Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Stop being uninformed haters. Get educated.
And as i already knew, you could not provide a link to where full loot is decided by developers to be in the game, cause it just isnt decided.
You're the clueless one here and it is amuzing how you continue to defend this coming carebear game as something else. SotA will not be the new oldschool UO, it will be just another WoW game.
lul
me clueless
lawl
nobody asked for video.. you want video? i am a PK, i haz this shizzle bookmarked
lul lul
Dev Chat on 5.16.13
32:45 - 36:30 (pvp)
lawl
MMORPGITALIA Interview
06:10 - 07:45 (pvp)
26:46 - 29:55 (pvp and thief)
32:00 - 33:43 (pvp)
roflmao @ you nub
there is even more than this, it is a google search away from your lazy butt. but it all says the same thing which you have already been told. pvp is there, full loot is going to make an appearance for the pvp players which the carebears will probably never come across. so there is not going to be any carebearing of pvp. cos the carebears wont pvp, they wont piss in the pvp water.
the only thing RG has said 100% is not going to be allowed is the outright griefing caused to nubs by hardcore PKs. while that does make me slightly sad, everything else they have said about this game, does not make me sad.
now what I suggest all of you pvp end of days frackin foos do, is start to talk over on the sota forum instead of QQ your entire lives in here. put out your concerns. be heard. the only thing you will get a no on is outright PK grief.
dooo eeeet nao
There is nothing set in stone in that interview, they will try it out in alpha/beta and if the players like it they will add it to the final release.
I can assure you that the whiner carebears will remove that feature from the game.
And what was it with the sound? Couldnt hear some of what was said.
Easy solution for the Full Loot PVP crowd. Set a level barrier and a group modifier. You can only initiate combat on character(s) that are your level or higher. When in groups, the highest level character in the group dictates who the target can be and the group can have no more than a three to one advantage.
One big hit against Full Loot PVP is gear. If it is a PvP focused game, then the game economy needs to be based around crafting and trade, not loot from quests. This prevents a lot of the anger for the carebear players (myself included). If I just spent an hour or more clearing a dungeon for that one special shiny; I don't want john q ganker to come along when I exit the quest and have no resources left, and get an easy kill and take all the loot I just worked for. There is no risk v reward there.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Stop being uninformed haters. Get educated.
And as i already knew, you could not provide a link to where full loot is decided by developers to be in the game, cause it just isnt decided.
You're the clueless one here and it is amuzing how you continue to defend this coming carebear game as something else. SotA will not be the new oldschool UO, it will be just another WoW game.
lul
me clueless
lawl
nobody asked for video.. you want video? i am a PK, i haz this shizzle bookmarked
lul lul
Dev Chat on 5.16.13
32:45 - 36:30 (pvp)
lawl
MMORPGITALIA Interview
06:10 - 07:45 (pvp)
26:46 - 29:55 (pvp and thief)
32:00 - 33:43 (pvp)
roflmao @ you nub
there is even more than this, it is a google search away from your lazy butt. but it all says the same thing which you have already been told. pvp is there, full loot is going to make an appearance for the pvp players which the carebears will probably never come across. so there is not going to be any carebearing of pvp. cos the carebears wont pvp, they wont piss in the pvp water.
the only thing RG has said 100% is not going to be allowed is the outright griefing caused to nubs by hardcore PKs. while that does make me slightly sad, everything else they have said about this game, does not make me sad.
now what I suggest all of you pvp end of days frackin foos do, is start to talk over on the sota forum instead of QQ your entire lives in here. put out your concerns. be heard. the only thing you will get a no on is outright PK grief.
dooo eeeet nao
There is nothing set in stone in that interview, they will try it out in alpha/beta and if the players like it they will add it to the final release.
I can assure you that the whiner carebears will remove that feature from the game.
And what was it with the sound? Couldnt hear some of what was said.
Carebears can't remove something they can't even see.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Stop being uninformed haters. Get educated.
And as i already knew, you could not provide a link to where full loot is decided by developers to be in the game, cause it just isnt decided.
You're the clueless one here and it is amuzing how you continue to defend this coming carebear game as something else. SotA will not be the new oldschool UO, it will be just another WoW game.
lul
me clueless
lawl
nobody asked for video.. you want video? i am a PK, i haz this shizzle bookmarked
lul lul
Dev Chat on 5.16.13
32:45 - 36:30 (pvp)
lawl
MMORPGITALIA Interview
06:10 - 07:45 (pvp)
26:46 - 29:55 (pvp and thief)
32:00 - 33:43 (pvp)
roflmao @ you nub
there is even more than this, it is a google search away from your lazy butt. but it all says the same thing which you have already been told. pvp is there, full loot is going to make an appearance for the pvp players which the carebears will probably never come across. so there is not going to be any carebearing of pvp. cos the carebears wont pvp, they wont piss in the pvp water.
the only thing RG has said 100% is not going to be allowed is the outright griefing caused to nubs by hardcore PKs. while that does make me slightly sad, everything else they have said about this game, does not make me sad.
now what I suggest all of you pvp end of days frackin foos do, is start to talk over on the sota forum instead of QQ your entire lives in here. put out your concerns. be heard. the only thing you will get a no on is outright PK grief.
dooo eeeet nao
There is nothing set in stone in that interview, they will try it out in alpha/beta and if the players like it they will add it to the final release.
I can assure you that the whiner carebears will remove that feature from the game.
And what was it with the sound? Couldnt hear some of what was said.
Carebears can't remove something they can't even see.
The Magicpvpsliderbarthingy for the win.
PvP that is more or less dictaded by the carebears, yes there is carebears that want to "try out" PvP in SotA but they wont do it if not certain conditions is cared for.
That is why i have see no future for this game, it will be just another carebear PvP game.
A good example on how PvE players want the last word on open PvP -
"You are wrong to think that "because PvE'ers have SPO (go play with yourself!) and FPO (go play with your other lame friends!)" that you, the PvP crowd, get to have the OPO mode.
OPO mode is for ANYONE (hey look, that includes PvE players!) to play with ANYONE else (including other PvE players they don't know!) and that mode should not FORCE anyone to PvP against their will, no matter how much you want them to have to. Period. End of story."
If there is just open PvP and not different types of open PvP then the PvP we will see in SotA will be the carebear version of PvP.
So the magic slider you're so fond of solve nothing for the felucca oldschool PvP players. SotA will be just another carebear PvP game.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Stop being uninformed haters. Get educated.
And as i already knew, you could not provide a link to where full loot is decided by developers to be in the game, cause it just isnt decided.
You're the clueless one here and it is amuzing how you continue to defend this coming carebear game as something else. SotA will not be the new oldschool UO, it will be just another WoW game.
lul
me clueless
lawl
nobody asked for video.. you want video? i am a PK, i haz this shizzle bookmarked
lul lul
Dev Chat on 5.16.13
32:45 - 36:30 (pvp)
lawl
MMORPGITALIA Interview
06:10 - 07:45 (pvp)
26:46 - 29:55 (pvp and thief)
32:00 - 33:43 (pvp)
roflmao @ you nub
there is even more than this, it is a google search away from your lazy butt. but it all says the same thing which you have already been told. pvp is there, full loot is going to make an appearance for the pvp players which the carebears will probably never come across. so there is not going to be any carebearing of pvp. cos the carebears wont pvp, they wont piss in the pvp water.
the only thing RG has said 100% is not going to be allowed is the outright griefing caused to nubs by hardcore PKs. while that does make me slightly sad, everything else they have said about this game, does not make me sad.
now what I suggest all of you pvp end of days frackin foos do, is start to talk over on the sota forum instead of QQ your entire lives in here. put out your concerns. be heard. the only thing you will get a no on is outright PK grief.
dooo eeeet nao
There is nothing set in stone in that interview, they will try it out in alpha/beta and if the players like it they will add it to the final release.
I can assure you that the whiner carebears will remove that feature from the game.
And what was it with the sound? Couldnt hear some of what was said.
Carebears can't remove something they can't even see.
The Magicpvpsliderbarthingy for the win.
PvP that is more or less dictaded by the carebears, yes there is carebears that want to "try out" PvP in SotA but they wont do it if not certain conditions is cared for.
Perfect. Carebears can try out OPO with slider set to PK and I'll gank them and they'll run back to OPO mode with the slider set to kitten and they'll be safe macro crafting in their pretty little houses and never come out.
Where exactly is the problem? I mean it is nice to grief nubs and carebears, but there are going to be plenty of targets and since Portalarium KNOWS ppl will opt into PvP and those ppl will get good pvp.
I dont want to have to say this again, so open up your frackin ears. There is no need to water down PvP for any reason what so ever as those who don't wish to play it, WONT PLAY IT OR BE AFFECTED BY IT. That leaves PKs and PvPs a good system.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Perfect. Carebears can try out OPO with slider set to PK and I'll gank them and they'll run back to OPO mode with the slider set to kitten and they'll be safe macro crafting in their pretty little houses and never come out.
Where exactly is the problem? I mean it is nice to grief nubs and carebears, but there are going to be plenty of targets and since Portalarium KNOWS ppl will opt into PvP and those ppl will get good pvp.
I dont want to have to say this again, so open up your frackin ears. There is no need to water down PvP for any reason what so ever as those who don't wish to play it, WONT PLAY IT OR BE AFFECTED BY IT. That leaves PKs and PvPs a good system.
Church.
Switching modes can only be done back in the towns, which are safe areas. So if they make it back to town, yes, they can switch modes. If they don't make it back to town, you get to kill them.
**
Church?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I will still go back to my statement on the PvP not being a factor in whether the game is successful or not.
If the developers have full loot PvP, it will not affect the people who don't enjoy it, because they won't be visible to the PvP players. This is known. It's one of the core concepts of the game. Players even have the option of playing in online single player mode.
If they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
It doesn't matter either way. The game will succeed or fail because of many things, the PvP included, but not because of the PvP itself.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP. They are doing things that contribute to the world, but it's not PvP. Eve players are also very loyal to Eve. Each year as Eve gets older, the average age of Eve players gets a year older. Those players aren't going to leave Eve for SotA.
If SotA doesn't have full loot PvP, not enough people will care for it to affect the game's overall success. That doesn't mean nobody will care, just that it's not going to be a deciding factor in the game's success or failure.
**
Also, Eve has 500k accounts, but we don't really know how many players they have since having multiple accounts is apparently common, and accepted.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP. They are doing things that contribute to the world, but it's not PvP. Eve players are also very loyal to Eve. Each year as Eve gets older, the average age of Eve players gets a year older. Those players aren't going to leave Eve for SotA.
If SotA doesn't have full loot PvP, not enough people will care for it to affect the game's overall success. That doesn't mean nobody will care, just that it's not going to be a deciding factor in the game's success or failure.
**
Also, Eve has 500k accounts, but we don't really know how many players they have since having multiple accounts is apparently common, and accepted.
You do know 80% of Eve world constitutes as "trammel" ?
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Some major differences. CCP's own number have stated that the average player has 2-3 accounts, and that most players play in High-sec (safe zones). EVE has major safe area, that most people play in, EVE is also different then most FFA MMO's in that if you blow up a player all you get is what is on that ship at that time. Most players when they expect to go into pvp (and yes most of them chose when and when they don't pvp) they have no items of any worth on them. The only thing a player loses is the cost of the ship, and even that can be lowered. You don't have to PVP in EVE unless you want to, you can spend years never fighting another player in a ship, and still play many aspects of the game. CCP's own number again, most players make their ISK(in game money) in high-sec(safe areas).
I find it fascinating that people play MMORPGs but wish to play only against NPCs and not other players. You're supposed to be this big bad warrior fighting for your faction... only you restrict that to the pre-programmed scripted NPCs that you basically are assured success against.
They need to erase the concept of PVE and just create a world in which anyone can attack anyone... you know... like real life?
I agree with this...All the constant complaints about better AI in mobs, yet the best "AI" come from playing against other players.
Gank fest, well of course there will be..why you have to pick your fights, I think the fear comes from not wanting to or just being bad at learning how to fight against a dynamic opponent . And while yes sometimes it is due to gear, you can thank modern mmo's for that crap.
I recently have been playing an old build of UO (pre Trammel) and having a blast at it. Being watchful and knowing how to survive adds that much more to the game.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Some major differences. CCP's own number have stated that the average player has 2-3 accounts, and that most players play in High-sec (safe zones). High-sec is not a safe zone. It's a safER zone. EVE has major safe area nope, that most people play in, EVE is also different then most FFA MMO's in that if you blow up a player all you get is what is on that ship at that time. That's not different at all actually. In FFA MMOs, you drop whats on your body, which is actually LESS of a penalty than death in Eve where you lose an expensive ship and possibly a ton of skills if you get podded. Most players when they expect to go into pvp (and yes most of them chose when and when they don't pvp) Er, some do. Many don't. Because it's FFA and you can get attacked at any time no matter where you are. they have no items of any worth on them. Wrong. The only thing a player loses is the cost of the ship, and even that can be lowered. And the aforementioned skills. You don't have to PVP in EVE unless you want to wrong, you can spend years never fighting another player in a ship, true and still play many aspects of the game. CCP's own number again, most players make their ISK(in game money) in high-sec(safe areas).
That last part is very iffy. Most of the money comes from rare minerals controlled by corps, in low sec.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Originally posted by DamonVile another endless thread where the >5% try and pretend like they could actually support a real mmo again ?
I guess Eve, the second most popular MMO on the market, isn't a real MMO?
It's not the second most popular by a long shot and it's not only populated by one type of player.
The fact that you would even say something like that shows just how flimsy your facts are. It has 500k subs that is notorious for people multiboxing in. 500k players ( which it doesn't have ) wouldn't even put it in the top 10.
Actually, but all public numbers, it's the second most subscribed to MMO, so yes, it is.
And no one is saying it is populated by one type of player but you. You're pretending that just because a game has FFA PvP, only one type of player can enjoy it? You contradict yourself with your own weird logic. Eve proves that a game can have FFA PvP and sustain itself quite well.
But do tell me, what other MMO has over 500k paying subscribers? I'll help. Rift doesn't. SWTOR doesn't. LotRO doesn't. AoC doesn't. Vanguard doesn't. WAR doesn't. EQ2 doesn't.
I find it fascinating that people play MMORPGs but wish to play only against NPCs and not other players. You're supposed to be this big bad warrior fighting for your faction... only you restrict that to the pre-programmed scripted NPCs that you basically are assured success against.
They need to erase the concept of PVE and just create a world in which anyone can attack anyone... you know... like real life?
I agree with this...All the constant complaints about better AI in mobs, yet the best "AI" come from playing against other players.
Gank fest, well of course there will be..why you have to pick your fights, I think the fear comes from not wanting to or just being bad at learning how to fight against a dynamic opponent . And while yes sometimes it is due to gear, you can thank modern mmo's for that crap.
I recently have been playing an old build of UO (pre Trammel) and having a blast at it. Being watchful and knowing how to survive adds that much more to the game.
Yeah some never evolve in games they continue to play games with the win button implemented.
Some PvE players even claim NPC mobs are harder then real people, just amazing.
Originally posted by Darth-Batman Because Darkfall is a shining example of a success story? All those open-world-pvp-full-loot games have something in common, they all struggle. All the 'hardcore' players chase away potential customers with their ganking until the community dies off. Players like me are left with nothing to do but hunt noob-hunters, which gets boring after day one and after day two all the 'noobs' have quit due to gankers small penile syndrome. I hope Shroud doesnt follow this pattern because if it does, chances are it'll share the same fate as Mortal Online and DF.
Trust me, if Darkfall was under another company... it would be lightyears better! Open world pvp/pk/loot has a huge fanbase! We just don't have a proper game to support this style so far
Originally posted by Darth-Batman Because Darkfall is a shining example of a success story? All those open-world-pvp-full-loot games have something in common, they all struggle. All the 'hardcore' players chase away potential customers with their ganking until the community dies off. Players like me are left with nothing to do but hunt noob-hunters, which gets boring after day one and after day two all the 'noobs' have quit due to gankers small penile syndrome. I hope Shroud doesnt follow this pattern because if it does, chances are it'll share the same fate as Mortal Online and DF.
Trust me, if Darkfall was under another company... it would be lightyears better! Open world pvp/pk/loot has a huge fanbase! We just don't have a proper game to support this style so far
Aye. There havent been a AAA game with those features implemented hardcore. Soft yes but not as it was in felucca UO.
As pointed out by people before, Richard Gariott KNOWS the true numbers behind Felucca and UO and the introduction of Trammel. HE WAS THERE.
Presumably, then, he's well aware of which option is the best business option. Unless he's the type of person who's unable to learn from his own history, I guess. Maybe his own history showed that Felucca-Only UO is for the best. However, judging by what we know of SotA so far, I imagine Richard is trying to stay away from most of that, and he's probably doing that for a reason that he himself experienced first-hand.
As for Eve, saying Eve is the 2nd most popular Subscription-based MMO is almost like saying the woman Eve was the 2nd most popular human being in the Garden of Eden. Yea, other subscription MMOs exist right now, unlike other humans In the Garden of Eden, but they're so TERRIBLE or were so horribly mismanaged that they might as well not exist.
The problem with mmorpgs now a days isn't even in the "hardcore pvp" aspect... It is with general content and freedom to do what you want. A lot of mmo's are far too focused on just pvp OR pve (sometimes a little of both) but the main issue is it is always about combat and hitting things with weapons/spells. Games need more activities and variety of things you can do.
For example in UO not only was there open world pvp that allowed people to fight each other (if they chose to) but the ways in which they could do so without even using a weapon or spell, such as poisoned food, trapped chests, or the funniest one is portals in to very unpleasant places.
I love pvp but I hate it when it is just a linear game in either pvp or pve. I say make an mmorpg that lets people do lots of things, not just hit eachother or monsters/animals. Come on devs... Be creative.
As for Eve, saying Eve is the 2nd most popular Subscription-based MMO is almost like saying the woman Eve was the 2nd most popular human being in the Garden of Eden. Yea, other subscription MMOs exist right now, unlike other humans In the Garden of Eden, but they're so TERRIBLE or were so horribly mismanaged that they might as well not exist.
Er, it's the other way around.
MMOs that have gone FTP have generally done so because the games weren't worth paying for.
Meanwhile, Eve has a FTP option, yet it still has 500k subscribers. Who knows how many players above 500k it has that are playing for free. It's not a small game.
Originally posted by DamonVile another endless thread where the >5% try and pretend like they could actually support a real mmo again ?
I guess Eve, the second most popular MMO on the market, isn't a real MMO?
It's not the second most popular by a long shot and it's not only populated by one type of player.
The fact that you would even say something like that shows just how flimsy your facts are. It has 500k subs that is notorious for people multiboxing in. 500k players ( which it doesn't have ) wouldn't even put it in the top 10.
Actually, but all public numbers, it's the second most subscribed to MMO, so yes, it is.
And no one is saying it is populated by one type of player but you. You're pretending that just because a game has FFA PvP, only one type of player can enjoy it? You contradict yourself with your own weird logic. Eve proves that a game can have FFA PvP and sustain itself quite well.
But do tell me, what other MMO has over 500k paying subscribers? I'll help. Rift doesn't. SWTOR doesn't. LotRO doesn't. AoC doesn't. Vanguard doesn't. WAR doesn't. EQ2 doesn't.
So subs are how the market decides what's popular ? You're trying to say a free to play game with 2+ million people paying ..you have no idea how much, is less popular because it doesn't have as many subs and I'm the one with weird logic ? You have flat out bad math skills it seems. Which would explain why you spend your day trying to prove something the industry learned 10+ years ago and doesn't seem to be falling over themselves to retest.
And I said the >5% couldn't support a game, you are trying to twist that like always. You pulled eve out of your ass to straw man that and I simply pointed out that not only does it not have 500k people playing, they're not all part of the 5% you were implying.
Originally posted by VikingGamer UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.
Sorry?
UO proved that when internet was not mainstream, meaning not millions of people online played or tried the game?
When the community's where much smaller then we have today?
I felt SWG was the greatest MMORPG experiance ever, still doesn't mean I think or asume it would work today even if it polished or/and bug free. Of course it could work for a small minority and perhaps that's just good enough to make it long lasting.
But to be on topic. If it does have full player looting and stealing it still might gain enough people interested to play. The bigger picture would be how long would people remain interested.
Comments
Not at all, that is a well documented fact. Official CCP statistics.
There is nothing set in stone in that interview, they will try it out in alpha/beta and if the players like it they will add it to the final release.
I can assure you that the whiner carebears will remove that feature from the game.
And what was it with the sound? Couldnt hear some of what was said.
Easy solution for the Full Loot PVP crowd. Set a level barrier and a group modifier. You can only initiate combat on character(s) that are your level or higher. When in groups, the highest level character in the group dictates who the target can be and the group can have no more than a three to one advantage.
One big hit against Full Loot PVP is gear. If it is a PvP focused game, then the game economy needs to be based around crafting and trade, not loot from quests. This prevents a lot of the anger for the carebear players (myself included). If I just spent an hour or more clearing a dungeon for that one special shiny; I don't want john q ganker to come along when I exit the quest and have no resources left, and get an easy kill and take all the loot I just worked for. There is no risk v reward there.
Carebears can't remove something they can't even see.
The Magicpvpsliderbarthingy for the win.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
PvP that is more or less dictaded by the carebears, yes there is carebears that want to "try out" PvP in SotA but they wont do it if not certain conditions is cared for.
That is why i have see no future for this game, it will be just another carebear PvP game.
A good example on how PvE players want the last word on open PvP -
"You are wrong to think that "because PvE'ers have SPO (go play with yourself!) and FPO (go play with your other lame friends!)" that you, the PvP crowd, get to have the OPO mode.
OPO mode is for ANYONE (hey look, that includes PvE players!) to play with ANYONE else (including other PvE players they don't know!) and that mode should not FORCE anyone to PvP against their will, no matter how much you want them to have to. Period. End of story."
If there is just open PvP and not different types of open PvP then the PvP we will see in SotA will be the carebear version of PvP.
So the magic slider you're so fond of solve nothing for the felucca oldschool PvP players. SotA will be just another carebear PvP game.
Perfect. Carebears can try out OPO with slider set to PK and I'll gank them and they'll run back to OPO mode with the slider set to kitten and they'll be safe macro crafting in their pretty little houses and never come out.
Where exactly is the problem? I mean it is nice to grief nubs and carebears, but there are going to be plenty of targets and since Portalarium KNOWS ppl will opt into PvP and those ppl will get good pvp.
I dont want to have to say this again, so open up your frackin ears. There is no need to water down PvP for any reason what so ever as those who don't wish to play it, WONT PLAY IT OR BE AFFECTED BY IT. That leaves PKs and PvPs a good system.
Church.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
Switching modes can only be done back in the towns, which are safe areas. So if they make it back to town, yes, they can switch modes. If they don't make it back to town, you get to kill them.
**
Church?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I will still go back to my statement on the PvP not being a factor in whether the game is successful or not.
If the developers have full loot PvP, it will not affect the people who don't enjoy it, because they won't be visible to the PvP players. This is known. It's one of the core concepts of the game. Players even have the option of playing in online single player mode.
If they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
It doesn't matter either way. The game will succeed or fail because of many things, the PvP included, but not because of the PvP itself.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP. They are doing things that contribute to the world, but it's not PvP. Eve players are also very loyal to Eve. Each year as Eve gets older, the average age of Eve players gets a year older. Those players aren't going to leave Eve for SotA.
If SotA doesn't have full loot PvP, not enough people will care for it to affect the game's overall success. That doesn't mean nobody will care, just that it's not going to be a deciding factor in the game's success or failure.
**
Also, Eve has 500k accounts, but we don't really know how many players they have since having multiple accounts is apparently common, and accepted.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You do know 80% of Eve world constitutes as "trammel" ?
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Some major differences. CCP's own number have stated that the average player has 2-3 accounts, and that most players play in High-sec (safe zones). EVE has major safe area, that most people play in, EVE is also different then most FFA MMO's in that if you blow up a player all you get is what is on that ship at that time. Most players when they expect to go into pvp (and yes most of them chose when and when they don't pvp) they have no items of any worth on them. The only thing a player loses is the cost of the ship, and even that can be lowered. You don't have to PVP in EVE unless you want to, you can spend years never fighting another player in a ship, and still play many aspects of the game. CCP's own number again, most players make their ISK(in game money) in high-sec(safe areas).
I agree with this...All the constant complaints about better AI in mobs, yet the best "AI" come from playing against other players.
Gank fest, well of course there will be..why you have to pick your fights, I think the fear comes from not wanting to or just being bad at learning how to fight against a dynamic opponent . And while yes sometimes it is due to gear, you can thank modern mmo's for that crap.
I recently have been playing an old build of UO (pre Trammel) and having a blast at it. Being watchful and knowing how to survive adds that much more to the game.
That last part is very iffy. Most of the money comes from rare minerals controlled by corps, in low sec.
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Actually, but all public numbers, it's the second most subscribed to MMO, so yes, it is.
And no one is saying it is populated by one type of player but you. You're pretending that just because a game has FFA PvP, only one type of player can enjoy it? You contradict yourself with your own weird logic. Eve proves that a game can have FFA PvP and sustain itself quite well.
But do tell me, what other MMO has over 500k paying subscribers? I'll help. Rift doesn't. SWTOR doesn't. LotRO doesn't. AoC doesn't. Vanguard doesn't. WAR doesn't. EQ2 doesn't.
Yeah some never evolve in games they continue to play games with the win button implemented.
Some PvE players even claim NPC mobs are harder then real people, just amazing.
Trust me, if Darkfall was under another company... it would be lightyears better! Open world pvp/pk/loot has a huge fanbase! We just don't have a proper game to support this style so far
Aye. There havent been a AAA game with those features implemented hardcore. Soft yes but not as it was in felucca UO.
As pointed out by people before, Richard Gariott KNOWS the true numbers behind Felucca and UO and the introduction of Trammel. HE WAS THERE.
Presumably, then, he's well aware of which option is the best business option. Unless he's the type of person who's unable to learn from his own history, I guess. Maybe his own history showed that Felucca-Only UO is for the best. However, judging by what we know of SotA so far, I imagine Richard is trying to stay away from most of that, and he's probably doing that for a reason that he himself experienced first-hand.
As for Eve, saying Eve is the 2nd most popular Subscription-based MMO is almost like saying the woman Eve was the 2nd most popular human being in the Garden of Eden. Yea, other subscription MMOs exist right now, unlike other humans In the Garden of Eden, but they're so TERRIBLE or were so horribly mismanaged that they might as well not exist.
The problem with mmorpgs now a days isn't even in the "hardcore pvp" aspect... It is with general content and freedom to do what you want. A lot of mmo's are far too focused on just pvp OR pve (sometimes a little of both) but the main issue is it is always about combat and hitting things with weapons/spells. Games need more activities and variety of things you can do.
For example in UO not only was there open world pvp that allowed people to fight each other (if they chose to) but the ways in which they could do so without even using a weapon or spell, such as poisoned food, trapped chests, or the funniest one is portals in to very unpleasant places.
I love pvp but I hate it when it is just a linear game in either pvp or pve. I say make an mmorpg that lets people do lots of things, not just hit eachother or monsters/animals. Come on devs... Be creative.
Er, it's the other way around.
MMOs that have gone FTP have generally done so because the games weren't worth paying for.
Meanwhile, Eve has a FTP option, yet it still has 500k subscribers. Who knows how many players above 500k it has that are playing for free. It's not a small game.
So subs are how the market decides what's popular ? You're trying to say a free to play game with 2+ million people paying ..you have no idea how much, is less popular because it doesn't have as many subs and I'm the one with weird logic ? You have flat out bad math skills it seems. Which would explain why you spend your day trying to prove something the industry learned 10+ years ago and doesn't seem to be falling over themselves to retest.
And I said the >5% couldn't support a game, you are trying to twist that like always. You pulled eve out of your ass to straw man that and I simply pointed out that not only does it not have 500k people playing, they're not all part of the 5% you were implying.
Sorry?
UO proved that when internet was not mainstream, meaning not millions of people online played or tried the game?
When the community's where much smaller then we have today?
I felt SWG was the greatest MMORPG experiance ever, still doesn't mean I think or asume it would work today even if it polished or/and bug free. Of course it could work for a small minority and perhaps that's just good enough to make it long lasting.
But to be on topic. If it does have full player looting and stealing it still might gain enough people interested to play. The bigger picture would be how long would people remain interested.