I can only laugh at you, if you think that travelling takes up too much time in EvE for doing PvE...
1. talk to agent 2. fly to the adjacent system 3. warp to mission-beacon
This takes some 3 minutes, before you engage in a combat-mission that lasts for 30 minutes and you're required to interact with the game atleast six times (talk to agent -> accept mission -> undock -> warp to gate -> jump through gate -> warp to mission).
So you're really trying to say that these 3 minutes of non-automated travel is too long compared to the 30 minutes of constantly killing targets?
After those 30 minutes of a killing-spree you'll need another 5-10 minutes to loot and salvage all the wrecks, and this requires alot of interaction aswell.
Flying back to the agent to get another mission then takes another three minutes.
So we're talking about 45 minutes for a single LvL4 combat-mission here, were you're basically looking at 40 minutes of constant interaction vs 5 minutes of semi-automated travelling.... BOOOHOOOO. Have a cookie and a papertowel.
EDIT: Sure the PvE in EvE isn't really that interesting, but if you've expected it to be, then you've not informed yourself enough about the game upfront. EvE is all about PvP and PvE is only a second thought to drive the economy.
Axe you only quantify content as things that has physical behaviour, you are failing to realise (indeed its a symptom of the themepark disease) that intellectual gameplay is a real thing, just like chess, civ, board games like mage knights, a lot of the satisfaction comes from thinking and planning. Not every game on the planet has to be a trough of shallow gaming titbits that you constantly feast on.
Again:
Eve online Civ Mage knights board game
All amazing games with super complex content and yet lots of thinking time where you physically do nothing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Anyone who thinks there is more downtime in any game other then WoW is mistaken.
How long do you wait to get people together to do a raid? How long does it take to do a raid? How long do you sit there waiting for people after the group wipes on a raid?
WoW is the king/queen of downtime. Anytime you get a game that you need more then just a couple of people to do stuff it increases the amount of time waiting for people. Then take the amount of children with ADD that play WoW and it turns into hours and hours just to complete some content. Then if you happen to not complete it, you have to go through all the downtime another day trying to get the group back together.
WoW also likes to block people from doing content only more then once a week. SO after you complete everything for the week the game is nothing but downtime.
Anyone who doesn't see this has a huge hate for the game they are saying has more downtime or the are too attached to WoW that it can do no wrong.
And no, travel is not a choice in EVE. It's fundamental to the type of game EVE is! EVE is not a travel-optional game by any stretch. It's not like GW2 where once you do the interesting travel (first-time exploration) you can skip it in the future (instant fast travel.) Travel is required in EVE. There are some valid arguments to be had regarding EVE's depth, but let's not stray into the realm of fantasy and pretend travel is something you choose to do -- it's forced upon you.
Yes, travel is required and a very key component of the game play in EVE is figuring out and taking action on how to minimize and avoid it.
So many game mechanics are involved, a player can train skills to make his ships fly faster and farther, or train for specific ships that speed up travel, but then you have the decision to make, haul more cargo, at a slower rate, or less cargo at a faster rate?
Or, do you take another approach, and get someone to carry your ship across long distances in their jump freighter or carrier? Or do you make the journey yourself? Cloaked ship? Fast interceptor? Is it safe to harvest your data cores in a cheap light, fast ship, or do you take out the massively tanked battle cruiser to prevent from being ganked even if you are in the safer empire zones?
Do you dare risk much shorter journeys on routes that go through low sec space, or do you take the usually much longer and safer all empire roots. And if you do decide to go the fast way, can you properly scout to make sure you survive the journey.
Even in mining, you have to figure out the best way to haul the ore back for processing without losing it or spending too much time in the effort.
Mission running, where do you locate your base of operations so to minimize your travel to far away systems, and if offered a mission of 8 hops away, is it possible/preferable to decline it in order to keep up with your efficiency.
When you hear the call that your allies systems are under attack, can you figure out a way to form up a 400 ship fleet and get it to the destination system before its too late? Do you go all together, split your forces, send out the stealth brigade, call in for allies who are closer?
Sure, travel in itself isn't an "activity" that requires lots of button pushing like the combat of most MMO's out there today, but I'll disagree that travel (or avoidance thereof) isn't an important game play mechanic of a title such as EVE.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ITT: I ragequit eve because I can't finish the tutorial and it takes too long to travel. Well guess what, the sole fact that travelling is a time and risk investment is what fuels a big part of the game's economy and player engagement. But you wouldn't know that if you're used to teleporting everywhere. If you actually bothered to understand how a game even works before jumping to conclusions, or flawed comparisons with games that have little to nothing to do with it you would maybe realize how it's supposed to be played.
When I left EVE the last time and was asked why I was leaving...I said...."I WOULD RATHER HAVE A ROOT CANAL WITHOUT ANESTHESIA THAN SUBJEcT MYSELF TO ANOTHER MINUTE OF EVE".
and yet you have nothing better to do than come to these forums whining about it. There seems to be more ragequit threads about this game than actual discussion about it around here, sadly.
I'm sure that contributed to our discussion greatly.
I can only laugh at you, if you think that travelling takes up too much time in EvE for doing PvE...
1. talk to agent 2. fly to the adjacent system 3. warp to mission-beacon.
If you don't think travel time in EVE takes up at least double what it takes in a typical MMORPG (as a portion of overall playtime), you're just outright lying. You pretty much have to go entirely out of your way to stay in the same place for it to be otherwise.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
That's the least of the reasons EVE is unenjoyable, haha! The massive chunk of time you spent traveling to that mission which involved no gameplay (just time-wasting) is the much bigger failing of the game.
Thankfully there are enough gameplay-filled games out there that we needn't waste out time with an empty game experience.
What are you talking about, "massive" chunk of time traveling to the mission? With the exception of the Epic Arc missions, the regular combat missions have very miniscule travel times to and from the site compared to the time you spend fighting. It's very comparable to the travel times from a mission agent in a city giving a monster-hunt mission to the site where those monsters are in quite a few MMOs that I've played.
If you're calling Eve an "empty" game experience, you really did practically nothing in it did you? Did you even join a player corp instead of staying in one of the NPC ones?
Yes, travel is required and a very key component of the game play in EVE is figuring out and taking action on how to minimize and avoid it.
So many game mechanics are involved, a player can train skills to make his ships fly faster and farther, or train for specific ships that speed up travel, but then you have the decision to make, haul more cargo, at a slower rate, or less cargo at a faster rate?
Or, do you take another approach, and get someone to carry your ship across long distances in their jump freighter or carrier? Or do you make the journey yourself? Cloaked ship? Fast interceptor? Is it safe to harvest your data cores in a cheap light, fast ship, or do you take out the massively tanked battle cruiser to prevent from being ganked even if you are in the safer empire zones?
Do you dare risk much shorter journeys on routes that go through low sec space, or do you take the usually much longer and safer all empire roots. And if you do decide to go the fast way, can you properly scout to make sure you survive the journey.
Even in mining, you have to figure out the best way to haul the ore back for processing without losing it or spending too much time in the effort.
Mission running, where do you locate your base of operations so to minimize your travel to far away systems, and if offered a mission of 8 hops away, is it possible/preferable to decline it in order to keep up with your efficiency.
When you hear the call that your allies systems are under attack, can you figure out a way to form up a 400 ship fleet and get it to the destination system before its too late? Do you go all together, split your forces, send out the stealth brigade, call in for allies who are closer?
Sure, travel in itself isn't an "activity" that requires lots of button pushing like the combat of most MMO's out there today, but I'll disagree that travel (or avoidance thereof) isn't an important game play mechanic of a title such as EVE.
Those are interesting decisions, up until the point where you actually make the trip and it's 10 minutes of mind-numbing non-gameplay.
The core problem is that other games offer similarly interesting decisions, without the 10 minutes of boredom.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
'interesting decisions' it's something a manager would say or developers who understand widgets but don't understand uix experience design- not a game playes As I said earlier civ/chess/board games like mage knights all have periods of sustained inactivity where you do nothing but think, and yet they are considered right up there with the best gaming experiences of all time.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/SOE_Epic_Arc_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v0.95.pdf just use this and as others have said u can ignore the soe arc and the scanning tutorials if u want and just get on with the game, or you can skip the scanning tutorial and just do the soe arc. Also if you're having trouble scanning remember to check the youtube/video tutorials and since u payed I'd suggest you try a bit of everything before you quit as the pve missions can be a bit boring and possibly other aspects of eve will appeal to you, you may aswell get your moneys worth.
If you're calling Eve an "empty" game experience, you really did practically nothing in it did you? Did you even join a player corp instead of staying in one of the NPC ones?
Well after many attempts to enjoy EVE, and having the game mechanics encourage me to do nothing (but not AFK,) I did join a guild.
And then I had players in my corp encourage me to do nothing (stay in the station until official patrols or be kicked from the corp, because we were at war and wanted to mitigate risk.)
It sealed the deal for sure.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Bladestrom Axe you only quantify content as things that has physical behaviour, you are failing to realise (indeed its a symptom of the themepark disease) that intellectual gameplay is a real thing, just like chess, civ, board games like mage knights, a lot of the satisfaction comes from thinking and planning. Not every game on the planet has to be a trough of shallow gaming titbits that you constantly feast on.
Again:
Eve online Civ Mage knights board game
All amazing games with super complex content and yet lots of thinking time where you physically do nothing.
As I've pointed out to several others, many games provide this sort of planning without excessive travel times.
Your list of other examples is perfect for making this point actually.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Lol like what games? The industry is still terrible right now and writled with broken sandboxes and WoW clones. EVE is the only solid meaningful P2P game out there right now, bad players just wont see it.
1) Almost every other game made (ever) has had a bigger focus on gameplay and less of a focus on downtime (travel, mining, etc) than EVE, so the list is rather large.
2) But to name a few: WOW, TF2, LoL, Sim City, and Civilization.
3) These games achieve a similar (or superior) depth compared to EVE, and they do it without excessive empty timesinks (periods where there is little to no interaction with the game; where there is no gameplay.)
I numbered your points above for referencing to help me counter them.
1) I am a veteran of over two thousand games on every known gaming system. Trust me, Eve Online is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said in this point. There are things I have seen and done in Eve that I didn't even know could be done in a videogame until they happened, and they were definitely awe-inspiring to me. You really have no clue what you're talking about.
2) Oh this is rich...
TF2 (Team Fortress 2) is a squad FPS arena shooter a la Counterstrike. What in gods name are you doing comparing that to ANY mmo of any kind? The game mechanics are so different between them that there is zero ground for comparison. If you were to compare TF2 to Dust 514, that would be different.
LoL (League of Legends) is a Warcraft 3 DotA clone. Pretty much the same argument as TF2, what are you doing comparing that to any MMO?
Sim City and Civilization...bird's-eye view single player city builders, one of which has no combat of any kind? Seriously? Why are you comparing those to an MMO? And besides, Eve's Nullsec Sovreignty mechanics give what I would consider an even more in-depth and complicated system than those two. You obviously never went to Nullsec.
WoW (World of Warcraft): As others have mentioned this is the only MMO you listed so the only one that could be adequately compared to Eve. Compared to WoW, Eve has more advanced one on one pvp, more advanced squad on squad PvP, fleet PvP at player numbers that would make WoW servers explode, a resource extraction and crafting system over ten times as deep and does not require craptons of grinding out equipment to gain skill in it, effectively unlimited "class" selection that is achieved simply by switching ships and equipment....so how exactly is WoW better? Even your original argument on travel times is rather invalid, WoW travel times can be pretty long too.
3). I think my answers to your previous two points pretty much completely nullifies your third one. It's extremely obvious you dug into very little of Eve's game mechanics, perhaps trying 20% of them at best.
If you're calling Eve an "empty" game experience, you really did practically nothing in it did you? Did you even join a player corp instead of staying in one of the NPC ones?
Well after many attempts to enjoy EVE, and having the game mechanics encourage me to do nothing (but not AFK,) I did join a guild.
And then I had players in my corp encourage me to do nothing (stay in the station until official patrols or be kicked from the corp, because we were at war and wanted to mitigate risk.)
It sealed the deal for sure.
They were saving your ass you dolt. You'd rather get blown up again and again? Do you have any idea how easy it is to hunt down someone in a corp you're at war with, if you know the right techniques? I do, because I used them many times in hisec wars. If we were at war and you came online while I was online:
-I would know the exact second you came online
-I would know what system you were in within about three minutes
-If you were undocked I would be shooting at you within about ten minutes of you coming online.
It's shockIng and yet not surprising in this age of gaming trash that some people are incapable of seeing the meta game or using their imagination. If it doesn't offer a constant stream of exciting little 'progress rewards' that can be gained through a Miriad of mini games it cannot be a game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Kili I'm an eve noob and that scares me ^^
-grins evilly- don't worry Bambi, I've been around for quite a while -his guns start tracking your ship-
Also Axe either has something lodged somewhere against EVE or is just a really poor game industry guy (he claimed in the past to be involved in the industry) as he compares high risk with low risk and then has the temerity to claim that people shouldn't have the option of choosing paths (mining might be boring but it is also, bar Hulkaggeddon or a freak chance, incredibly safe and with minimum effort on the part of the player also very lucrative but compare this to say 0.0 plex running in a Ishtar or Ishkur, running an illegal moon operation in 0.0, being a low sec explorer, engaging in factional warfare, engaging in proper 0.0 bloc warfare and whatnot it is either way less lucrative and exciting or at the very least less exciting... oh and don't even get me started on the crazy shit you can get up to in a wormhole, hint: omni-tank a cyclone with 70-80% resists, strap a t2 cheapo fit on it, fill your cargohold full of ammo, maybe leave 20-30 m3, get a probe launcher and a pair of probes and then just go into a C2 and see where the road takes you while running sites and dodging angry hole dwellers).
Lol like what games? The industry is still terrible right now and writled with broken sandboxes and WoW clones. EVE is the only solid meaningful P2P game out there right now, bad players just wont see it.
1) Almost every other game made (ever) has had a bigger focus on gameplay and less of a focus on downtime (travel, mining, etc) than EVE, so the list is rather large.
2) But to name a few: WOW, TF2, LoL, Sim City, and Civilization.
3) These games achieve a similar (or superior) depth compared to EVE, and they do it without excessive empty timesinks (periods where there is little to no interaction with the game; where there is no gameplay.)
I numbered your points above for referencing to help me counter them.
1) I am a veteran of over two thousand games on every known gaming system. Trust me, Eve Online is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said in this point. There are things I have seen and done in Eve that I didn't even know could be done in a videogame until they happened, and they were definitely awe-inspiring to me. You really have no clue what you're talking about.
2) Oh this is rich...
TF2 (Team Fortress 2) is a squad FPS arena shooter a la Counterstrike. What in gods name are you doing comparing that to ANY mmo of any kind? The game mechanics are so different between them that there is zero ground for comparison. If you were to compare TF2 to Dust 514, that would be different.
LoL (League of Legends) is a Warcraft 3 DotA clone. Pretty much the same argument as TF2, what are you doing comparing that to any MMO?
Sim City and Civilization...bird's-eye view single player city builders, one of which has no combat of any kind? Seriously? Why are you comparing those to an MMO? And besides, Eve's Nullsec Sovreignty mechanics give what I would consider an even more in-depth and complicated system than those two. You obviously never went to Nullsec.
WoW (World of Warcraft): As others have mentioned this is the only MMO you listed so the only one that could be adequately compared to Eve. Compared to WoW, Eve has more advanced one on one pvp, more advanced squad on squad PvP, fleet PvP at player numbers that would make WoW servers explode, a resource extraction and crafting system over ten times as deep and does not require craptons of grinding out equipment to gain skill in it, effectively unlimited "class" selection that is achieved simply by switching ships and equipment....so how exactly is WoW better? Even your original argument on travel times is rather invalid, WoW travel times can be pretty long too.
3). I think my answers to your previous two points pretty much completely nullifies your third one. It's extremely obvious you dug into very little of Eve's game mechanics, perhaps trying 20% of them at best.
Yes, travel is required and a very key component of the game play in EVE is figuring out and taking action on how to minimize and avoid it.
So many game mechanics are involved, a player can train skills to make his ships fly faster and farther, or train for specific ships that speed up travel, but then you have the decision to make, haul more cargo, at a slower rate, or less cargo at a faster rate?
Or, do you take another approach, and get someone to carry your ship across long distances in their jump freighter or carrier? Or do you make the journey yourself? Cloaked ship? Fast interceptor? Is it safe to harvest your data cores in a cheap light, fast ship, or do you take out the massively tanked battle cruiser to prevent from being ganked even if you are in the safer empire zones?
Do you dare risk much shorter journeys on routes that go through low sec space, or do you take the usually much longer and safer all empire roots. And if you do decide to go the fast way, can you properly scout to make sure you survive the journey.
Even in mining, you have to figure out the best way to haul the ore back for processing without losing it or spending too much time in the effort.
Mission running, where do you locate your base of operations so to minimize your travel to far away systems, and if offered a mission of 8 hops away, is it possible/preferable to decline it in order to keep up with your efficiency.
When you hear the call that your allies systems are under attack, can you figure out a way to form up a 400 ship fleet and get it to the destination system before its too late? Do you go all together, split your forces, send out the stealth brigade, call in for allies who are closer?
Sure, travel in itself isn't an "activity" that requires lots of button pushing like the combat of most MMO's out there today, but I'll disagree that travel (or avoidance thereof) isn't an important game play mechanic of a title such as EVE.
Those are interesting decisions, up until the point where you actually make the trip and it's 10 minutes of mind-numbing non-gameplay.
The core problem is that other games offer similarly interesting decisions, without the 10 minutes of boredom.
Sort of like golf I suppose, you hit the ball, and then there's several minutes of boring walking, riding or waiting to hit the ball again. Totally boring and can't see the appeal.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Bladestrom you were complaining about periods where you are forced to do nothing (I.e travelling)
Right and the periods where you're forced to do nothing are a completely trivial percentage of the overall experience in Civilization. For every 1-8 minutes you spend thinking and acting in a turn, you lose 1-6 seconds to the computer taking its turn.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Sort of like golf I suppose, you hit the ball, and then there's several minutes of boring walking, riding or waiting to hit the ball again. Totally boring and can't see the appeal.
Oh wait, I like to play golf too.
You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?
I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it. Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?
:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by KyleranSort of like golf I suppose, you hit the ball, and then there's several minutes of boring walking, riding or waiting to hit the ball again. Totally boring and can't see the appeal.Oh wait, I like to play golf too.
You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?
I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it. Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?
:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.
I still play in private roleplay simulations and servers where we mostly just RP political intrigue, personal story arcs, events and the like...There are combat systems however the roleplay and character development, along with pursuit of faction goals behind the scenes takes precedence.
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Comments
I can only laugh at you, if you think that travelling takes up too much time in EvE for doing PvE...
1. talk to agent
2. fly to the adjacent system
3. warp to mission-beacon
This takes some 3 minutes, before you engage in a combat-mission that lasts for 30 minutes and you're required to interact with the game atleast six times (talk to agent -> accept mission -> undock -> warp to gate -> jump through gate -> warp to mission).
So you're really trying to say that these 3 minutes of non-automated travel is too long compared to the 30 minutes of constantly killing targets?
After those 30 minutes of a killing-spree you'll need another 5-10 minutes to loot and salvage all the wrecks, and this requires alot of interaction aswell.
Flying back to the agent to get another mission then takes another three minutes.
So we're talking about 45 minutes for a single LvL4 combat-mission here, were you're basically looking at 40 minutes of constant interaction vs 5 minutes of semi-automated travelling.... BOOOHOOOO. Have a cookie and a papertowel.
EDIT: Sure the PvE in EvE isn't really that interesting, but if you've expected it to be, then you've not informed yourself enough about the game upfront. EvE is all about PvP and PvE is only a second thought to drive the economy.
Again:
Eve online
Civ
Mage knights board game
All amazing games with super complex content and yet lots of thinking time where you physically do nothing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Anyone who thinks there is more downtime in any game other then WoW is mistaken.
How long do you wait to get people together to do a raid? How long does it take to do a raid? How long do you sit there waiting for people after the group wipes on a raid?
WoW is the king/queen of downtime. Anytime you get a game that you need more then just a couple of people to do stuff it increases the amount of time waiting for people. Then take the amount of children with ADD that play WoW and it turns into hours and hours just to complete some content. Then if you happen to not complete it, you have to go through all the downtime another day trying to get the group back together.
WoW also likes to block people from doing content only more then once a week. SO after you complete everything for the week the game is nothing but downtime.
Anyone who doesn't see this has a huge hate for the game they are saying has more downtime or the are too attached to WoW that it can do no wrong.
Yes, travel is required and a very key component of the game play in EVE is figuring out and taking action on how to minimize and avoid it.
So many game mechanics are involved, a player can train skills to make his ships fly faster and farther, or train for specific ships that speed up travel, but then you have the decision to make, haul more cargo, at a slower rate, or less cargo at a faster rate?
Or, do you take another approach, and get someone to carry your ship across long distances in their jump freighter or carrier? Or do you make the journey yourself? Cloaked ship? Fast interceptor? Is it safe to harvest your data cores in a cheap light, fast ship, or do you take out the massively tanked battle cruiser to prevent from being ganked even if you are in the safer empire zones?
Do you dare risk much shorter journeys on routes that go through low sec space, or do you take the usually much longer and safer all empire roots. And if you do decide to go the fast way, can you properly scout to make sure you survive the journey.
Even in mining, you have to figure out the best way to haul the ore back for processing without losing it or spending too much time in the effort.
Mission running, where do you locate your base of operations so to minimize your travel to far away systems, and if offered a mission of 8 hops away, is it possible/preferable to decline it in order to keep up with your efficiency.
When you hear the call that your allies systems are under attack, can you figure out a way to form up a 400 ship fleet and get it to the destination system before its too late? Do you go all together, split your forces, send out the stealth brigade, call in for allies who are closer?
Sure, travel in itself isn't an "activity" that requires lots of button pushing like the combat of most MMO's out there today, but I'll disagree that travel (or avoidance thereof) isn't an important game play mechanic of a title such as EVE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
and yet you have nothing better to do than come to these forums whining about it. There seems to be more ragequit threads about this game than actual discussion about it around here, sadly.
I'm sure that contributed to our discussion greatly.
If you don't think travel time in EVE takes up at least double what it takes in a typical MMORPG (as a portion of overall playtime), you're just outright lying. You pretty much have to go entirely out of your way to stay in the same place for it to be otherwise.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
What are you talking about, "massive" chunk of time traveling to the mission? With the exception of the Epic Arc missions, the regular combat missions have very miniscule travel times to and from the site compared to the time you spend fighting. It's very comparable to the travel times from a mission agent in a city giving a monster-hunt mission to the site where those monsters are in quite a few MMOs that I've played.
If you're calling Eve an "empty" game experience, you really did practically nothing in it did you? Did you even join a player corp instead of staying in one of the NPC ones?
Where's the any key?
Those are interesting decisions, up until the point where you actually make the trip and it's 10 minutes of mind-numbing non-gameplay.
The core problem is that other games offer similarly interesting decisions, without the 10 minutes of boredom.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/SOE_Epic_Arc_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v0.95.pdf just use this and as others have said u can ignore the soe arc and the scanning tutorials if u want and just get on with the game, or you can skip the scanning tutorial and just do the soe arc. Also if you're having trouble scanning remember to check the youtube/video tutorials and since u payed I'd suggest you try a bit of everything before you quit as the pve missions can be a bit boring and possibly other aspects of eve will appeal to you, you may aswell get your moneys worth.
Well after many attempts to enjoy EVE, and having the game mechanics encourage me to do nothing (but not AFK,) I did join a guild.
And then I had players in my corp encourage me to do nothing (stay in the station until official patrols or be kicked from the corp, because we were at war and wanted to mitigate risk.)
It sealed the deal for sure.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As I've pointed out to several others, many games provide this sort of planning without excessive travel times.
Your list of other examples is perfect for making this point actually.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I numbered your points above for referencing to help me counter them.
1) I am a veteran of over two thousand games on every known gaming system. Trust me, Eve Online is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said in this point. There are things I have seen and done in Eve that I didn't even know could be done in a videogame until they happened, and they were definitely awe-inspiring to me. You really have no clue what you're talking about.
2) Oh this is rich...
TF2 (Team Fortress 2) is a squad FPS arena shooter a la Counterstrike. What in gods name are you doing comparing that to ANY mmo of any kind? The game mechanics are so different between them that there is zero ground for comparison. If you were to compare TF2 to Dust 514, that would be different.
LoL (League of Legends) is a Warcraft 3 DotA clone. Pretty much the same argument as TF2, what are you doing comparing that to any MMO?
Sim City and Civilization...bird's-eye view single player city builders, one of which has no combat of any kind? Seriously? Why are you comparing those to an MMO? And besides, Eve's Nullsec Sovreignty mechanics give what I would consider an even more in-depth and complicated system than those two. You obviously never went to Nullsec.
WoW (World of Warcraft): As others have mentioned this is the only MMO you listed so the only one that could be adequately compared to Eve. Compared to WoW, Eve has more advanced one on one pvp, more advanced squad on squad PvP, fleet PvP at player numbers that would make WoW servers explode, a resource extraction and crafting system over ten times as deep and does not require craptons of grinding out equipment to gain skill in it, effectively unlimited "class" selection that is achieved simply by switching ships and equipment....so how exactly is WoW better? Even your original argument on travel times is rather invalid, WoW travel times can be pretty long too.
3). I think my answers to your previous two points pretty much completely nullifies your third one. It's extremely obvious you dug into very little of Eve's game mechanics, perhaps trying 20% of them at best.
Where's the any key?
They were saving your ass you dolt. You'd rather get blown up again and again? Do you have any idea how easy it is to hunt down someone in a corp you're at war with, if you know the right techniques? I do, because I used them many times in hisec wars. If we were at war and you came online while I was online:
-I would know the exact second you came online
-I would know what system you were in within about three minutes
-If you were undocked I would be shooting at you within about ten minutes of you coming online.
Where's the any key?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
-grins evilly- don't worry Bambi, I've been around for quite a while -his guns start tracking your ship-
Also Axe either has something lodged somewhere against EVE or is just a really poor game industry guy (he claimed in the past to be involved in the industry) as he compares high risk with low risk and then has the temerity to claim that people shouldn't have the option of choosing paths (mining might be boring but it is also, bar Hulkaggeddon or a freak chance, incredibly safe and with minimum effort on the part of the player also very lucrative but compare this to say 0.0 plex running in a Ishtar or Ishkur, running an illegal moon operation in 0.0, being a low sec explorer, engaging in factional warfare, engaging in proper 0.0 bloc warfare and whatnot it is either way less lucrative and exciting or at the very least less exciting... oh and don't even get me started on the crazy shit you can get up to in a wormhole, hint: omni-tank a cyclone with 70-80% resists, strap a t2 cheapo fit on it, fill your cargohold full of ammo, maybe leave 20-30 m3, get a probe launcher and a pair of probes and then just go into a C2 and see where the road takes you while running sites and dodging angry hole dwellers).
this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Sort of like golf I suppose, you hit the ball, and then there's several minutes of boring walking, riding or waiting to hit the ball again. Totally boring and can't see the appeal.
Oh wait, I like to play golf too.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Right and the periods where you're forced to do nothing are a completely trivial percentage of the overall experience in Civilization. For every 1-8 minutes you spend thinking and acting in a turn, you lose 1-6 seconds to the computer taking its turn.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?
I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it. Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?
:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?
I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it. Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?
:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.
I still play in private roleplay simulations and servers where we mostly just RP political intrigue, personal story arcs, events and the like...There are combat systems however the roleplay and character development, along with pursuit of faction goals behind the scenes takes precedence.--Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
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