This completely breaks down the entire game. It's A POS and Unplayable now. Thanks Trion for letting me play your broken game for free. you ruined my life. Are you happy Now?
The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent. Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.
But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.
I can appreciate your opinion on the matter, but my opinion of what Pay2win means is different than your own. Not sure what you mean by drama, this is a discussion board, we are discussing it. Any drama is on you.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Maybe end game should be about skill and comradery and not about gear. Remove epic gear. Some people pay to have an advantage or catch-up on lost time. Some people play to gain advantage. As we get older, we have less time to play, but we have more disposable money. I'm tired of this Pay-to-win whining. Pony-up some cash to level the playing field or just play better than them. Or change games if it has become so unbalanced. If there were not a surplus of games (even free ones), I'd think the complaint might carry more weight.
this will be the 3rd time I have made this exact comparison in as many weeks.
In GW2, I can roll a brand new character, I can then visit a site such as GW2 spidy and get the most cost effective guides for leveling crafts.
Leveling from 1-400 in any craft will get you approximately 10 character levels. There are 8 crafts and thus 80 levels to be had through crafting. Therefore, I can, if I want, buy gems, trade for gold, buy mats and level a new toon to 80. In effect, I can buy a fully leveled character with Gems. And if I am not done there, I can also, if I want, use gems to trade for gold and purchase a full set of exotic gear complete with Runes, As well as fully upgraded trinkets (Except the back piece, that might have to be Rare) I can also purchase any weapon and sigil.
Now, relatively speaking, Exotic is already best in slot for armor and weapons, and is very very close, statistically, to the ascended gear for Trinkets. How is the quality of the Rift gear in comparison? No where near as good as Exotics in GW2.
So, in Rift, you are comparatively weaker with the gear obtained from real money than you are in GW2. and yet No one (Not even me) will say GW2 is P2W.
Why?
Because you cannot win with it!
What is considers play to win, well IMO I would say being able to advance your self from paying money to get there. If I pay to get gear to help me to getting raider status, then I would say I just saved a ton of time and just won compared to those that have to spend time getting to the same spot I am in the game assuming we both have the same goals. P2W could be a relative term when talking about buying stuff from the AH or from the Company, in both cases if either is neglected that system becomes problematic and with that are robbing the player of the full experience.
If I am selling something that gives me 100 hp and the company is selling something that gives 1000 hp the choice is easy. They try to justify their stance (the company) by saying you "could" just buy that 100 without real money but they also know hardcore games are going to spend that money on that 1000 hp item with no questions asked.
Now you can say " well I am hardcore gamer and I just farm up enough of this and that to make this and that" that is fine but most people have jobs and still raid hardcore; this is where normally the farmer would make money but why waste in game money on a lesser item and you cant really farm in game money because you only have time to raid. Instead what happens is the raider/hardcoregamer/dudewithjob ends up buying from the Company with real money every time. This scenario holds true from past experience of raiders in wow and other similar games.
In the end you can claim that p2w and f2p are not the same but every which way you look at it the math holds true. How many gamers that raid/play hardcore (meaning 4-8+ a day 5-7 days a week) have jobs and families? Unless someone has a link they can prove me wrong I would use a educated guess and say %70. If that is even remotely close to the percentage then you can see how they are doing unethical practices in some peoples eyes.
When did pay to win become an opinion? P2W is a fact.
If a person can spend money in the game to obtain an advantage that cannot be obtained be someone who does not pay, then it's pay to win.
One gamer's family and job situation outside of Rift holds no bearing on any other gamer's situation inside Rift. If someone cannot afford the time then they have the option to buy what they lack in time. If one has neither the time, nor the money, then I am left to think it's time for a cheaper, less time consuming hobby.
Otherwise, be thankful for getting something for nothing off the backs of those who you are accusing of paying to win.
so, i m thankful to those who have money to spent in the cash shop and allow me, the poor one, to play COMPLETELY FREE such a great game. thx guys and thx TRION
Just went through the cash shop myself, and I laughed at the gear offerings. It is all normal dungeon gear, not even the Expert mode gear.
If people wanna toss their cash at gear they could easily have just spent a few hours getting, let em. It supports Trion and keeps the game running, and the free players doing what they do best.... not spending a single cent.
Only things I saw that I want from the cash shop would be the extra bag slots and extra tradeskill slots. I will just wait to buy them using in game currency to purchase REX from other players though, no need to spend money on stuff I can just earn in game.
Wrong. You can buy expert dungeon gear and the stones to upgrade said gear all in the cash shop. I know this because I actually play the game and my wife, who also plays the game, JUST did this for her alt. She is raid ready right now, and all because she had the cash to afford it.
We also had a guild member, who did the same thing, he had been lvl 60 for less than a day when he did. He still has no idea how to play his toon, other than for leveling, but hey he is off to raiding. Not with our guild, he was removed for different reasons, but still he/she is out there, waiting to screw up your raid.
So I guess I must say, not only is it pay2win, it's pay to wipe raids as well. which I guess would be considered paytofail, so we come full circle paytowin.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It's all a diversion... if you focus on the pay-to-win argument, you won't realize the game is essentially the same as all the others... the reason it's going to fail is because of it's cash shop, not because it's the same old same old. People can say, it was a great game ruined by the cash shop instead of, it was a meh game like all the rest.
We're writing an epitaph here... lets be a little creative and original.
Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid. I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion? what happened there? I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.
Why sell gear at all? It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps. But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.
Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.
You can buy blue gear giving all the gear you need to run expert dungeons not raid. Big deal.
Wrong, as I stated above you can be raid ready in a few minutes if you want to spend the cash.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent. Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.
But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.
I can appreciate your opinion on the matter, but my opinion of what Pay2win means is different than your own. Not sure what you mean by drama, this is a discussion board, we are discussing it. Any drama is on you.
Its not a point of opinion... its what it is. Pay 2 Win games means top end items are sold in the cash shop and often they are the best items in the game. It means if you pay you win. Lets break that down to Rift. I buy the best items in their cash shop and go PvP, does that mean I will win every or most fights? No... because people who have earned better gear and more likely to kick my butt. Pay 2 Win means my cash is a "I win button"
Rift is giving you convenience items and thats it. I get my char to top level and I can buy a set of gear that will get me raiding with my friends right away. I wish more MMOs would do this. I cant count how many times I have wanted to roll a new char but dont want to take the time to get geared to raid level. Working full time I dont have the time for that. See that, its just a time saving tool you can buy not a pay to win.
Technically speaking... even those who *earned* the gear the hard way don't necessarily know how to play their characters either. Gear only proves you have time or money or both. Nothing else.
I think a lot of people are missing the point. The questions you should be asking is, does the cash shop make games like Rift a better game? Does it effect gameplay?
Its good enough, good enough to maybe the best WoW-clone, in my eyes. Prolly why I dislike it so.
As far as the "sale of gear" goes and "Pay to Win"...tons and tons of semantics from both sides...I guess it doesn't hurt anyone...except those that cant get into groups, of kicked from groups for not having the gear. One could argue that a player "won" a spot in a group by buying gear, but I could argue most sides of everything with some clever wording.
In my honest opinion, this will be the end for Rift. Today they sell "entry level-end game gear"...in the next patch it will be more...yadda yadda.
Same old same old, these are the reasons I don't play F2P games.
Originally posted by Giddian This completely breaks down the entire game. It's A POS and Unplayable now. Thanks Trion for letting me play your broken game for free. you ruined my life. Are you happy Now?
No, not sure what you want here, but my opinions only really affect me. You are of course free to post your opinions and I welcome them but this is in no way furthering the discussion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It's all a diversion... if you focus on the pay-to-win argument, you won't realize the game is essentially the same as all the others...
I respectfully disagree, out of the current themeparks, Rifts quality shines, sure its not everyone's cup of tea, but take a look at Storm Legion zones - take a look at the Volan event, or the new open world Raid bosses.
Rift has a lot of special stuff going for it, and it is done very well.
Also the class system is top notch.
I agree with your points here. My only issue revolves around the gear being sold in the cash shop, weapons and armor. The rest of the game and the forethought Trion puts into everything else is amazing imo.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by Arakazi I think a lot of people are missing the point. The questions you should be asking is, does the cash shop make games like Rift a better game? Does it effect gameplay?
Yup it does... lets take WoW. That game has been out a long time. Now I want a buddy to come play with me. We spend a few week getting him to top level and now have to spend many more weeks to get geared so he can join me and my friends. So a months work to get to the end game and join the majority of the population. For people who RL, families, jobs and other things that take up their time can often be the reason they dont play a MMO. New MMO out where everyone is on equal footing thats different. But games like Rift and WoW have been out a number of years and getting caught up to the majority of the population takes a lot of TIME. The move Rift did is good for the community as it helps new gamers get where they need to and also people who have been playing the game level up and gear a new char quick to till needs of the guild. Its wicked awesome.
The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent. Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.
But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.
I can appreciate your opinion on the matter, but my opinion of what Pay2win means is different than your own. Not sure what you mean by drama, this is a discussion board, we are discussing it. Any drama is on you.
Its not a point of opinion... its what it is. Pay 2 Win games means top end items are sold in the cash shop and often they are the best items in the game. It means if you pay you win. Lets break that down to Rift. I buy the best items in their cash shop and go PvP, does that mean I will win every or most fights? No... because people who have earned better gear and more likely to kick my butt. Pay 2 Win means my cash is a "I win button"
Rift is giving you convenience items and thats it. I get my char to top level and I can buy a set of gear that will get me raiding with my friends right away. I wish more MMOs would do this. I cant count how many times I have wanted to roll a new char but dont want to take the time to get geared to raid level. Working full time I dont have the time for that. See that, its just a time saving tool you can buy not a pay to win.
You can have your wish....it is called power leveling service....You pay, they level your toon right to the level you need so you can raid with your friends.....maybe you should ask your "friends" to PL you so you can raid with them...If I had friends I would do that for them.....
The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent. Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.
But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.
I can appreciate your opinion on the matter, but my opinion of what Pay2win means is different than your own. Not sure what you mean by drama, this is a discussion board, we are discussing it. Any drama is on you.
Its not a point of opinion... its what it is. Pay 2 Win games means top end items are sold in the cash shop and often they are the best items in the game. It means if you pay you win. Lets break that down to Rift. I buy the best items in their cash shop and go PvP, does that mean I will win every or most fights? No... because people who have earned better gear and more likely to kick my butt. Pay 2 Win means my cash is a "I win button"
Rift is giving you convenience items and thats it. I get my char to top level and I can buy a set of gear that will get me raiding with my friends right away. I wish more MMOs would do this. I cant count how many times I have wanted to roll a new char but dont want to take the time to get geared to raid level. Working full time I dont have the time for that. See that, its just a time saving tool you can buy not a pay to win.
You can have your wish....it is called power leveling service....You pay, they level your toon right to the level you need so you can raid with your friends.....maybe you should ask your "friends" to PL you so you can raid with them...If I had friends I would do that for them.....
Your reply has nothing to do with my post. This thread has nothing to do with how long it takes to level a char. Also to the OP, many people here have told you what Pay 2 Win means. If you dont get it Im not sure this thread is worth posting in. Pay 2 Win means your cash means you win. Done. There is no, well this is how you feel and this is how I feel so thats that. The best gear in Rifts cash shop is far from the best. Its just a starting point to get you playing with your friends. Done!!!
Nothing wrong with having entry level raid gear available. If people have disposable income and they choose to go that route, how does it affect me? It doesn't. DPS meters don't Lie, Healers cant buy ability to heal well and tanks can buy the ability to tank/hold aggro.
Not gonna lie, I bought $100 worth of creds last night. To open up bag slots, get a couple mounts a like, unlock the storm legion souls and even twink out a lowbie or two. Who cares what I do. Im the one paying for it.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
Originally posted by Arakazi I think a lot of people are missing the point. The questions you should be asking is, does the cash shop make games like Rift a better game? Does it effect gameplay?
does it matter if the game is better and you don't know it? even if a game is better now since you quit, you you wont know until you play it again. at sub games almost none quilter ever returns (except wow maybe), so those games are doomed to fail, even they are way better than they were some time ago.
also a game that turns f2p, most of the times has much more incomes than when it was subbed. this allow devs and companies to give more to develop the game, instead of planning how to shut it down.
gameplay also gets better, because you will not play in ghosts servers and towns. its the worst thing in a mmo. check wow forums. the no1 problem of the population is the empty servers after the big decline. i faced it too in twilights hammer. it sucks.
as it concerns RIFT, its already a MUCH better game than it was in the past. SL moved it to a higher quality lvl. if it wasn't f2p none would tale notice of it and with the small amount of subs, the possibility to shut down was big.
so yes, a model like RIFT's f2p can make a game better.
Nobody likes it when someone else can get something quicker and easier than them. Instead of seeing it as a personal accomplishment... "I did it the hard way"... they see it as "They've cheapened the game by giving away what I worked for".
Why does it matter that someone can start raiding as soon as they hit max level? You don't have to raid with them.
Why does it matter that they don't know how to play their class? You don't have to play with them.
Why does it matter that someone got their gear sooner than you? Eventually you will both be in the same gear.
Odds are, the person that gets there first, wherever that *there* is, leaves first. So unless you're looking for a short pitstop in the game, these people are fleeting at best.
What is the problem? It not even competitive so why would you care if someone pays and he wins? Will you lose if he wins? In fact I would say you win if your in a raid with him. If it effect PvP and you lose because he payed for something with money then I can see the problem.
Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid. I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion? what happened there? I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.
Why sell gear at all? It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps. But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.
Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.
Half information is bad and makes you look bad. The gear you are talking about is entry level gear to help people get ready for more challenging stuff.
I will never understand why you people do this everytime? post mis information without making any effort to first educate yourself on facts?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.
To each their own. I hope you find a game you enjoy. I see no problem with selling entry gear. Not everyone has the advantage of being in a good guild, or having dealt with the wonders of the LFG system.
Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid. I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion? what happened there? I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.
Why sell gear at all? It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps. But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.
Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.
If filling in the gaps in your gear when you first hit max level is your definition of pay to win then you haven't played many free to play games.
Originally posted by Giddian This completely breaks down the entire game. It's A POS and Unplayable now. Thanks Trion for letting me play your broken game for free. you ruined my life. Are you happy Now?
No, not sure what you want here, but my opinions only really affect me. You are of course free to post your opinions and I welcome them but this is in no way furthering the discussion.
Furthering a Discussion? or support of Wining?
It is a Totally free title. you are able to earn much better equipment. the offering of this Equipment for purchase does not effect the Game. it is NOT Pay to Win. that is not an opinion that's fact. Every time some company offer a F2P tile. there is ALLWAYS someone whining about it. it's FREE? Give me More! No one is ever satisfied and just say Thank You or No Thank You. I don't find it right fore someone who cries about free stuff. My 6 year old cries less.
Trion, Work harder to make me more free stuff. Do it right next time you lazy freeloaders!
couldn't agree more
RIFT gives you all the races. all the classes. all the UI options, bars and tools. ALL the content (dungeons/raids/warfronts, events etc), with the addition to do them as many times as it pleases you (unlike swtor e.g.) . all items/gear/weapons. full access to forums. full ingame support (yes dear swtor, RIFT let ppl make petitions and speak with a GM even as f2p) etc etc etc all of those are COMPLETELY FREE!
so, dont you think crying and whining about NORMAL dungeon gear in cash shop, is a bit TOO MUCH?
anyway as it concerns me its the best model (not only as f2p) i have ever experienced in a mmo.
Comments
I can appreciate your opinion on the matter, but my opinion of what Pay2win means is different than your own. Not sure what you mean by drama, this is a discussion board, we are discussing it. Any drama is on you.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA
so, i m thankful to those who have money to spent in the cash shop and allow me, the poor one, to play COMPLETELY FREE such a great game. thx guys and thx TRION
Wrong. You can buy expert dungeon gear and the stones to upgrade said gear all in the cash shop. I know this because I actually play the game and my wife, who also plays the game, JUST did this for her alt. She is raid ready right now, and all because she had the cash to afford it.
We also had a guild member, who did the same thing, he had been lvl 60 for less than a day when he did. He still has no idea how to play his toon, other than for leveling, but hey he is off to raiding. Not with our guild, he was removed for different reasons, but still he/she is out there, waiting to screw up your raid.
So I guess I must say, not only is it pay2win, it's pay to wipe raids as well. which I guess would be considered paytofail, so we come full circle paytowin.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It's all a diversion... if you focus on the pay-to-win argument, you won't realize the game is essentially the same as all the others... the reason it's going to fail is because of it's cash shop, not because it's the same old same old. People can say, it was a great game ruined by the cash shop instead of, it was a meh game like all the rest.
We're writing an epitaph here... lets be a little creative and original.
Wrong, as I stated above you can be raid ready in a few minutes if you want to spend the cash.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Its not a point of opinion... its what it is. Pay 2 Win games means top end items are sold in the cash shop and often they are the best items in the game. It means if you pay you win. Lets break that down to Rift. I buy the best items in their cash shop and go PvP, does that mean I will win every or most fights? No... because people who have earned better gear and more likely to kick my butt. Pay 2 Win means my cash is a "I win button"
Rift is giving you convenience items and thats it. I get my char to top level and I can buy a set of gear that will get me raiding with my friends right away. I wish more MMOs would do this. I cant count how many times I have wanted to roll a new char but dont want to take the time to get geared to raid level. Working full time I dont have the time for that. See that, its just a time saving tool you can buy not a pay to win.
OK, so can you back any of that up with some facts?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Meh, I bailed on Rift before.
Its good enough, good enough to maybe the best WoW-clone, in my eyes. Prolly why I dislike it so.
As far as the "sale of gear" goes and "Pay to Win"...tons and tons of semantics from both sides...I guess it doesn't hurt anyone...except those that cant get into groups, of kicked from groups for not having the gear. One could argue that a player "won" a spot in a group by buying gear, but I could argue most sides of everything with some clever wording.
In my honest opinion, this will be the end for Rift. Today they sell "entry level-end game gear"...in the next patch it will be more...yadda yadda.
Same old same old, these are the reasons I don't play F2P games.
No, not sure what you want here, but my opinions only really affect me. You are of course free to post your opinions and I welcome them but this is in no way furthering the discussion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I agree with your points here. My only issue revolves around the gear being sold in the cash shop, weapons and armor. The rest of the game and the forethought Trion puts into everything else is amazing imo.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Yup it does... lets take WoW. That game has been out a long time. Now I want a buddy to come play with me. We spend a few week getting him to top level and now have to spend many more weeks to get geared so he can join me and my friends. So a months work to get to the end game and join the majority of the population. For people who RL, families, jobs and other things that take up their time can often be the reason they dont play a MMO. New MMO out where everyone is on equal footing thats different. But games like Rift and WoW have been out a number of years and getting caught up to the majority of the population takes a lot of TIME. The move Rift did is good for the community as it helps new gamers get where they need to and also people who have been playing the game level up and gear a new char quick to till needs of the guild. Its wicked awesome.
You can have your wish....it is called power leveling service....You pay, they level your toon right to the level you need so you can raid with your friends.....maybe you should ask your "friends" to PL you so you can raid with them...If I had friends I would do that for them.....
Your reply has nothing to do with my post. This thread has nothing to do with how long it takes to level a char. Also to the OP, many people here have told you what Pay 2 Win means. If you dont get it Im not sure this thread is worth posting in. Pay 2 Win means your cash means you win. Done. There is no, well this is how you feel and this is how I feel so thats that. The best gear in Rifts cash shop is far from the best. Its just a starting point to get you playing with your friends. Done!!!
Nothing wrong with having entry level raid gear available.
If people have disposable income and they choose to go that route, how does it affect me? It doesn't. DPS meters don't Lie, Healers cant buy ability to heal well and tanks can buy the ability to tank/hold aggro.
Not gonna lie, I bought $100 worth of creds last night. To open up bag slots, get a couple mounts a like, unlock the storm legion souls and even twink out a lowbie or two.
Who cares what I do. Im the one paying for it.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
does it matter if the game is better and you don't know it? even if a game is better now since you quit, you you wont know until you play it again. at sub games almost none quilter ever returns (except wow maybe), so those games are doomed to fail, even they are way better than they were some time ago.
also a game that turns f2p, most of the times has much more incomes than when it was subbed. this allow devs and companies to give more to develop the game, instead of planning how to shut it down.
gameplay also gets better, because you will not play in ghosts servers and towns. its the worst thing in a mmo. check wow forums. the no1 problem of the population is the empty servers after the big decline. i faced it too in twilights hammer. it sucks.
as it concerns RIFT, its already a MUCH better game than it was in the past. SL moved it to a higher quality lvl. if it wasn't f2p none would tale notice of it and with the small amount of subs, the possibility to shut down was big.
so yes, a model like RIFT's f2p can make a game better.
Nobody likes it when someone else can get something quicker and easier than them. Instead of seeing it as a personal accomplishment... "I did it the hard way"... they see it as "They've cheapened the game by giving away what I worked for".
Why does it matter that someone can start raiding as soon as they hit max level? You don't have to raid with them.
Why does it matter that they don't know how to play their class? You don't have to play with them.
Why does it matter that someone got their gear sooner than you? Eventually you will both be in the same gear.
Odds are, the person that gets there first, wherever that *there* is, leaves first. So unless you're looking for a short pitstop in the game, these people are fleeting at best.
What is the problem? It not even competitive so why would you care if someone pays and he wins? Will you lose if he wins? In fact I would say you win if your in a raid with him. If it effect PvP and you lose because he payed for something with money then I can see the problem.
Half information is bad and makes you look bad. The gear you are talking about is entry level gear to help people get ready for more challenging stuff.
I will never understand why you people do this everytime? post mis information without making any effort to first educate yourself on facts?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
agree - i see no issues w selling entry gear
EQ2 fan sites
If filling in the gaps in your gear when you first hit max level is your definition of pay to win then you haven't played many free to play games.
All die, so die well.
couldn't agree more
RIFT gives you all the races. all the classes. all the UI options, bars and tools. ALL the content (dungeons/raids/warfronts, events etc), with the addition to do them as many times as it pleases you (unlike swtor e.g.) . all items/gear/weapons. full access to forums. full ingame support (yes dear swtor, RIFT let ppl make petitions and speak with a GM even as f2p) etc etc etc all of those are COMPLETELY FREE!
so, dont you think crying and whining about NORMAL dungeon gear in cash shop, is a bit TOO MUCH?
anyway as it concerns me its the best model (not only as f2p) i have ever experienced in a mmo.
thx a lot TRION and keep up the good work