Concerns after playing P3

Cymdai

I have a few concerns after beta.

While the game is incredibly polished and pristine in it's presentation, the depth of the game gave me cause for concern.

From what I was able to gather from the last few days, and mind you, I could be totally wrong:

1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear. This leads me to believe that there won't be much of an economy as a result, since there's no need to trade, either.
2) I saw a lot, like a whole lot, of players complaining about being bored within 45 minutes of playing. This doesn't bode well for me. Having a strong game that looks impressive and plays smoothly is incredibly underrated, but if your game can't compel people to keep playing it, than all that is irrelevant. I'm concerned about the retention power of 14.
3) Combat is still spammy and boring. This wasn't addressed from closed beta. You're face-rolling your keyboard, or pressing 1 -> 2 for half the game. Though I was at least excited to see some placement skills and dodging of enemy skills being possible.

But most notable of all to me was this:

The simplicity.

The game emphasizes questing and cutscenes and storylines, saying that it wanted a different approach from FFXI (see: tank and spank for 4 hours). They said they wanted to diversify the gameplay, and make it more unique. Well, the problem is that they failed to do that entirely. 

In fact, I feel like there's TOO many quests. Some of them are so pitifully easy that it begs the question of "Why was this even a quest at all?". Walking from an NPC to less than 10 seconds away to pick up 3 ______ from the ground is worth more exp than killing 15 mobs? Why is that? was there some grave amount of skill used in doing so? Not only that, but the quests are incredibly redundant, especially in the first 20 levels. It's essentially all "Deliver, fetch, kill X and collect Y" quests. There's legitimately no challenge or innovation at all, yet there's a discouragement on "grinding". Yet, at least to me personally, at least grinding is convenient. I'm doing something more than picking up coins scattered around town, I'm in combat.

Again, while I haven't seen the whole game yet, from what I have seen, I'm not seeing a lot of depth, innovation, or complexity. Which is fine, maybe they're not going for that. However, I think those 3 aspects have a huge impact on a game's staying power and longevity.

Did anyone here experience these same thoughts? After playing GW2, and SWtoR, and several other modern MMO's, I just had a difficult time finding a lot of originality or points of interest, but instead was saturated with the sensation of "I've been here and done all this before..."

koboldfodder

Tasks.  Those are what you are talking about.  A Quest is a journey of sorts, where you end up with the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

 

Some of Everquest's quests were like that.  The Soulfire, Burning Rapier...etc.  LOTRO has a bunch of nice quests, sure they involve interacting with objects or killing X of Y mobs but the end justifies the means.

 

FFXIV....uh, no.  Those are not quests.  Those are simple tasks where you do not have to think, or even really read the text.  They wanted to WOWify their game and they did exactly that.

Raxeon

you can craft better gear than what the npc sell or what the quest give you im not sure about the end game stuff but crafting is going to be used for the housing and everything

Raxeon

Originally posted by koboldfodder

Tasks.  Those are what you are talking about.  A Quest is a journey of sorts, where you end up with the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

 

Some of Everquest's quests were like that.  The Soulfire, Burning Rapier...etc.  LOTRO has a bunch of nice quests, sure they involve interacting with objects or killing X of Y mobs but the end justifies the means.

 

FFXIV....uh, no.  Those are not quests.  Those are simple tasks where you do not have to think, or even really read the text.  They wanted to WOWify their game and they did exactly that.

its only the questing part thats simuliar to wow too and that will end after a few classes are leveled

gandles

like i was saying earlier this game isn't much different than 1.0, dumbed down graphics, same skills, same armor, same weapons,only diff is jump and an extended map and fate system, not much different going on here

Murugan

1.  No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment.  This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for.  Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.

2.  I didn't see this, I saw the opposite.  Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.

3.  If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot. 

• Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5. 
• Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
• Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6.  You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2. 
• Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
• Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
• Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.

 

You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face.  I'd subscribe.

 

Your most important thing is just that you are jaded.  You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance.  Well... not everyone is so jaded.  New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice.  Without which this MMO actually would fail.  As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck.  But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.

Carnicide

I've pretty much have played every MMO since FFXI first came out. This game does have the feel of a traditional MMO; questing, fetching, events(called Fates), but you and me got 2 completely different responses from the player base. On the server I was in I didn't hear one negative remark towards the game, or anyone bored. The story was the one thing that really made me stop and want to read the text. It's good, the NPCs have character. They have emotions and it adds to. The crafting is also completely different from any other MMO, it's an actual class. I'm not sure why you felt bored, maybe the Japanese art style/ FF theme isn't for you?

Alberel

Couple of points:

• You're completely wrong about the crafting. The materia system alone is going to make all elements of the crafting system nigh essential to improving your gear. Materia is produced from breaking down equipment that has been used long enough to fill its special xp gauge. That means players are going to need a constant supply of high quality gear to consistently level and break down.
• Please also bear in mind that once you have done a quest it is done for good... when you return to level another class you will have to find an alternative for leveling and that will mean a similar alternative for better gear (hint: crafting).
• The spammy combat is a result of a multitude of things:
  • You are low level and have few skills.
  • You have not unlocked many cross-class skill combinations which add a great deal of variety to combat.
  • Lower level content is easier as it is essentially tutorial content (1-10 primarily).
• Your issue with the quests is entirely your fault for feeling forced to do them. The quests in this game are non-linear. There are no hubs with a linear path leading you from A to B. It has been stated that you can level a class on nothing but the main story quests. Please remember that this game's content is designed to accomodate a player leveling EVERY class. You are not expected to do everything on one class and any quest content completed will be unavailable to the other classes. TO put it bluntly the quests will offer an easy leveling route for your first or second class... beyond that you'll have to play other content to level.

No one is really in any position to criticise this game's content and systems until they're playing through on a second or third class as the experience will be very different.

Silverbarr

Originally posted by Murugan

1.  No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment.  This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for.  Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.

2.  I didn't see this, I saw the opposite.  Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.

3.  If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot. 

• Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5. 
• Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
• Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6.  You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2. 
• Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
• Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
• Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.

 

You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face.  I'd subscribe.

 

Your most important thing is just that you are jaded.  You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance.  Well... not everyone is so jaded.  New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice.  Without which this MMO actually would fail.  As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck.  But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.

This is a fantastic post, not played the game yet but seeing such logic on these forums is a rarity.

Xatsh

1) HQ gear has better stats and cannot be purchased. Gear with materia in it surpasses low tier dungeon drops. HQ gear with multi-materia will surpass the good dungeon drops.

IT sounds like a hq fully melded piece will surpass most drops besides high end raid gear.

Crafting in this game seems to be to more valuable then almost every mmo out there. Just wish they would add rare material drops from boss fights.

2) I am not sure where you were but the overwhelming feeling on my server was the beta was great. Most the post across the web are very positive as well. I did see some vocal trolls shouting. But 5-10 people is sorta nothing compaired to the thousands that were online.

3) The battle system improves when you get higher and get multiple classes leveled. But yes I still say the battle system needs some work. Not horrible but one of the weakest areas of the game atm in my opinion.

 

Trash quest are a staple of mainstream mmos... so we will have pointless junk in all games now.  On the complexity the game does lack complexity it is something we been complaining about since Alpha. The devs are saying if they have it though the playerbase will be to confused more or less. Aka they are intentionally overly dumbing down the early levels, I hope this does not continue as we get higher. The over all issue is people rage when they wipe to something more then twice and moan that it is not fun so the devs change it. That level 15 main story quest people were sure raging on all over. Was a good fight in my opinion required you to think, I waiting for the nerf to come though.

kichise

Originally posted by Cymdai

I have a few concerns after beta.

While the game is incredibly polished and pristine in it's presentation, the depth of the game gave me cause for concern.

From what I was able to gather from the last few days, and mind you, I could be totally wrong:

1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear. This leads me to believe that there won't be much of an economy as a result, since there's no need to trade, either.
2) I saw a lot, like a whole lot, of players complaining about being bored within 45 minutes of playing. This doesn't bode well for me. Having a strong game that looks impressive and plays smoothly is incredibly underrated, but if your game can't compel people to keep playing it, than all that is irrelevant. I'm concerned about the retention power of 14.
3) Combat is still spammy and boring. This wasn't addressed from closed beta. You're face-rolling your keyboard, or pressing 1 -> 2 for half the game. Though I was at least excited to see some placement skills and dodging of enemy skills being possible.

 

1. Crafting does produce better leveling gear and it's very important in end-game. Even with slower spirit-bonding speed, I know my character will be going through at least 5 sets a day on just AV pugs or whatever endgame is available. That means 5 sets of whatever gear I can sacrifice and still play my WHM efficiently. Even now that melding no longer breaks gear, there will at least be a little demand for the Relic catalyst items, which requires DoH Lv48+ to make. Also, there is Hamlet, an instance that requires DoH and DoL, to debuff the enemies. Hamlet was possible without them but much more difficult. I'm not sure if Hamlet will still exist but it shows the potential for DoH/DoL in dungeons.

2. The leveling in this game is as fun as any other WoW clone, now, and there's a lot of people that like that stuff. Traveling to cities to start sub jobs, like going to Grid to level CNJ for Cure, just so some players can defeat the masked mage -- all this stuff, does add something special, bringing back the old MMO feel players love, making the quest grind a little bearable -- but yea, it is boring unless you love your character and want to reach endgame, just like every MMO though.

3. 1.23 had interesting end-game, combat wise. To SSR some of the dungeons, for example, a WHM had to be absolutely on top of his rotations. Pre-casting and timing sacred prisms. Using PoM for just the right time, or with sacred prism and stoneskin  to completely counter Chimera's pull-in. Even when end-game is beaten, there's always ways to tweak your playstyle to do it even better, and produce more and more gains. Combine this with a consistent static-party to completely dominate with, ohohoho mann. That's what today's MMO endgame is really about, IMO, and I have no doubt 2.0 will have those fun opportunities as well.

 

 

 

rykim86

Originally posted by gandles
like i was saying earlier this game isn't much different than 1.0, dumbed down graphics, same skills, same armor, same weapons,only diff is jump and an extended map and fate system, not much different going on here

This is so incorrect it's actually hilarious.

svann

Simple delivery tasks are typically given in the noob levels to acquaint players with the lay of the land.

redcloud16

In terms of people saying they are bored. . . . I literally played this beta test weekend from the moment it was up to the moment it was closed (minus a few hours for sleep of course) and not once did I hear people saying that they were bored. I also tried three different servers. But that was my experience. 

 

Also, as for your comment about the quests . . . they are optional. If you don't like them, that's the beauty of it, you don't have to do them. The only quests that are mandatory are the Main Scenario quests, because they unlock features. And your class quests starting at level 15, or you won't be operating at maximum output. There are so many other options to level up with you don't even have to do any of the sidequests if you don't want. 

Another thing on the quests.

In A lot of MMOs, when you go to do a quest, you get a block of text spouted at you trying to justify the kill x or pick up y. Most of the time its trying too hard or nobody cares.

In this one, I am almost forcing myself to NOT read the text, to save myself for release. The NPCs dialogue is often times funny or they have an accent, or their motivations are comical (or serious).  The quest you mentioned where you had to pick up the coins from that woman near the Gladiator Guild was hilarious, she just had this awful attitude and then when you turn int eh quest she just looks at you and is like "Reward?!" Ahahahaha. Great.

My point is these quests are way more story driven, and it doesn't matter to me that they are all kill X or get Y, its the stories behind them. If you can't be bothered to read, then don't bother doing them. One of the main selling points of this game is the Story. 

n3v3rriv3r

Originally posted by Cymdai

1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear.

Heh.

You never needed to purchase any gear? How did you pass the quest that checks if your gear is high enough on 5 slots? You cannot get pants with quests until that point. The quest forces you to buy pants to go ahead.

pantheron

I Played 1.0 until i had realized i spent about 10 hours trying to figure out what i was doing, TRYING to get a new piece of good gear, and then crafting a wand that was worse than the starter wand. if anything, this is a welcome change for me, what you describe.  I might give it a go. 

dontadow

Originally posted by Raxeon

Originally posted by koboldfodder

Tasks.  Those are what you are talking about.  A Quest is a journey of sorts, where you end up with the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

 

Some of Everquest's quests were like that.  The Soulfire, Burning Rapier...etc.  LOTRO has a bunch of nice quests, sure they involve interacting with objects or killing X of Y mobs but the end justifies the means.

 

FFXIV....uh, no.  Those are not quests.  Those are simple tasks where you do not have to think, or even really read the text.  They wanted to WOWify their game and they did exactly that.

its only the questing part thats simuliar to wow too and that will end after a few classes are leveled

 

Agreed, that was the problem earlier, and i just chose to ignore them and go out and do FATES. I stuck to two quest lines, my class line and the mian quest, which felt more important than (kneel before zod) 

Cymdai

Originally posted by Murugan

1.  No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment.  This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for.  Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.

2.  I didn't see this, I saw the opposite.  Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.

3.  If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot. 

• Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5. 
• Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
• Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6.  You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2. 
• Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
• Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
• Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.

 

You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face.  I'd subscribe.

 

Your most important thing is just that you are jaded.  You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance.  Well... not everyone is so jaded.  New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice.  Without which this MMO actually would fail.  As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck.  But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.

While I applaud the defense of the game, I don't appreciate you turning the defense of the game into a "It's not the game, it's you" style argument. Don't attack me or my play style for citing flaws. That's weak.

 

To counter:

1) You could easily adjust your skills for the branching combos. Why do 1-8-2? Why wouldn't I just (at that level range) for 1-2-3? That's poor hotkey management, not complexity. I can do 1-2-3 with my elbows, and would be happy to stream it if you'd like.

2) The point about crafting is fair, but you're missing the bigger message. Crafting might be useful late game, but what about the rest of it? Why does everyone seem to keep missing that point. There's 49 levels of exping before you get to the end game. Should we just accept that it has essentially no purpose for 49 levels? That seems flawed in idea and execution. And even if it is profitable, what are you going to use the gil on? Other materia? Even further, if the only purpose is for the mild min/max appeal of HQ gear (+1 STR, +1 DEX, etc) than it really is truly useless.

I'm not Jaded, in fact, it's the opposite. I've played enough to have a standard, both for standalone games and re-releases. I can appreciate everyone praising the technical aspects of this game, because it's a very technically sound game. But it's not ground-breaking, it's not the best game in the past 10 years, etc etc. It's not FFXI-2 either. I don't understand how you can pretend that criticism of the game is irrelevant, or even worse, wrong, and somehow the fault of the player. If getting 2 jobs to level 30, and a craft, is still not enough to crush skepticism, than what is?

I think the fatal flaw of the game as it stands is that it banks entirely on the premise of "The game starts at 50", but it forgets that people have to get to 50 first.

Murugan

Originally posted by dontadow

Originally posted by Raxeon

Originally posted by koboldfodder

Tasks.  Those are what you are talking about.  A Quest is a journey of sorts, where you end up with the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

 

Some of Everquest's quests were like that.  The Soulfire, Burning Rapier...etc.  LOTRO has a bunch of nice quests, sure they involve interacting with objects or killing X of Y mobs but the end justifies the means.

 

FFXIV....uh, no.  Those are not quests.  Those are simple tasks where you do not have to think, or even really read the text.  They wanted to WOWify their game and they did exactly that.

its only the questing part thats simuliar to wow too and that will end after a few classes are leveled

 

Agreed, that was the problem earlier, and i just chose to ignore them and go out and do FATES. I stuck to two quest lines, my class line and the mian quest, which felt more important than (kneel before zod) 

You can choose to ignore them, but the sidequests actually do contain a lot of lore which is meant to enhance those class/main questlines by giving you a deeper understanding of why the world is like it is.  It is nothing absolutely pertinent, but if you are interested in learning more about Isghard, beastmen, politics in Eorzea, the super long and detailed history of the world then sidequests provide a lot of that.

 

So if you take the time to read them you might have a greater appreciation for the game world you are playing in.  However, there are some like busting the work stoppage at silver bazaar that really don't give any great insight into anything.  There are also a lot of quests there to provide some light humor.  But you don't know unless you do them, and read them.

 

I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone with limited time to do every sidequest in any RPG, but they serve a purpose to allow for a TON more backstory than other method of delivery could offer.  Luckily the FFXIV community has many people who gleam lore details from all these quests and compile/summarize them so people can just read that rather than doing random quests if they want.

 

So you won't be lost without them, but many have pretty interesting stuff in them.  Personally I don't do quests for leveling, but when I'm bored later I'll go back and snail level a class I don't NEED by doing them because I do find some of it interesting.  Then later when something is referenced in the main storyline/class storylines etc.  or I come upon a ruin of Sil'dah in-game (or an Allaghan Empire ruin) I have some backstory to it.  I can go hey cool look, that's "_____". 

 

But if you don't its just a ruin to you, nothing wrong with that but it is nice to know that things don't just exist in the game world because they needed an object to place at coordinate 15, 8 so the map would look more interesting.

Ridelynn

It was hard for me to judge the depth of the combat without having enough time to get a few classes at least up past 10.

The combat for my newbie single class felt very shallow, but remembering from 1.0, it really started to get interesting once you leveled up some other classes and started to get synergistic abilities and discover some of the more interesting combos.

I'll be sad if that part of the game went away.

evilastro

Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r

Originally posted by Cymdai

1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear.

Heh.

You never needed to purchase any gear? How did you pass the quest that checks if your gear is high enough on 5 slots? You cannot get pants with quests until that point. The quest forces you to buy pants to go ahead.

It doesn't. You do get pants from a quest, you must have missed it.

Crafting? Its better than quested gear. Not essential, but some players always prefer the path of least resistance, so I think there will be sufficient demand.

Ventlus

Originally posted by Cymdai

Originally posted by Murugan

1.  No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment.  This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for.  Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.

2.  I didn't see this, I saw the opposite.  Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.

3.  If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot. 

• Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5. 
• Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
• Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6.  You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2. 
• Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
• Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
• Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.

 

You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face.  I'd subscribe.

 

Your most important thing is just that you are jaded.  You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance.  Well... not everyone is so jaded.  New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice.  Without which this MMO actually would fail.  As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck.  But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.

While I applaud the defense of the game, I don't appreciate you turning the defense of the game into a "It's not the game, it's you" style argument. Don't attack me or my play style for citing flaws. That's weak.

 

To counter:

1) You could easily adjust your skills for the branching combos. Why do 1-8-2? Why wouldn't I just (at that level range) for 1-2-3? That's poor hotkey management, not complexity. I can do 1-2-3 with my elbows, and would be happy to stream it if you'd like.

2) The point about crafting is fair, but you're missing the bigger message. Crafting might be useful late game, but what about the rest of it? Why does everyone seem to keep missing that point. There's 49 levels of exping before you get to the end game. Should we just accept that it has essentially no purpose for 49 levels? That seems flawed in idea and execution. And even if it is profitable, what are you going to use the gil on? Other materia? Even further, if the only purpose is for the mild min/max appeal of HQ gear (+1 STR, +1 DEX, etc) than it really is truly useless.

I'm not Jaded, in fact, it's the opposite. I've played enough to have a standard, both for standalone games and re-releases. I can appreciate everyone praising the technical aspects of this game, because it's a very technically sound game. But it's not ground-breaking, it's not the best game in the past 10 years, etc etc. It's not FFXI-2 either. I don't understand how you can pretend that criticism of the game is irrelevant, or even worse, wrong, and somehow the fault of the player. If getting 2 jobs to level 30, and a craft, is still not enough to crush skepticism, than what is?

I think the fatal flaw of the game as it stands is that it banks entirely on the premise of "The game starts at 50", but it forgets that people have to get to 50 first.

you seem to be ignoring alot of the threat. Once you have leveled all the one times quests, that leaves you with guildleves/levelquests and dungeons. So for these low level dungeons you want good gear because you don't have the quests to give you gear anymore. If their has been anygame where crafting mattered at all levels, it is FFXI/FFXIV. 

And if people get bored along the way it really is just the personality they have towards the game. It is a themepark type game so if someone doesn't like the themepark their not gonna be as entertained as everyone. 

Murugan

Originally posted by Cymdai

Originally posted by Murugan

1.  No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment.  This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for.  Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.

2.  I didn't see this, I saw the opposite.  Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.

3.  If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot. 

• Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5. 
• Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
• Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6.  You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2. 
• Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
• Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
• Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.

 

You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face.  I'd subscribe.

 

Your most important thing is just that you are jaded.  You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance.  Well... not everyone is so jaded.  New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice.  Without which this MMO actually would fail.  As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck.  But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.

While I applaud the defense of the game, I don't appreciate you turning the defense of the game into a "It's not the game, it's you" style argument. Don't attack me or my play style for citing flaws. That's weak.

 

To counter:

1) You could easily adjust your skills for the branching combos. Why do 1-8-2? Why wouldn't I just (at that level range) for 1-2-3? That's poor hotkey management, not complexity. I can do 1-2-3 with my elbows, and would be happy to stream it if you'd like.

2) The point about crafting is fair, but you're missing the bigger message. Crafting might be useful late game, but what about the rest of it? Why does everyone seem to keep missing that point. There's 49 levels of exping before you get to the end game. Should we just accept that it has essentially no purpose for 49 levels? That seems flawed in idea and execution. And even if it is profitable, what are you going to use the gil on? Other materia? Even further, if the only purpose is for the mild min/max appeal of HQ gear (+1 STR, +1 DEX, etc) than it really is truly useless.

I'm not Jaded, in fact, it's the opposite. I've played enough to have a standard, both for standalone games and re-releases. I can appreciate everyone praising the technical aspects of this game, because it's a very technically sound game. But it's not ground-breaking, it's not the best game in the past 10 years, etc etc. It's not FFXI-2 either. I don't understand how you can pretend that criticism of the game is irrelevant, or even worse, wrong, and somehow the fault of the player. If getting 2 jobs to level 30, and a craft, is still not enough to crush skepticism, than what is?

I think the fatal flaw of the game as it stands is that it banks entirely on the premise of "The game starts at 50", but it forgets that people have to get to 50 first.

Your weakness in this argument is that you have to resort to hyperbole and "threats" of fatal flaws, wild assumptions, and doomsday scenarios, and supposed anectodal evidence to try and prove your points.  It is a very unflattering style of debate, and I'm gonna eventually just ignore you if you cannot be civil or make solid arguments.

 

1.  You picked one example out of everything I wrote to counter your claim that combat could be played by smashing your face into the keyboard, and even here I'm sorry but I don't think you understand what branching means.  Branching means in the combo you have for example an option to go for more damage, or MP regen.  So you make choices based upon your situation, so no you can't just set them to 1-2-3 in this example. 

 

You didn't counter anything else I wrote in regards to combat so I'll wait till you do to expand on that.

 

2,  I didn't even mention end game at all in regards to crafting.  I pointed out to you that in a beta people do not go out of their way to equip their characters in optimal gear for their levels, they equip whatever they can get away to see content because everything will be wiped and they do not have an attachment to that character.  After launch a lot of people DO care, they do care that their level 15 Gladiator is decked out in the best gear before they go tank for their friends, because they have pride in their character.  

 

You seem absolutely jaded to me.  I have read your posts here, the fact that you think you just have 'standards" is proof that you are jaded.  Everyone has standards, everyone also has fantasies, but you take your fantasies and you hold reality to it.  I was like you once after I quit Vanguard.  I wanted a return to FFXI CoP era, I wanted Vanguard not to be a disaster, I felt BETRAYED by the industry and isolated in a gaming community I saw as "LCD" and "lazy" and I had no hope.  Then I got a grip, and yanked the stick out of my ass.  Now I can have fun again because I don't just hate everything that doesn't fit my little fantasy world.

 

Reality is not so bleak as you seem to think.  I just feel bad for you if you feel the need to be so negative towards others enjoyment of things, as if it is an affront to you simply because you are incapable of enjoying yourself.  If you want to discuss points of the game I'd be glad to.  Yes I am a fan, but I'm not going to throw a temper tantrum because you don't like the games I do.  I'll just post my opinions and analysis, and maybe someday you will come around. 

 

Or maybe it will just save some people from reading your seemingly bleak and jaded outlook and "jumping off the bridge after you".  Everyone feels the way you do sometimes, but you gotta embrace what makes you happy.  It might not be this game, go find something that does.  The reassuring feelings when others post in agreement with your diatribes and rantings are nothing compared to the feeling of sharing joyful experiences with other human beings.  Don't become just another internet troll, embrace what you enjoy and be happy for others who have found happiness themselves. 

 

I'm not here to attack you or take away anything from your life.  I don't even know you, and I actually don't take the fact that you post negatively about my choice in an MMO to wish you any ill will.  You can't recriprocate that goodwill?  You have to uncover my "sinister plot" to fool people into believing that I; a person who has played MMO's for decades, who doesn't even like the Final Fantasy series to be honest, just happens to like this MMO and this director and respects and appreciates the product they have given me which I enjoy immensely.

Avarix

Originally posted by Cymdai

I have a few concerns after beta.

While the game is incredibly polished and pristine in it's presentation, the depth of the game gave me cause for concern.

From what I was able to gather from the last few days, and mind you, I could be totally wrong:

1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear. This leads me to believe that there won't be much of an economy as a result, since there's no need to trade, either.
2) I saw a lot, like a whole lot, of players complaining about being bored within 45 minutes of playing. This doesn't bode well for me. Having a strong game that looks impressive and plays smoothly is incredibly underrated, but if your game can't compel people to keep playing it, than all that is irrelevant. I'm concerned about the retention power of 14.
3) Combat is still spammy and boring. This wasn't addressed from closed beta. You're face-rolling your keyboard, or pressing 1 -> 2 for half the game. Though I was at least excited to see some placement skills and dodging of enemy skills being possible.

But most notable of all to me was this:

The simplicity.

The game emphasizes questing and cutscenes and storylines, saying that it wanted a different approach from FFXI (see: tank and spank for 4 hours). They said they wanted to diversify the gameplay, and make it more unique. Well, the problem is that they failed to do that entirely. 

In fact, I feel like there's TOO many quests. Some of them are so pitifully easy that it begs the question of "Why was this even a quest at all?". Walking from an NPC to less than 10 seconds away to pick up 3 ______ from the ground is worth more exp than killing 15 mobs? Why is that? was there some grave amount of skill used in doing so? Not only that, but the quests are incredibly redundant, especially in the first 20 levels. It's essentially all "Deliver, fetch, kill X and collect Y" quests. There's legitimately no challenge or innovation at all, yet there's a discouragement on "grinding". Yet, at least to me personally, at least grinding is convenient. I'm doing something more than picking up coins scattered around town, I'm in combat.

Again, while I haven't seen the whole game yet, from what I have seen, I'm not seeing a lot of depth, innovation, or complexity. Which is fine, maybe they're not going for that. However, I think those 3 aspects have a huge impact on a game's staying power and longevity.

Did anyone here experience these same thoughts? After playing GW2, and SWtoR, and several other modern MMO's, I just had a difficult time finding a lot of originality or points of interest, but instead was saturated with the sensation of "I've been here and done all this before..."

This was my experience as well. I simply don't see the same game that people keep posting amazing things about. I think they played it far too safe with ARR. It feels like a game that I have already played umpteen times before. The kicker for me though was that the game doesn't focus on parties, at all. It's not just solo friendly, but actually rewarding to solo play. Needing a party (Reliance on others) to me was a staple of FFXI and something I can't get past with FFXIV: ARR.

Alberel

Originally posted by Cymdai

Originally posted by Murugan

1.  No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment.  This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for.  Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.

2.  I didn't see this, I saw the opposite.  Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.

3.  If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot. 

• Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5. 
• Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
• Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6.  You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2. 
• Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
• Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
• Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.

 

You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face.  I'd subscribe.

 

Your most important thing is just that you are jaded.  You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance.  Well... not everyone is so jaded.  New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice.  Without which this MMO actually would fail.  As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck.  But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.

While I applaud the defense of the game, I don't appreciate you turning the defense of the game into a "It's not the game, it's you" style argument. Don't attack me or my play style for citing flaws. That's weak.

 

To counter:

1) You could easily adjust your skills for the branching combos. Why do 1-8-2? Why wouldn't I just (at that level range) for 1-2-3? That's poor hotkey management, not complexity. I can do 1-2-3 with my elbows, and would be happy to stream it if you'd like.

2) The point about crafting is fair, but you're missing the bigger message. Crafting might be useful late game, but what about the rest of it? Why does everyone seem to keep missing that point. There's 49 levels of exping before you get to the end game. Should we just accept that it has essentially no purpose for 49 levels? That seems flawed in idea and execution. And even if it is profitable, what are you going to use the gil on? Other materia? Even further, if the only purpose is for the mild min/max appeal of HQ gear (+1 STR, +1 DEX, etc) than it really is truly useless.

I'm not Jaded, in fact, it's the opposite. I've played enough to have a standard, both for standalone games and re-releases. I can appreciate everyone praising the technical aspects of this game, because it's a very technically sound game. But it's not ground-breaking, it's not the best game in the past 10 years, etc etc. It's not FFXI-2 either. I don't understand how you can pretend that criticism of the game is irrelevant, or even worse, wrong, and somehow the fault of the player. If getting 2 jobs to level 30, and a craft, is still not enough to crush skepticism, than what is?

I think the fatal flaw of the game as it stands is that it banks entirely on the premise of "The game starts at 50", but it forgets that people have to get to 50 first.

You're being highly selective about who you bother replying to in this thread which is rather frustrating. Many of your counter-arguments have already been countered by earlier posts...

1. You just ignored half of what the person you're quoting said with regards to combos. You cannot have the combos set up perfectly on your hotbar because the same skills are used in different combos. If you set up 1-2-3-4-5 on your hotbar for one combo another combo is going to use those same skills in a different order... The pugilist/monk in particular is important here as the order you use their skills in a combo produces a different effect meaning you are going to be regularly using different combos to suit the situation... I really would love to see you faceroll that.
2. Crafting is useful throughout ALL levels. It is you who is missing the bigger picture. 1-50 is only one class. You are going to have other classes to level and they will not have quests to give them gear. They will need to buy it and crafting will be the best source. Why do you keep deliberately ignoring the previous posts that have stated this?

The problem here is not the game, or people trying to defend against any kind of justified criticism. The problem here is that you are looking at a tiny section of the beginning of the game and judging the entire experience based on that. You seem to be missing just how big an impact the multi-class system has on all the other game systems.

Cymdai

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by Cymdai

Originally posted by Murugan

1.  No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment.  This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for.  Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.

2.  I didn't see this, I saw the opposite.  Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.

3.  If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot. 

• Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5. 
• Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
• Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6.  You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2. 
• Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
• Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
• Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.

 

You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face.  I'd subscribe.

 

Your most important thing is just that you are jaded.  You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance.  Well... not everyone is so jaded.  New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice.  Without which this MMO actually would fail.  As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck.  But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.

While I applaud the defense of the game, I don't appreciate you turning the defense of the game into a "It's not the game, it's you" style argument. Don't attack me or my play style for citing flaws. That's weak.

 

To counter:

1) You could easily adjust your skills for the branching combos. Why do 1-8-2? Why wouldn't I just (at that level range) for 1-2-3? That's poor hotkey management, not complexity. I can do 1-2-3 with my elbows, and would be happy to stream it if you'd like.

2) The point about crafting is fair, but you're missing the bigger message. Crafting might be useful late game, but what about the rest of it? Why does everyone seem to keep missing that point. There's 49 levels of exping before you get to the end game. Should we just accept that it has essentially no purpose for 49 levels? That seems flawed in idea and execution. And even if it is profitable, what are you going to use the gil on? Other materia? Even further, if the only purpose is for the mild min/max appeal of HQ gear (+1 STR, +1 DEX, etc) than it really is truly useless.

I'm not Jaded, in fact, it's the opposite. I've played enough to have a standard, both for standalone games and re-releases. I can appreciate everyone praising the technical aspects of this game, because it's a very technically sound game. But it's not ground-breaking, it's not the best game in the past 10 years, etc etc. It's not FFXI-2 either. I don't understand how you can pretend that criticism of the game is irrelevant, or even worse, wrong, and somehow the fault of the player. If getting 2 jobs to level 30, and a craft, is still not enough to crush skepticism, than what is?

I think the fatal flaw of the game as it stands is that it banks entirely on the premise of "The game starts at 50", but it forgets that people have to get to 50 first.

Your weakness in this argument is that you have to resort to hyperbole and "threats" of fatal flaws, wild assumptions, and doomsday scenarios, and supposed anectodal evidence to try and prove your points.  It is a very unflattering style of debate, and I'm gonna eventually just ignore you if you cannot be civil or make solid arguments.

 

1.  You picked one example out of everything I wrote to counter your claim that combat could be played by smashing your face into the keyboard, and even here I'm sorry but I don't think you understand what branching means.  Branching means in the combo you have for example an option to go for more damage, or MP regen.  So you make choices based upon your situation, so no you can't just set them to 1-2-3 in this example. 

 

You didn't counter anything else I wrote in regards to combat so I'll wait till you do to expand on that.

 

2,  I didn't even mention end game at all in regards to crafting.  I pointed out to you that in a beta people do not go out of their way to equip their characters in optimal gear for their levels, they equip whatever they can get away to see content because everything will be wiped and they do not have an attachment to that character.  After launch a lot of people DO care, they do care that their level 15 Gladiator is decked out in the best gear before they go tank for their friends, because they have pride in their character.  

 

You seem absolutely jaded to me.  I have read your posts here, the fact that you think you just have 'standards" is proof that you are jaded.  Everyone has standards, everyone also has fantasies, but you take your fantasies and you hold reality to it.  I was like you once after I quit Vanguard.  I wanted a return to FFXI CoP era, I wanted Vanguard not to be a disaster, I felt BETRAYED by the industry and isolated in a gaming community I saw as "LCD" and "lazy" and I had no hope.  Then I got a grip, and yanked the stick out of my ass.  Now I can have fun again because I don't just hate everything that doesn't fit my little fantasy world.

 

Reality is not so bleak as you seem to think.  I just feel bad for you if you feel the need to be so negative towards others enjoyment of things, as if it is an affront to you simply because you are incapable of enjoying yourself.  If you want to discuss points of the game I'd be glad to.  Yes I am a fan, but I'm not going to throw a temper tantrum because you don't like the games I do.  I'll just post my opinions and analysis, and maybe someday you will come around. 

 

Or maybe it will just save some people from reading your seemingly bleak and jaded outlook and "jumping off the bridge after you".  Everyone feels the way you do sometimes, but you gotta embrace what makes you happy.  It might not be this game, go find something that does.  The reassuring feelings when others post in agreement with your diatribes and rantings are nothing compared to the feeling of sharing joyful experiences with other human beings.  Don't become just another internet troll, embrace what you enjoy and be happy for others who have found happiness themselves. 

 

I'm not here to attack you or take away anything from your life.  I don't even know you, and I actually don't take the fact that you post negatively about my choice in an MMO to wish you any ill will.  You can't recriprocate that goodwill?  You have to uncover my "sinister plot" to fool people into believing that I; a person who has played MMO's for decades, who doesn't even like the Final Fantasy series to be honest, just happens to like this MMO and this director and respects and appreciates the product they have given me which I enjoy immensely.

You're the only one who is making personal attacks. Re-read all the posts, you'll see it.  I countered your criticism, and you took it personally. I don't know how else to explain it to you. There's no threat, that's your perception. It's my opinion. I don't know if I've ever seen someone get so defensive for no reason at all.

 

1) Yes, you can. No matter what you're doing, you can always adjust skills based on party comps and mob types. If you're using combo A, move the designated skills into 1-2-3 position. If you absolutely need to, you can put another one at 4. There simply aren't that many skills for 2/3 of the game to need more than that. If you're fighting a target where DPS is necessary, then that's you're 1-2-3. If you need a heal built in, the 1-2-4. Or if you need MP regen, 1-2-5. It's going to vary based  on party comp and mob type, but that's it. There's no real threat early on especially.

2) While "twinking" or "smurfing" or whatever does happen, how many people actually min/max? I don't think most people typically sweat over 1-2 attribute points here or there, and with loot rewards throughout the game, they'll be able to get by just fine by doing quests and some dungeons. Those who don't want to do that will probably just craft themselves, because crafting is a) that easy, b) that accessible, and c) not all that time consuming. Did you craft at all, out of curiosity? If you did, you know how incredibly simple it is to gather the mats yourself, and leveling is super simple. Getting an HQ, on the contrary, is very unlikely without high levels; especially one with meaningful bonuses. The alternative is simply leveling a job up to 50 first, THEN coming back with your crafter who is also at level 50, and then crafting the mats for them. There's no real profit incentive at all on your first playthrough for crafting, because there's no real demand for the gear. While a launch will definitely impact an economy, I can't imagine for a second that it'll be anywhere near as many people as you think demanding top-tier gear, save for the 5% of a server that consists of hardcore players. Even then, they tend to have in-house craftsmen anyway.

Your next 3 paragraphs reveal your own bias, bitterness, and toxicity. I don't know how you can say "I won't be personal", and then have a 3 paragraph rant about what a horrible, miserable person I am. I'm sorry the industry mistreated you, but I have nothing to do with that at all. Your spewing venom for absolutely no reason at all, other than that I disagree with you. I don't even get it, and I'm not going to touch on it beyond this. Please, get help when you can though.