Personally I appreciate the perspective this OP offers in contrast to the numerous overly positive reviews thus far. I'm still looking forward to trying the game for myself, but I can't say I'll be surprised if I end up agreeing with some/all of the OP's points. Frankly this sort of thing is to be expected in the current MMORPG market. Obviously I'd like to finally be proven wrong about one of these games.
It just continues to baffle me how being critical is now considered synonymous with being jaded. They aren't the same in the slightest. Someone whose jaded wouldn't give enough of a damn to argue their perspective, because apathy and a lack of enthusiasm constitute being jaded. I'd just go "Eh, another WoW clone" and be done with it. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm voicing concerns, and I just find it both appalling and bewildering that concern is belittled. It's got to be a generational thing.
BACK IN MY DAY, you could like something and still disagree with some of the ideas/execution and voice that dissent. Nowadays, it's "Do you like it, or do you hate it?".
*waves cane angrily from porch*
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
It just continues to baffle me how being critical is now considered synonymous with being jaded. They aren't the same in the slightest. Someone whose jaded wouldn't give enough of a damn to argue their perspective, because apathy and a lack of enthusiasm constitute being jaded. I'd just go "Eh, another WoW clone" and be done with it. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm voicing concerns, and I just find it both appalling and bewildering that concern is belittled. It's got to be a generational thing.
BACK IN MY DAY, you could like something and still disagree with some of the ideas/execution and voice that dissent. Nowadays, it's "Do you like it, or do you hate it?".
*waves cane angrily from porch*
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
I didn't call you jaded because you had criticism for the game, I called you jaded because your criticism sounded like that of a jaded person. "I've been here and done all this before..."
What can I say about that which I did not in my original reply. People don't all think that way, and it is literally the textbook definition of being jaded.
Meh, after reading the thread, it does seem like many people are adequately addressing the OP's concerns. Again, haven't played it yet myself, still looking forward to doing so.
For all the reasons in the OP, this game will be a giant failure IMO. Most likely just as bad and possibly worse than the original failure.
I was so bored I uninstalled in one hour. That's the first time any game has ever given me that response, even the original game did not. Sad to say this as it's hard to see my favourite games company has been dying like this lately.
You are in the vast minority, look around you at the forums, beta and not.
The game is amazingly better than it was.
Did you look at Square Enix this year at E3? Dying?
Meh, after reading the thread, it does seem like many people are adequately addressing the OP's concerns. Again, haven't played it yet myself, still looking forward to doing so.
I think Murugan honestly covered everything.
What concern did you have that you want addressed?
Meh, after reading the thread, it does seem like many people are adequately addressing the OP's concerns. Again, haven't played it yet myself, still looking forward to doing so.
I think Murugan honestly covered everything.
What concern did you have that you want addressed?
Did he not say that?=P That people are addressing stuff?
As for myself I only had time to play for 2 hours, but so far I was loving the journey.
This was my experience as well. I simply don't see the same game that people keep posting amazing things about. I think they played it far too safe with ARR. It feels like a game that I have already played umpteen times before. The kicker for me though was that the game doesn't focus on parties, at all. It's not just solo friendly, but actually rewarding to solo play. Needing a party (Reliance on others) to me was a staple of FFXI and something I can't get past with FFXIV: ARR.
So you want a game like FFXI, a game you enjoyed it looks like, yet don't want a 'been here done that' feeling.
I don't think you know what you want.
Every post you've made has been inaccurate or self conflicting.
I like how the example quest which has been defined as horrid is a TUTORIAL QUEST to teach people how to interact with their environment. It's a /tutorial quest/. Those are not ground breaking, those are quests to teach you how to go through the game. The entire initial city quests are all that, go kill this to learn how to fight, go pick this up for me, etc. Why does /anyone/ expect quests to somehow magically be different?
What can quests offer in a fixed game world? You can go get something, or you can kill something. Developers can try to hide that by either making you have to protect something (Still just killing things), or you have to craft it (still just getting something), or combine items or whatever. It's a limit of the MEDIUM not bad design or anything like that.
Lets see, how exactly are we going to affect the game world? Build a house? Ok. Thirty seven thousand other people on your server all need to build a house too. Where did the wilderness go?! Affect the game world? Sure ok, but then what happens to people who are on the same quest and what they need to do is already done? They just sit around with their thumb up their rear?
The whole concept of the 'sandbox' doesn't apply to a fixed world, the game just isn't big enough for that. It's not multiple systems of open space where you can throw down towers and bases and try and 'take control' with you and three thousand of your friends charging rent or whatever. Even SWG ended up getting crowded all to heck with player houses all over and harvesting equipment set up all over... yes, such a wild place, we live next door to a rancor pit cuz that's the only place left on the planet...
Honestly no, the game isn't ground breaking, what it /is/ however, is a very well done mmo with multiple options and a variety of game play options. As for why you'd need more gear... I guess in getting two classes to 30 the OP never noticed that gear has class restrictions. My marauder's gear I can't use on my lancer or my pugilist even though they're melee... so if I want to level those jobs, I /need new gear/. This is not rocket science. Also, crafting can make HQ gear, that alone is better than generic quest rewards so not counting anything else that is worth it right there.
This was my experience as well. I simply don't see the same game that people keep posting amazing things about. I think they played it far too safe with ARR. It feels like a game that I have already played umpteen times before. The kicker for me though was that the game doesn't focus on parties, at all. It's not just solo friendly, but actually rewarding to solo play. Needing a party (Reliance on others) to me was a staple of FFXI and something I can't get past with FFXIV: ARR.
So you want a game like FFXI, a game you enjoyed it looks like, yet don't want a 'been here done that' feeling.
I don't think you know what you want.
Every post you've made has been inaccurate or self conflicting.
I have only made a couple posts about this game (Maybe 3, you may be bored enough to go through my post history but I am not) and all of them are based on my actual experience in the beta. I know exactly what I want, and exactly what I don't want. The biggest deal-breaker for me continues to be the fact that you don't NEED other people in FFXIV: ARR. It can be played like a single-player RPG. I have no interest in games that are currently like this. We already have a handful of good MMORPGs that do this, I don't need another that only changes the skin to Final Fantasy. End-game may change this drastically but I am not certain about what end-game will or won't be, and neither are you so don't pretend to be.
Also, I have no problems with "been there done that" if it was based on a game that I loved. I would love to have that feeling based on Everquest (The original), or even Final Fantasy XI. This game however, has its roots planted in World of Warcraft, not Everquest or its predecessor. That feeling is then a negative, not a positive. I know your next line of defense will be that I am jaded or bitter. I am neither of these things. I simply don't care for this game, at all.
Like others have already said.. the issue seems to be that you think you're playing a final product as opposed to a beta. You have to understand that in these betas, there are a lot of folks trying to burn through as much of the game as possible due to the short amount of time it's available.
It honestly sounds like most of the issues you have are with MMO's in general lol
I have only made a couple posts about this game (Maybe 3, you may be bored enough to go through my post history but I am not) and all of them are based on my actual experience in the beta. I know exactly what I want, and exactly what I don't want. The biggest deal-breaker for me continues to be the fact that you don't NEED other people in FFXIV: ARR. It can be played like a single-player RPG. I have no interest in games that are currently like this. We already have a handful of good MMORPGs that do this, I don't need another that only changes the skin to Final Fantasy. End-game may change this drastically but I am not certain about what end-game will or won't be, and neither are you so don't pretend to be.
Hmm u seems didnt play more than first lvls, is Imposible to level up not grouping for Dungeons, i mean, 1 dungeon run, give you aprox the same exp than 30 or 40 quests. So if you continue to play solo, is because u like to play solo. We have dungeons for grouping for this levels:
Sastasha Seagrot (Level 15 to 17)
Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Level 16 to 18)
Copperbell Mines (Level 17 to 19)
Halatali (Level 20 to 22)
Thousand Maws of Toto-rak (Level 23 to 25)
Haukke Manor (Level 29 to 31)
Brayflox's Longstop (Level 32 to 34)
What u are asking is to FORCE people to play grouping because you like group leveling (as me) but i prefer to allow every one to level up the way they want, i will continue leveling in group doing dungeons.
Oh wait and this too for Group content leveling:
Guildhests: Level 30 and below
Guildleves Dificult +4
PvP (Phase 4)
Fates (Form a party and hunt Fates)
So you point is totally false, stop spreading your hate because you dont like that people can leveling up soloing. The fact is that you like to level up in group and u are angry at people who can solo because you have less people to group with you, a totally self-centered egoist opinion.
The core of the actual gameplay is questing and killing mobs which is nothing special in ARR, but it never really promised to innovate much in these areas.
What ARR does well is create a visually impressive world with good music and decent writing that has the Final Fantasy feel.
It appeals to the players who enjoy traditional MMOs who simply enjoy moving through the world and building a character. They can accept the questing and combat as a means to an end, not the primary reason to play.
The success will probably be on the level of SWTOR, which means around 200-300k subs after the first few months. A decent enough audience, but it will probably have trouble retaining people who blow through the 1-50 content.
The success will probably be on the level of SWTOR, which means around 200-300k subs after the first few months. A decent enough audience, but it will probably have trouble retaining people who blow through the 1-50 content.
You sure? I mean, SE has both the PS3 audience and the Japanese audience by their side. I'd estimate at least two times more subs for that reason alone.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I agree with op posters top statement "While the game is incredibly polished and pristine in it's presentation, the depth of the game gave me cause for concern." that summed it up. It kind of feels like old EQ, but without the strengths. It's got some vey fine graphics, but the actual gameplay, well it feels strongly of the dumbed-down console beginnings (imo). A few years ago might have done well, but much too late in MMO time for this, there are games with much more interesting game play out now, and a number of things on the near horizon.
The success will probably be on the level of SWTOR, which means around 200-300k subs after the first few months. A decent enough audience, but it will probably have trouble retaining people who blow through the 1-50 content.
You sure? I mean, SE has both the PS3 audience and the Japanese audience by their side. I'd estimate at least two times more subs for that reason alone.
I think that is realistic 2-3+ months out in NA. ARR is releasing in an MMO lull which is to its advantage and will have a loyal following but there isn't enough innovation here to branch out to a broader audience. I haven't really seen any evidence that this will perform better than SWTOR beyond the addition of console sales which I doubt will many of which will become long term subs.
SWTOR and Rift which are nearly identical to ARR in terms of gameplay are also free-to-play.
The real question is how well ARR will compete with Wildstar, ArcheAge and ESO all of which bring a lot of innovation to the main areas that ARR lacks: combat and questing.
I think that is realistic 2-3+ months out in NA. ARR is releasing in an MMO lull which is to its advantage and will have a loyal following but there isn't enough innovation here to branch out to a broader audience. I haven't really seen any evidence that this will perform better than SWTOR beyond the addition of console sales which I doubt will many of which will become long term subs.
SWTOR and Rift which are nearly identical to ARR in terms of gameplay are also free-to-play.
The real question is how well ARR will compete with Wildstar, ArcheAge and ESO all of which bring a lot of innovation to the main areas that ARR lacks: combat and questing.
Wait, ArcheAge is innovating combat and questing?
When did this happen?
From what we've seen of ESO - it's going to be the one to beat for sure, but the questing content doesn't appear to be any different than a game like TOR or like questing was in Skyrim. The "action" combat isn't going to be for everyone - lots of people hated the combat in Skyrim - and what I've seen of ESO looks like a slower/sloppier version of Skyrim combat.
Wildstar is certainly innovating in the 4 path approach on paper at least, but thus far all we've seen suggests that each path is going to play out exactly like every MMO that came before it - and they are DIRECTLY copying the look, pacing, and feel of WoW - which has yet to be a successful tactic. Telegraphed moves are a gimmick. Games based on a gimmick have NEVER worked out well in the long run.
Wildstar is looking very safe in the innovation department - looks like each path will just offer different types of the same old quests.
Is ARR innovative and different? Not so much - but don't sleep on the FF IP and the power of marketing and how successful the game could be.
FFXI was a mega-hit for SE. Millions of accounts at its peak.
The FF name alone sells millions of boxes. Even with all the bad press, millions of copies of FFXIII-2 were sold, enough they're making a 3rd installment!
You know what other game wasn't all to innovative? WoW.
You know what retains players and builds a brand and is successful over the long run?
Fundamentals. The fundamental gameplay systems, how well they work together and how polished and complete the initial vision for the game is.
That is what made WoW a success, what made AoC and WAR and Rift and TOR and countless others falter and fail, and the fundamentals of gameplay is what has grown and expanded the success of EvE, EQ1, FFXI, the Lineage series, and the rest of the true MMO success stories.
Does FFXIV have the fundamentals down on their 2nd attempt?
SWTOR had a huge exodus because of the issues in the game, not because it was "insert buzzword arguments like "themepark"'
You leveled up your first class for the story, maybe even a couple. Then you tried to go do endgame only to find it was RIDDLED with issues, and the content that was there was extremely limited. They banked on people leveling ALTs for months, maybe even years on end. But most people in an MMO want to do things as the class(es) they enjoy most, and there just wasn't enough for them to do so they quit and went to other games.
Anyone who disagrees with that are you going to sit here and tell me that SWTOR was not plagued with launch issues, and that WAS NOT the reason given by people who quit early on? The game sold boxes to millions of people who knew what kind of product they were getting, Bioware just didn't deliver as an MMO developer. Many don't, that's why they fail and have people leaving in droves once they play through the limited content available.
To justify a subscription you have to give people content to continually enjoy, this seems to be lost on a lot of studios today and that is why we see most of them simply giving up and opting instead to sell B2P games or just offer a free "game" where they can sell people virtual junk instead of trying to retain subscribers through compelling and continuous entertainment.
I'm amazed, Cym, that you didn't see the depth and complexity offered by the jobs system and the fact that you need all those quests to effectively level multiple jobs. It seems to be glossed over a couple times by other posters but, imo, this is one of the biggest strengths of the game; why reroll when you can just level up every job and tailor ONE character to fit the role you're needing/wanting?
Is this new and/or revolutionary? Mostly, yes.
There are other games that offer a portion of this but don't give you anywhere near the flexibility or options of ARR. Simplifying it so you don't have to clutter up your inventory with multiple gear sets, being able to use cross-class skills, even just the ability to not have to have your main, main alt, secondary alt, tertiary alt, etc..
Yes, there are a lot of quests and a lot of them are simplistic, quick, and clumped. If you just burn through all of them you also are shooting yourself in the foot when you level up a new job. So it adds another little meta-game to balance out what you need now vs what you'll need later.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
SWTOR had a huge exodus because of the issues in the game, not because it was "insert buzzword arguments like "themepark"'
You leveled up your first class for the story, maybe even a couple. Then you tried to go do endgame only to find it was RIDDLED with issues, and the content that was there was extremely limited. They banked on people leveling ALTs for months, maybe even years on end. But most people in an MMO want to do things as the class(es) they enjoy most, and there just wasn't enough for them to do so they quit and went to other games.
Anyone who disagrees with that are you going to sit here and tell me that SWTOR was not plagued with launch issues, and that WAS NOT the reason given by people who quit early on? The game sold boxes to millions of people who knew what kind of product they were getting, Bioware just didn't deliver as an MMO developer. Many don't, that's why they fail and have people leaving in droves once they play through the limited content available.
To justify a subscription you have to give people content to continually enjoy, this seems to be lost on a lot of studios today and that is why we see most of them simply giving up and opting instead to sell B2P games or just offer a free "game" where they can sell people virtual junk instead of trying to retain subscribers through compelling and continuous entertainment.
You're missing one HUGE flaw in the game that caused a bigger issue. It's NOT AN MMO. It's a single player RPG that has to be always connected to the internet. The game is linear that rivals even most offline single player games.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
There are other games that offer a portion of this but don't give you anywhere near the flexibility or options of ARR. Simplifying it so you don't have to clutter up your inventory with multiple gear sets, being able to use cross-class skills, even just the ability to not have to have your main, main alt, secondary alt, tertiary alt, etc..
I really, really like the whole 12.99 for one character per server account, 14.99 for multiple idea.
SWTOR had a huge exodus because of the issues in the game, not because it was "insert buzzword arguments like "themepark"'
You leveled up your first class for the story, maybe even a couple. Then you tried to go do endgame only to find it was RIDDLED with issues, and the content that was there was extremely limited. They banked on people leveling ALTs for months, maybe even years on end. But most people in an MMO want to do things as the class(es) they enjoy most, and there just wasn't enough for them to do so they quit and went to other games.
Anyone who disagrees with that are you going to sit here and tell me that SWTOR was not plagued with launch issues, and that WAS NOT the reason given by people who quit early on? The game sold boxes to millions of people who knew what kind of product they were getting, Bioware just didn't deliver as an MMO developer. Many don't, that's why they fail and have people leaving in droves once they play through the limited content available.
To justify a subscription you have to give people content to continually enjoy, this seems to be lost on a lot of studios today and that is why we see most of them simply giving up and opting instead to sell B2P games or just offer a free "game" where they can sell people virtual junk instead of trying to retain subscribers through compelling and continuous entertainment.
You're missing one HUGE flaw in the game that caused a bigger issue. It's NOT AN MMO. It's a single player RPG that has to be always connected to the internet. The game is linear that rivals even most offline single player games.
It did have group content and even raids, they just weren't implemented very well. Being linear aside, that doesn't matter it was still an MMO because it had a persistant world in which you could play with thousands of other people. It may have felt that way to you and that is a valid opinion, but the fact is that it did have group elements and them not being very good (though there wasn't anything for people to do solo either other than level another alt character abandoning all their progression and thus the investment needed to warrant a subscription) is what led to people leaving the game.
Is ARR innovative and different? Not so much - but don't sleep on the FF IP and the power of marketing and how successful the game could be.
FFXI was a mega-hit for SE. Millions of accounts at its peak.
The FF name alone sells millions of boxes. Even with all the bad press, millions of copies of FFXIII-2 were sold, enough they're making a 3rd installment!
You know what other game wasn't all to innovative? WoW.
You know what retains players and builds a brand and is successful over the long run?
Fundamentals. The fundamental gameplay systems, how well they work together and how polished and complete the initial vision for the game is.
That is what made WoW a success, what made AoC and WAR and Rift and TOR and countless others falter and fail, and the fundamentals of gameplay is what has grown and expanded the success of EvE, EQ1, FFXI, the Lineage series, and the rest of the true MMO success stories.
Does FFXIV have the fundamentals down on their 2nd attempt?
We shall see...
I am not doubting ARR will sell a lot of boxes, although the game flopped once and a lot of people are getting it for free. I don't really consider box sales to be a good indicator of how good an MMO is.
WoW did innovate by creating the modern quest grind and allowing people to progress much faster by going from hub to hub. This concept did not really exist in EQ or DAOC which did not have many quests and a lot of the time required groups to simply farm mob camps for hours in order to level.
I agree in regards to fundamentals and think they are good enough to retain a playerbase, but I cannot see it performing much better than any of the other recent theme park games after the first 3 months precisely because it has very little innovation besides allowing people to level up multiple classes on 1 character which will probably become tiresome after 2 or 3 times.
Comments
It just continues to baffle me how being critical is now considered synonymous with being jaded. They aren't the same in the slightest. Someone whose jaded wouldn't give enough of a damn to argue their perspective, because apathy and a lack of enthusiasm constitute being jaded. I'd just go "Eh, another WoW clone" and be done with it. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm voicing concerns, and I just find it both appalling and bewildering that concern is belittled. It's got to be a generational thing.
BACK IN MY DAY, you could like something and still disagree with some of the ideas/execution and voice that dissent. Nowadays, it's "Do you like it, or do you hate it?".
*waves cane angrily from porch*
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I didn't call you jaded because you had criticism for the game, I called you jaded because your criticism sounded like that of a jaded person. "I've been here and done all this before..."
What can I say about that which I did not in my original reply. People don't all think that way, and it is literally the textbook definition of being jaded.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Meh, after reading the thread, it does seem like many people are adequately addressing the OP's concerns. Again, haven't played it yet myself, still looking forward to doing so.
You are in the vast minority, look around you at the forums, beta and not.
The game is amazingly better than it was.
Did you look at Square Enix this year at E3? Dying?
You must be joking.
I think Murugan honestly covered everything.
What concern did you have that you want addressed?
I agree with the op. He is dead-on.
Personally I don't think the game is a failure, but I don't think it has a lot of long term appeal for the general masses.
Did he not say that?=P That people are addressing stuff?
As for myself I only had time to play for 2 hours, but so far I was loving the journey.
So you want a game like FFXI, a game you enjoyed it looks like, yet don't want a 'been here done that' feeling.
I don't think you know what you want.
Every post you've made has been inaccurate or self conflicting.
I like how the example quest which has been defined as horrid is a TUTORIAL QUEST to teach people how to interact with their environment. It's a /tutorial quest/. Those are not ground breaking, those are quests to teach you how to go through the game. The entire initial city quests are all that, go kill this to learn how to fight, go pick this up for me, etc. Why does /anyone/ expect quests to somehow magically be different?
What can quests offer in a fixed game world? You can go get something, or you can kill something. Developers can try to hide that by either making you have to protect something (Still just killing things), or you have to craft it (still just getting something), or combine items or whatever. It's a limit of the MEDIUM not bad design or anything like that.
Lets see, how exactly are we going to affect the game world? Build a house? Ok. Thirty seven thousand other people on your server all need to build a house too. Where did the wilderness go?! Affect the game world? Sure ok, but then what happens to people who are on the same quest and what they need to do is already done? They just sit around with their thumb up their rear?
The whole concept of the 'sandbox' doesn't apply to a fixed world, the game just isn't big enough for that. It's not multiple systems of open space where you can throw down towers and bases and try and 'take control' with you and three thousand of your friends charging rent or whatever. Even SWG ended up getting crowded all to heck with player houses all over and harvesting equipment set up all over... yes, such a wild place, we live next door to a rancor pit cuz that's the only place left on the planet...
Honestly no, the game isn't ground breaking, what it /is/ however, is a very well done mmo with multiple options and a variety of game play options. As for why you'd need more gear... I guess in getting two classes to 30 the OP never noticed that gear has class restrictions. My marauder's gear I can't use on my lancer or my pugilist even though they're melee... so if I want to level those jobs, I /need new gear/. This is not rocket science. Also, crafting can make HQ gear, that alone is better than generic quest rewards so not counting anything else that is worth it right there.
I have only made a couple posts about this game (Maybe 3, you may be bored enough to go through my post history but I am not) and all of them are based on my actual experience in the beta. I know exactly what I want, and exactly what I don't want. The biggest deal-breaker for me continues to be the fact that you don't NEED other people in FFXIV: ARR. It can be played like a single-player RPG. I have no interest in games that are currently like this. We already have a handful of good MMORPGs that do this, I don't need another that only changes the skin to Final Fantasy. End-game may change this drastically but I am not certain about what end-game will or won't be, and neither are you so don't pretend to be.
Also, I have no problems with "been there done that" if it was based on a game that I loved. I would love to have that feeling based on Everquest (The original), or even Final Fantasy XI. This game however, has its roots planted in World of Warcraft, not Everquest or its predecessor. That feeling is then a negative, not a positive. I know your next line of defense will be that I am jaded or bitter. I am neither of these things. I simply don't care for this game, at all.
Like others have already said.. the issue seems to be that you think you're playing a final product as opposed to a beta. You have to understand that in these betas, there are a lot of folks trying to burn through as much of the game as possible due to the short amount of time it's available.
It honestly sounds like most of the issues you have are with MMO's in general lol
Hmm u seems didnt play more than first lvls, is Imposible to level up not grouping for Dungeons, i mean, 1 dungeon run, give you aprox the same exp than 30 or 40 quests. So if you continue to play solo, is because u like to play solo. We have dungeons for grouping for this levels:
I agree with the OP in a lot of ways.
The core of the actual gameplay is questing and killing mobs which is nothing special in ARR, but it never really promised to innovate much in these areas.
What ARR does well is create a visually impressive world with good music and decent writing that has the Final Fantasy feel.
It appeals to the players who enjoy traditional MMOs who simply enjoy moving through the world and building a character. They can accept the questing and combat as a means to an end, not the primary reason to play.
The success will probably be on the level of SWTOR, which means around 200-300k subs after the first few months. A decent enough audience, but it will probably have trouble retaining people who blow through the 1-50 content.
You sure? I mean, SE has both the PS3 audience and the Japanese audience by their side. I'd estimate at least two times more subs for that reason alone.
I agree with op posters top statement "While the game is incredibly polished and pristine in it's presentation, the depth of the game gave me cause for concern."
that summed it up. It kind of feels like old EQ, but without the strengths. It's got some vey fine graphics, but the actual gameplay, well it feels strongly of the dumbed-down console beginnings (imo). A few years ago might have done well, but much too late in MMO time for this, there are games with much more interesting game play out now, and a number of things on the near horizon.
I think that is realistic 2-3+ months out in NA. ARR is releasing in an MMO lull which is to its advantage and will have a loyal following but there isn't enough innovation here to branch out to a broader audience. I haven't really seen any evidence that this will perform better than SWTOR beyond the addition of console sales which I doubt will many of which will become long term subs.
SWTOR and Rift which are nearly identical to ARR in terms of gameplay are also free-to-play.
The real question is how well ARR will compete with Wildstar, ArcheAge and ESO all of which bring a lot of innovation to the main areas that ARR lacks: combat and questing.
Wait, ArcheAge is innovating combat and questing?
When did this happen?
From what we've seen of ESO - it's going to be the one to beat for sure, but the questing content doesn't appear to be any different than a game like TOR or like questing was in Skyrim. The "action" combat isn't going to be for everyone - lots of people hated the combat in Skyrim - and what I've seen of ESO looks like a slower/sloppier version of Skyrim combat.
Wildstar is certainly innovating in the 4 path approach on paper at least, but thus far all we've seen suggests that each path is going to play out exactly like every MMO that came before it - and they are DIRECTLY copying the look, pacing, and feel of WoW - which has yet to be a successful tactic. Telegraphed moves are a gimmick. Games based on a gimmick have NEVER worked out well in the long run.
Wildstar is looking very safe in the innovation department - looks like each path will just offer different types of the same old quests.
Is ARR innovative and different? Not so much - but don't sleep on the FF IP and the power of marketing and how successful the game could be.
FFXI was a mega-hit for SE. Millions of accounts at its peak.
The FF name alone sells millions of boxes. Even with all the bad press, millions of copies of FFXIII-2 were sold, enough they're making a 3rd installment!
You know what other game wasn't all to innovative? WoW.
You know what retains players and builds a brand and is successful over the long run?
Fundamentals. The fundamental gameplay systems, how well they work together and how polished and complete the initial vision for the game is.
That is what made WoW a success, what made AoC and WAR and Rift and TOR and countless others falter and fail, and the fundamentals of gameplay is what has grown and expanded the success of EvE, EQ1, FFXI, the Lineage series, and the rest of the true MMO success stories.
Does FFXIV have the fundamentals down on their 2nd attempt?
We shall see...
SWTOR had a huge exodus because of the issues in the game, not because it was "insert buzzword arguments like "themepark"'
You leveled up your first class for the story, maybe even a couple. Then you tried to go do endgame only to find it was RIDDLED with issues, and the content that was there was extremely limited. They banked on people leveling ALTs for months, maybe even years on end. But most people in an MMO want to do things as the class(es) they enjoy most, and there just wasn't enough for them to do so they quit and went to other games.
Anyone who disagrees with that are you going to sit here and tell me that SWTOR was not plagued with launch issues, and that WAS NOT the reason given by people who quit early on? The game sold boxes to millions of people who knew what kind of product they were getting, Bioware just didn't deliver as an MMO developer. Many don't, that's why they fail and have people leaving in droves once they play through the limited content available.
To justify a subscription you have to give people content to continually enjoy, this seems to be lost on a lot of studios today and that is why we see most of them simply giving up and opting instead to sell B2P games or just offer a free "game" where they can sell people virtual junk instead of trying to retain subscribers through compelling and continuous entertainment.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
I'm amazed, Cym, that you didn't see the depth and complexity offered by the jobs system and the fact that you need all those quests to effectively level multiple jobs. It seems to be glossed over a couple times by other posters but, imo, this is one of the biggest strengths of the game; why reroll when you can just level up every job and tailor ONE character to fit the role you're needing/wanting?
Is this new and/or revolutionary? Mostly, yes.
There are other games that offer a portion of this but don't give you anywhere near the flexibility or options of ARR. Simplifying it so you don't have to clutter up your inventory with multiple gear sets, being able to use cross-class skills, even just the ability to not have to have your main, main alt, secondary alt, tertiary alt, etc..
Yes, there are a lot of quests and a lot of them are simplistic, quick, and clumped. If you just burn through all of them you also are shooting yourself in the foot when you level up a new job. So it adds another little meta-game to balance out what you need now vs what you'll need later.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
You're missing one HUGE flaw in the game that caused a bigger issue. It's NOT AN MMO. It's a single player RPG that has to be always connected to the internet. The game is linear that rivals even most offline single player games.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
I really, really like the whole 12.99 for one character per server account, 14.99 for multiple idea.
Value! Savings!
It did have group content and even raids, they just weren't implemented very well. Being linear aside, that doesn't matter it was still an MMO because it had a persistant world in which you could play with thousands of other people. It may have felt that way to you and that is a valid opinion, but the fact is that it did have group elements and them not being very good (though there wasn't anything for people to do solo either other than level another alt character abandoning all their progression and thus the investment needed to warrant a subscription) is what led to people leaving the game.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
I am not doubting ARR will sell a lot of boxes, although the game flopped once and a lot of people are getting it for free. I don't really consider box sales to be a good indicator of how good an MMO is.
WoW did innovate by creating the modern quest grind and allowing people to progress much faster by going from hub to hub. This concept did not really exist in EQ or DAOC which did not have many quests and a lot of the time required groups to simply farm mob camps for hours in order to level.
I agree in regards to fundamentals and think they are good enough to retain a playerbase, but I cannot see it performing much better than any of the other recent theme park games after the first 3 months precisely because it has very little innovation besides allowing people to level up multiple classes on 1 character which will probably become tiresome after 2 or 3 times.