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What Ever Happened to Finding Gear?

mentalnekomentalneko Member Posts: 18
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

As I sit here, reinstalling WoW after a few years of having dropped off the face of Azeroth I notice an ad for what seems to be a pet store you can purchase pets with cash. Now, this happens to be one of the lesser offenses to my coming topic, but it got me thinking back on all the MMOs I've been playing lately. Why have MMORPGs moved away from having hard, world boss encounters, that drop rare and desirable cosmetic, useful, or even pet items? 

 

Each game I seem to play offers some sort of equipment in a cash shop just because people will pay for it. Rather than use the world they've crafted to house some serious in game adventures trying to obtain said items. If it's not a cash shop then it's a simple dungeon run with 4 others till you get some powerful item, and the dungeon is usually either scripted or is just a bunch of monsters in an uninteresting line till you get to the item.

 

Think back to the last time you got a really interesting rare item from a random monster you killed? Or maybe the last time you got together a bunch of players to take on a world boss to get an item that your priest needs. The last time I had anything of that such happen to me was actually back in Burning Crusade, which is sort of a testament to how MMORPGs really have changed. It was a simple Orb of Transmutation, and would allow me to change in to a Draenei for a little bit. Not the most useful item ever, but it was rare and worth a lot of gold. I didn't sell it though, cause while it was gimicky, I knew I could show it off to friends or guildmates during events.

 

I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.

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Comments

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    WOW has tons of that stuff still.  If that's what you want, why are you looking at the other stuff?

    For example there are at least 10+ separate completely-for-fun random joke items (like the orb of deception in early WOW) to be found in Pandaria.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • steamtanksteamtank Member UncommonPosts: 391
    while WoW has some decent stuff floating around in the game.... the cash shop over the years left a very sour taste in my mouth. I bought every expansion (only seriously played vanilla since the rest went the way of casual) and payed my fees.... but that wasnt enough money.. I had no way to EARN a lot of the cool things in the game.  Nope... have to spend $$$$$$$$$$$ to get everything.... as a collector of random crap this ruined a lot of fun for me.
  • stayBlindstayBlind Member UncommonPosts: 512
    Last time I actually went and killed a boss for an item  was in GW1.
     
    It is funny how they take content out of the game and into the cash shop and people wonder why there is nothing to do in the games anymore...

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 1,989

    I haven't noticed what you've noticed in any game except Mabinogi; which is one of it's faults sorta.  They make up for this with story line chain quests that ARE interesting that will give you a rare skill no one else has (skills are not Cash Shop).  But just to hop in a dungeon for no damn reason for a chest reward is not happening in that game.  If you want makeup, clothes, mounts, pets or potions they are all in the Cash Shop.  If you want armor you can get your friends together and joust for it.  Yeah, I said joust.

    You do have the option to gamble for rare armor and weapons in Mabinogi called buying a gachapon but I don't pay attention to gambling much.

     

    I have always since the dawn of gaming noticed that Chest Rewards suck.  Why the hell would I want to go thru the shite I have to with getting a party together and putting up with a bunch of whining - "you stole my mob," "let me fire first," "no, the tank should go," "omg can you speak any English," and "I'm out of pots anyone got pots," unless I'm going to get one big ass rare reward for my troubles? 

     

    Name a single game where the dungeon chest at the end was worth what you just went thru?



  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227

    Well in a way it is some logic to putting stuff like pets and to some extent mounts in a cash shop. They cost a ton of money to develop (several thousands once labour and other costs are included) and do not really add anything to the game. Especially as a lot of the pets in the pet store are one of a kind models.

     

    Now WoW is a good example of it done right in my mind. There are tons and tons of pets to go find in the wild (or as of recently.. loot from old raid bosses) and a metric crapton of "vanity" items to be found/looted/explored without paying anything beyond the regular fee.

     

    Sure it would be nice to get it all for "free" but if that was the case we would see way way way less of these items as they as i said cost money to produce and it is not very sound to invest a ton of money in something that is a guarantee zero return.

     

    As for taking content out... That is at least not something you can blame Blizzard for doing. AFAIK nothing in WoW have ended up behind a "pay-wall" except for  a few pets and mounts that would not have been made if they were not destined for the pet store.

    This have been a good conversation

  • pkpkpkpkpkpk Member UncommonPosts: 265

    Reminds me of the time I won the Cloak of Flame from what's-his-name in Kunark. Roughly 40 people wanted it. Raid leader rolls a 1d40, lands on my name. :) Now THAT's working for  your gear. Thing was the best haste item in the game. Made enough plat when I finally sold it to fund an entire twink. But yeah, WoW had similar moments, though not nearly on the scale of EQ. Nothing will compare to the feeling of reward from a several hour camp of a mob, winning a rare item in a massive raid, or finding a nice world drop in the wild. I got lots of loot in WoW, but some of my fondest memories were actually in 5-mans, when rare items were rare. It took me probably 30 runs of Scholomance before I got my Cadaverous Armor. And winning items in bleeding edge content like AQ 40 or Naxxramas was pretty thrilling.

     

    Sadly you're right. Those days are slowly fading. Random items are inherently unpopular with the masses. They operate very heavily on instinct, and on an instinctive level people are very goal- and progress-focused. The idea that they would do something for fun is not as appealing to them as if they were doing it for progress. They don't see forward into the long-term.

  • pkpkpkpkpkpk Member UncommonPosts: 265
    Oh, and don't play Guild Wars 2. The developers sell GOLD in that game! Good grief.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    Originally posted by mentalneko
    Why have MMORPGs moved away from having hard, world boss encounters, that drop rare and desirable cosmetic, useful, or even pet items? 

     

    You are just not playing the right MMO's, go play Vanguard.

     Think back to the last time you got a really interesting rare item from a random monster you killed? Or maybe the last time you got together a bunch of players to take on a world boss to get an item that your priest needs. 

     Vanguard over this last weekend.

    I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.

    Vanguard has all the things you are saying that are missing from mo's and more. Vast world with named mobs that wander it plus countless open world dungeons with bosses. 




  • TorikTorik Member UncommonPosts: 2,342
    Originally posted by pkpkpk

    Reminds me of the time I won the Cloak of Flame from what's-his-name in Kunark. Roughly 40 people wanted it. Raid leader rolls a 1d40, lands on my name. :) Now THAT's working for  your gear. Thing was the best haste item in the game. Made enough plat when I finally sold it to fund an entire twink. But yeah, WoW had similar moments, though not nearly on the scale of EQ. Nothing will compare to the feeling of reward from a several hour camp of a mob, winning a rare item in a massive raid, or finding a nice world drop in the wild. I got lots of loot in WoW, but some of my fondest memories were actually in 5-mans, when rare items were rare. It took me probably 30 runs of Scholomance before I got my Cadaverous Armor. And winning items in bleeding edge content like AQ 40 or Naxxramas was pretty thrilling.

     

    Sadly you're right. Those days are slowly fading. Random items are inherently unpopular with the masses. They operate very heavily on instinct, and on an instinctive level people are very goal- and progress-focused. The idea that they would do something for fun is not as appealing to them as if they were doing it for progress. They don't see forward into the long-term.

    A lot of people simply do not like gambling and prefer that their rewards not be lottery tickets. 

    I always felt more connected to items that I obtained through crafting or questing than random drops.  Randoms drops never really feel 'earned'.

  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by mentalneko
    Why have MMORPGs moved away from having hard, world boss encounters, that drop rare and desirable cosmetic, useful, or even pet items? 

     

    You are just not playing the right MMO's, go play Vanguard.

     Think back to the last time you got a really interesting rare item from a random monster you killed? Or maybe the last time you got together a bunch of players to take on a world boss to get an item that your priest needs. 

     Vanguard over this last weekend.

    I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.

    Vanguard has all the things you are saying that are missing from mo's and more. Vast world with named mobs that wander it plus countless open world dungeons with bosses. 

    lol you must be joking. Vanguard is so terrible the original creator fled from the project......twice. The second time for a game 14 years old. The servers lag worse then any MMO i've played even though population is low on a single server.

    UI resets/moves/breaks all on it's own. Has the most simple map ever and it's still broken with completely inaccurate waypoints serving only to confuse anyone that might rely on them. 1 in 10 quests are still bugged in some major way.

    The game was built to be group centered but they slapped on poorly thought out WoW features at the last second, turning the game into an extremely boring solo grind. All the art looks bland, slowly lulling you to sleep as soon as you log on.

    I could go on forever so please don't waste random peoples time with your fanboi nonsense.

  • actionreactionactionreaction Member Posts: 82
    Originally posted by mentalneko

    As I sit here, reinstalling WoW after a few years of having dropped off the face of Azeroth I notice an ad for what seems to be a pet store you can purchase pets with cash. Now, this happens to be one of the lesser offenses to my coming topic, but it got me thinking back on all the MMOs I've been playing lately. Why have MMORPGs moved away from having hard, world boss encounters, that drop rare and desirable cosmetic, useful, or even pet items? 

     

    Each game I seem to play offers some sort of equipment in a cash shop just because people will pay for it. Rather than use the world they've crafted to house some serious in game adventures trying to obtain said items. If it's not a cash shop then it's a simple dungeon run with 4 others till you get some powerful item, and the dungeon is usually either scripted or is just a bunch of monsters in an uninteresting line till you get to the item.

     

    Think back to the last time you got a really interesting rare item from a random monster you killed? Or maybe the last time you got together a bunch of players to take on a world boss to get an item that your priest needs. The last time I had anything of that such happen to me was actually back in Burning Crusade, which is sort of a testament to how MMORPGs really have changed. It was a simple Orb of Transmutation, and would allow me to change in to a Draenei for a little bit. Not the most useful item ever, but it was rare and worth a lot of gold. I didn't sell it though, cause while it was gimicky, I knew I could show it off to friends or guildmates during events.

     

    I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.

    Hey bro! I do this sort of thing all day in Asheron's Call, give it a shot.

     

    um the adventuring, finding rare items, special events, ect.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by mentalneko

     

     

    I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.

    because world boss is a pain to deal with. You have to find one, you may have to work with people you do not know.

    That is why they are never that popular, and instances are more popular. Essentially a game needs "dungeons on demand".

  • actionreactionactionreaction Member Posts: 82
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by mentalneko
    Why have MMORPGs moved away from having hard, world boss encounters, that drop rare and desirable cosmetic, useful, or even pet items? 

     

    You are just not playing the right MMO's, go play Vanguard.

     Think back to the last time you got a really interesting rare item from a random monster you killed? Or maybe the last time you got together a bunch of players to take on a world boss to get an item that your priest needs. 

     Vanguard over this last weekend.

    I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.

    Vanguard has all the things you are saying that are missing from mo's and more. Vast world with named mobs that wander it plus countless open world dungeons with bosses. 

    lol you must be joking. Vanguard is so terrible the original creator fled from the project......twice. The second time for a game 14 years old. The servers lag worse then any MMO i've played even though population is low on a single server.

    UI resets/moves/breaks all on it's own. Has the most simple map ever and it's still broken with completely inaccurate waypoints serving only to confuse anyone that might rely on them. 1 in 10 quests are still bugged in some major way.

    The game was built to be group centered but they slapped on poorly thought out WoW features at the last second, turning the game into an extremely boring solo grind. All the art looks bland, slowly lulling you to sleep as soon as you log on.

    I could go on forever so please don't waste random peoples time with your fanboi nonsense.

     

    Bro your are an fanhater, the guy above is no fanboy, you just a hater bro.

     

    Vanguard outclasses WOW with content, lore, graphics, customer service and community by LEAGUES!!!

     

    edit: still out does wow even though creator was trippin on acid... hmm maybe that's why.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Originally posted by pkpkpk

    Reminds me of the time I won the Cloak of Flame from what's-his-name in Kunark. Roughly 40 people wanted it. Raid leader rolls a 1d40, lands on my name. :) Now THAT's working for  your gear. Thing was the best haste item in the game. Made enough plat when I finally sold it to fund an entire twink. But yeah, WoW had similar moments, though not nearly on the scale of EQ. Nothing will compare to the feeling of reward from a several hour camp of a mob, winning a rare item in a massive raid, or finding a nice world drop in the wild. I got lots of loot in WoW, but some of my fondest memories were actually in 5-mans, when rare items were rare. It took me probably 30 runs of Scholomance before I got my Cadaverous Armor. And winning items in bleeding edge content like AQ 40 or Naxxramas was pretty thrilling.

     

    Sadly you're right. Those days are slowly fading. Random items are inherently unpopular with the masses. They operate very heavily on instinct, and on an instinctive level people are very goal- and progress-focused. The idea that they would do something for fun is not as appealing to them as if they were doing it for progress. They don't see forward into the long-term.

    Ixiblat Fer in Burning Woods or Severilous in Emerald Jungle or Lord Nagafen in Solusek B or Talendor in Skyfire Mountains.  :)

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by pkpkpk

    Reminds me of the time I won the Cloak of Flame from what's-his-name in Kunark. Roughly 40 people wanted it. Raid leader rolls a 1d40, lands on my name. :) Now THAT's working for  your gear. Thing was the best haste item in the game. Made enough plat when I finally sold it to fund an entire twink. But yeah, WoW had similar moments, though not nearly on the scale of EQ. Nothing will compare to the feeling of reward from a several hour camp of a mob, winning a rare item in a massive raid, or finding a nice world drop in the wild. I got lots of loot in WoW, but some of my fondest memories were actually in 5-mans, when rare items were rare. It took me probably 30 runs of Scholomance before I got my Cadaverous Armor. And winning items in bleeding edge content like AQ 40 or Naxxramas was pretty thrilling.

     

    Sadly you're right. Those days are slowly fading. Random items are inherently unpopular with the masses. They operate very heavily on instinct, and on an instinctive level people are very goal- and progress-focused. The idea that they would do something for fun is not as appealing to them as if they were doing it for progress. They don't see forward into the long-term.

    A lot of people simply do not like gambling and prefer that their rewards not be lottery tickets. 

    I always felt more connected to items that I obtained through crafting or questing than random drops.  Randoms drops never really feel 'earned'.

    It's more fun if they are random drops from any kind of content, not so much when it's only from raiding or from an epic dungeon.

    image
  • actionreactionactionreaction Member Posts: 82
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by pkpkpk

    Reminds me of the time I won the Cloak of Flame from what's-his-name in Kunark. Roughly 40 people wanted it. Raid leader rolls a 1d40, lands on my name. :) Now THAT's working for  your gear. Thing was the best haste item in the game. Made enough plat when I finally sold it to fund an entire twink. But yeah, WoW had similar moments, though not nearly on the scale of EQ. Nothing will compare to the feeling of reward from a several hour camp of a mob, winning a rare item in a massive raid, or finding a nice world drop in the wild. I got lots of loot in WoW, but some of my fondest memories were actually in 5-mans, when rare items were rare. It took me probably 30 runs of Scholomance before I got my Cadaverous Armor. And winning items in bleeding edge content like AQ 40 or Naxxramas was pretty thrilling.

     

    Sadly you're right. Those days are slowly fading. Random items are inherently unpopular with the masses. They operate very heavily on instinct, and on an instinctive level people are very goal- and progress-focused. The idea that they would do something for fun is not as appealing to them as if they were doing it for progress. They don't see forward into the long-term.

    A lot of people simply do not like gambling and prefer that their rewards not be lottery tickets. 

    I always felt more connected to items that I obtained through crafting or questing than random drops.  Randoms drops never really feel 'earned'.

    It's more fun if they are random drops from any kind of content, not so much when it's only from raiding or from an epic dungeon.

    I'd look at this way when predicting how my players will react...

     

    A) Random chance

    B) Token build up

     

     

    A, you feel lucky, you could get it on the first try, or maybe the 2000th kill.

     

    B, you know it's going to take exactly 1000 kills, because at that time you will have 1000 tokens to trade for item.

     

    I myself prefer to feel lucky, how about the community here?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    Anyone care to list any mainstream games where buying something like gear is possible? WoW, Rift, and GW2 all require you to kill the bosses to get the gear. You can buy gear in D3, but it's bought from other players, not the cash shop. This seems to be much ado about not much at all to me.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by actionreaction

    I'd look at this way when predicting how my players will react...

     A) Random chance

    B) Token build up 

    A, you feel lucky, you could get it on the first try, or maybe the 2000th kill. 

    B, you know it's going to take exactly 1000 kills, because at that time you will have 1000 tokens to trade for item. 

    I myself prefer to feel lucky, how about the community here?

    Why not both?  In WOW I have a chance to get some item from the boss, but I also consistently gain tokens every time I kill something.  It's not like the token system has to be super generous (it takes a lot of bosses to earn enough to buy something.)

    Pure random chance done poorly can lead to things like early WOW where you wanted an upgrade and ended up having to grind one specific dungeon for a very long time, and it was basically pure chance whether you got your upgrade in one 1.5-hour run, or  in 40 hours of grinding that dungeon 27 times for one simple upgrade.  That's not really the fun type of random loot drops.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • actionreactionactionreaction Member Posts: 82
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by actionreaction

    I'd look at this way when predicting how my players will react...

     A) Random chance

    B) Token build up 

    A, you feel lucky, you could get it on the first try, or maybe the 2000th kill. 

    B, you know it's going to take exactly 1000 kills, because at that time you will have 1000 tokens to trade for item. 

    I myself prefer to feel lucky, how about the community here?

    Why not both?  In WOW I have a chance to get some item from the boss, but I also consistently gain tokens every time I kill something.  It's not like the token system has to be super generous (it takes a lot of bosses to earn enough to buy something.)

    Pure random chance done poorly can lead to things like early WOW where you wanted an upgrade and ended up having to grind one specific dungeon for a very long time, and it was basically pure chance whether you got your upgrade in one 1.5-hour run, or  in 40 hours of grinding that dungeon 27 times for one simple upgrade.  That's not really the fun type of random loot drops.

    Yea, but that is the difference between New and Old games, new games stop your progression instantaneously, level 21? Level 23 mob insta splats you without gear.

     

    Old game, could be level 1, using perching tactics, kiting, ect, and actually have a chance against a higher level creature, maybe even a LVL10!!! Lol

     

     

  • BLueBEarBLueBEar Member Posts: 242

    Originally posted by mentalneko
    As I sit here, reinstalling WoW after a few years of having dropped off the face of Azeroth I notice an ad for what seems to be a pet store you can purchase pets with cash. Now, this happens to be one of the lesser offenses to my coming topic, but it got me thinking back on all the MMOs I've been playing lately. Why have MMORPGs moved away from having hard, world boss encounters, that drop rare and desirable cosmetic, useful, or even pet items?  Each game I seem to play offers some sort of equipment in a cash shop just because people will pay for it. Rather than use the world they've crafted to house some serious in game adventures trying to obtain said items. If it's not a cash shop then it's a simple dungeon run with 4 others till you get some powerful item, and the dungeon is usually either scripted or is just a bunch of monsters in an uninteresting line till you get to the item. Think back to the last time you got a really interesting rare item from a random monster you killed? Or maybe the last time you got together a bunch of players to take on a world boss to get an item that your priest needs. The last time I had anything of that such happen to me was actually back in Burning Crusade, which is sort of a testament to how MMORPGs really have changed. It was a simple Orb of Transmutation, and would allow me to change in to a Draenei for a little bit. Not the most useful item ever, but it was rare and worth a lot of gold. I didn't sell it though, cause while it was gimicky, I knew I could show it off to friends or guildmates during events. I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.


    Guess your playing the wrong mmorpgs, there are plenty mmorpgs where you find gear. Get used to the shops it's what the mmo market is turning in to, where have you been the past five years?

    ________________________________

    Oh my got!!!
    i neber see a graphic of this before,
    i neber p2p any game before, but this game i must!
    ________________________________

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    Originally posted by actionreaction
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by mentalneko
    Why have MMORPGs moved away from having hard, world boss encounters, that drop rare and desirable cosmetic, useful, or even pet items? 

     

    You are just not playing the right MMO's, go play Vanguard.

     Think back to the last time you got a really interesting rare item from a random monster you killed? Or maybe the last time you got together a bunch of players to take on a world boss to get an item that your priest needs. 

     Vanguard over this last weekend.

    I don't know about any of you, but stuff like that is just fun, and makes the exploration in an open world online rpg interesting. Having things of actual desirability in the world itself, rather than a cash shop or an instance. Sometimes, I just feel like MMORPGs are turning in to more of a marketing platform, than an actual Online RPG. Almost like Second Life.

    Vanguard has all the things you are saying that are missing from mo's and more. Vast world with named mobs that wander it plus countless open world dungeons with bosses. 

    lol you must be joking. Vanguard is so terrible the original creator fled from the project......twice. The second time for a game 14 years old. The servers lag worse then any MMO i've played even though population is low on a single server.

    UI resets/moves/breaks all on it's own. Has the most simple map ever and it's still broken with completely inaccurate waypoints serving only to confuse anyone that might rely on them. 1 in 10 quests are still bugged in some major way.

    The game was built to be group centered but they slapped on poorly thought out WoW features at the last second, turning the game into an extremely boring solo grind. All the art looks bland, slowly lulling you to sleep as soon as you log on.

    I could go on forever so please don't waste random peoples time with your fanboi nonsense.

     

    Bro your are an fanhater, the guy above is no fanboy, you just a hater bro.

     

    Vanguard outclasses WOW with content, lore, graphics, customer service and community by LEAGUES!!!

     

    edit: still out does wow even though creator was trippin on acid... hmm maybe that's why.

    Lol, i was actually going to answer him until i read your comments, on top of that he mentions nothing in his hate rant about what the actual OP is talking about.

     




  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848
    Originally posted by steamtank
    while WoW has some decent stuff floating around in the game.... the cash shop over the years left a very sour taste in my mouth. I bought every expansion (only seriously played vanilla since the rest went the way of casual) and payed my fees.... but that wasnt enough money.. I had no way to EARN a lot of the cool things in the game.  Nope... have to spend $$$$$$$$$$$ to get everything.... as a collector of random crap this ruined a lot of fun for me.

     

    I've played wow for 8 years and never gave their little cash shop items a second thought. Sorry that something so small RUINED the game for you. Here, have a cookie.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Anyone care to list any mainstream games where buying something like gear is possible? WoW, Rift, and GW2 all require you to kill the bosses to get the gear. You can buy gear in D3, but it's bought from other players, not the cash shop. This seems to be much ado about not much at all to me.

    In games with developed progression systems, you can't buy gear outside the system for good reason.  It shortcuts the entire process.

    It's one of the reasons D3's loot drops feel really crappy.  Imagine loot drops as rolling a 100-sided die many times to determine how much damage your sword does (1-100).  Let's say your rolls are: 8, 63, 79, 44, 83, 63, 70, 96, 30, 31 (in that order)
    • Player A plays in isolation (no auction).  He gets upgrades at:
      • 8, 63, 79, 44, 83, 63, 70, 96, 30, 31  (5 upgrades)
    • Player B purchases a "95" sword directly from the auction house.  He gets upgrades at:
      • 8, 63, 79, 44, 83, 63, 70, 96, 30, 31  (1 upgrade)
    So being able to directly buy something directly reduces the number of upgrades you're going to randomly get from the world.  This is why games use soulbinding systems (although D3 was in the unenviable position of having a precedent of no-bind games setting an expectation that all loot is freely tradeable, even though this ruins the item economy and the jackpot fun of random loot drops.)

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Anyone care to list any mainstream games where buying something like gear is possible? WoW, Rift, and GW2 all require you to kill the bosses to get the gear. You can buy gear in D3, but it's bought from other players, not the cash shop. This seems to be much ado about not much at all to me.

    In games with developed progression systems, you can't buy gear outside the system for good reason.  It shortcuts the entire process.

    It's one of the reasons D3's loot drops feel really crappy.  Imagine loot drops as rolling a 100-sided die many times to determine how much damage your sword does (1-100).  Let's say your rolls are: 8, 63, 79, 44, 83, 63, 70, 96, 30, 31 (in that order)
    • Player A plays in isolation (no auction).  He gets upgrades at:
      • 8, 63, 79, 44, 83, 63, 70, 96, 30, 31  (5 upgrades)
    • Player B purchases a "95" sword directly from the auction house.  He gets upgrades at:
      • 8, 63, 79, 44, 83, 63, 70, 96, 30, 31  (1 upgrade)
    So being able to directly buy something directly reduces the number of upgrades you're going to randomly get from the world.  This is why games use soulbinding systems (although D3 was in the unenviable position of having a precedent of no-bind games setting an expectation that all loot is freely tradeable, even though this ruins the item economy and the jackpot fun of random loot drops.)

     

    Good explanation. I very rarely buy gear off the AH. Have yet to in D3 and I still enjoy playing it. In fact just started back playing a lot the past week or 2...

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,760
    The element of random drops has been taken out of many games and it is a big mistake. One thing that could make You happy for days would be suddenly get a valuable item. One thing that can make you bored is farming for [insert game currency] and go buy of a vender; the same vender with the same items that everyone else are getting, just put x hours of efford into it and the result is guaranteed. Funny enough these things were also removed to reduce grind because that is a bad word, now grind is just replaced with generic grind and the excitement factor is gone aswell. Moments of joy and moments of frustration is what makes a great experience, flat grind systems are just dull, but it sure makes the developers able to control every bit of their game. Flat grind reduces frustration moments so the kiddies stay one more week, but is it really worth it ? I grew tiered of for example WoW and GW2 because of all these flat game currency grind systems and even worse when You can buy these currency in a shop. It really has become a job playing these kind of games, not a fun adventure with surprices.

    "I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0

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