Could i produce a AAA MMO that i like? Yeah, no problem.
Could i produce a AAA MMO that enough people like to make back the investment of $100 million? Doubtful, i would like it but not many others i fear.
I think almost every MMO player has their dream MMO or at least a rough outline of what it would be. The problem is that even with $100 million you would not be able to please all let alone a significant amount to make back the money.
Could a fully community driven MMO be the solution? A democratic system where everyone can vote on all major decisions? A MMO that offers choice and involvement into the development process?
I think it might be worth a try, an experiment that would be interesting to see and i would certainly do that if i was given that amount of money.
Something like these guys are doing:
Limbic Entertainment, who are building the handsome new Might & Magic game for Ubisoft, have just announced the start of “Open Dev” for the game. But what does this cryptic phrase mean? Which part of the current community-infused, early-access, crowdy gaming zeitgeist are they actually riffing off here? Well, it’s… different. They are allowing us to vote on various aspects of how they develop the game overall. For example, right now you can vote on how a dungeon gets made. The explain: “This week we’ll start with the general concept. The vote will be open until next Tuesday. After you have decided for one general concept, we will go into detail. So stay tuned for the dungeon fine tuning!”
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Could i in theory produce a MMO. Yes... Could i practically do it... No, not by a mile. I lack the XP to to tackle the day to day problems that would crop up. And my no-name status in the biz would be a huge obstacle to pass when it comes to getting my hands on seasoned staff. I would either have to rule with a Iron fist or be left at the mercy of my staff.
But, if we entertain the idea that i have done my homework and managed to get a hold of a core of people whom i can trust and put them in charge of the different teams.
I would produce a Transformers MMO, set in the time before the war on Cybertron. No PvP to begin with outside of "entertainment violence". Skills would be trained in a learning by doing kind of way with the twist that you could download a skill to a chip and then give it to someone else (or sell it). One huge planet through some clever sleight of hand giving people unlimited range to move about.
Character would be upgradeable in two ways, looks and subsystems. The first one is cosmetic and the second one is for stats. Your looks are partially dictated by what shape you transform in to.
So there you have a rough outline of what i would do.
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac Having zero experience beyond playing them, my answer is, of course, a resounding yes.
LOL My thoughts, exactly!
And the topic is a different question than, "Could you make a successful AAA MMO?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I have plenty of ideas about how my perfect MMO would be like. But that is something entirely different from being a MMO producer. I have no experience in this field and wouldn't know where to begin to make sure that money isn't wasted on some talentless managers and devs.
So I think you can easily waste that kind of money on your great ideas on paper. I mean, look around, it happens all the time. Even experienced ppl in this field mess up the implementation of their awesome ideas and come up with the next bugged unplayable release because they ran out of money.
Edit : So, no I couldn't and I doubt that you can.
So if you were given $100 million buck's to put out a AAA mmo,what would your creation be?
Headed for an extradition-free country with a suitcase full of money before the sun set.
Weigh your options:
Spend the rest of your life listening to gamers QQ, or spend the rest of your life on the beach sucking back Coronas?
How many brand new sports cars has Kickstarter funded right now?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
SWG, DAOC, AC, FX, EVE and the up coming TESO, all wrapped up into one gigantic, immersive, competitive PvP, with in depth crafting MMO to end all MMOs!!
Because SWG has the best crafting
DAOC has the best PvP system
AC was just awesome
FX had a great community
EVE is huge, nuff said
TESO is a hybrid of the game mentioned above, so its gunna be awesome
i wish i had it in me. i wish i were talented in the many arenas necessary to create a virtual world that was not only alive, but sustainable in entertainment value for millions of users.
i would like to add that i think this is why we get critical at times of developers and development companies. we watch these people at times make decisions that seem so obvious to those of us who do not have the talent that we can't help but wonder what they were thinking.
it doesn't help of course that due in part to our ignorance they would have a difficult time in explaining the more technical reasons for the their decisions.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I would be able to create the MMO that would surpass WOW with 100 Million to create it with its own IP and unique world. Would anyone play it? No because it would be a MMORPG by definition and that isn't what gamers want anymore. Would be best to make it overseas. I already now how and what I would make but it sure won't be told to the public I will keep my ideas to myself.
Originally posted by Thorbrand I would be able to create the MMO that would surpass WOW with 100 Million to create it with its own IP and unique world. Would anyone play it? No because it would be a MMORPG by definition and that isn't what gamers want anymore. Would be best to make it overseas. I already now how and what I would make but it sure won't be told to the public I will keep my ideas to myself.
Who would you pay to make it for you? How would you even recognise the talent that you need for your ideas? Do you know if your ideas are technically possible? And even if you have the money and the ideas and can find the right people, how do you convince them to work for you? Because they won't if they don't believe that you can pull it off.
To me it sounds that most of the people in this thread would be scammed out of their money before they realise it is too late.
Originally posted by Thorbrand I would be able to create the MMO that would surpass WOW with 100 Million to create it with its own IP and unique world. Would anyone play it? No because it would be a MMORPG by definition and that isn't what gamers want anymore. Would be best to make it overseas. I already now how and what I would make but it sure won't be told to the public I will keep my ideas to myself.
Who would you pay to make it for you? How would you even recognise the talent that you need for your ideas? Do you know if your ideas are technically possible? And even if you have the money and the ideas and can find the right people, how do you convince them to work for you? Because they won't if they don't believe that you can pull it off.
To me it sounds that most of the people in this thread would be scammed out of their money before they realise it is too late.
That's simple.
You get experienced coders who have worked on other titles.
You get them to work for you because you offer them a chance to make a great game, and when they find out they don't have to compromise their ideas in order to meet money deadlines, they will flock to you!
I would hire builders and architects to design and build me a deep vault underground, somewhere. I would install 24 hour surveillance cameras and the most sophisticated security system that money could buy. I would also hire mercenaries to patrol the areas surrounding the vault. Then I would look for hitmen to do certain jobs on the side and make sure that investment bankers make deals with the federal reserve, so that I would get some of their monthly 'benefits'. Meanwhile, anyone who threatens me would get a visit from my private shinobi bodyguards. With the profit that I made, I would 'borrow' the ideas from SOE and Blizzard through my spies that I place inside the companies.
After getting all the information that I need I would find MMO veterans for even more ideas. Later on, I would advertise my made up 'game studio' to the public while looking for publishers and developers willing to help make an MMO (with proper persuasion, if needed). Small details aside, I'd then make a sandbox-type MMO based on Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic Obscura's plot and world. But I would add many twists to the game to make it more friendly to the DnD crowd. Before releasing the game, I'd pay the proper sum for the MMO/ Video Game reviewers to raise up the hype for my game and give a decent rating. People would play it for a few months before moving on to the next big thing, but the die-hard fans would stay and I'd still make profit. The end.
You get experienced coders who have worked on other titles.
You get them to work for you because you offer them a chance to make a great game, and when they find out they don't have to compromise their ideas in order to meet money deadlines, they will flock to you!
I think your being far too pessimistic.
No more pessimistic than you are idealistic.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yes I could. It would be amazing, not a merged version of X and Y game, but something new and interesting that would change how people view MMO's forever.
I have it all planned out - quite extensively. But I don't have $100 million. So there's that reality.
Originally posted by Slappy1 Originally posted by Storman1977I would love to say "Yes, I could!" I even have an idea and outline drawn up and ready for presentation. But, the reality is, my idea is too niche and I have zero technical ability. Having no technical ability means I'd have to rely on the skills and honor of others to get the job done without being completely knocked out of the loop.
Out of curiosity,what type of mmo would you produce if you could.Sci Fi like Swtor/Sto or high fantasy?Or would it be a game like Marvel heroes/City of heroes/Champions Online?
just curious.
An open world (sandbox?) racing MMO. Think "Midnight Club Online" and you'd be going in the right direction. So, very niche indeed.
Originally posted by kabitoshin Originally posted by Storman1977I would love to say "Yes, I could!" I even have an idea and outline drawn up and ready for presentation. But, the reality is, my idea is too niche and I have zero technical ability. Having no technical ability means I'd have to rely on the skills and honor of others to get the job done without being completely knocked out of the loop.
What we need is multiple niche ideas targeting a certain audiences instead of making a game to please millions. These games were at its best when they weren't trying to re create the success of others.
The problem with niche games is that the publishers are less likely to pick up a title if it doesn't have mass appeal. While the $100 million is in hand, you still need a publisher willing to go to bat for an unknown IP.
I would love to say "Yes, I could!" I even have an idea and outline drawn up and ready for presentation. But, the reality is, my idea is too niche and I have zero technical ability. Having no technical ability means I'd have to rely on the skills and honor of others to get the job done without being completely knocked out of the loop.
Out of curiosity,what type of mmo would you produce if you could.Sci Fi like Swtor/Sto or high fantasy?Or would it be a game like Marvel heroes/City of heroes/Champions Online?
just curious.
I would start a kickstarter, raise $100M, and then say "sorry, it didn't work out, sayonara."
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by Storman1977 I would love to say "Yes, I could!" I even have an idea and outline drawn up and ready for presentation. But, the reality is, my idea is too niche and I have zero technical ability. Having no technical ability means I'd have to rely on the skills and honor of others to get the job done without being completely knocked out of the loop.
What we need is multiple niche ideas targeting a certain audiences instead of making a game to please millions. These games were at its best when they weren't trying to re create the success of others.
The problem with niche games is that the publishers are less likely to pick up a title if it doesn't have mass appeal. While the $100 million is in hand, you still need a publisher willing to go to bat for an unknown IP.
In today's distribution market, would a publisher really be needed?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Wouldn't even require that much. I'd say that 10 million is sufficient allready to produce a AAA-MMO.
The problem why alot of MMOs these days are crap is, that the publishers and investors want to see the game making profits to refinance their investments within the first year.
I'd emphasize on RPG and grouping instead of developing alot of soloable content. there wouldn't be levels, so no leveling content would be required. Basically I'd try to do something similar to EvE Online and go more for a niche-crowd right form the beginning instead of aiming for millions of subscribers as that guarantees, that you make to many compromises.
Think of a MMORPG along the lines of Shadowrun (the P&P). You create a character and you would play this character without leveling up or without gaining any form of XP. The only character-progression would be to amass riches and some equipment, but there would be a good amount of raids and dungeons, territorial warfare, crafting and trading, where you could take part from the second you enter the game for the first time. Let's say I've spent 25 million to develop the game, that leaves me with 75 million to constantly develop new raids/dungeons (released every two month) and to keep the system running.
Oh, and there would be permadeath in some cases, but that wouldn't be that harsh, as you don't need to level up your character first and your new character would be the legal heir of your former character, getting alot of the money and the equipment left over
Developers aren't the problem really imho, but the publishers and investors, who are greedy b*tards not allowing the devs to make good games anymore. There's a reason why old games like WoW, EvE, DAoC, UO, EQ, L2 etc were so successful for long periods of time allthough they were all developed with less then 20 million to begin with... back then the publishers and investors weren't the ones deciding.
there are limitations to imagination such as engine capabilities. But once a person understands those limitations then they know what they can make.
So that question is relative to really the competence in developing an engine. Creativity is a gift, but a lot of people have it, and that means a lot of smart people could make a tripple a mmo with the right engine.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Having many RL friends in the game industry (some ex and some current large AAA studio employees), I remember us talking about this scenario, except that the budget was $150mil.
Long story short, about half would not make a game, the rest would but not a single expensive game, but many smaller games - because given a 4-6 year Dev cycle you are designing a game for a future market that is unpredictable is far too risky. Why put all eggs in one basket that the players in 5 years may not like?
And 5 years from now is huge, because the tech is changing at an accelerated rate, the difference from 2013 to 2018 will be far more drastic than then last five years.
I am in the same boat, instead of risking it all on a single game i'd make ten 1-2mil dollar games with short Dev cycles, and one of those has a much higher potential of getting some marker share than betting it all on a single game.
I would also make sure that some of those game were mobile/cross platform as limiting a game to a single platform is not a good financial move.
I have a feeling that the days of large AAA 100mil+ budget games are numbered, far too risky for future market.
What are these large tech changes? To be honest, I think the rate of growth of processing power has slowed down in the last 5 years. The only major tech change I have seen is the growth of mobile and tablet devices.
Comments
Could i produce a AAA MMO that i like? Yeah, no problem.
Could i produce a AAA MMO that enough people like to make back the investment of $100 million? Doubtful, i would like it but not many others i fear.
I think almost every MMO player has their dream MMO or at least a rough outline of what it would be. The problem is that even with $100 million you would not be able to please all let alone a significant amount to make back the money.
Could a fully community driven MMO be the solution? A democratic system where everyone can vote on all major decisions? A MMO that offers choice and involvement into the development process?
I think it might be worth a try, an experiment that would be interesting to see and i would certainly do that if i was given that amount of money.
Something like these guys are doing:
Limbic Entertainment, who are building the handsome new Might & Magic game for Ubisoft, have just announced the start of “Open Dev” for the game. But what does this cryptic phrase mean? Which part of the current community-infused, early-access, crowdy gaming zeitgeist are they actually riffing off here? Well, it’s… different. They are allowing us to vote on various aspects of how they develop the game overall. For example, right now you can vote on how a dungeon gets made. The explain: “This week we’ll start with the general concept. The vote will be open until next Tuesday. After you have decided for one general concept, we will go into detail. So stay tuned for the dungeon fine tuning!”
Could i in theory produce a MMO. Yes... Could i practically do it... No, not by a mile. I lack the XP to to tackle the day to day problems that would crop up. And my no-name status in the biz would be a huge obstacle to pass when it comes to getting my hands on seasoned staff. I would either have to rule with a Iron fist or be left at the mercy of my staff.
But, if we entertain the idea that i have done my homework and managed to get a hold of a core of people whom i can trust and put them in charge of the different teams.
I would produce a Transformers MMO, set in the time before the war on Cybertron. No PvP to begin with outside of "entertainment violence". Skills would be trained in a learning by doing kind of way with the twist that you could download a skill to a chip and then give it to someone else (or sell it). One huge planet through some clever sleight of hand giving people unlimited range to move about.
Character would be upgradeable in two ways, looks and subsystems. The first one is cosmetic and the second one is for stats. Your looks are partially dictated by what shape you transform in to.
So there you have a rough outline of what i would do.
This have been a good conversation
And the topic is a different question than, "Could you make a successful AAA MMO?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
if swtor was considered successful, anyone can make a successfuly mmo.
I have plenty of ideas about how my perfect MMO would be like. But that is something entirely different from being a MMO producer. I have no experience in this field and wouldn't know where to begin to make sure that money isn't wasted on some talentless managers and devs.
So I think you can easily waste that kind of money on your great ideas on paper. I mean, look around, it happens all the time. Even experienced ppl in this field mess up the implementation of their awesome ideas and come up with the next bugged unplayable release because they ran out of money.
Edit : So, no I couldn't and I doubt that you can.
Headed for an extradition-free country with a suitcase full of money before the sun set.
Weigh your options:
Spend the rest of your life listening to gamers QQ, or spend the rest of your life on the beach sucking back Coronas?
How many brand new sports cars has Kickstarter funded right now?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
It would be....
SWG, DAOC, AC, FX, EVE and the up coming TESO, all wrapped up into one gigantic, immersive, competitive PvP, with in depth crafting MMO to end all MMOs!!
Because SWG has the best crafting
DAOC has the best PvP system
AC was just awesome
FX had a great community
EVE is huge, nuff said
TESO is a hybrid of the game mentioned above, so its gunna be awesome
If I could make this game, I would live there.
no.
i wish i had it in me. i wish i were talented in the many arenas necessary to create a virtual world that was not only alive, but sustainable in entertainment value for millions of users.
i would like to add that i think this is why we get critical at times of developers and development companies. we watch these people at times make decisions that seem so obvious to those of us who do not have the talent that we can't help but wonder what they were thinking.
it doesn't help of course that due in part to our ignorance they would have a difficult time in explaining the more technical reasons for the their decisions.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Who would you pay to make it for you? How would you even recognise the talent that you need for your ideas? Do you know if your ideas are technically possible? And even if you have the money and the ideas and can find the right people, how do you convince them to work for you? Because they won't if they don't believe that you can pull it off.
To me it sounds that most of the people in this thread would be scammed out of their money before they realise it is too late.
That's simple.
You get experienced coders who have worked on other titles.
You get them to work for you because you offer them a chance to make a great game, and when they find out they don't have to compromise their ideas in order to meet money deadlines, they will flock to you!
I think your being far too pessimistic.
I would hire builders and architects to design and build me a deep vault underground, somewhere. I would install 24 hour surveillance cameras and the most sophisticated security system that money could buy. I would also hire mercenaries to patrol the areas surrounding the vault. Then I would look for hitmen to do certain jobs on the side and make sure that investment bankers make deals with the federal reserve, so that I would get some of their monthly 'benefits'. Meanwhile, anyone who threatens me would get a visit from my private shinobi bodyguards. With the profit that I made, I would 'borrow' the ideas from SOE and Blizzard through my spies that I place inside the companies.
After getting all the information that I need I would find MMO veterans for even more ideas. Later on, I would advertise my made up 'game studio' to the public while looking for publishers and developers willing to help make an MMO (with proper persuasion, if needed). Small details aside, I'd then make a sandbox-type MMO based on Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic Obscura's plot and world. But I would add many twists to the game to make it more friendly to the DnD crowd. Before releasing the game, I'd pay the proper sum for the MMO/ Video Game reviewers to raise up the hype for my game and give a decent rating. People would play it for a few months before moving on to the next big thing, but the die-hard fans would stay and I'd still make profit. The end.
No more pessimistic than you are idealistic.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yes I could. It would be amazing, not a merged version of X and Y game, but something new and interesting that would change how people view MMO's forever.
I have it all planned out - quite extensively. But I don't have $100 million. So there's that reality.
just curious.
An open world (sandbox?) racing MMO. Think "Midnight Club Online" and you'd be going in the right direction. So, very niche indeed.
The problem with niche games is that the publishers are less likely to pick up a title if it doesn't have mass appeal. While the $100 million is in hand, you still need a publisher willing to go to bat for an unknown IP.
I would start a kickstarter, raise $100M, and then say "sorry, it didn't work out, sayonara."
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Absolutely. The problem with MMO's these days is that they don't try anything new. They're essentially carbon-copy ripoffs of old ideas.
I know exactly what I'd do, and how I'd do it.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
Wouldn't even require that much. I'd say that 10 million is sufficient allready to produce a AAA-MMO.
The problem why alot of MMOs these days are crap is, that the publishers and investors want to see the game making profits to refinance their investments within the first year.
I'd emphasize on RPG and grouping instead of developing alot of soloable content. there wouldn't be levels, so no leveling content would be required.
Basically I'd try to do something similar to EvE Online and go more for a niche-crowd right form the beginning instead of aiming for millions of subscribers as that guarantees, that you make to many compromises.
Think of a MMORPG along the lines of Shadowrun (the P&P). You create a character and you would play this character without leveling up or without gaining any form of XP. The only character-progression would be to amass riches and some equipment, but there would be a good amount of raids and dungeons, territorial warfare, crafting and trading, where you could take part from the second you enter the game for the first time.
Let's say I've spent 25 million to develop the game, that leaves me with 75 million to constantly develop new raids/dungeons (released every two month) and to keep the system running.
Oh, and there would be permadeath in some cases, but that wouldn't be that harsh, as you don't need to level up your character first and your new character would be the legal heir of your former character, getting alot of the money and the equipment left over
Developers aren't the problem really imho, but the publishers and investors, who are greedy b*tards not allowing the devs to make good games anymore.
There's a reason why old games like WoW, EvE, DAoC, UO, EQ, L2 etc were so successful for long periods of time allthough they were all developed with less then 20 million to begin with... back then the publishers and investors weren't the ones deciding.
Yes, i could.
there are limitations to imagination such as engine capabilities. But once a person understands those limitations then they know what they can make.
So that question is relative to really the competence in developing an engine. Creativity is a gift, but a lot of people have it, and that means a lot of smart people could make a tripple a mmo with the right engine.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
What are these large tech changes? To be honest, I think the rate of growth of processing power has slowed down in the last 5 years. The only major tech change I have seen is the growth of mobile and tablet devices.