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Poll: Combat style you wish to see in EQN?

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Comments

  • Trudge34Trudge34 Member UncommonPosts: 392
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    I am open to either tab target or action as long as it has a limited hot bar. Seriously tired of a screen full of skills. I would much rather build a deck of skills for the appropriate situation I will be in. If it is tab target though, I would hope for a forced first person view.

    Something we agree on! High five! Lol.

    I don't think it ever made sense to me when someone can have 80 skills up at once that they cycle through during combat. You watch a movie, do you really see these guys doing a million different moves each time? Nah, they have a few different types of attacks, some kind of bash / kick / slam whatever and that's it. Bring back the limited skill set but make a lot of the skills situational and meaningful. Not just something like "Well...this is a Druid DoT called Drones of Doom, we'll rename it Hamstrung and give it to the Warrior and make it do the same thing. Then we'll make 50 more of them."

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
    Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
    Currently Playing: GW2

    Nytlok Sylas
    80 Sylvari Ranger

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207

    I prefer a mix of the 2 much like GW2. 

    What i don't want to see is this shit ever again.

     

    2 or 3 full bars is plenty.  Any more and you're managing the UI instead of playing the game.

  • DeathByCactusDeathByCactus Member Posts: 36

    I'd be rather disappointed if it was tab targeting. I couldn't stand GW2 and tab target anymore after a short time with Tera. Heck, the action combat is the only thing that keeps me interested in Neverwinter (horribly linear and boring game of follow the glowing dust btw but the GF loves it).

     

    I'd hope for an action combat, limited hot bar design with spell gems. Something where I do NOT have to manage 3 full hot bars of spells/abilities and fire them off in rapid order like WoW. That was one of the things that immediately turned me off from the game. Yea, action combat with EQ 1 style hotbars/spell gems would be awesome. As a project1999 veteran and EQ vet, it's utterly boring.... FD, auto attack, flying kick, fk, fk, fk, fk, pull, aa, fd, fk, fk, fk, fk, etc. At least, when playing melee. Casters/Priests get to change it up a bit but, would like to do more then... /stand, target mob, alt+2, alt+3, target player, alt+6, /sit.

     

    I'd just like to be more involved and not have to micro manage 1000 abilities.

  • Trudge34Trudge34 Member UncommonPosts: 392
    Originally posted by DeathByCactus

    I'd be rather disappointed if it was tab targeting. I couldn't stand GW2 and tab target anymore after a short time with Tera. Heck, the action combat is the only thing that keeps me interested in Neverwinter (horribly linear and boring game of follow the glowing dust btw but the GF loves it).

     

    I'd hope for an action combat, limited hot bar design with spell gems. Something where I do NOT have to manage 3 full hot bars of spells/abilities and fire them off in rapid order like WoW. That was one of the things that immediately turned me off from the game. Yea, action combat with EQ 1 style hotbars/spell gems would be awesome. As a project1999 veteran and EQ vet, it's utterly boring.... FD, auto attack, flying kick, fk, fk, fk, fk, pull, aa, fd, fk, fk, fk, fk, etc. At least, when playing melee. Casters/Priests get to change it up a bit but, would like to do more then... /stand, target mob, alt+2, alt+3, target player, alt+6, /sit.

     

    I'd just like to be more involved and not have to micro manage 1000 abilities.

    TERA does have some pretty awesome combat. It's about the only thing that has tme logging in every once in a while still. I love that it still has a limited hotbar, no locking other than a select few ranged attacks, and all the skills are tactical, situational skills. I wouldn't be disappointed with a system like that, although I prefer something that voice chat is not a necessity since I like to do other things than listen in on game chat the whole time while I'm playing. Much prefer the text chat that I can take in as I please and can get to it. Liked EQ's chat where you could create a few different windows for different chats. You get more than a few people talking on voice chat and it's unusable.

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
    Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
    Currently Playing: GW2

    Nytlok Sylas
    80 Sylvari Ranger

  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 431

    I would prefer not to have the EQ2 style where you needed mountains of hotbars to keep the massive amount of abilities you had up, but I'm not interested in being forced into 1-2 hotbars either

    I have no issues with tab targeting. 

    Now can we stop all this pointless UI debate and get back to arguing about if the game will be FFA PVP or not?

  • StilerStiler Member Posts: 599
    Originally posted by aspekx

    "soft" aiming might be a good compromise, where your skill level does affect the aiming result, but where aiming does still count for something. somehow tying together both rpg and twitch systems in a new way.  (we are playing an rpg after all and not everyone has superadhd twitch skillz.)

     

    but mainly i want cover, position, crouching, etc., to count for something. i dont want a spell to hit me behind a boulder.

     

    perhaps i am suggesting, for the broadest appeal, a "soft twitch" system.

    Mount and Blade does this very well imo.

    your characters skill has affects on your aiming, but it doesn't affect the "need" for you to still aim.

     

    Basically the skil your character has with a bow and various stats changes things such as how long your crosshair stays "small," as you hold the bow back the crosshair (after so long) gets larger and larger the longer you hold your bow (because holding a bow takes strength and tires you out). So with better stats your character can hold the aim better/longer.

    As well you can also tie in "sway" affects, where the more skilled your character becomeos the less sway you have when aiming and other things.

    Then you can have other skills that can impact combat.

    Like with a Bow for example. A character with a higher strength can pull the string back and hold it longer, they can fire high draw weight bows that can have a greater impact.

    However a character with high agility might be able to nock his arrows faster, be able to reload much quicker, but he won't be able to keep his aim held for as long and can't draw as great a weight on the bows.

    This allows for your character to still impact combat, and affect how you lpay, but it doesn't outright remove the player skill part of free aiming or anything either.

     

    Edit - Also if there is a hotbar of any kind, I actually prefer the Guild Wars 1 style. Where your hot bar had a set amount of skills and you had to actually pick which skills you wanted to use in combat. This allows for people within the same class to play quite differently and makes each skill more important. You don't get a lot of over-lapping +dmg and redudant skills that usually fill up hotbars in most mmo's.

     

    To me I prefer quality over quanity, give me a good solid set of limited skilsl that have a much greater depth and use then a hotbar of 30+ skills taking up half of my screen space that I may use once in a blue moon .

  • kellian1kellian1 Member UncommonPosts: 238
    Originally posted by Alders

    I prefer a mix of the 2 much like GW2. 

    What i don't want to see is this shit ever again.

     

    2 or 3 full bars is plenty.  Any more and you're managing the UI instead of playing the game.

    *cringe* the horrible memories.....

  • hMJemhMJem Member Posts: 465

    Personally, I dont think the "action oriented" combat is that great in MMOs like Neverwinter/Tera.

     

    Also, it makes the PvP really bad. At first glance you'd think "Well, that looks like it'd be fun for PvP" but if this game does have PvP, those "action oriented" ones are terrible in PvP, especially Neverwinter. Also Neverwinter has a huge flaw in that you're rooted to the ground for everything you do pretty much. There really isnt that much movement unless you're trying to look cool and just run around.

  • DaranarDaranar Member UncommonPosts: 392
    None of the above, because you clumped EQ/WOW together and that makes 0 sense to me.  WoW you had to line up a billion skills to constantly mash in your hotbar, while EQ you lined up macros that you used at different times, relying primarily on your auto attack or meditating as a caster.   I hope we get a slower pace combat like EQ1 that puts positioning, aggro control, mana conservation at the forefront.   I also don't even care or want to see combat at the forefront of the game.   So many games focus on this "Action Combat" and end up having sub-par crafting, politics, social systems (can't type/communicate when you are button smashing).   I see too many Action Combat games that leave little room for managing a build and the importance of stats.   I'd like to see EQ get back away from this action combat and liner tiered gear and make me choose between stats in gear instead of blinding stacking 1 primary stat.   In EQ, before they got into linear tiered gear, you sometimes had to choose between WIS, Mana, Mana regen, etc...   Now all I see in games is stack 1 stat and constantly hit your skills.

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  • nennafirnennafir Member UncommonPosts: 313
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Fighting game style combat with deep interrupt/break system and team based combos.

    Hey one can dream right?

    That would be my dream combat system in a MMO - hasn't been done yet, and I know that EQN won't have it - but hey it's a poll so why not?

    In reality I'd love to see an aim-based system that is takes away HP bars and Health pools - something based on hit boxes and internal dmg to systems like in real life.

    I mean when you punch somebody in RL there's no 100dmg floating above their head - the entire "single HP pool"  based system that ALL MMOs use is something that I'd like to see done away with, and replaced with "tissue/muscle/bone/limb/body part/concussion etc..." dmg system - nobody has done this yet.

     

    +1 This would be awesome.

  • nennafirnennafir Member UncommonPosts: 313
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Edit - Also if there is a hotbar of any kind, I actually prefer the Guild Wars 1 style. Where your hot bar had a set amount of skills and you had to actually pick which skills you wanted to use in combat. This allows for people within the same class to play quite differently and makes each skill more important. You don't get a lot of over-lapping +dmg and redudant skills that usually fill up hotbars in most mmo's.

     

    This only worked in GW1 though because there was such a great variety of skills to choose from.

    From my experience with, say, Neverwinter, sometimes you get limited bars and not really that much to put on it anyway.

    The limited bar approach would be fine for me IF like in GW1 there were a great variety of things you could put in the slots.  If there is hardly anything to put in the slots, the limited bar just sucks.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    I've enjoyed all kinds of MMO combat.  I currenty play both EQ2 (old school tab-target system) and Neverwinter (modern action-combat) and i quite enjoy both.  I find the Neverwinter combat very intense and visceral, but at the same time, it gets quite repetitive and doesn't have nearly the complexity or versatility of EQ2's combat.  So, i'm ok with either or a mix of both.  Probably the game where i enjoyed combat the most was Tabula Rasa and it was a mix of tab targetting and FPS weapon-switching controls - tons of fun.

     

    I know the one thing that i absolutely DO NOT want in my combat system and that is a global cooldown.  That is an absolutely HORRID invention and whoever decided to add it to MMOs needs to be fired from ever designing anything again in his life.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

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  • PreparedPrepared Member UncommonPosts: 103
    Originally posted by Dullahan

    After playing EQ since 1999 off and on (mostly on), playing games like Tera, Wushu and NW2 just makes the old combat systems look like trash.

    Anyone who hasn't played a few of those games with action combat needs to see what its like, because its like comparing a horse and cart to an automobile.  

    I also like the fact that these games are starting to limited the amount of abilities you will use at any one time, so you don't need 6-8 hotbars.  I'm not sure if thats what you meant by limited hotbar support, but I find combat like AoW and NW2 to be far more fun and the combat to be much more compelling and entertaining.

    My choice would be combat like Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or Darkfall.  Action combat is a step in the right direction, even if we don't yet aim at our targets.

     

    Interesting...

     

    You are comparing the old style of action combat to the new style of targeting with a key such as tab.  Typical of most in the genre that believes action combat is newer.  Veterans of MMOs and gaming in general know that action combat existed in games much longer than tab targeting did.  The reason is because first person shooters were created long before the first 3D MMORPG, Everquest in 1999.

    Tab targeting is far superior in MMORPGs because of the speed which a player can target versus using a mouse to move a targeting symbol.  It makes sense that most prefer the tab targeting method over the older action combat method.

     

     

     

  • meadmoonmeadmoon Member UncommonPosts: 1,344

    It's hard to decide, but I'm going with 'none of the above'.

    Combat in MMOs is pretty much this anyway:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=19xQ_aCaEFU

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521

    Reticle based for future motion swing combat (see Dave's comment about armbands and google glass).

     

    As far as abilities go I think having 30 or so is fine but not all shown at the same time.  Have 12 or so main attacks and then via procs, reactives and situationals use the UI to manage additional abilities that you only see when applicable.  Not only would this enable console/PC to use the same UI but it would be less cluttered while offering greater diversity than what we have right now.

     

    I think this could work with EQN very well since there has been talk of greater AI.  If mobs have a more diverse range of abilites against players that would mean more "situational" reactions from the system listed above.  If you can fight the same mob 10 times and have the fight flow differently in each I'd say that's revolutionary.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by Alders

    I prefer a mix of the 2 much like GW2. 

    What i don't want to see is this shit ever again.

     

    2 or 3 full bars is plenty.  Any more and you're managing the UI instead of playing the game.

    wth

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    hopefully they have macros .  Rift is pretty good like that
  • ScalplessScalpless Member UncommonPosts: 1,426
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Edit - Also if there is a hotbar of any kind, I actually prefer the Guild Wars 1 style. Where your hot bar had a set amount of skills and you had to actually pick which skills you wanted to use in combat. This allows for people within the same class to play quite differently and makes each skill more important. You don't get a lot of over-lapping +dmg and redudant skills that usually fill up hotbars in most mmo's.

     

    This only worked in GW1 though because there was such a great variety of skills to choose from.

    From my experience with, say, Neverwinter, sometimes you get limited bars and not really that much to put on it anyway.

    The limited bar approach would be fine for me IF like in GW1 there were a great variety of things you could put in the slots.  If there is hardly anything to put in the slots, the limited bar just sucks.

    It also only worked in GW1 because the entire game was focused on respecing constantly. "Oh, I'm going to visit some Ice Elementals. Guess I'll take some caster hate. Oh, I'm going to PvP instead? Just wait a sec, I'll open my build manager and choose one the ten PvP builds I have." One of the PvP modes even revolved around making builds out of random skill packs.

    GW1 had the best character development I've seen in an MMO, but I highly doubt any dev will have the guts to reproduce it. Even the ones that (kind of) tried - Funcom with TSW and ANet with GW2 - watered the system down noticeably or screwed it up in one way or another.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219

     

     

    I think Combat might be the most impressive feature of EQ:N. They are using the same engine as described on PS2 webpage:

     

    ForgeLight was created from the ground up to support the complex environments, fast-paced combat and vibrant colors of Sony Online Entertainment's next generation of online games.

    • Massive Seamless Worlds (incl. EQ:N)
    • No more Zones - level you've never seen before
    • Amazing graphics engine (most powerful: Real Time Radiosity)
    • Designed to scale from 5yro comp to new comps
    • Atmosphere effects eg sunlight, smoke/fog effects and graphical fidelity is flexible.
    • Most amazing characters and environments in mmo or single player game (expressive faces)
    • Nvidia physics rag-doll, character interact with environment
    • Vehicle physics bumping around
    • destructable environments in a fantasy mmo.
    • Supports massive player battles -

    It's robust enough to stay looking pretty while there's 2,000 on a server with 200 on the screen, which you "just can't do" with other MMOs and achieve 60 FPS. The engine can scale easily.

     

    ===>>> Seems like a true NEXT-GEN Engine for everquest NEXTimage

     

    Actiony-Combat with physics seems biggest guess to glean - maybe similar feel to PS2 only with more fantasy ie speed of avatars and numbers on screen and destructable environments.

    No wonder MMORPG.COM was impressed! image

  • sanshi44sanshi44 Member UncommonPosts: 1,187
    I would like to see tab target personaly because being in Australia the Ping realy screws u over for any action based combat. Personaly i would like to see less spell/skill that people r use to nowadays kinda like EQ1 where you could only have 8 spell up at a time so u need to choose what spell would be best to use for the situation.
  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,029
    Gonna be an offensive tank. Don't care if my dps spot can be filled with a caster more efficiently. Probably going to be another button masher but hey who knows.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Edit - Also if there is a hotbar of any kind, I actually prefer the Guild Wars 1 style. Where your hot bar had a set amount of skills and you had to actually pick which skills you wanted to use in combat. This allows for people within the same class to play quite differently and makes each skill more important. You don't get a lot of over-lapping +dmg and redudant skills that usually fill up hotbars in most mmo's.

     

    This only worked in GW1 though because there was such a great variety of skills to choose from.

    From my experience with, say, Neverwinter, sometimes you get limited bars and not really that much to put on it anyway.

    The limited bar approach would be fine for me IF like in GW1 there were a great variety of things you could put in the slots.  If there is hardly anything to put in the slots, the limited bar just sucks.

    Opinion on your part though.  I have 4 level 60's in Neverwinter and I am always mixing and changing skills based on particular situations.  The only negative about Neverwinter's skill system is that I wish I had a couple more slots.  GW1 ( a game I didn't like) had it right, 8 slots is about perfect.

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  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Fighting game style combat with deep interrupt/break system and team based combos.

    Hey one can dream right?

    That would be my dream combat system in a MMO - hasn't been done yet, and I know that EQN won't have it - but hey it's a poll so why not?

    In reality I'd love to see an aim-based system that is takes away HP bars and Health pools - something based on hit boxes and internal dmg to systems like in real life.

    I mean when you punch somebody in RL there's no 100dmg floating above their head - the entire "single HP pool"  based system that ALL MMOs use is something that I'd like to see done away with, and replaced with "tissue/muscle/bone/limb/body part/concussion etc..." dmg system - nobody has done this yet.

     

    I would loooooove a Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat / Marvel Vs Capcom MMO. Go into battle and then it turns into a fighting game. Someone must make this!

  • sirphobossirphobos Member UncommonPosts: 620
    As long as the game is fun, I'm not terribly concerned about the combat system.  That being said, while I don't mind a limited set of abilities (like EQ1 was originally), limiting too much (like Neverwinter) really dulls the game down IMO.
  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Originally posted by Alders

    I prefer a mix of the 2 much like GW2. 

    What i don't want to see is this shit ever again.

     

    2 or 3 full bars is plenty.  Any more and you're managing the UI instead of playing the game.

    Why you no macro?

    Seriously, my ranger had 4 macros that covered the entire damage rotation. Including the stealth combos. The clicky items did get a bit ridiculous, I think they took up 80% of my hotbars.   

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