Originally posted by Darth-Batman Because Darkfall is a shining example of a success story? All those open-world-pvp-full-loot games have something in common, they all struggle. All the 'hardcore' players chase away potential customers with their ganking until the community dies off. Players like me are left with nothing to do but hunt noob-hunters, which gets boring after day one and after day two all the 'noobs' have quit due to gankers small penile syndrome. I hope Shroud doesnt follow this pattern because if it does, chances are it'll share the same fate as Mortal Online and DF.
Trust me, if Darkfall was under another company... it would be lightyears better! Open world pvp/pk/loot has a huge fanbase! We just don't have a proper game to support this style so far
That's the biggest issue right there highlighted red.
If people would actually support the game offering it in what ever kind of way then developers would know there is a market for it and will polish it much more. Since the support of even well made but not A-tittle worthy don't even get enough people while given their player excactly that what they ask for then how would some of you even consider hoping on a A-tittle taking that risk.
Originally posted by DamonVile another endless thread where the >5% try and pretend like they could actually support a real mmo again ?
I guess Eve, the second most popular MMO on the market, isn't a real MMO?
It's not the second most popular by a long shot and it's not only populated by one type of player.
The fact that you would even say something like that shows just how flimsy your facts are. It has 500k subs that is notorious for people multiboxing in. 500k players ( which it doesn't have ) wouldn't even put it in the top 10.
Actually, but all public numbers, it's the second most subscribed to MMO, so yes, it is.
And no one is saying it is populated by one type of player but you. You're pretending that just because a game has FFA PvP, only one type of player can enjoy it? You contradict yourself with your own weird logic. Eve proves that a game can have FFA PvP and sustain itself quite well.
But do tell me, what other MMO has over 500k paying subscribers? I'll help. Rift doesn't. SWTOR doesn't. LotRO doesn't. AoC doesn't. Vanguard doesn't. WAR doesn't. EQ2 doesn't.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Some major differences. CCP's own number have stated that the average player has 2-3 accounts, and that most players play in High-sec (safe zones). High-sec is not a safe zone. It's a safER zone. EVE has major safe area nope, that most people play in, EVE is also different then most FFA MMO's in that if you blow up a player all you get is what is on that ship at that time. That's not different at all actually. In FFA MMOs, you drop whats on your body, which is actually LESS of a penalty than death in Eve where you lose an expensive ship and possibly a ton of skills if you get podded. Most players when they expect to go into pvp (and yes most of them chose when and when they don't pvp) Er, some do. Many don't. Because it's FFA and you can get attacked at any time no matter where you are. they have no items of any worth on them. Wrong. The only thing a player loses is the cost of the ship, and even that can be lowered. And the aforementioned skills. You don't have to PVP in EVE unless you want to wrong, you can spend years never fighting another player in a ship, true and still play many aspects of the game. CCP's own number again, most players make their ISK(in game money) in high-sec(safe areas).
That last part is very iffy. Most of the money comes from rare minerals controlled by corps, in low sec.
LOL I have played EVE for years. When its said and done High-sec is a safe zone. Sure you can be still attacked but that is very very rare.
The Differences is that in FFA MMO's whats on your body is what you care about. And losing that you lose just about everything. You now are at a disadvantage in trying to get that gear back. Same is not true in EVE. Death in EVE is only as bad as you wish it to be, common thing to say is "only fly what you can afford to lose" Same can't be said for most FFA Fantasy MMO's.
Again just because you can attack people in high sec this does not mean that it happens. As you don't seem to understand the game, all players can take very easy steps to almost never get attacked in high-sec. Not the same as FFA MMO's in anyway, so in most respects high-sec is safe.
You clearly don't play EVE, sorry but you don't have to PVP if you don't want to. You can spend years and never EVER get attacked in high-sec. Sure it can happen but its a very rare chance, so rare that you can say never.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by DavisFlightOriginally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP. Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
PvP, even hardcore PvP is not necessarily a turn off to new players and will not necessarily tank a game. This is true.
That doesn't prove that SotA needs the hard core PvP rule set as stated in the thread title. Having the hard core PvP rule set as stated in the thread title will not necessarily tank the game.
It doesn't prove that Eve's player base matters to SotA either. For Eve's player base to matter to SotA, Eve players would have to play SotA instead of Eve. Given the tenacity that Eve players stick with Eve, this doesn't seem likely.
Without Eve's PvP population, which numbers at least 250k accounts/players/whatever, what else is there? Where are these masses of people that if they do not play SotA, it will tank? They don't exist in numbers great enough to matter. Even if they were numerous, and could all agree on what type of game to play, there are enough people who outright do not like the hard core PvP rule sets that SotA could skip the hard core PvP rule set and grab those players, ending up just fine.
If SotA doesn't implement that hard core PvP rule set, they'll be fine, because there are enough people that don't care about or do not want the hard core PvP rule set that SotA will be fine.
If SotA does implement that hard core PvP rule set, they'll be fine, because the players have many options when deciding how they play: Single Player, Single Player Online, Online With Friends, Online With Filters. The Filters option prevents the PvE and PvP people from even seeing each other. The griefing that PvE players complain about won't happen. The PvE complaints that PvP players complain about won't happen.
If the game tanks, something other than the PvP rule set is going to do it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Perfect. Carebears can try out OPO with slider set to PK and I'll gank them and they'll run back to OPO mode with the slider set to kitten and they'll be safe macro crafting in their pretty little houses and never come out.
Where exactly is the problem? I mean it is nice to grief nubs and carebears, but there are going to be plenty of targets and since Portalarium KNOWS ppl will opt into PvP and those ppl will get good pvp.
I dont want to have to say this again, so open up your frackin ears. There is no need to water down PvP for any reason what so ever as those who don't wish to play it, WONT PLAY IT OR BE AFFECTED BY IT. That leaves PKs and PvPs a good system.
Church.
Switching modes can only be done back in the towns, which are safe areas. So if they make it back to town, yes, they can switch modes. If they don't make it back to town, you get to kill them.
**
Church?
I dont much care how or when anyone switches modes, my point though is that little girls who don't want to PvP will not weaken my gameplay because they will not Opt into PvP. They will not PvP because they have a choice not to PvP, so there is no reason for them to cry for changes to PvP or weak PvP, so there is no need for the SotA devs to even read threads or cries asking for weak PvP.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Perfect. Carebears can try out OPO with slider set to PK and I'll gank them and they'll run back to OPO mode with the slider set to kitten and they'll be safe macro crafting in their pretty little houses and never come out. Where exactly is the problem? I mean it is nice to grief nubs and carebears, but there are going to be plenty of targets and since Portalarium KNOWS ppl will opt into PvP and those ppl will get good pvp.I dont want to have to say this again, so open up your frackin ears. There is no need to water down PvP for any reason what so ever as those who don't wish to play it, WONT PLAY IT OR BE AFFECTED BY IT. That leaves PKs and PvPs a good system.Church.
Switching modes can only be done back in the towns, which are safe areas. So if they make it back to town, yes, they can switch modes. If they don't make it back to town, you get to kill them. ** Church?
I dont much care how or when anyone switches modes, my point though is that little girls who don't want to PvP will not weaken my gameplay because they will not Opt into PvP. They will not PvP because they have a choice not to PvP, so there is no reason for them to cry for changes to PvP or weak PvP, so there is no need for the SotA devs to even read threads or cries asking for weak PvP. Simple as that boys and girls.
[mod edit]
That's just it. They don't have to. If they can filter out PvP players from PvE players, they can filter out HCPvP(tm) players from CBPvP(tm) players.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Perfect. Carebears can try out OPO with slider set to PK and I'll gank them and they'll run back to OPO mode with the slider set to kitten and they'll be safe macro crafting in their pretty little houses and never come out.
Where exactly is the problem? I mean it is nice to grief nubs and carebears, but there are going to be plenty of targets and since Portalarium KNOWS ppl will opt into PvP and those ppl will get good pvp.
I dont want to have to say this again, so open up your frackin ears. There is no need to water down PvP for any reason what so ever as those who don't wish to play it, WONT PLAY IT OR BE AFFECTED BY IT. That leaves PKs and PvPs a good system.
Church.
Switching modes can only be done back in the towns, which are safe areas. So if they make it back to town, yes, they can switch modes. If they don't make it back to town, you get to kill them.
**
Church?
I dont much care how or when anyone switches modes, my point though is that little girls who don't want to PvP will not weaken my gameplay because they will not Opt into PvP. They will not PvP because they have a choice not to PvP, so there is no reason for them to cry for changes to PvP or weak PvP, so there is no need for the SotA devs to even read threads or cries asking for weak PvP.
Simple as that boys and girls.
[mod edit]
It isn't ignorance when the people constructing the game have said that since PvE players who don't want to PvP will be able to opt out and that they are more than willing to turn the PvP up a notch from the standard norm cookiecutter junk you get today in 99% of all other online games.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Perfect. Carebears can try out OPO with slider set to PK and I'll gank them and they'll run back to OPO mode with the slider set to kitten and they'll be safe macro crafting in their pretty little houses and never come out.
Where exactly is the problem? I mean it is nice to grief nubs and carebears, but there are going to be plenty of targets and since Portalarium KNOWS ppl will opt into PvP and those ppl will get good pvp.
I dont want to have to say this again, so open up your frackin ears. There is no need to water down PvP for any reason what so ever as those who don't wish to play it, WONT PLAY IT OR BE AFFECTED BY IT. That leaves PKs and PvPs a good system.
Church.
Switching modes can only be done back in the towns, which are safe areas. So if they make it back to town, yes, they can switch modes. If they don't make it back to town, you get to kill them.
**
Church?
I dont much care how or when anyone switches modes, my point though is that little girls who don't want to PvP will not weaken my gameplay because they will not Opt into PvP. They will not PvP because they have a choice not to PvP, so there is no reason for them to cry for changes to PvP or weak PvP, so there is no need for the SotA devs to even read threads or cries asking for weak PvP.
Simple as that boys and girls.
[mod edit]
It isn't ignorance when the people constructing the game have said that since PvE players who don't want to PvP will be able to opt out and that they are more than willing to turn the PvP up a notch from the standard norm cookiecutter junk you get today in 99% of all other online games.
Yes it is ignorant since developers talk about turnbased PvP and a magic system like magic the gathering with random cards popping up on screen. I cant choose myself what spell to cast.
To me that is not turning PvP up a notch. It is pleasing the ones that prefer a less skillbased PvP aka PvE players.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
And areas where anything goes will be PvP heaven.
No.
Yes, you have to read up abit better on how PvP will work in hardcore PvP areas.
Boarding will be easy if you use missiles that dont hurt the ship but only the engine. Voila, easy mode to board a ship and that will happen alot.
Care bears will have a hard time in areas with low security and i will be there with my guild to show you.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
And areas where anything goes will be PvP heaven.
No.
Yes, you have to read up abit better on how PvP will work in hardcore PvP areas.
Boarding will be easy if you use missiles that dont hurt the ship but only the engine. Voila, easy mode to board a ship and that will happen alot.
Care bears will have a hard time in areas with low security and i will be there with my guild to show you.
LOL, you act like you know how it will work. We have ZERO information on how Boarding will work other than it will be rare and hard. We have ZERO information on how missiles will work. So nice of you to make this stuff up.
SC is not a PVP game, it was never going to be and never will be a PVP game, If you go into it thinking its a PVP game you are in for a shock. Let alone a hardcore pvp game.
Please take your own advice and read up on the game. You are badly misinformed.
The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.
If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.
They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Right, because all those hardcore full loot PvP games are kicking ass and taking names...
Yeah, I find those kinds of statements very very funny. The "hardcore crowd" is probably about 1% of the gamers out there, and the fact that it is always said that if a game doesn't cater for 1% of its audience, it will flop.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
And areas where anything goes will be PvP heaven.
No.
Yes, you have to read up abit better on how PvP will work in hardcore PvP areas.
Boarding will be easy if you use missiles that dont hurt the ship but only the engine. Voila, easy mode to board a ship and that will happen alot.
Care bears will have a hard time in areas with low security and i will be there with my guild to show you.
LOL, you act like you know how it will work. We have ZERO information on how Boarding will work other than it will be rare and hard. We have ZERO information on how missiles will work. So nice of you to make this stuff up.
SC is not a PVP game, it was never going to be and never will be a PVP game, If you go into it thinking its a PVP game you are in for a shock. Let alone a hardcore pvp game.
Please take your own advice and read up on the game. You are badly misinformed.
That thread is 30 pages long and just about all in this thread know that the game will allow hard-core PvP for the ones that choose that gamestyle.
Will be fun.
Chris Roberts own words on PvP -
A substantial portion of the sandbox fans in our audience are hungering for a game that doesn't force them to PvP but still features a dynamic, player-driven world, co-op opportunities, and opportunities for both economic conquest and exciting/meaningful PvE. Is Star Citizen the game for those people?
Yes. Star Citizen doesn't shy away from PvP, but we're not building a game around it either. We want experiences for everyone, from loners who do not want to play a multiplayer game at all to large squadrons who want to tangle with each other in major galactic warfare. So you'll have everything from distant stars to be discovered on your own to Vanduul invasions to be fended off. We're creating different experiences for different kinds of players, and then we're wrapping them up together in the same world. My dream is to have both PvE and PvP players in the same persistent universe, with both of them feeling that they inhabit a dynamic living universe with plenty of opportunity and challenge without feeling that they are giving anything up. I kind of see it like a swimming pool with a shallow and deep end: Players can venture out as far as they want, at their own pace. They aren't thrown in the deep end at the start, but they also don't have to stay in the shallow end if they want more of a challenge.
That's the concept of the slider and the different levels of law and order in the various systems. If you want to make a nice steady living being a trader in the heart of the UEE, you don't have to worry about being attacked by other players, but if you're looking for more of a return or score and are willing to take some risks by venturing into unregulated space, we have that for you too. This way the player can choose dynamically during his play session what he's interested in -- it could be a dynamic blend of the two types or just PvE or PvP, but it will be contextual and make sense in the lore of the universe rather than an artificial construct like asking a player whether he wants to be on a PvE world server or a PvP server.
I choose to do hardcore PvP with a little PvE, what do you choose?
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
And areas where anything goes will be PvP heaven.
No.
Yes, you have to read up abit better on how PvP will work in hardcore PvP areas.
Boarding will be easy if you use missiles that dont hurt the ship but only the engine. Voila, easy mode to board a ship and that will happen alot.
Care bears will have a hard time in areas with low security and i will be there with my guild to show you.
LOL, you act like you know how it will work. We have ZERO information on how Boarding will work other than it will be rare and hard. We have ZERO information on how missiles will work. So nice of you to make this stuff up.
SC is not a PVP game, it was never going to be and never will be a PVP game, If you go into it thinking its a PVP game you are in for a shock. Let alone a hardcore pvp game.
Please take your own advice and read up on the game. You are badly misinformed.
That thread is 30 pages long and just about all in this thread know that the game will allow hard-core PvP for the ones that choose that gamestyle.
Will be fun.
Chris Roberts own words on PvP -
A substantial portion of the sandbox fans in our audience are hungering for a game that doesn't force them to PvP but still features a dynamic, player-driven world, co-op opportunities, and opportunities for both economic conquest and exciting/meaningful PvE. Is Star Citizen the game for those people?
Yes. Star Citizen doesn't shy away from PvP, but we're not building a game around it either. We want experiences for everyone, from loners who do not want to play a multiplayer game at all to large squadrons who want to tangle with each other in major galactic warfare. So you'll have everything from distant stars to be discovered on your own to Vanduul invasions to be fended off. We're creating different experiences for different kinds of players, and then we're wrapping them up together in the same world. My dream is to have both PvE and PvP players in the same persistent universe, with both of them feeling that they inhabit a dynamic living universe with plenty of opportunity and challenge without feeling that they are giving anything up. I kind of see it like a swimming pool with a shallow and deep end: Players can venture out as far as they want, at their own pace. They aren't thrown in the deep end at the start, but they also don't have to stay in the shallow end if they want more of a challenge.
That's the concept of the slider and the different levels of law and order in the various systems. If you want to make a nice steady living being a trader in the heart of the UEE, you don't have to worry about being attacked by other players, but if you're looking for more of a return or score and are willing to take some risks by venturing into unregulated space, we have that for you too. This way the player can choose dynamically during his play session what he's interested in -- it could be a dynamic blend of the two types or just PvE or PvP, but it will be contextual and make sense in the lore of the universe rather than an artificial construct like asking a player whether he wants to be on a PvE world server or a PvP server.
I choose to do hardcore PvP with a little PvE, what do you choose?
From Ben one of the Dev.
" I don’t know where the claim that this game is all about PvP is coming from. We’re building the universe as a setting for some serious PvE (and PvR) scenarios… the fact that we ‘allow’ PvP isn’t to say that it’s what we want the game to be about.
Our goal, which I think is tripping up a lot of people, is to ALLOW griefing… but to build a game that prevents you from wanting to engage in it. That is, putting the onus on us developers to create a system that punishes people for deciding to break the in-game law instead of a system that just stops you from shooting people. Can we do it? Chris thinks so…
Chris is very against forcing people not to be able to PVP artificially and thinks we can balance the game in such a way that it’s not an issue. Beyond that which we’ve already said, I’m not sure what else we could add to mollify folks… it’s going to be one of those “trust us and we’ll fix it if we screw up” things."
So not sure where you are getting your Hard Core pvp from.
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf they don't have full loot "hard core" PvP, it won't matter because there just aren't that many people who care about full loot "hard core" PvP.
Where does this myth come from? Eve has 500k+ subscribers who beg to differ. You know, the second most subs in the entire genre.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
Agree.
Star Citizen a game with open PvP and full loot and all play the same game. They will soon have 21 million $ in pledges.
Guess full loot and open PvP draw players. My guild will play that game, noone is interested in SotA.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
And areas where anything goes will be PvP heaven.
No.
Yes, you have to read up abit better on how PvP will work in hardcore PvP areas.
Boarding will be easy if you use missiles that dont hurt the ship but only the engine. Voila, easy mode to board a ship and that will happen alot.
Care bears will have a hard time in areas with low security and i will be there with my guild to show you.
LOL, you act like you know how it will work. We have ZERO information on how Boarding will work other than it will be rare and hard. We have ZERO information on how missiles will work. So nice of you to make this stuff up.
SC is not a PVP game, it was never going to be and never will be a PVP game, If you go into it thinking its a PVP game you are in for a shock. Let alone a hardcore pvp game.
Please take your own advice and read up on the game. You are badly misinformed.
That thread is 30 pages long and just about all in this thread know that the game will allow hard-core PvP for the ones that choose that gamestyle.
Will be fun.
Chris Roberts own words on PvP -
A substantial portion of the sandbox fans in our audience are hungering for a game that doesn't force them to PvP but still features a dynamic, player-driven world, co-op opportunities, and opportunities for both economic conquest and exciting/meaningful PvE. Is Star Citizen the game for those people?
Yes. Star Citizen doesn't shy away from PvP, but we're not building a game around it either. We want experiences for everyone, from loners who do not want to play a multiplayer game at all to large squadrons who want to tangle with each other in major galactic warfare. So you'll have everything from distant stars to be discovered on your own to Vanduul invasions to be fended off. We're creating different experiences for different kinds of players, and then we're wrapping them up together in the same world. My dream is to have both PvE and PvP players in the same persistent universe, with both of them feeling that they inhabit a dynamic living universe with plenty of opportunity and challenge without feeling that they are giving anything up. I kind of see it like a swimming pool with a shallow and deep end: Players can venture out as far as they want, at their own pace. They aren't thrown in the deep end at the start, but they also don't have to stay in the shallow end if they want more of a challenge.
That's the concept of the slider and the different levels of law and order in the various systems. If you want to make a nice steady living being a trader in the heart of the UEE, you don't have to worry about being attacked by other players, but if you're looking for more of a return or score and are willing to take some risks by venturing into unregulated space, we have that for you too. This way the player can choose dynamically during his play session what he's interested in -- it could be a dynamic blend of the two types or just PvE or PvP, but it will be contextual and make sense in the lore of the universe rather than an artificial construct like asking a player whether he wants to be on a PvE world server or a PvP server.
I choose to do hardcore PvP with a little PvE, what do you choose?
From Ben one of the Dev.
" I don’t know where the claim that this game is all about PvP is coming from. We’re building the universe as a setting for some serious PvE (and PvR) scenarios… the fact that we ‘allow’ PvP isn’t to say that it’s what we want the game to be about.
Our goal, which I think is tripping up a lot of people, is to ALLOW griefing… but to build a game that prevents you from wanting to engage in it. That is, putting the onus on us developers to create a system that punishes people for deciding to break the in-game law instead of a system that just stops you from shooting people. Can we do it? Chris thinks so…
Chris is very against forcing people not to be able to PVP artificially and thinks we can balance the game in such a way that it’s not an issue. Beyond that which we’ve already said, I’m not sure what else we could add to mollify folks… it’s going to be one of those “trust us and we’ll fix it if we screw up” things."
So not sure where you are getting your Hard Core pvp from.
If you read my last reply then you understand where i got it. It's all there.
There will be a hard core PvP game in SC. But there will also be a game for others that dont enjoy PvP as much. No safe zones but some are safer. In lawless areas i can attack anyone, even you if you enter my space. Everyone can be attacked everywhere but risk for the attacker is way higher in safer areas. I like risk vs reward games and that is what SC is.
There will also be non-consensual PvP and griefing in SC.
This you cant find in Shroud of the Avatar and thats why i most likely will play Star Citizen instead. I payed for both and will try both but so far Star Citizen seems to be my type of game.
Full Loot does not make PvP more immersive nor "better", it will in fact reduce the amount of PvP, and here are the reasons why:
1 - Full Loot just supports ganking and griefing
A full loot system will only support group griefing. You won't find fair 1 vs 1 (2 vs 2 etc.) situations in a full loot world, which will end up with the bad ol' counter argument "Then go play in a guild bi**ch", which won't work either, because you force players in certain roles, that the greater amount of peope will not like.
2 - Loosing your Gear due to point 1 prevents 'casual' people from taking part in PvP encounters
Because the don't have the backup from a guild constantly re-equipping them when they die. That means extremly boring crafting and reequipment times, that simply will stop the player from taking part in PvP or even make him quit.
3 - Due to 2, "Casual" Players don't will seek combat actively
The much liked "Sheriff" playstyle or simply an initiative to fight a possibly stronger opponent gets completely annoying.
Those points are often combined with silly gameplay decisions, that will increment the frustration of players:
- Due to full loot, Equipment must be rather fast replaceable, which means that gear has no meaning or representive purpose anymore, everyone playing in a guild will have the same cooky butter gear, the casuals will have low tier stuff which will disadvantage them even more.
- Due to full loot combined with perma-death of mounts, the reequipment process gets even worse. Your mount is nothing but a fire and forget way to just move through the world, bye bye immersion or personality.
- Due to shared Skill points, alternate chars / twinks etc. loose the ability to put enough points into combat, which makes them pure victims in the wilderness (see 1)
- many more issues here, like to much gear dependent advantages, too much alts per account etc. etc.
The solution would be to replace the dull player ganking with game mechanics that are TRULY immersive and valuable, like meaningfull territory control of rare points of interests, to get rid of frustrating points like i stated above and to add mechanics, that will make simple ganking uninteresting. Then you got meaningfull PvP, but I have the feeling, that most of the "hardcore" flicks out there don't want that, because the like to be the gankers themselfes.
Oh, and if you are asking: A perfect example of not doing it right is Mortal Online.
Originally posted by VikingGamer UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.
Not really, if they did not switch it up to tram, and all the rest the game would be long dead. Just look at the free shards that have like 300 people. Full loot pvp games, always dont last long, unless the pvp is wanted by both sides. Those games, besides one have the worst people imaginable playing. The only people that end up staying, are lonely grumpy men, and their wives, or young kids. All they do all day, is complain about their lives, and then complain about the lives in the game.
Originally posted by VikingGamer UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.
Yeah UO felucca was blooming even after trammel and that showed the potential full loot non-consensual games have. There are so many players that would love to play a new UO.
SotA would be more successful and have more followers if they like Star Citizen went full loot and had non-consensual PvP.
Comments
That's the biggest issue right there highlighted red.
If people would actually support the game offering it in what ever kind of way then developers would know there is a market for it and will polish it much more. Since the support of even well made but not A-tittle worthy don't even get enough people while given their player excactly that what they ask for then how would some of you even consider hoping on a A-tittle taking that risk.
LOL I have played EVE for years. When its said and done High-sec is a safe zone. Sure you can be still attacked but that is very very rare.
The Differences is that in FFA MMO's whats on your body is what you care about. And losing that you lose just about everything. You now are at a disadvantage in trying to get that gear back. Same is not true in EVE. Death in EVE is only as bad as you wish it to be, common thing to say is "only fly what you can afford to lose" Same can't be said for most FFA Fantasy MMO's.
Again just because you can attack people in high sec this does not mean that it happens. As you don't seem to understand the game, all players can take very easy steps to almost never get attacked in high-sec. Not the same as FFA MMO's in anyway, so in most respects high-sec is safe.
You clearly don't play EVE, sorry but you don't have to PVP if you don't want to. You can spend years and never EVER get attacked in high-sec. Sure it can happen but its a very rare chance, so rare that you can say never.
Star Citizen is a PVE game with PVP enabled. Most fights will be PVE. You can also insure all your stuff to get it back. You can also stay in safe area's and have very little chance of fighting another player.
Yes but you can still go to felucca in space and loot every single item the other guy had with him. It's not what all will do but many will. It is just as much a PvP game for the ones that prefer that gamestyle.
Insurance is bad but i guess we cant have it all, it is still very interesting. And insurance dont remove the loot i as the killer get, it just make 2 versions of loot, 1 for me and 1 for the other guy that just died. So it is in practice full loot.
Does not really work that way. It is not as much of a PVP game. Even in none protected space most of your fights will still be with PVE ships. And if by full loot you mean when you disable and board another ship, then sure, but that will be very rare. You will not be able to destroy another ship and loot its weapons or any of its "items". Even the cargo will mostly be destroyed on ship destruction. And the fact of the insurance means that people will not be set back when they lose in pvp, this is very different than a FFA fantasy MMO were the lose basically starts over. The point is that CIG have said over and over again that SC is a PVE game with pvp enabled, SC will not be the hardcore pvp game many people think it is.
CIG are also taking steps to make PVP painful for the attacker and "hopefully" make you think twice before you attack another player. Have to wait an see if that will happen.
Wrong you can blow someones ship up and they lose their cargo and ship attachments and some of that will be left for you to scoop up. You can also board someones ship murder them and take the ship for yourself. There will be safer areas for those of you who don't like this, but you will never be completely safe. There will also be areas that are anything goes.
And areas where anything goes will be PvP heaven.
Half or more of those people don't actively participate in PvP.
Yet they're playing in a game with FFA PvP, showing that it doesn't automatically make people not play a game. Also, there's no way to be 100% safe from PvP in Eve, so even if they don't shoot other people, they are participating in PvP and the game world itself.
As for 500k "accounts" we can say the same thing about any MMO. "We don't know how many of WoWs couple million western subs are actually unique accounts, let's discount all of it!".
PvP, even hardcore PvP is not necessarily a turn off to new players and will not necessarily tank a game. This is true.
That doesn't prove that SotA needs the hard core PvP rule set as stated in the thread title. Having the hard core PvP rule set as stated in the thread title will not necessarily tank the game.
It doesn't prove that Eve's player base matters to SotA either. For Eve's player base to matter to SotA, Eve players would have to play SotA instead of Eve. Given the tenacity that Eve players stick with Eve, this doesn't seem likely.
Without Eve's PvP population, which numbers at least 250k accounts/players/whatever, what else is there? Where are these masses of people that if they do not play SotA, it will tank? They don't exist in numbers great enough to matter. Even if they were numerous, and could all agree on what type of game to play, there are enough people who outright do not like the hard core PvP rule sets that SotA could skip the hard core PvP rule set and grab those players, ending up just fine.
If SotA doesn't implement that hard core PvP rule set, they'll be fine, because there are enough people that don't care about or do not want the hard core PvP rule set that SotA will be fine.
If SotA does implement that hard core PvP rule set, they'll be fine, because the players have many options when deciding how they play: Single Player, Single Player Online, Online With Friends, Online With Filters. The Filters option prevents the PvE and PvP people from even seeing each other. The griefing that PvE players complain about won't happen. The PvE complaints that PvP players complain about won't happen.
If the game tanks, something other than the PvP rule set is going to do it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No.
I dont much care how or when anyone switches modes, my point though is that little girls who don't want to PvP will not weaken my gameplay because they will not Opt into PvP. They will not PvP because they have a choice not to PvP, so there is no reason for them to cry for changes to PvP or weak PvP, so there is no need for the SotA devs to even read threads or cries asking for weak PvP.
Simple as that boys and girls.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
That's just it. They don't have to. If they can filter out PvP players from PvE players, they can filter out HCPvP(tm) players from CBPvP(tm) players.I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It isn't ignorance when the people constructing the game have said that since PvE players who don't want to PvP will be able to opt out and that they are more than willing to turn the PvP up a notch from the standard norm cookiecutter junk you get today in 99% of all other online games.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
Yes it is ignorant since developers talk about turnbased PvP and a magic system like magic the gathering with random cards popping up on screen. I cant choose myself what spell to cast.
To me that is not turning PvP up a notch. It is pleasing the ones that prefer a less skillbased PvP aka PvE players.
Yes, you have to read up abit better on how PvP will work in hardcore PvP areas.
Boarding will be easy if you use missiles that dont hurt the ship but only the engine. Voila, easy mode to board a ship and that will happen alot.
Care bears will have a hard time in areas with low security and i will be there with my guild to show you.
LOL, you act like you know how it will work. We have ZERO information on how Boarding will work other than it will be rare and hard. We have ZERO information on how missiles will work. So nice of you to make this stuff up.
SC is not a PVP game, it was never going to be and never will be a PVP game, If you go into it thinking its a PVP game you are in for a shock. Let alone a hardcore pvp game.
Please take your own advice and read up on the game. You are badly misinformed.
Just for some info
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/19/stick-and-rudder-extra-chris-roberts-on-star-citizens-persiste/
Right, because all those hardcore full loot PvP games are kicking ass and taking names...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Yeah, I find those kinds of statements very very funny. The "hardcore crowd" is probably about 1% of the gamers out there, and the fact that it is always said that if a game doesn't cater for 1% of its audience, it will flop.
lol much.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
LOL, then there will be alot of followers that already know that SC will have non-consensual PvP that will be very unhappy -
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/60440/lets-discuss-the-uncomfortable-truth-what-happens-if-this-game-has-non-consensual-pvp/p1
That thread is 30 pages long and just about all in this thread know that the game will allow hard-core PvP for the ones that choose that gamestyle.
Will be fun.
Chris Roberts own words on PvP -
A substantial portion of the sandbox fans in our audience are hungering for a game that doesn't force them to PvP but still features a dynamic, player-driven world, co-op opportunities, and opportunities for both economic conquest and exciting/meaningful PvE. Is Star Citizen the game for those people?
Yes. Star Citizen doesn't shy away from PvP, but we're not building a game around it either. We want experiences for everyone, from loners who do not want to play a multiplayer game at all to large squadrons who want to tangle with each other in major galactic warfare. So you'll have everything from distant stars to be discovered on your own to Vanduul invasions to be fended off. We're creating different experiences for different kinds of players, and then we're wrapping them up together in the same world. My dream is to have both PvE and PvP players in the same persistent universe, with both of them feeling that they inhabit a dynamic living universe with plenty of opportunity and challenge without feeling that they are giving anything up. I kind of see it like a swimming pool with a shallow and deep end: Players can venture out as far as they want, at their own pace. They aren't thrown in the deep end at the start, but they also don't have to stay in the shallow end if they want more of a challenge.
That's the concept of the slider and the different levels of law and order in the various systems. If you want to make a nice steady living being a trader in the heart of the UEE, you don't have to worry about being attacked by other players, but if you're looking for more of a return or score and are willing to take some risks by venturing into unregulated space, we have that for you too. This way the player can choose dynamically during his play session what he's interested in -- it could be a dynamic blend of the two types or just PvE or PvP, but it will be contextual and make sense in the lore of the universe rather than an artificial construct like asking a player whether he wants to be on a PvE world server or a PvP server.
I choose to do hardcore PvP with a little PvE, what do you choose?
From Ben one of the Dev.
" I don’t know where the claim that this game is all about PvP is coming from. We’re building the universe as a setting for some serious PvE (and PvR) scenarios… the fact that we ‘allow’ PvP isn’t to say that it’s what we want the game to be about.
Our goal, which I think is tripping up a lot of people, is to ALLOW griefing… but to build a game that prevents you from wanting to engage in it. That is, putting the onus on us developers to create a system that punishes people for deciding to break the in-game law instead of a system that just stops you from shooting people. Can we do it? Chris thinks so…
Chris is very against forcing people not to be able to PVP artificially and thinks we can balance the game in such a way that it’s not an issue. Beyond that which we’ve already said, I’m not sure what else we could add to mollify folks… it’s going to be one of those “trust us and we’ll fix it if we screw up” things."
So not sure where you are getting your Hard Core pvp from.
If you read my last reply then you understand where i got it. It's all there.
There will be a hard core PvP game in SC. But there will also be a game for others that dont enjoy PvP as much. No safe zones but some are safer. In lawless areas i can attack anyone, even you if you enter my space. Everyone can be attacked everywhere but risk for the attacker is way higher in safer areas. I like risk vs reward games and that is what SC is.
There will also be non-consensual PvP and griefing in SC.
This you cant find in Shroud of the Avatar and thats why i most likely will play Star Citizen instead. I payed for both and will try both but so far Star Citizen seems to be my type of game.
I could have swore that I was in a Shroud of the Avatar forum here.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
Full Loot does not make PvP more immersive nor "better", it will in fact reduce the amount of PvP, and here are the reasons why:
1 - Full Loot just supports ganking and griefing
A full loot system will only support group griefing. You won't find fair 1 vs 1 (2 vs 2 etc.) situations in a full loot world, which will end up with the bad ol' counter argument "Then go play in a guild bi**ch", which won't work either, because you force players in certain roles, that the greater amount of peope will not like.
2 - Loosing your Gear due to point 1 prevents 'casual' people from taking part in PvP encounters
Because the don't have the backup from a guild constantly re-equipping them when they die. That means extremly boring crafting and reequipment times, that simply will stop the player from taking part in PvP or even make him quit.
3 - Due to 2, "Casual" Players don't will seek combat actively
The much liked "Sheriff" playstyle or simply an initiative to fight a possibly stronger opponent gets completely annoying.
Those points are often combined with silly gameplay decisions, that will increment the frustration of players:
- Due to full loot, Equipment must be rather fast replaceable, which means that gear has no meaning or representive purpose anymore, everyone playing in a guild will have the same cooky butter gear, the casuals will have low tier stuff which will disadvantage them even more.
- Due to full loot combined with perma-death of mounts, the reequipment process gets even worse. Your mount is nothing but a fire and forget way to just move through the world, bye bye immersion or personality.
- Due to shared Skill points, alternate chars / twinks etc. loose the ability to put enough points into combat, which makes them pure victims in the wilderness (see 1)
- many more issues here, like to much gear dependent advantages, too much alts per account etc. etc.
The solution would be to replace the dull player ganking with game mechanics that are TRULY immersive and valuable, like meaningfull territory control of rare points of interests, to get rid of frustrating points like i stated above and to add mechanics, that will make simple ganking uninteresting. Then you got meaningfull PvP, but I have the feeling, that most of the "hardcore" flicks out there don't want that, because the like to be the gankers themselfes.
Oh, and if you are asking: A perfect example of not doing it right is Mortal Online.
Not really, if they did not switch it up to tram, and all the rest the game would be long dead. Just look at the free shards that have like 300 people. Full loot pvp games, always dont last long, unless the pvp is wanted by both sides. Those games, besides one have the worst people imaginable playing. The only people that end up staying, are lonely grumpy men, and their wives, or young kids. All they do all day, is complain about their lives, and then complain about the lives in the game.Yeah UO felucca was blooming even after trammel and that showed the potential full loot non-consensual games have. There are so many players that would love to play a new UO.
SotA would be more successful and have more followers if they like Star Citizen went full loot and had non-consensual PvP.