Originally posted by thedood123 Its going to be on PS4 most likely (like 80 percent chance imo) so expect a limited actionbar and probably action combat
Yeah
DCUO combat was a lot of fun.
I'm hoping, like Dullahan, for aiming and positioning to be way more important in EQN.
You listed Neverwinter and ESO as action, yet neither requires you to actually aim. (neverwinter features a lock on when you are fighting that pulls your attacks toward targets and ESO does as well I believe? For magic at least).
I want something new, I grew tired of "tab target" then cycle out the same boring rotations of spells OVER AND OVER AND OVER, that crap got old 10 years ago.
I want something that is actually FUN to play, something that people play because the actual combat gives them enjoyment.
Range and mounted combat like Mount and Blade would be my dream as far as those systems go.
Melee combat like you find in Severance (aka Blade of Darkness). Where it rewards TACTICS and smart play, but it is fun, it actually makes defense important, you need to dodge attacks, block them, etc and you have a great depth of combat move sto pull off which are not stuck on some "hotbar" but all available with very quick and easy hotkey inputs.
Originally posted by Vorthanion Action combat gives me headaches and carpal tunnel syndrome. I will always opt for slower paced combat for those reasons as well as my preference for the importance of character stats over twitch and my preference to play my avatar, not my reflexes.
I feel the same can be said with Tab-target combat - as managing 20-30 skills filling up your UI and just managing cooldowns and rotations can cause me headaches.
I prefer to rely on my skill rather than random numbers and dice rolls.
I'm sorry that my play style seems to offend your sensibilities. I was merely responding to the poll and stating my reason. I fail to see how it would come across as a challenge to your preference.
Lets not derail this poll but your right, it is your opinion and your preference even if some of us disagree with it.
There's nothing to disagree with. This is a poll about preference, not which is better than the other. That's why I took issue with the way he framed my comment as if it were an attack.
I've really enjoyed GW2's combat...it seems to be the perfect mix imo. I also really like Vindictus/Dragon Nest combat but that might be a bit too intense for long play sessions.
TERA has a very odd combat system that is kind of like Dragon Nest but not as straight forward.
I'm done with stand toe to toe heavily restricted tab target combat on a massive GCD. I suppose it would be possible to make a tab target system that still involved a lot of movement and tactics...I would be on board with that as well.
Edit: I still think combat isn't the end all be all. Although if your game offers nothing new or outside the traditional WoW model (I know this won't be the case with EQN just wanted to say this) you better have damn good combat.
I don't wanna see the same old MMORPG typical combat that we see in WoW, EQ already, why the hell do people want that crap again? Its not even skill based.
I think the combat should be sort of similar to skyrim but tweaked more to make it skill based. Shooting spells should be like an fps and melee combat would have controls for block and their would be a variety of sword attacks, melee combat could be sort of similar to Chilvary Medieval Warfare. There should also be an optional first person view, combat like this would be very intense and more immersive than any mmo out today.
That's the whole point. Gamers like me want it to be about the avatar, not twitch. Nothing wrong with twitch, I do it on occasion in my shooter and rts games, but when it comes to rpgs, I love me some turn based / stat based combat.
I am open to either tab target or action as long as it has a limited hot bar. Seriously tired of a screen full of skills. I would much rather build a deck of skills for the appropriate situation I will be in. If it is tab target though, I would hope for a forced first person view.
Originally posted by Vorthanion Action combat gives me headaches and carpal tunnel syndrome. I will always opt for slower paced combat for those reasons as well as my preference for the importance of character stats over twitch and my preference to play my avatar, not my reflexes.
I feel the same can be said with Tab-target combat - as managing 20-30 skills filling up your UI and just managing cooldowns and rotations can cause me headaches.
I prefer to rely on my skill rather than random numbers and dice rolls.
I'm sorry that my play style seems to offend your sensibilities. I was merely responding to the poll and stating my reason. I fail to see how it would come across as a challenge to your preference.
Sorry, just giving my personal opinion on the matter, just as your post.
It was more of my personal rebuttal toward your seemingly negative attitude toward action-combat.
The only negativity in my comment was how action combat affects me. I in no way impugned the mechanic itself nor it's viability in gaming. You inferred that with your comment while quoting mine.
Since when did 'action combat' denote third-person shooter or first-person shooter? Action games have had press the button to target for a very long time. GW2 is an action combat system. I wish it didn't have so much dodging though, yikes.
I think a Guild Wars 2 system with an actual resource system and without all the dodging would be interesting. A Rogue should be able to dodge far better than any Wizard could.
Since when did 'action combat' denote third-person shooter or first-person shooter? Action games have had press the button to target for a very long time. GW2 is an action combat system. I wish it didn't have so much dodging though, yikes.
I think a Guild Wars 2 system with an actual resource system and without all the dodging would be interesting. A Rogue should be able to dodge far better than any Wizard could.
Guild Wars 2 is a hybrid.
"Action" combat to most people, at least "full action" combat, is when you aren't hand held, there's a need to actually aim, dodging attacks or blocking them is possible.
GW2 was half in and half it, and becaus eof this the combat feels extremely sloppy and "floaty."
Tera is more action then GW2 is, because you can actually dodge attacks/have to aim things.
This doesn't mean you can't have some form of Soft lock, plenty of good third-person action adventure have this kind of feature, but it NEEDS to allow for dodging/blocking and things still. This is something that Severance did extremely well by having it so that when you did an attack, the animation played out in the specific direction you were facing, so if the enemy reads your move quick enough they can dodge or block it, it wasn't like a hard lock where your attacks were "carried" to your target.
Only thing I can say is that they have to go for one and not in between.
If you're going to do action, do it, go full action, remove the hotbar and just make it action combat.
If you're going to do tab, go full tab like EQ. Make it slow and tactical.
I'm not a fan of the systems that can't decide what they want to be.
Removing a hotbar also removes any choice in having alternate skills. Basically the game becomes left louse button till dead. IMO a very boring game design and one of the reasons why I never enjoyed games that featured that in older RPG's.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
The same as EQ and EQ2, since it has been the best combat system, and no global cool downs. Makes for a very active combat when it comes to spell rotations etc.
Action based targetting including heals, with atleast 2 dozen skills preferably more.. and the advanced trinnity
I would welcome the advanced trinity with open arms. Instead of having pure DPS (the most abundant demographic) you would have healers, tanks, buffers/debuffers, Pullers, Crowd controllers, or any other that I can't think of right now. In that system DPS wouldn't be an issue and you wouldn't need to design boss enounters with eleventy billion hit points.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
"soft" aiming might be a good compromise, where your skill level does affect the aiming result, but where aiming does still count for something. somehow tying together both rpg and twitch systems in a new way. (we are playing an rpg after all and not everyone has superadhd twitch skillz.)
but mainly i want cover, position, crouching, etc., to count for something. i dont want a spell to hit me behind a boulder.
perhaps i am suggesting, for the broadest appeal, a "soft twitch" system.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If its a sci-fi or modern themed game where long range projectiles are primary weapons in combat than its got to be action. I wish combat and camera view would be like Mass Effect 1s where you could also use a lot of different biotic and technical powers but would be more if it was ever an mmo. If its fantasy which im very sick of now i would like it to be similar to elder scrolls.
This is why im looking forward to The Division and Destiny out of all mmos.
Strategy and tactics reign supreme.Classes that a non thinker can play but which offer surprising depth when someone pushes hard on what the class has to offer. Terrain that reinforces the need for people to think .
I thought its already been confirmed gameplay (or combat as you word it) is going to be more like Everquest 1? I don't think it'll be the new school mechanics like Neverwinter/Tera, that I dont even find that great anyways. I always laugh when some big red circle is like "HEY BRO YOU BETTER USE YOUR DODGE ROLL TO GET OUT OF THE WAY"
I don't wanna see the same old MMORPG typical combat that we see in WoW, EQ already, why the hell do people want that crap again? Its not even skill based.
I think the combat should be sort of similar to skyrim but tweaked more to make it skill based. Shooting spells should be like an fps and melee combat would have controls for block and their would be a variety of sword attacks, melee combat could be sort of similar to Chilvary Medieval Warfare. There should also be an optional first person view, combat like this would be very intense and more immersive than any mmo out today.
I don't really see how tab-targeting is any longer the "same old" anything, since most new mmos being released are using some form of action combat. In 3 years time we're going to start here about how we don't want the "same old" action combat of *fill in the blank* game. Kind of like sandbox games today, we don't want the "same old" themepark, we now want the even older UO clone.
Real Time Combat & Real Time Evasion of even LoS Spells and an immersive sense your fighting powerful cunning Monsters that work together and remove the ridiculous level based system and put in skill based system and make Raid Mobs so huge and powerful they wipe out groups of players and Raids would comprise of upwards to a hundred of players and collateral damage from AoE attacks and spells (even to teammates and allies) would occur and destroy buildings and nature. Item damage and repair/restoration would be a factor as weapons are used and armor gets damaged as does clothing and other things.
Comments
Yeah
DCUO combat was a lot of fun.
I'm hoping, like Dullahan, for aiming and positioning to be way more important in EQN.
Umm, where's the REAL action combat choice?
You listed Neverwinter and ESO as action, yet neither requires you to actually aim. (neverwinter features a lock on when you are fighting that pulls your attacks toward targets and ESO does as well I believe? For magic at least).
I want something new, I grew tired of "tab target" then cycle out the same boring rotations of spells OVER AND OVER AND OVER, that crap got old 10 years ago.
I want something that is actually FUN to play, something that people play because the actual combat gives them enjoyment.
Range and mounted combat like Mount and Blade would be my dream as far as those systems go.
Melee combat like you find in Severance (aka Blade of Darkness). Where it rewards TACTICS and smart play, but it is fun, it actually makes defense important, you need to dodge attacks, block them, etc and you have a great depth of combat move sto pull off which are not stuck on some "hotbar" but all available with very quick and easy hotkey inputs.
Tab Target Please. If its not broke, dont fix it.
After plunking away on 20 years of RPGs, every flavor under the sun...
I can honestly say it's the least important "what if", to me, that I've seen polled thus far.
I'll take either the traditional "unlimited" hotbar and tab target or "unlimited" and action combat..
The more hotbars you have usually means more skills for your character to unlock and use.The more skills you get the more fun it is.
There's nothing to disagree with. This is a poll about preference, not which is better than the other. That's why I took issue with the way he framed my comment as if it were an attack.
I've really enjoyed GW2's combat...it seems to be the perfect mix imo. I also really like Vindictus/Dragon Nest combat but that might be a bit too intense for long play sessions.
TERA has a very odd combat system that is kind of like Dragon Nest but not as straight forward.
I'm done with stand toe to toe heavily restricted tab target combat on a massive GCD. I suppose it would be possible to make a tab target system that still involved a lot of movement and tactics...I would be on board with that as well.
Edit: I still think combat isn't the end all be all. Although if your game offers nothing new or outside the traditional WoW model (I know this won't be the case with EQN just wanted to say this) you better have damn good combat.
That's the whole point. Gamers like me want it to be about the avatar, not twitch. Nothing wrong with twitch, I do it on occasion in my shooter and rts games, but when it comes to rpgs, I love me some turn based / stat based combat.
Action based targetting including heals, with atleast 2 dozen skills preferably more.. and the advanced trinnity
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The only negativity in my comment was how action combat affects me. I in no way impugned the mechanic itself nor it's viability in gaming. You inferred that with your comment while quoting mine.
Since when did 'action combat' denote third-person shooter or first-person shooter? Action games have had press the button to target for a very long time. GW2 is an action combat system. I wish it didn't have so much dodging though, yikes.
I think a Guild Wars 2 system with an actual resource system and without all the dodging would be interesting. A Rogue should be able to dodge far better than any Wizard could.
I chose Tab, but I would be fine with something up to like TSW type combat.
I really dislike when you lose mouse aim control, I couldn't log out of NW fast enough, for more than that, but that didn't help.
Guild Wars 2 is a hybrid.
"Action" combat to most people, at least "full action" combat, is when you aren't hand held, there's a need to actually aim, dodging attacks or blocking them is possible.
GW2 was half in and half it, and becaus eof this the combat feels extremely sloppy and "floaty."
Tera is more action then GW2 is, because you can actually dodge attacks/have to aim things.
This doesn't mean you can't have some form of Soft lock, plenty of good third-person action adventure have this kind of feature, but it NEEDS to allow for dodging/blocking and things still. This is something that Severance did extremely well by having it so that when you did an attack, the animation played out in the specific direction you were facing, so if the enemy reads your move quick enough they can dodge or block it, it wasn't like a hard lock where your attacks were "carried" to your target.
I can't decide.
Only thing I can say is that they have to go for one and not in between.
If you're going to do action, do it, go full action, remove the hotbar and just make it action combat.
If you're going to do tab, go full tab like EQ. Make it slow and tactical.
I'm not a fan of the systems that can't decide what they want to be.
Removing a hotbar also removes any choice in having alternate skills. Basically the game becomes left louse button till dead. IMO a very boring game design and one of the reasons why I never enjoyed games that featured that in older RPG's.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Killing dragons is my shit
I would welcome the advanced trinity with open arms. Instead of having pure DPS (the most abundant demographic) you would have healers, tanks, buffers/debuffers, Pullers, Crowd controllers, or any other that I can't think of right now. In that system DPS wouldn't be an issue and you wouldn't need to design boss enounters with eleventy billion hit points.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
"soft" aiming might be a good compromise, where your skill level does affect the aiming result, but where aiming does still count for something. somehow tying together both rpg and twitch systems in a new way. (we are playing an rpg after all and not everyone has superadhd twitch skillz.)
but mainly i want cover, position, crouching, etc., to count for something. i dont want a spell to hit me behind a boulder.
perhaps i am suggesting, for the broadest appeal, a "soft twitch" system.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If its a sci-fi or modern themed game where long range projectiles are primary weapons in combat than its got to be action. I wish combat and camera view would be like Mass Effect 1s where you could also use a lot of different biotic and technical powers but would be more if it was ever an mmo. If its fantasy which im very sick of now i would like it to be similar to elder scrolls.
This is why im looking forward to The Division and Destiny out of all mmos.
I don't really see how tab-targeting is any longer the "same old" anything, since most new mmos being released are using some form of action combat. In 3 years time we're going to start here about how we don't want the "same old" action combat of *fill in the blank* game. Kind of like sandbox games today, we don't want the "same old" themepark, we now want the even older UO clone.
Real Time Combat & Real Time Evasion of even LoS Spells and an immersive sense your fighting powerful cunning Monsters that work together and remove the ridiculous level based system and put in skill based system and make Raid Mobs so huge and powerful they wipe out groups of players and Raids would comprise of upwards to a hundred of players and collateral damage from AoE attacks and spells (even to teammates and allies) would occur and destroy buildings and nature. Item damage and repair/restoration would be a factor as weapons are used and armor gets damaged as does clothing and other things.
One can wish can't they?