Even the current view of most MMOs expects some form of longevity, and hyper focused games will not provide that; people will try out the decent aspect of the game and move on.
If all you're saying now is 'early MMOs tried some stuff' that's obviously accurate and true. Earlier you said MMOs were specifically not supposed to be specialized games, which obviously has no bearing on what MMOs should or shouldn't be because it's just your opinion.
The elements you listed for FF7 are just Story and Combat elements. Just like any MMORPG. Are you implying that the terrible minigames (#1, #2) were the most memorable parts of FF7 for you? Because I'm pretty sure for most people it was all about the Combat and Story. Just like any MMORPG. The only unique bit would be chocobo racing, and in MMORPGs the equivalent is usually crafting.
Those FF7 minigame examples certainly feel more "bolted on" than anything I've seen in a MMORPG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If your stance was "Early MMORPGs were made a certain way. I prefer that way." then yes we could agree to disagree. You'd be stating a fact and an opinion.
Your stance seems to be "MMORPGs aren't supposed to be made in a way that differs from my preference." Which is like stating that your opinion should dictate the direction of the genre. It doesn't work like that. An MMO is an MMO.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
so far nobody blame they need to kill anything there.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Reading this made me lol. We can't engage in violent acts (killing and warfare) in real life to most extremes without breaking the law and/or being a psychopath. Therefore video games provide an outlet to channel all of that anger/violence in an enjoyable and rewarding atmosphere. I'm a hardcore pvper, the fact that all the games coming out have to do with killing and warfare in the near future makes me beyond happy.
Also if I wanted to be against killing and warfare I'd do it in real life, I could go hug a tree somewhere eh?
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Nothing is wrong, this just simply is what humanity is. The real world is full of killing, crimes, rapes, wars and whatnot "sick stuff" and it always has been so. That's just human nature since the stone age, and it reflects in to the games, all the games are so violent because that's what the audience, humans, want.
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
My apologies if its been said already, but I think it has to do with lack of creativity or the fear of the risk of being creative. Add in the fact that the industry is a moving target, so it seems lately that all of the resources are put into making games look good instead of having substance with creative ideas.
Good games take time to make, but after 5 years in development this industry will leave you behind. Its a shame really.
while i agree with you in principal i think the point the OP is making is that human beings are most decidedly *not* just war, mayhem, and violence. that is certainly a part of us, but we are also so many other things as well.
i think it would be great to see some of the other sides of our humanity incorporated into mmorpg's as well.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Non-combat games exist.
If there's a lack of creativity preventing players from playing them, it's the players not being creative enough to choose to play them.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I did not know that "a handful or two" meant 1000s. Heck, this site (MMORPG.com) only lists 589 MMOs total. Some on the list not even released yet.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Honestly,something like The Sims Online could be done with the technology and techniques of todays MMORPG. But tit was a failure so the likelihood of another game being released like it is not very high.
A social game with quest and mini games that aren't involved so much in fighting. If I were EA would make one and resell a bunch of the old games as in game mini games.
According to the sheer number of players that bought it, I would bet on the technical issues part, not the gameplay part. I could lose that bet as I never purchased it nor played the online version so I do not know what the gameplay was actually like. The stand alone versions I have spent many hours in, enjoying myself
As stated before by many "like-minded" posters (including the OP), "NO combat" is not what the topic is here, but rather well implemented "OTHER activities besides combat" are desired.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You make some excellent points. The simple answer; Because its what people have been conditioned to expect. Playing to the expectations of ones audience is the path to riches (or power in politics). Its also cheaper from a time/talent/creative perspective. Dev's like almost everyone, will take the path of least resistance. The tragic results are all around us, obvious to anyone who isn't too blind to see them.
Please don't be giving EA any ideas on another MMO type Sims game. Sims social was horrible with only a small percentage of people who were popular and online practically 24/7 had many customers. The one I bought came with 3 months gameplay back then and I think I played around 2 weeks maximum and quit.
Majority of the Sims player base (myself included, I've been playing since Sims 1) want just a single player experience. Just a world that we create ourselves and want no social experience with others.
I am wondering though why there isn't any other companies who would make a Sims type game. They have no competition and most of us want the older types of sandbox type of the game and not the what EA has done with the series which is practically a RPG now with some sandbox elements. Maybe the OP might be interested in the Sims 3 but it isn't an MMO but does have some social online aspects.
The whole thread reminds me of a PETA speech. The PC cause celebre, save our precious and adorable virtual animals, pixels have feelings too.
Thousands of games? Yes.
Thousands of MMOs? Well that falls under the point I made later in the thread where you have to figure out what shit actually matters to you and play those games -- because the industry isn't ever going to give you the precise perfect combination of features you want in a single game.
So if combat bothers you enough to make a post about it, you play non-combat games. Problem solved.
If avoiding killing is less important to you than playing an MMO, you play an MMO.
OR you play the handful of non-combat MMOs which do exist.
And if you have excuses for why even those games aren't acceptable, then you have two choices: realize your expectations are ridiculous and find multiple games to satisfy your different needs, or be frustrated and angry all the time.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think it was largely it was just a bad game as to why it failed. It was more of Sim 1-2 styled game with lots vs. having an open world sandbox game.
I mean there are always other things to do in MMORPG. But largely those type games don't get the funding, old or shut down like SWG.
Honestly, the market is wide open for a social MMO Sims game that's AAA. My girlfriend has become bored with the Sims 3 and wants multiplayer because the sims simply aren't unpredictable. I am sure advertisers would love to reach the Sims market. Funny thing with EA/Maxis is they attempted to put a city builder as a MMO which is a total failure because it's even remotely compatible with the MMO style of game play.
False look up Orca Whales, yes the very same whale species as Free Willy.
They play with their food, and hunt for enjoyment.
Yes I admit the Sims 3 is the worst/most boring of the series and I've given up on it simply because it has turned more of a less into a questing/collecting game now. I've purchased every single base+expansion for all the Sims titles but stopped after the 4th expansion into Sims 3, simply because it's heading into a direction which I don't I enjoy. It is also dumbed down quite a bit, my 5 year old nephew can do the quests in it.
The Sims AI has hardly improved, with the technology of today I'm hoping the sequel will be much better. This is the biggest selling game of all time, I really wish there would be more developers making it.
In any case, maybe she should try Second Life? Isn't that a social type of game she might be after? I've never played it but I've heard you can almost do everything in that game (even give birth and such, don't google search it unless you want to be traumatised like me). Some things should be left out of games you know.
Perhaps. Or perhaps its a perspective that has nothing to do with the tree hugging, or touchy feelly types? Its an unfortunate reality that violence is some times necessary. But that IS a reality. That doesn't mean that one should take pleasure in it. Violence is seldom the best solution to a given problem. But it does tend to be the simplest and most thoughtless response.
There is a better way. Its known as the ZAP. Zero Aggression Principle. But make no mistake, those who follow the ZAP, are seldom pacifists. They simply do not believe in initiating violence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXkydzqPC6M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle
exactly. im not looking for a fight. but if Mr NonPC Cause Celebre decided to bring his ignorant ass around to harm me or those around me, I would not hesitate to stop him with any physical means necessary.
this is not about PC bullshit. this is about games being representative of the human experience which, unfortunately for the unread, means a lot more than blowing shit up and killing things.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?