I've noticed that all the people replying in favor of meters do so because "it's a competition" or "to better themselves" or "to get that extra 5%".
This is a game. The turning of the game into a competition is ruining MY game. There was a funny comic at the front that said it the best. I want to have fun. I want to relax. Yea I want to work to kill something but I also don't want to have to devote my life to gameplay for me to be involved and have fun.
I'm sorry, I'm a grown up. I don't get a summer vacation and sleeping until 10 every day so I can Raid with my buddies until 4-5 in the morning.
Meters, as previously stated so many times, are a slippery slope that ruin games. They establish a number that is use SPECIFICALLY to group people into wanted/not wanted categories. The IDEA of them is awesome, but the reality of the situation is people aren't grown up enough/mature enough to warrant them. Just like GS. I liked the idea of Gear Score. It gave me a rough idea of what I wanted/needed and where I should take my characters as far as progression went. Then it became a "you can't go unless your GS is xxxxx" nevermind that my GS was xxxxx-2. Or that in order to get BETTER gear you had to participate in Raids.
TLDR: Meters aren't bad, people are bad. Until you fix people, you shouldn't have meters.
Mods create community, a modding community, something that WoW has, something that other games like Skyrim have, it's something that Yoshi wants for his game.
Mods aren't bad, people aren't all bad, until you have a negative outlook and only expect the worst out of them.
I've noticed that all the people replying in favor of meters do so because "it's a competition" or "to better themselves" or "to get that extra 5%".
This is a game. The turning of the game into a competition is ruining MY game. There was a funny comic at the front that said it the best. I want to have fun. I want to relax. Yea I want to work to kill something but I also don't want to have to devote my life to gameplay for me to be involved and have fun.
I'm sorry, I'm a grown up. I don't get a summer vacation and sleeping until 10 every day so I can Raid with my buddies until 4-5 in the morning.
Meters, as previously stated so many times, are a slippery slope that ruin games. They establish a number that is use SPECIFICALLY to group people into wanted/not wanted categories. The IDEA of them is awesome, but the reality of the situation is people aren't grown up enough/mature enough to warrant them. Just like GS. I liked the idea of Gear Score. It gave me a rough idea of what I wanted/needed and where I should take my characters as far as progression went. Then it became a "you can't go unless your GS is xxxxx" nevermind that my GS was xxxxx-2. Or that in order to get BETTER gear you had to participate in Raids.
TLDR: Meters aren't bad, people are bad. Until you fix people, you shouldn't have meters.
...and you don't have to play it competitively, or with people who are playing it competitively. If you want to piss around, then go piss around and have fun. I do that too sometimes. I'm not forcing you to use a DPS meter, you shouldn't be trying to prevent me from using one.
You guys act like if you're doing 1,000 dps instead of 1,100 dps that you'll get kicked from groups. If that is the case, "forget" them, who would want to group with people like that anyway? Find a "casual" guild if you're worried about idiots in PUGs.
Thanks for posting this, makes me really happy there will be Mods. To me that's what really separated WoW from other MMOs. I love having Mods for games AND DPS meters. I know the sensitive types hate this, but most of us like it, so deal with it. I'm also sick of the said "grown ups" stating they have a life and a job and bills in such that just want to enjoy the game. I work full time go to school full time for engineering, and work out. Oh and I have a girl friend oh my! Yet still I make time for MMOs and I like DPS meters shocking isn't it...... Jesus lay off this "I have a life crap" it's old.
Let me first say that I'm very torn on damage meters if not mods in general. I agree with much your op about damage meters fostering it even outright encouraging childish "nana nana booboo" typed behavior that is not consistent with the spirit of MMOs, but let me offer a devils advocate argument here.
You mention that you enjoy running and time yourself to track your progress. Imagine trying to do it without a stopwatch. Just look at the sun instead. Ok you can get a general idea of your time and progress but as someone that has trained in running myself I agree that trimming even a minute off of you best time is an amazing feeling. This level of detail simply cannot be measured with a sundial.
Like your stopwatch, a DPS meter is simply a tool. Do you discard that tool because of a few bad eggs or is there a better solution?
Originally posted by Carnicide Thanks for posting this, makes me really happy there will be Mods. To me that's what really separated WoW from other MMOs. I love having Mods for games AND DPS meters. I know the sensitive types hate this, but most of us like it, so deal with it. I'm also sick of the said "grown ups" stating they have a life and a job and bills in such that just want to enjoy the game. I work full time go to school full time for engineering, and work out. Oh and I have a girl friend oh my! Yet still I make time for MMOs and I like DPS meters shocking isn't it...... Jesus lay off this "I have a life crap" it's old.
While a mite bit harshly worded I more or less agree with you.
Q: What exactly do you have in mind for community-generated add-ons? Also, how much game data will we be able to utilize?
A: The type of add-on I have in mind are those of the UI persuasion. For example, we can have players customize the UI with a skin of their choice, have enmity displayed graphical, and add windows to view useful information so players will be able to separate information that is otherwise displayed in one large, single window. Add-ons will then become active once they are downloaded and placed in the custom folder. As for the PS3 version, we'll make sure it doesn't trail behind the PC version.
I wonder if everyone caught that there was a definitive answer to the OP's question and it was posted by Striderbob.
There will be Mods.
And FFXI Players, as much as you'd like to convince everyone that FFXI mobs / raids were so much harder than WoW raids... A lot of us (myself included) have done both. You forget who you guys are talking to, this is the haven of super nerds.
FFXI raiding is not some mythical thing, and its not some how so much harder than every other end game raiding guild. I say this as someone who did Sea as a White Mage and as a Nin tank. As someone who raided in WoW from Karazhan until now as all three specs. They aren't that different mechanically. So lets stop with all the posturing please. Thanks.
You didn't actually just compare threat management and damge/recovery ratio in WoW to FFXI did you ? FFXI players actually can afford to be a bit high handed in that regard compared to WoW after BC.
While I will say that raiding in either of the games (or that in almost every MMO) isn't that distinctly different. The OP wasn't talking about raiding. The OP was talking about the quality of player interactions with such mods in regular use (think regular grouping and not raids).
A large number of the posts in this thread have unwittingly supported his case.
Part of the fun in MMOs is to clear content as efficiently as possible thus some way to measure performance is needed.
People who underperform shouldn`t expect to be carried by the rest. This game will have a x-server dungeon finder so there will always be non-elitist people to play with.
Let me first say that I'm very torn on damage meters if not mods in general. I agree with much your op about damage meters fostering it even outright encouraging childish "nana nana booboo" typed behavior that is not consistent with the spirit of MMOs, but let me offer a devils advocate argument here.
You mention that you enjoy running and time yourself to track your progress. Imagine trying to do it without a stopwatch. Just look at the sun instead. Ok you can get a general idea of your time and progress but as someone that has trained in running myself I agree that trimming even a minute off of you best time is an amazing feeling. This level of detail simply cannot be measured with a sundial.
Like your stopwatch, a DPS meter is simply a tool. Do you discard that tool because of a few bad eggs or is there a better solution?
I agree, you shouldnt remove a tool just because "bad eggs" will abuse it or use them to shit on others enjoyment. However, like many tools we have that can also be used by "bad eggs" there are limits and prohibitions to them. Name a tool that can be abused and you can probably find some laws and prohibitions against its misuse.
A hammer for example, great tool, not allowed to bash someone over the head with it. Giving people concussions is detrimental to the community, and if you do, youre removed from the community for at least a few years. Same applies to these "DPS meters." They can help but can also be used in a way thats detrimental to the community and they should do what they can to prevent such misuse in the most efficient way possible. Since this is a video game there are MANY things that SE can do to limit such misuse, including making the meters personal, making them guild only shareable, or disable them for Duty Finder PuGs.
Only people who would ever find a problem under those limits are those very self-absorbed jerks we're talking about here that feel they have the right to judge and bully random people on the internet based on their very subjective opinions on how or what others should be doing. Never once has a guild ive been in needed a DPS meter to beat anything or had some guild leader cornering players about their performance last night after breaking down every ability used.
And to those who say "youre bad and lazy if you dont like DPS meters" ... right! IM the bad one because I dont depend on some third party tool to play the game correctly. IM the lazy one because id much rather take the extra challenge of compensating for someone elses shortcomings (coming out a better player in the end) over being a whiny little bi...... drama queen. Your assumption that someone against a DPS meter "must be bad" just shows how pathetically dependent youve become of useless tools that do nothing but display a fraction of the information which makes a good player.
I really hope DPS meters do not find their way in to this game, and hopefully mods are off the table entirely. A part of my excitement just died a little bit because I realized there are going to be people clamoring for meters so they can feel superior to others. I don't want that in the community of this game and I hope square does not give in to the people who try to demand it on their forums.
The thought of chat filling up with things like "post deeps bro" or " what class brings the most dps" makes my excitement die a little. I can remember great times in Yuhtunga Jungle way back in the day of camping out with a good group and exping off of mobs. No one cared about dps. The thrill was getting that awesome group that clicked.
Final Fantasy is about the story, the journey, and exploration. Final Fantasy XI captured that excellently and we were able to share it others. It wasn't about dividing and competing against people. I hope this mentality carries over into the ARR. I am concerned that it is going to attract a crowd that it is not aimed for.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with those types of games or gamers; It just doesn't fit the FF world. I am worried people will try to force it in, and Square will listen.
Maybe I just need to get in a good, mature linkshell with people from FFXI.
I really really disagree with this..... DPS meters for me at least help improve myself. I could care less how much I'm beating someone. I like to do the best at what I'm doing. So what if I'm a number cruncher, why should this effect you? Maybe just don't download it? You do have options you realize.
He doesn't have much of an option when it comes to the others that download it, obsess over their DPS and start wiping groups because they're too concerned about their numbers... That's the real issue with DPS meters; they cause people to start thinking that DPS is the most important thing, and maybe in WoW it was considering tanks never lost threat, but in this game if any DPS pumps out 100% of their potential they will pull threat and get killed. They simply serve no purpose in this game and will encourage bad play.
That all depends on the player. Everyone should understand your dps = 0 when you're dead. So pulling aggro, or dying should be the number one thing you try not to do. So in the end it's up to the player dps meter or not isn't going to fix that.
DPS meters actively encourage players to take stupid risks in order to better their DPS score. Yes it depends on the player but DPS meters essentially discourage a team focus and make everything about personal gain. It also causes tunnel vision on the 'rotation' making players blind to what's going on around them.
It just makes it TOO tempting for a lot of players to push their luck that bit further to get a higher score... usually at the cost of them getting killed or often wiping the group.
If you are afraid of dps meters ruining a game I think you need to find a new group of people to play the game with.... If you like to afk a lot or slack off then those meters are your enemy. If you like to put everyone at risk to be on the top of the meter..... Then you're an idiot. Meters are a decent guide to see what kinda real contribution you're making, and if you need improvement. Now when they start adding in things that monitor your skill rotation, % of said skills used, and all those other variables..... That's when you should be alarmed.
DPS meters actively encourage players to take stupid risks in order to better their DPS score. Yes it depends on the player but DPS meters essentially discourage a team focus and make everything about personal gain. It also causes tunnel vision on the 'rotation' making players blind to what's going on around them.
It just makes it TOO tempting for a lot of players to push their luck that bit further to get a higher score... usually at the cost of them getting killed or often wiping the group.
And those idiots would be idiots somehow else without the DPS meters.
Idiots are idiots, bad people are bad, elitists are elitists, et cetera no matter whether there are DPS meters in the game or not.
DPS meters actively encourage players to take stupid risks in order to better their DPS score. Yes it depends on the player but DPS meters essentially discourage a team focus and make everything about personal gain. It also causes tunnel vision on the 'rotation' making players blind to what's going on around them.
It just makes it TOO tempting for a lot of players to push their luck that bit further to get a higher score... usually at the cost of them getting killed or often wiping the group.
And those idiots would be idiots somehow else without the DPS meters.
Idiots are idiots, bad people are bad, elitists are elitists, et cetera no matter whether there are DPS meters in the game or not.
And that's a reason to just sit back and do nothing? Just let them carry on?
If someone had a stick and kept hitting you on the head with it would you not take the stick away? Sure they could go find something else to annoy you with but at least that would be one less thing... By your argument you'd just sit there and let them keep bashing you over the head...
Q: What exactly do you have in mind for community-generated add-ons? Also, how much game data will we be able to utilize?
A: The type of add-on I have in mind are those of the UI persuasion. For example, we can have players customize the UI with a skin of their choice, have enmity displayed graphical, and add windows to view useful information so players will be able to separate information that is otherwise displayed in one large, single window. Add-ons will then become active once they are downloaded and placed in the custom folder. As for the PS3 version, we'll make sure it doesn't trail behind the PC version.
I wonder if everyone caught that there was a definitive answer to the OP's question and it was posted by Striderbob.
There will be Mods.
And FFXI Players, as much as you'd like to convince everyone that FFXI mobs / raids were so much harder than WoW raids... A lot of us (myself included) have done both. You forget who you guys are talking to, this is the haven of super nerds.
FFXI raiding is not some mythical thing, and its not some how so much harder than every other end game raiding guild. I say this as someone who did Sea as a White Mage and as a Nin tank. As someone who raided in WoW from Karazhan until now as all three specs. They aren't that different mechanically. So lets stop with all the posturing please. Thanks.
DPS meters actively encourage players to take stupid risks in order to better their DPS score. Yes it depends on the player but DPS meters essentially discourage a team focus and make everything about personal gain. It also causes tunnel vision on the 'rotation' making players blind to what's going on around them.
It just makes it TOO tempting for a lot of players to push their luck that bit further to get a higher score... usually at the cost of them getting killed or often wiping the group.
And those idiots would be idiots somehow else without the DPS meters.
Idiots are idiots, bad people are bad, elitists are elitists, et cetera no matter whether there are DPS meters in the game or not.
And that's a reason to just sit back and do nothing? Just let them carry on?
If someone had a stick and kept hitting you on the head with it would you not take the stick away? Sure they could go find something else to annoy you with but at least that would be one less thing... By your argument you'd just sit there and let them keep bashing you over the head...
No, I'd remove myself from his presence. That is the intelligent thing to do. Not ban everybody from being able to pick up sticks like you're doing in this metaphor.
DPS meters should have their place, but a very limited one. The limitations should be only to see where an individual could find out information to help improve him or herself.
For me games should be about having fun 1st and foremost, not number-crunching or "power-gaming". If your being told that you have to parse then...who's really controlling your play-style or account? a guild master or the guild itself not you. What always happens next is to tell you have to have this equipment or other things, even though you might be doing just fine. A raid should be about overcoming obstacles together and getting the gear need to everyone to succeed.
DPS meters for competition are horrendous to say the least. It's a cry for attention IMO. While others who are good, but don't come out on top are ridiculed, mocked, looked down on (told to change things) without the slightest inclination that the person may have a handicap or connection issues. friendly completion is okay, but it always ends up putting people down. I've seen this happen a lot unfortunately.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I agree, simple answer I would say is meter that only measure yourself and are not link able. Allows you to measure your performance and gives you metrics that you can compare offline (I.e not in game)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Re why meters are bad, you only need to see above, apparently if you are top of Meters or bottom of Meters you are [insert insult] which is ofc exactly same attitude you get in game all the time when you get to see other peoples meters.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
As a very avid raider of WoW, TERA, AoC, Warhammer, etc, and knowing about AF armors/raids/etc in FF11, I really hope that there will be some type of DPS meter.
I mean, I know that there will be a DPS parser, but I would be hoping for an in game add-on, to prevent alt-tabbing. I know many people just flat out don't care about how well they do, but I personally like to watch as I improve. I'm not sure why you would wish away a 100% optional feature, that affects you in no way what so ever, except, to show you if you are doing something wrong or not.
A hammer can be used to build or a hammer can be used to destroy.
Its not the hammer's fault if it used to destroy, it is simply a tool.
If someone is under-performing by 10% then I dont care. However, if someone is under-performing by 90% then that is a problem that needs to be rectified.
How am I going to find out if someone is under-performing that much during a battle? Actively watch them and therfor under-perform myself because I am distracted?
A hammer can be used to build or a hammer can be used to destroy.
Its not the hammer's fault if it used to destroy, it is simply a tool.
If someone is under-performing by 10% then I dont care. However, if someone is under-performing by 90% then that is a problem that needs to be rectified.
How am I going to find out if someone is under-performing that much during a battle? Actively watch them and therfor under-perform myself because I am distracted?
No, I use a tool.
The thing is, the majority of the people that complain about use of said tool, are the ones that under perform by 90%, which are the cause of the problems. This is why they do not want these tools, as they can be awful, and no one will really know the difference.
I know it's not the case for everyone, I know some just get agitated by players who spam DPS meters all day, but then again; if you take a look at the games that do have it, you don't even see it that much anymore anyways. Out of the past 6 or so months since I have been back to WoW, I have seen:
1 person accidentally spam the CC breaker
2 people spam healing
1 person spam DPS (twice in one raid)
Another thing that people need to realize is that in Final Fantasy 14, ignoring your character name is almost like ignoring your entire account.
If you're going to be the asshat who spams meters in every pug group, then you are going to get yourself blocked by a huge numer of the community on your server (None of this cross server dungeon finding lobby b/s), and you're going to realize very soon that because you were an asshat, you have just permanently screwed yourself out of grouping with people on your server again.
The thing is, the majority of the people that complain about use of said tool, are the ones that under perform by 90%, which are the cause of the problems. This is why they do not want these tools, as they can be awful, and no one will really know the difference.
I'm sure a lot of people would love to see some evidence of that. I could quite as easily argue that the majority of people defending having DPS meters are wannabe elitist jerks that would hate to be deprived of a tool to put other players down... it works both ways.
My hating DPS meters has little to do with how much actual DPS anyone is doing and more to do with it encouraging every player to play for themself only and ignore teamwork if it helps them do more damage. I've seen it happen countless times and those players would not be obsessing over their damage so much if there wasn't such an easy way to tally it.
The thing is, the majority of the people that complain about use of said tool, are the ones that under perform by 90%, which are the cause of the problems. This is why they do not want these tools, as they can be awful, and no one will really know the difference.
I know it's not the case for everyone, I know some just get agitated by players who spam DPS meters all day, but then again; if you take a look at the games that do have it, you don't even see it that much anymore anyways. Out of the past 6 or so months since I have been back to WoW, I have seen:
I'm sure a lot of people would love to see some evidence of that. I could quite as easily argue that the majority of people defending having DPS meters are wannabe elitist jerks that would hate to be deprived of a tool to put other players down... it works both ways.
My hating DPS meters has little to do with how much actual DPS anyone is doing and more to do with it encouraging every player to play for themself only and ignore teamwork if it helps them do more damage. I've seen it happen countless times and those players would not be obsessing over their damage so much if there wasn't such an easy way to tally it.
Okay, for starters, if you're going to quote and reply to someone, don't chop off half of their quote which responds directly to your question. I went ahead and fixed that for you, but that's just dumb. Second, you're absolutely 1000000000% accurate, many people who use DPS meters are elitists, what does that have to do with people fearing DPS meters because they aren't great players? That's like saying "I can't eat my dinner because I drew a smiley face on a sticky note." <-- Makes sense, right?
If I am in a group of 25 people, and 5 of those people are preventing us from getting a boss down, I absolutely want to know who needs to be replaced. If your sense of fun is wiping on the same boss day in, day out, never making any progress, then more power to you.
ohh nooo, they will see i am using a lvl 1 ring because i think is cuteeeeeee and my pendant give me +5 STR, i dont care if i am magee is beautifulllllllll Rotations? whats that! i love to use skills after some emote to express my angry at monsters!
Yes please, dps metter, examine and more to evade these leechers.
The thing is, the majority of the people that complain about use of said tool, are the ones that under perform by 90%, which are the cause of the problems. This is why they do not want these tools, as they can be awful, and no one will really know the difference.
I know it's not the case for everyone, I know some just get agitated by players who spam DPS meters all day, but then again; if you take a look at the games that do have it, you don't even see it that much anymore anyways. Out of the past 6 or so months since I have been back to WoW, I have seen:
I'm sure a lot of people would love to see some evidence of that. I could quite as easily argue that the majority of people defending having DPS meters are wannabe elitist jerks that would hate to be deprived of a tool to put other players down... it works both ways.
My hating DPS meters has little to do with how much actual DPS anyone is doing and more to do with it encouraging every player to play for themself only and ignore teamwork if it helps them do more damage. I've seen it happen countless times and those players would not be obsessing over their damage so much if there wasn't such an easy way to tally it.
Okay, for starters, if you're going to quote and reply to someone, don't chop off half of their quote which responds directly to your question. I went ahead and fixed that for you, but that's just dumb. Second, you're absolutely 1000000000% accurate, many people who use DPS meters are elitists, what does that have to do with people fearing DPS meters because they aren't great players? That's like saying "I can't eat my dinner because I drew a smiley face on a sticky note." <-- Makes sense, right?
If I am in a group of 25 people, and 5 of those people are preventing us from getting a boss down, I absolutely want to know who needs to be replaced. If your sense of fun is wiping on the same boss day in, day out, never making any progress, then more power to you.
You made a completely unsubstantiated assertion, I made one in return. That was the point.
FYI you could just as easily have 5 people wiping your raid due to tunnel vision on the DPS meter causing them to endanger the group. I've seen it happen enough times to know it's more of an issue; you don't NEED the meter to know who isn't pulling their weight, it's usually blindingly obvious.
People are going to be elitist assholes no matter what. I, personally enjoy "DPS meters" and think they should have them. I like inching out that 5% more DPS from a spec.
As someone who likes to run and compete in races I can somewhat understand this. I am very competitive against myself and I love the feeling of shaving a second or two off my 5k and 10k times. So I can understand where you are coming from there and respect that.
I guess my concern is that they tend to shift focus the game from the community itself to the player instead. I guess though that is more on the fault of the players though. Perhaps my concern is more against the selfish elitists players that tend to use the meters and would rather call someone's post pointless and insult someone they don't even know for having a differing opinion than theirs rather than being constructive.
Comments
Mods create community, a modding community, something that WoW has, something that other games like Skyrim have, it's something that Yoshi wants for his game.
Mods aren't bad, people aren't all bad, until you have a negative outlook and only expect the worst out of them.
...and you don't have to play it competitively, or with people who are playing it competitively. If you want to piss around, then go piss around and have fun. I do that too sometimes. I'm not forcing you to use a DPS meter, you shouldn't be trying to prevent me from using one.
You guys act like if you're doing 1,000 dps instead of 1,100 dps that you'll get kicked from groups. If that is the case, "forget" them, who would want to group with people like that anyway? Find a "casual" guild if you're worried about idiots in PUGs.
Let me first say that I'm very torn on damage meters if not mods in general. I agree with much your op about damage meters fostering it even outright encouraging childish "nana nana booboo" typed behavior that is not consistent with the spirit of MMOs, but let me offer a devils advocate argument here.
You mention that you enjoy running and time yourself to track your progress. Imagine trying to do it without a stopwatch. Just look at the sun instead. Ok you can get a general idea of your time and progress but as someone that has trained in running myself I agree that trimming even a minute off of you best time is an amazing feeling. This level of detail simply cannot be measured with a sundial.
Like your stopwatch, a DPS meter is simply a tool. Do you discard that tool because of a few bad eggs or is there a better solution?
While a mite bit harshly worded I more or less agree with you.
You didn't actually just compare threat management and damge/recovery ratio in WoW to FFXI did you ? FFXI players actually can afford to be a bit high handed in that regard compared to WoW after BC.
While I will say that raiding in either of the games (or that in almost every MMO) isn't that distinctly different. The OP wasn't talking about raiding. The OP was talking about the quality of player interactions with such mods in regular use (think regular grouping and not raids).
A large number of the posts in this thread have unwittingly supported his case.
Part of the fun in MMOs is to clear content as efficiently as possible thus some way to measure performance is needed.
People who underperform shouldn`t expect to be carried by the rest. This game will have a x-server dungeon finder so there will always be non-elitist people to play with.
I agree, you shouldnt remove a tool just because "bad eggs" will abuse it or use them to shit on others enjoyment. However, like many tools we have that can also be used by "bad eggs" there are limits and prohibitions to them. Name a tool that can be abused and you can probably find some laws and prohibitions against its misuse.
A hammer for example, great tool, not allowed to bash someone over the head with it. Giving people concussions is detrimental to the community, and if you do, youre removed from the community for at least a few years. Same applies to these "DPS meters." They can help but can also be used in a way thats detrimental to the community and they should do what they can to prevent such misuse in the most efficient way possible. Since this is a video game there are MANY things that SE can do to limit such misuse, including making the meters personal, making them guild only shareable, or disable them for Duty Finder PuGs.
Only people who would ever find a problem under those limits are those very self-absorbed jerks we're talking about here that feel they have the right to judge and bully random people on the internet based on their very subjective opinions on how or what others should be doing. Never once has a guild ive been in needed a DPS meter to beat anything or had some guild leader cornering players about their performance last night after breaking down every ability used.
And to those who say "youre bad and lazy if you dont like DPS meters" ... right! IM the bad one because I dont depend on some third party tool to play the game correctly. IM the lazy one because id much rather take the extra challenge of compensating for someone elses shortcomings (coming out a better player in the end) over being a whiny little bi...... drama queen. Your assumption that someone against a DPS meter "must be bad" just shows how pathetically dependent youve become of useless tools that do nothing but display a fraction of the information which makes a good player.
DPS meters actively encourage players to take stupid risks in order to better their DPS score. Yes it depends on the player but DPS meters essentially discourage a team focus and make everything about personal gain. It also causes tunnel vision on the 'rotation' making players blind to what's going on around them.
It just makes it TOO tempting for a lot of players to push their luck that bit further to get a higher score... usually at the cost of them getting killed or often wiping the group.
And those idiots would be idiots somehow else without the DPS meters.
Idiots are idiots, bad people are bad, elitists are elitists, et cetera no matter whether there are DPS meters in the game or not.
And that's a reason to just sit back and do nothing? Just let them carry on?
If someone had a stick and kept hitting you on the head with it would you not take the stick away? Sure they could go find something else to annoy you with but at least that would be one less thing... By your argument you'd just sit there and let them keep bashing you over the head...
Watch out for this guy. He did sea. Hahahaha....
No, I'd remove myself from his presence. That is the intelligent thing to do. Not ban everybody from being able to pick up sticks like you're doing in this metaphor.
DPS meters should have their place, but a very limited one. The limitations should be only to see where an individual could find out information to help improve him or herself.
For me games should be about having fun 1st and foremost, not number-crunching or "power-gaming". If your being told that you have to parse then...who's really controlling your play-style or account? a guild master or the guild itself not you. What always happens next is to tell you have to have this equipment or other things, even though you might be doing just fine. A raid should be about overcoming obstacles together and getting the gear need to everyone to succeed.
DPS meters for competition are horrendous to say the least. It's a cry for attention IMO. While others who are good, but don't come out on top are ridiculed, mocked, looked down on (told to change things) without the slightest inclination that the person may have a handicap or connection issues. friendly completion is okay, but it always ends up putting people down. I've seen this happen a lot unfortunately.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
As a very avid raider of WoW, TERA, AoC, Warhammer, etc, and knowing about AF armors/raids/etc in FF11, I really hope that there will be some type of DPS meter.
I mean, I know that there will be a DPS parser, but I would be hoping for an in game add-on, to prevent alt-tabbing. I know many people just flat out don't care about how well they do, but I personally like to watch as I improve. I'm not sure why you would wish away a 100% optional feature, that affects you in no way what so ever, except, to show you if you are doing something wrong or not.
DPS mods are a tool. A hammer is also a tool.
A hammer can be used to build or a hammer can be used to destroy.
Its not the hammer's fault if it used to destroy, it is simply a tool.
If someone is under-performing by 10% then I dont care. However, if someone is under-performing by 90% then that is a problem that needs to be rectified.
How am I going to find out if someone is under-performing that much during a battle? Actively watch them and therfor under-perform myself because I am distracted?
No, I use a tool.
The thing is, the majority of the people that complain about use of said tool, are the ones that under perform by 90%, which are the cause of the problems. This is why they do not want these tools, as they can be awful, and no one will really know the difference.
I know it's not the case for everyone, I know some just get agitated by players who spam DPS meters all day, but then again; if you take a look at the games that do have it, you don't even see it that much anymore anyways. Out of the past 6 or so months since I have been back to WoW, I have seen:
1 person accidentally spam the CC breaker
2 people spam healing
1 person spam DPS (twice in one raid)
Another thing that people need to realize is that in Final Fantasy 14, ignoring your character name is almost like ignoring your entire account.
If you're going to be the asshat who spams meters in every pug group, then you are going to get yourself blocked by a huge numer of the community on your server (None of this cross server dungeon finding lobby b/s), and you're going to realize very soon that because you were an asshat, you have just permanently screwed yourself out of grouping with people on your server again.
I'm sure a lot of people would love to see some evidence of that. I could quite as easily argue that the majority of people defending having DPS meters are wannabe elitist jerks that would hate to be deprived of a tool to put other players down... it works both ways.
My hating DPS meters has little to do with how much actual DPS anyone is doing and more to do with it encouraging every player to play for themself only and ignore teamwork if it helps them do more damage. I've seen it happen countless times and those players would not be obsessing over their damage so much if there wasn't such an easy way to tally it.
Okay, for starters, if you're going to quote and reply to someone, don't chop off half of their quote which responds directly to your question. I went ahead and fixed that for you, but that's just dumb. Second, you're absolutely 1000000000% accurate, many people who use DPS meters are elitists, what does that have to do with people fearing DPS meters because they aren't great players? That's like saying "I can't eat my dinner because I drew a smiley face on a sticky note." <-- Makes sense, right?
If I am in a group of 25 people, and 5 of those people are preventing us from getting a boss down, I absolutely want to know who needs to be replaced. If your sense of fun is wiping on the same boss day in, day out, never making any progress, then more power to you.
ohh nooo, they will see i am using a lvl 1 ring because i think is cuteeeeeee and my pendant give me +5 STR, i dont care if i am magee is beautifulllllllll Rotations? whats that! i love to use skills after some emote to express my angry at monsters!
Yes please, dps metter, examine and more to evade these leechers.
You made a completely unsubstantiated assertion, I made one in return. That was the point.
FYI you could just as easily have 5 people wiping your raid due to tunnel vision on the DPS meter causing them to endanger the group. I've seen it happen enough times to know it's more of an issue; you don't NEED the meter to know who isn't pulling their weight, it's usually blindingly obvious.
^ So well said.
Played: Ultima Online - DaoC - WoW -