There's nothing touchy about this subject because it's so fundamental. Consoles are ill suited to MMO's period.
It has nothing to do with computing power, before anyone jumps in with the next gen hardware specs. It's as basic as this, the controller is the limitation. Yes, we see a lot more action oriented MMO's today with fewer hotkeys etc but the social side of MMO's requires a keyboard and very few console players bother with them.
From the current and past examples we've seen of MMO's attempted on consoles we see the same things, cut down versions, restrictions to abilities, crafting, all the things that make an MMO a massive social event and not just a game. Defiance can't even deliver a working chat system FFS! Way to kill the social side of your MMO.
Any move to push the genre onto consoles is abad idea and the sooner this idea gets dropped the better.
I certainly won't be buying the Xbox 1. All the "features" that were displayed for it seem like restrictions to me! To each his/her own though I suppose.
Any of us that have played FFXI on the PS2 or Xbox 360 can tell you that these anti-console people are talking out their arse. If people get an mmorpg on the console they will likely pick up a chat pad or a usb keyboard.
First - the "facts" are wrong. FFXIV is releasing on the PS3 as well as PC on Aug 27th - it is releasing on PS4 in 2014 as well. A columnist writing for an MMO site should get their facts together before being published.
Second - both PS3 and PS4 and probably 360 and XB1 support USB keyboards, and both PS3 and XB360 have "texting pad" peripherals to enable easy text-based chat. Everyone over the age of 5 and under the age of 60 should be pretty damn good at thumb typing these days.
Third - if the comments in this forum, or the millions of dumb ass comments on internet boards across the 'verse and in the general chat of your favorite PC MMO are any indication, the ratio of immature dumb asses to "mature" players is the same on console as it is on PC.
About 10,000,000 to 1.
Fourth - the idea that having a dozen full hotbars = complexity has been dispelled a million and a half times over, so control scheme is about as valid of an argument as the grand "maturity" of the PC community.
Fifth - many, many MMOs are coming to the next gen consoles - you can either continue to bitch and moan like children, or accept the fact that gaming is changing. The kids will never get off your lawn, and no one cares that you walked uphill through the snow both ways.
This is all coming from a 25+ year PC AND console gaming veteran, and 13+ year MMO veteran who cut my virtual avatar teeth dodging PK's outside Brittania.
Have to disagree. People who buy consoles do not buy keyboards or mice to any extent. Console people usually use voice, which is fine, but it really breaks any rpg elements of the game.
If you are in any kind of a pvp event and you are playing on a console with a controller and I am on a PC with mouse/keyboard, I will own you all the time. If you notice most game servers do not mix the console people with the PC people for that reason.
False.
I am 100x better with shooters on console than on PC. Your theory has been disproven on these boards and many others a thousand times.
It takes just as much skill to play COD or Halo etc. on console as it does to play CS or BF etc. on PC.
The reason you don't see mix now is because A) Microsoft has a generally completely closed off network structure through XBOX live, so no cross-play with PC/PS except in VERY rare cases (one of them being MMO) and PS3 was/is coded with crazy custom processor and unique architecture, hard to cross-platform and devs hated PS3 to PC or XB ports because of it.
Both XB1 and PS4 are x86 just like the PC gaming world, PS4 is opening realm of cross-platform play, XB1 might for some games, but is probably still going to be a b!tch and segregate themselves on a lot of titles.
I promise you there will be cross platform games between PC and the new consoles, and your theory is going to fly out the window each and every time some "console noob" beats you.
I read your response and completely disagree. In fact if you read this article, the xbox people at Microsoft agree with me.
Let's see you back up your statement with some facts. Going to be hard to find them.
BTW I have tested this with my son, who is far better at these shooter games than I am, I pretty much owned him in the games we could go head to head in.
I played DCUO on my PS3 and not once did I ever have a issue or not enjoy my experience.
Also while I will admit that console MMOs simplify things, I wouldn't go off and call them lazy. Kinda rude.
I drilled a hole through my wall and played "Poke the wire through 1 feet of wall" game, simply cause I wanted to have my router connected directly for better latency. Was that lazy? Was that easy? Hell no.
People are strapped to their keyboard and mouse and need to start letting go of these concepts. As technology moves forward these stone age tools will not last. Not saying that the gamepad is the future but the mentality behind PC gamers is somewhat silly. As if keyboard/mouse were somehow superior to everything.
FFXIV has made great progress in the gamepad arena. They're ideas are slick and very responsive and fun. Completely capable of doing battle as well anyone else. Talking on the other hand on the gamepad due to no voice chat can be a little difficult. Also your point towards hearing a garbled voice from level 52 elf is hypocrisy given that EVERYONE uses Vent or Mumble or Teamspeak and no one talks inside of a game unless its "LFG for UBRS, no noobz lawlz. KK PST"
In the end. Whatever floats your boat....play it on console....play it on PC, whatever.
I look forward to the day where we will say neither of these things and simply say "Hey lets play our favorite MMORPG!" and suck our brains into the Matrix. :P
The distinction between console and PC is, imo, completely nonsense at this point in time. Consoles are nothing but PC's with a different (or, in the case of xbox, modified) operating system.
Other than the fact that consoles are always several generations behind the tech of PC for those of us with the money to throw at regular PC upgrades, there is no real difference. Just artificial ones that exist only due to our own skewed perceptions.
Many people point to mouse+keyboard vs. controller as a distinction, but that's just not the case. A lot of PC gamers have controllers hooked up to their PCs, many console gamers have mouse and keyboard hooked up to their console (In my case, both are true).
Other people point to whether you are sitting at a desk or lounging on a couch as a difference, but again, this is an artificial distinction. Some PC gamers have their PC hooked up to their TV and some console gamers use a computer monitor and not a TV.
At the end of the day, there is no such thing as a "console gamer" or a "PC gamer". There are only "gamers".
I, for one, am looking forward to seeing more MMO choices on console.
Just give me a console to where I can attach a keyboard and a mouse to it and I will be golden.
At this point I think everyone will be picking up both PS4 and Xbox One, however which one will cater more to the PC gamer still remains to be seen.
If everyone jumped ship and went from tower to console, what does that mean for all the graphic card companies like radeon and nvidia? There is talk that PC towers will be obsolete in the near future, but then again rumors are rumors.
I will stick to the PC Tower as long as I can for my gaming needs. I am just too old school and honestly in my elementary school days it was the Atari 2600 and Colecovision, in my young adulthood it was Sega Genesis and the 1st Playstation were the last consoles I really enjoyed.
the 2nd 2 FACTS are proven by the very companies putting out the consoles...
the controller is a terrible mmo device, its not even that good of a fps device
Consoles nowadays put the vast majority of people PCs to utter shame and in fact companies are likely hindered by not using consoles since they take the punsihment of high performance games better than your avg gamer's comp.
I'm sure with the next gen consoles they will have keyboard adapters and mouse since it's not really rocket science if they haven't already got adapters one can use. People already play MMOs with a controller.
People who hold fast that PC will always be the only option for MMOs are staying in the stone age, consoles nowadays are more like mini comps than anything.
the 2nd 2 FACTS are proven by the very companies putting out the consoles...
the controller is a terrible mmo device, its not even that good of a fps device
Consoles nowadays put the vast majority of people PCs to utter shame and in fact companies are likely hindered by not using consoles since they take the punsihment of high performance games better than your avg gamer's comp.
I'm sure with the next gen consoles they will have keyboard adapters and mouse since it's not really rocket science if they haven't already got adapters one can use. People already play MMOs with a controller.
People who hold fast that PC will always be the only option for MMOs are staying in the stone age, consoles nowadays are more like mini comps than anything.
do you actually believe what you typed?
you think MMO companies are HINDERED by PC's...... Don't you think they would have flooded the console market if consoles could perform to the same standard of gameplay required for the average MMO?
I have yet to see a single console controller mmo that is as intense as a kb+m designed mmo.
but please... prove how a gaming pc is outdone by a console in performance.
people who play on consoles are casual players, they sit in the living room playing a game until dancing with the stars is on.
MMos are for dedicated pc players looking for a virtual word to escape into and be a part of a community, not sit on the couch half asleep while your wife complains that your hogging the tv.
I agree wholeheartedly with you WellzyC, well met. I do however, like to have my console on the side while the wife is hogging the PC. or you have the one best friend that is a hardcore console gamer and the good friend you are, you buy it just to play with them. Me and a few of my buddies will be doing this just for "The Division".
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Lol, here we go again with the pc vs console bull Crap again.
While I love the intensity of the arguments, once again I point out that consoles are not The devil, are in fact more powerful that most of your computers. How do I know this?
Because a huge chunk of you layers always cry about compatability issues when new games, tech comes out.
Secondly, there's a lot more people like badspock and i out there, but have more important things to do than spew console hate.
Admit it consoles are up and coming awesomeness. Gaming is changing. I have a computer that I know kicks ass on most of you out there,have played mmorpg's exclusively for 20 years, pretty much have won EVE as much as a guy can, and love certain games on my console too, nothing like playing game on a 60inch TV.
I've been fairly biased towards PC in the past, and haven't purchased a PS2/3 or XBOX (but I do play on they every month or so at friends' places).
However, seeing major titles mix up PC and Console, I'm thinking I will probably buy a PS4 or XBOX One when they come out, and focus less on getting a high-end PC upgraded. The only iff I have with consoles are the controls themselves. For chatting and community I mostly use voice chat, so that doesn't bother me, but I don't really feel how a gamepad can play an MMO...
GoW is brilliant on a PS, but even FFXIV seems a bit over the top with a gamepad compared to a PC.
Call me a purist, elitest or FFS anything you like but I firmly believe that MMO do not belong on a console. A PC will forever be the ultimate gaming rig and nothing will ever change my mind regardless of where the "future is heading".
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I don't need to purchase a gaming console, my area 51 desktop has the form factor of a xbox360 has a lot more functionality, a superior graphics card...what it boils down to is where gaming trends are going. contrary to popular belief adults have less disposable income, at the end of a normal month I have about 300$ to my name. People look at the cons of a 3-4 year upgrade cycle for computers as opposed to a gaming console you can maybe get what 7 years out of given the used game market. Digital makes getting games easier for both platforms. But the real factor is time. Mmo design is changing to reflect peope inability to invest huge chunks of time on gaming....moving mmos to a gaming console may actually be the future. Arguing the social aspects is a joke. The only games that require true interaction are fps, which frankly suck on consols especially the sony systems with the dual sticks. Maybe as well its a sign gaming companys can't eek out the money the need in a very crowded mmo market. Moving them to consoles will give some companies a quick cash infusion.....
Firstly I wanted to quote so many people's comments that it would take me about 3 hours work to do so.
So the console MM0 gamer's point of view of all this is this. I am a console MMO veteran , having played PSO for 4 years , PSU for 7 years and a few months of EQOA. That's a total of 11 years of console MMO gaming , of which I played all of them with a keyboard on my lap and a controller in my hand. I find it strange you ( Tingle ) mentioned the PS2 , so why didn't you play EQOA , PSU or even Monster Hunter ? DC , GC ,PS2 and xbox 360 all use USB keyboards. The defiance example ( someone posted ) is a totally garbage representation of what a social MMO actually is , it was their design to have a carp chat system , not the consoles limitations.
So in recent times I did have to swap to a PC for my MMO's ( until a decent one comes out on a console ) World of Tanks , Destiny and a few others should change that fact once again. Guess what I have been doing for the past year and a half ? Playing SWTOR sat on my sofa with a keyboard on my lap and 360 controller in hand , as I have always done. So I just wasted 10 mins of my double xp on SwTOR , better get back to it .
To conclude , MMO's have been and are always going to be on consoles , it's just the lazy dev's have maybe woken up and/or jumped on the bandwagon. Also PSO and PSU were around 200 times more social than SWTOR is. Wake up and smell the roses.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
people who play on consoles are casual players, they sit in the living room playing a game until dancing with the stars is on.
MMos are for dedicated pc players looking for a virtual word to escape into and be a part of a community, not sit on the couch half asleep while your wife complains that your hogging the tv.
Wow.... way to stereotype... It's like if I write : All PC players are 40 years old virgins that have no social interactions with the real world and live in their parent's basement...
You like it ?
Originally posted by Brunio Console MMOs. There is a reason it isn't tried much. You can see an obviously lower quality MMO.
Dumbing down an MMORPG for console controls is also a likely killer. Most are also forgetting the hardware on consoles completely suck compared to a modern gaming PC.
No. I can see several games doing well on consoles such as FFXIV and Planetside 2, but in the long run the wall will get too tall to jump.
The gameplay of the MMO doesn't have to be dumbed down because of a console, that's just a game with bad devs...
Second, most PC gamers have computers similar or worse than what the PS4 has in terms of hardware. NO, people on MMORPG.com forums are not the average gamer with their GTX Titan and 800$ CPU -_-
Third, I don't know how many times I will have to write this - no one has every played FFXI on a console or what? - YOU CAN PLUG A KEYBOARD AND A MOUSE ON A CONSOLE FOR CHAT AND MENU NAVIGATING... Playing the game feels so much more alive and fun with a controller anyway, try it someday ( with a game that doesn't need 110238 keybinds obviously )
Originally posted by Ozmodan Originally posted by BadSpockWhat a load of crap.First - the "facts" are wrong. FFXIV is releasing on the PS3 as well as PC on Aug 27th - it is releasing on PS4 in 2014 as well. A columnist writing for an MMO site should get their facts together before being published.Second - both PS3 and PS4 and probably 360 and XB1 support USB keyboards, and both PS3 and XB360 have "texting pad" peripherals to enable easy text-based chat. Everyone over the age of 5 and under the age of 60 should be pretty damn good at thumb typing these days.Third - if the comments in this forum, or the millions of dumb ass comments on internet boards across the 'verse and in the general chat of your favorite PC MMO are any indication, the ratio of immature dumb asses to "mature" players is the same on console as it is on PC.About 10,000,000 to 1.Fourth - the idea that having a dozen full hotbars = complexity has been dispelled a million and a half times over, so control scheme is about as valid of an argument as the grand "maturity" of the PC community.Fifth - many, many MMOs are coming to the next gen consoles - you can either continue to bitch and moan like children, or accept the fact that gaming is changing. The kids will never get off your lawn, and no one cares that you walked uphill through the snow both ways.This is all coming from a 25+ year PC AND console gaming veteran, and 13+ year MMO veteran who cut my virtual avatar teeth dodging PK's outside Brittania.
Have to disagree. People who buy consoles do not buy keyboards or mice to any extent. Console people usually use voice, which is fine, but it really breaks any rpg elements of the game.
If you are in any kind of a pvp event and you are playing on a console with a controller and I am on a PC with mouse/keyboard, I will own you all the time. If you notice most game servers do not mix the console people with the PC people for that reason.
Lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll use my controller and you use a kb/mouse /gg
First - the "facts" are wrong. FFXIV is releasing on the PS3 as well as PC on Aug 27th - it is releasing on PS4 in 2014 as well. A columnist writing for an MMO site should get their facts together before being published.
Second - both PS3 and PS4 and probably 360 and XB1 support USB keyboards, and both PS3 and XB360 have "texting pad" peripherals to enable easy text-based chat. Everyone over the age of 5 and under the age of 60 should be pretty damn good at thumb typing these days.
Third - if the comments in this forum, or the millions of dumb ass comments on internet boards across the 'verse and in the general chat of your favorite PC MMO are any indication, the ratio of immature dumb asses to "mature" players is the same on console as it is on PC.
About 10,000,000 to 1.
Fourth - the idea that having a dozen full hotbars = complexity has been dispelled a million and a half times over, so control scheme is about as valid of an argument as the grand "maturity" of the PC community.
Fifth - many, many MMOs are coming to the next gen consoles - you can either continue to bitch and moan like children, or accept the fact that gaming is changing. The kids will never get off your lawn, and no one cares that you walked uphill through the snow both ways.
This is all coming from a 25+ year PC AND console gaming veteran, and 13+ year MMO veteran who cut my virtual avatar teeth dodging PK's outside Brittania.
Have to disagree. People who buy consoles do not buy keyboards or mice to any extent. Console people usually use voice, which is fine, but it really breaks any rpg elements of the game.
If you are in any kind of a pvp event and you are playing on a console with a controller and I am on a PC with mouse/keyboard, I will own you all the time. If you notice most game servers do not mix the console people with the PC people for that reason.
On the contrary, a controller is much more reactive than a keyboard once you're used to it... I bet the good controller player would beat the good keyboard player. Obviously, not in a game where a LOT of spells are required and the interface isn't made for controller
FFXIV has the best controller interface I have ever seen, you can keybind 16 spells to use VERY fast and like 120+ to switch to, very fast too. Go try FFXI:ARR when it gets to Open Beta and you will see a game with a good team that actually thought about their interface for both PC and consoles.
Originally posted by BadSpockWhat a load of crap.First - the "facts" are wrong. FFXIV is releasing on the PS3 as well as PC on Aug 27th - it is releasing on PS4 in 2014 as well. A columnist writing for an MMO site should get their facts together before being published.Second - both PS3 and PS4 and probably 360 and XB1 support USB keyboards, and both PS3 and XB360 have "texting pad" peripherals to enable easy text-based chat. Everyone over the age of 5 and under the age of 60 should be pretty damn good at thumb typing these days.Third - if the comments in this forum, or the millions of dumb ass comments on internet boards across the 'verse and in the general chat of your favorite PC MMO are any indication, the ratio of immature dumb asses to "mature" players is the same on console as it is on PC.About 10,000,000 to 1.Fourth - the idea that having a dozen full hotbars = complexity has been dispelled a million and a half times over, so control scheme is about as valid of an argument as the grand "maturity" of the PC community.Fifth - many, many MMOs are coming to the next gen consoles - you can either continue to bitch and moan like children, or accept the fact that gaming is changing. The kids will never get off your lawn, and no one cares that you walked uphill through the snow both ways.This is all coming from a 25+ year PC AND console gaming veteran, and 13+ year MMO veteran who cut my virtual avatar teeth dodging PK's outside Brittania.
Have to disagree. People who buy consoles do not buy keyboards or mice to any extent. Console people usually use voice, which is fine, but it really breaks any rpg elements of the game.
If you are in any kind of a pvp event and you are playing on a console with a controller and I am on a PC with mouse/keyboard, I will own you all the time. If you notice most game servers do not mix the console people with the PC people for that reason.
Lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll use my controller and you use a kb/mouse /gg
LoL EXACTLY!.. I just don't see why the PC crazies don't get this part. Yea, FPS's we'll give you that one; the whole thing with mouse DPI compared to that of the controllers thumbstick (currently) is advantage mouse / kb.
But when it comes down to games like fighters and several other genre's consoles rule over PC easily. PC gaming is not an absolute and just like Console gamers who purchase kb/mouse. PC gamers purchase gamepads to play certain games with. Would that be consider a console thing? Controller's..
But that's why there are seperate markets each doing their own thing for the longest. It's really now and beyond that are showing how these two can be interchangleable at one point, but when that arrives. Neither will truly be what they are now anyways.
I as a console gamer coming up always understood this about them (consoles), that they are always moving forward and evolving in their space. PC gaming has also seen an evolution through better GFX cards, RAM, Proccessors, and simple as basic design of them. Which of course is the bread and butter for consoles. You really have to be honest and say that more than chance that consoles have also had some influences on PC's. Of course those will not be as direct, but still lessons learned in console development could be applied to PC's.
That why I disagree with the premise that even THIS next-generation of consoles marks some type of end to the whole console market. As outlandish as Microsofts push was for DRM and always online, there are things that are naturally going to come in the comming years as these devices mature and new ideas in design and technollogy become available.
But whatever.. as lame as this statement can be,,,
"Haters gonna hate..."
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Originally posted by Opapanax Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by OzmodanOriginally posted by BadSpockWhat a load of crap.First - the "facts" are wrong. FFXIV is releasing on the PS3 as well as PC on Aug 27th - it is releasing on PS4 in 2014 as well. A columnist writing for an MMO site should get their facts together before being published.Second - both PS3 and PS4 and probably 360 and XB1 support USB keyboards, and both PS3 and XB360 have "texting pad" peripherals to enable easy text-based chat. Everyone over the age of 5 and under the age of 60 should be pretty damn good at thumb typing these days.Third - if the comments in this forum, or the millions of dumb ass comments on internet boards across the 'verse and in the general chat of your favorite PC MMO are any indication, the ratio of immature dumb asses to "mature" players is the same on console as it is on PC.About 10,000,000 to 1.Fourth - the idea that having a dozen full hotbars = complexity has been dispelled a million and a half times over, so control scheme is about as valid of an argument as the grand "maturity" of the PC community.Fifth - many, many MMOs are coming to the next gen consoles - you can either continue to bitch and moan like children, or accept the fact that gaming is changing. The kids will never get off your lawn, and no one cares that you walked uphill through the snow both ways.This is all coming from a 25+ year PC AND console gaming veteran, and 13+ year MMO veteran who cut my virtual avatar teeth dodging PK's outside Brittania.
Have to disagree. People who buy consoles do not buy keyboards or mice to any extent. Console people usually use voice, which is fine, but it really breaks any rpg elements of the game. If you are in any kind of a pvp event and you are playing on a console with a controller and I am on a PC with mouse/keyboard, I will own you all the time. If you notice most game servers do not mix the console people with the PC people for that reason. Lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll use my controller and you use a kb/mouse /ggLoL EXACTLY!.. I just don't see why the PC crazies don't get this part. Yea, FPS's we'll give you that one; the whole thing with mouse DPI compared to that of the controllers thumbstick (currently) is advantage mouse / kb.
But when it comes down to games like fighters and several other genre's consoles rule over PC easily. PC gaming is not an absolute and just like Console gamers who purchase kb/mouse. PC gamers purchase gamepads to play certain games with. Would that be consider a console thing? Controller's..
But that's why there are seperate markets each doing their own thing for the longest. It's really now and beyond that are showing how these two can be interchangleable at one point, but when that arrives. Neither will truly be what they are now anyways.
I as a console gamer coming up always understood this about them (consoles), that they are always moving forward and evolving in their space. PC gaming has also seen an evolution through better GFX cards, RAM, Proccessors, and simple as basic design of them. Which of course is the bread and butter for consoles. You really have to be honest and say that more than chance that consoles have also had some influences on PC's. Of course those will not be as direct, but still lessons learned in console development could be applied to PC's.
That why I disagree with the premise that even THIS next-generation of consoles marks some type of end to the whole console market. As outlandish as Microsofts push was for DRM and always online, there are things that are naturally going to come in the comming years as these devices mature and new ideas in design and technollogy become available.
But whatever.. as lame as this statement can be,,,
"Haters gonna hate..."
I think a lot of pc purists are console haters because they simply missed the opportunity to evolve with the hand coordination of a controller. My dad sticks to his pc and fps because he could never get the hang of pushing multiple buttons at the same time, in a particular order, and in a specific time frame.
The other reason i think pc purists are butt hurt all the time is that they are sitting on superior hardware but simple do not have the sheer amount of AAA quality exclusives that consoles enjoy.
Simple economics will decide this one. The console market has been shrinking and continues to do so with the next gens unlikely to arrest the decline; they just haven't brought enough to the table. The first of the new consoles will debut on store shelves in november, five months away when already the humble PC has far surpassed both the PS4 & XBoxOne in speed, power and capability.
These next gen consoles will limp along for the next five years while all the time underperforming as far as sales go to the extent that I would be surprised if a PS5 or XBoxTwo ever see the light of day. The wheel is once again coming full circle as it did when the consoles of choice were the Atari, Texas Instruments & Intellivision offerings.
So, as far as MMO's go. Yes there will be a few token efforts to port across to the next gens but in the main MMO's will remain within the domain of the more versatile PC.
First - the "facts" are wrong. FFXIV is releasing on the PS3 as well as PC on Aug 27th - it is releasing on PS4 in 2014 as well. A columnist writing for an MMO site should get their facts together before being published.
Second - both PS3 and PS4 and probably 360 and XB1 support USB keyboards, and both PS3 and XB360 have "texting pad" peripherals to enable easy text-based chat. Everyone over the age of 5 and under the age of 60 should be pretty damn good at thumb typing these days.
Third - if the comments in this forum, or the millions of dumb ass comments on internet boards across the 'verse and in the general chat of your favorite PC MMO are any indication, the ratio of immature dumb asses to "mature" players is the same on console as it is on PC.
About 10,000,000 to 1.
Fourth - the idea that having a dozen full hotbars = complexity has been dispelled a million and a half times over, so control scheme is about as valid of an argument as the grand "maturity" of the PC community.
Fifth - many, many MMOs are coming to the next gen consoles - you can either continue to bitch and moan like children, or accept the fact that gaming is changing. The kids will never get off your lawn, and no one cares that you walked uphill through the snow both ways.
This is all coming from a 25+ year PC AND console gaming veteran, and 13+ year MMO veteran who cut my virtual avatar teeth dodging PK's outside Brittania.
You keep telling them BadSpock, all the fallacies, generalizations and stereotypes PC players keep spouting on this site and every other to keep reassuring them selves they are superior to console players are just ridiculous. I have a clue for all the "Superior beings" a lot of console gamers are also pc gamers. PCs are as common as the TV in most homes. These "kids" have grown up with PCs lol. These "kids" learn things in school at a young age that we older people were not even taught until we were in high school or college.
Comments
There's nothing touchy about this subject because it's so fundamental. Consoles are ill suited to MMO's period.
It has nothing to do with computing power, before anyone jumps in with the next gen hardware specs. It's as basic as this, the controller is the limitation. Yes, we see a lot more action oriented MMO's today with fewer hotkeys etc but the social side of MMO's requires a keyboard and very few console players bother with them.
From the current and past examples we've seen of MMO's attempted on consoles we see the same things, cut down versions, restrictions to abilities, crafting, all the things that make an MMO a massive social event and not just a game. Defiance can't even deliver a working chat system FFS! Way to kill the social side of your MMO.
Any move to push the genre onto consoles is a bad idea and the sooner this idea gets dropped the better.
Smile
My theme song.
I read your response and completely disagree. In fact if you read this article, the xbox people at Microsoft agree with me.
http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-against-pc.html
Let's see you back up your statement with some facts. Going to be hard to find them.
BTW I have tested this with my son, who is far better at these shooter games than I am, I pretty much owned him in the games we could go head to head in.
You sound so old fashioned.
I played DCUO on my PS3 and not once did I ever have a issue or not enjoy my experience.
Also while I will admit that console MMOs simplify things, I wouldn't go off and call them lazy. Kinda rude.
I drilled a hole through my wall and played "Poke the wire through 1 feet of wall" game, simply cause I wanted to have my router connected directly for better latency. Was that lazy? Was that easy? Hell no.
People are strapped to their keyboard and mouse and need to start letting go of these concepts. As technology moves forward these stone age tools will not last. Not saying that the gamepad is the future but the mentality behind PC gamers is somewhat silly. As if keyboard/mouse were somehow superior to everything.
FFXIV has made great progress in the gamepad arena. They're ideas are slick and very responsive and fun. Completely capable of doing battle as well anyone else. Talking on the other hand on the gamepad due to no voice chat can be a little difficult. Also your point towards hearing a garbled voice from level 52 elf is hypocrisy given that EVERYONE uses Vent or Mumble or Teamspeak and no one talks inside of a game unless its "LFG for UBRS, no noobz lawlz. KK PST"
In the end. Whatever floats your boat....play it on console....play it on PC, whatever.
I look forward to the day where we will say neither of these things and simply say "Hey lets play our favorite MMORPG!" and suck our brains into the Matrix. :P
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
The distinction between console and PC is, imo, completely nonsense at this point in time. Consoles are nothing but PC's with a different (or, in the case of xbox, modified) operating system.
Other than the fact that consoles are always several generations behind the tech of PC for those of us with the money to throw at regular PC upgrades, there is no real difference. Just artificial ones that exist only due to our own skewed perceptions.
Many people point to mouse+keyboard vs. controller as a distinction, but that's just not the case. A lot of PC gamers have controllers hooked up to their PCs, many console gamers have mouse and keyboard hooked up to their console (In my case, both are true).
Other people point to whether you are sitting at a desk or lounging on a couch as a difference, but again, this is an artificial distinction. Some PC gamers have their PC hooked up to their TV and some console gamers use a computer monitor and not a TV.
At the end of the day, there is no such thing as a "console gamer" or a "PC gamer". There are only "gamers".
I, for one, am looking forward to seeing more MMO choices on console.
Just give me a console to where I can attach a keyboard and a mouse to it and I will be golden.
At this point I think everyone will be picking up both PS4 and Xbox One, however which one will cater more to the PC gamer still remains to be seen.
If everyone jumped ship and went from tower to console, what does that mean for all the graphic card companies like radeon and nvidia? There is talk that PC towers will be obsolete in the near future, but then again rumors are rumors.
I will stick to the PC Tower as long as I can for my gaming needs. I am just too old school and honestly in my elementary school days it was the Atari 2600 and Colecovision, in my young adulthood it was Sega Genesis and the 1st Playstation were the last consoles I really enjoyed.
its not about the console
its about the limitations of the controller
kb+m have more controls
kb+m are more accurate
kb+m are FASTER
the 2nd 2 FACTS are proven by the very companies putting out the consoles...
the controller is a terrible mmo device, its not even that good of a fps device
Consoles nowadays put the vast majority of people PCs to utter shame and in fact companies are likely hindered by not using consoles since they take the punsihment of high performance games better than your avg gamer's comp.
I'm sure with the next gen consoles they will have keyboard adapters and mouse since it's not really rocket science if they haven't already got adapters one can use. People already play MMOs with a controller.
People who hold fast that PC will always be the only option for MMOs are staying in the stone age, consoles nowadays are more like mini comps than anything.
do you actually believe what you typed?
you think MMO companies are HINDERED by PC's...... Don't you think they would have flooded the console market if consoles could perform to the same standard of gameplay required for the average MMO?
I have yet to see a single console controller mmo that is as intense as a kb+m designed mmo.
but please... prove how a gaming pc is outdone by a console in performance.
"All expectation leads to suffering" Buhhda
I agree wholeheartedly with you WellzyC, well met. I do however, like to have my console on the side while the wife is hogging the PC.
or you have the one best friend that is a hardcore console gamer and the good friend you are, you buy it just to play with them. Me and a few of my buddies will be doing this just for "The Division".
While I love the intensity of the arguments, once again I point out that consoles are not The devil, are in fact more powerful that most of your computers. How do I know this?
Because a huge chunk of you layers always cry about compatability issues when new games, tech comes out.
Secondly, there's a lot more people like badspock and i out there, but have more important things to do than spew console hate.
Admit it consoles are up and coming awesomeness. Gaming is changing.
I have a computer that I know kicks ass on most of you out there,have played mmorpg's exclusively for 20 years, pretty much have won EVE as much as a guy can, and love certain games on my console too, nothing like playing game on a 60inch TV.
Bye
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I've been fairly biased towards PC in the past, and haven't purchased a PS2/3 or XBOX (but I do play on they every month or so at friends' places).
However, seeing major titles mix up PC and Console, I'm thinking I will probably buy a PS4 or XBOX One when they come out, and focus less on getting a high-end PC upgraded. The only iff I have with consoles are the controls themselves. For chatting and community I mostly use voice chat, so that doesn't bother me, but I don't really feel how a gamepad can play an MMO...
GoW is brilliant on a PS, but even FFXIV seems a bit over the top with a gamepad compared to a PC.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
so say we all
Firstly I wanted to quote so many people's comments that it would take me about 3 hours work to do so.
So the console MM0 gamer's point of view of all this is this. I am a console MMO veteran , having played PSO for 4 years , PSU for 7 years and a few months of EQOA. That's a total of 11 years of console MMO gaming , of which I played all of them with a keyboard on my lap and a controller in my hand. I find it strange you ( Tingle ) mentioned the PS2 , so why didn't you play EQOA , PSU or even Monster Hunter ? DC , GC ,PS2 and xbox 360 all use USB keyboards. The defiance example ( someone posted ) is a totally garbage representation of what a social MMO actually is , it was their design to have a carp chat system , not the consoles limitations.
So in recent times I did have to swap to a PC for my MMO's ( until a decent one comes out on a console ) World of Tanks , Destiny and a few others should change that fact once again. Guess what I have been doing for the past year and a half ? Playing SWTOR sat on my sofa with a keyboard on my lap and 360 controller in hand , as I have always done. So I just wasted 10 mins of my double xp on SwTOR , better get back to it .
To conclude , MMO's have been and are always going to be on consoles , it's just the lazy dev's have maybe woken up and/or jumped on the bandwagon. Also PSO and PSU were around 200 times more social than SWTOR is. Wake up and smell the roses.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Wow.... way to stereotype... It's like if I write : All PC players are 40 years old virgins that have no social interactions with the real world and live in their parent's basement...
You like it ?
The gameplay of the MMO doesn't have to be dumbed down because of a console, that's just a game with bad devs...
Second, most PC gamers have computers similar or worse than what the PS4 has in terms of hardware. NO, people on MMORPG.com forums are not the average gamer with their GTX Titan and 800$ CPU -_-
Third, I don't know how many times I will have to write this - no one has every played FFXI on a console or what? - YOU CAN PLUG A KEYBOARD AND A MOUSE ON A CONSOLE FOR CHAT AND MENU NAVIGATING... Playing the game feels so much more alive and fun with a controller anyway, try it someday ( with a game that doesn't need 110238 keybinds obviously )
If you are in any kind of a pvp event and you are playing on a console with a controller and I am on a PC with mouse/keyboard, I will own you all the time. If you notice most game servers do not mix the console people with the PC people for that reason.
Lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll use my controller and you use a kb/mouse
/gg
On the contrary, a controller is much more reactive than a keyboard once you're used to it... I bet the good controller player would beat the good keyboard player. Obviously, not in a game where a LOT of spells are required and the interface isn't made for controller
FFXIV has the best controller interface I have ever seen, you can keybind 16 spells to use VERY fast and like 120+ to switch to, very fast too. Go try FFXI:ARR when it gets to Open Beta and you will see a game with a good team that actually thought about their interface for both PC and consoles.
LoL EXACTLY!.. I just don't see why the PC crazies don't get this part. Yea, FPS's we'll give you that one; the whole thing with mouse DPI compared to that of the controllers thumbstick (currently) is advantage mouse / kb.
But when it comes down to games like fighters and several other genre's consoles rule over PC easily. PC gaming is not an absolute and just like Console gamers who purchase kb/mouse. PC gamers purchase gamepads to play certain games with. Would that be consider a console thing? Controller's..
But that's why there are seperate markets each doing their own thing for the longest. It's really now and beyond that are showing how these two can be interchangleable at one point, but when that arrives. Neither will truly be what they are now anyways.
I as a console gamer coming up always understood this about them (consoles), that they are always moving forward and evolving in their space. PC gaming has also seen an evolution through better GFX cards, RAM, Proccessors, and simple as basic design of them. Which of course is the bread and butter for consoles. You really have to be honest and say that more than chance that consoles have also had some influences on PC's. Of course those will not be as direct, but still lessons learned in console development could be applied to PC's.
That why I disagree with the premise that even THIS next-generation of consoles marks some type of end to the whole console market. As outlandish as Microsofts push was for DRM and always online, there are things that are naturally going to come in the comming years as these devices mature and new ideas in design and technollogy become available.
But whatever.. as lame as this statement can be,,,
"Haters gonna hate..."
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll use my controller and you use a kb/mouse /gg
LoL EXACTLY!.. I just don't see why the PC crazies don't get this part. Yea, FPS's we'll give you that one; the whole thing with mouse DPI compared to that of the controllers thumbstick (currently) is advantage mouse / kb.
But when it comes down to games like fighters and several other genre's consoles rule over PC easily. PC gaming is not an absolute and just like Console gamers who purchase kb/mouse. PC gamers purchase gamepads to play certain games with. Would that be consider a console thing? Controller's..
But that's why there are seperate markets each doing their own thing for the longest. It's really now and beyond that are showing how these two can be interchangleable at one point, but when that arrives. Neither will truly be what they are now anyways.
I as a console gamer coming up always understood this about them (consoles), that they are always moving forward and evolving in their space. PC gaming has also seen an evolution through better GFX cards, RAM, Proccessors, and simple as basic design of them. Which of course is the bread and butter for consoles. You really have to be honest and say that more than chance that consoles have also had some influences on PC's. Of course those will not be as direct, but still lessons learned in console development could be applied to PC's.
That why I disagree with the premise that even THIS next-generation of consoles marks some type of end to the whole console market. As outlandish as Microsofts push was for DRM and always online, there are things that are naturally going to come in the comming years as these devices mature and new ideas in design and technollogy become available.
But whatever.. as lame as this statement can be,,,
"Haters gonna hate..."
I think a lot of pc purists are console haters because they simply missed the opportunity to evolve with the hand coordination of a controller. My dad sticks to his pc and fps because he could never get the hang of pushing multiple buttons at the same time, in a particular order, and in a specific time frame.
The other reason i think pc purists are butt hurt all the time is that they are sitting on superior hardware but simple do not have the sheer amount of AAA quality exclusives that consoles enjoy.
Simple economics will decide this one. The console market has been shrinking and continues to do so with the next gens unlikely to arrest the decline; they just haven't brought enough to the table. The first of the new consoles will debut on store shelves in november, five months away when already the humble PC has far surpassed both the PS4 & XBoxOne in speed, power and capability.
These next gen consoles will limp along for the next five years while all the time underperforming as far as sales go to the extent that I would be surprised if a PS5 or XBoxTwo ever see the light of day. The wheel is once again coming full circle as it did when the consoles of choice were the Atari, Texas Instruments & Intellivision offerings.
So, as far as MMO's go. Yes there will be a few token efforts to port across to the next gens but in the main MMO's will remain within the domain of the more versatile PC.
You keep telling them BadSpock, all the fallacies, generalizations and stereotypes PC players keep spouting on this site and every other to keep reassuring them selves they are superior to console players are just ridiculous. I have a clue for all the "Superior beings" a lot of console gamers are also pc gamers. PCs are as common as the TV in most homes. These "kids" have grown up with PCs lol. These "kids" learn things in school at a young age that we older people were not even taught until we were in high school or college.
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