Thank god they will not listen to you people who want another themepark with housing, in a world with no risk reward, where you are safe to insult act an ass and not get touched because you don't consent.
that's what that statement means to me.
The problem I have with statements like this is it infers that gamers will be civil. Full on PvP has always degraded into a gankfest to the point where you cant focus on exploring. That may be fun for some but its not fun to me. I agree with separate PvP and PvE servers. If you want to PvP? Get on your own server and gank to your hearts content.
Why do you insist everything but PvP (what you want) at the cost of what other (different playstyle) gamers might want?
Sounds selfish to me, but I could be wrong.
Replace that c would a w. If you think full on PVP degrades into a gank fest check EVE-Online, there's even a multi-bloc war happening right now due to a recent change in the value of certain commodities in an expansion and that's led to the guys who had the monopoly on the last most valuable commodity to declare war on former allies to claim the new most valuable and it's backfired spectacularly on them for some very interesting reasons, all this while people like me in (relatively) safe zones go about our business without so much as a skipped beat, sure some price fluctuations happen due to the materiel being consumed in that war but... most market players are also jizzing themselves at the profits they're making supplying the war.
Granted EVE-Online may also be that single unique game that makes full on PVP work...but I view those odds as being the same as the odds of humanity being born from a set of circumstances unique to the entire universe (bloody remote).
Generally when you roll on a PvP server there is a message displayed warning you of PvP. If this game has that & you accept the terms, you are consenting to PvP.
Even if there is only one server & it has that disclaimer, it is consensual & not forced.
I find it amusing to read the many replies that basically say "All we want is more PvP!". Then I see the sub numbers for every game that has it. Then I laugh and laugh. If you took a series of averages, given a PvP game and its population, and then its pop bleed, and then its percentage of forum users versus regular gamers...at least a few of these people on this very board are screaming about wanting PvP and then quitting every time they get it.
Op.... I hate to burst your bubble but all that twitter post states is that whatever system they do go for will be well designed in their mind, if this means PVP and PVE will exist in the same world at the same time or not isn't up for debate yet as this is neither a confirmation or a statement negating it, it is merely a statement to the effect "We are building something we feel is well built." which in the context of what many, many PVP detractors ignorantly state about PVP (IE that sociopaths love it when it is OW PVP and that no game would ever work with non-consensual PVP) is pretty much a neutral statement.
TL;DR: The guy said for people to have faith in the developers, that is all.
I would argue that a design that alienates the huge majority of it's player base can be considered objectively bad design.
I will continue pointing to EVE until people get it through their thick opinions that OW PVP can work if done right. Thus if one example of the contrary exists it isn't "objectively bad design" but "subjectively bad design" and as for the huge majority... per the poll in one of the threads on mmorpg.com the people who want PVP in their game in equal part as PVE (not Open World but in equal part which could mean a very well built version of Open World) is about 1.5 times the size of people who just want a PVE experience so the "huge majority" bit of the equation goes out the window as well.
You point to one sci-fi game that managed to get a decent player base and I can point to a half dozen ambitious fantasy titles that tried to be the same as eve and failed horribly.
Also the polls showed that the people who want EQN to be PVE only / only care about PVE we're about 100% bigger in population per poll. Sometimes more.
Huge majority indeed. I might be in the minority camp, but at least I can admit it.
Pulling numbers out of arse and pointing to games made by people who had no idea what they wanted besides OW PVP is a sure fire way to disprove the argument that EVE as a scion of OW PVP works, it isn't a decent playerbase, it is a growing playerbase in a shrinking P2P market where space sims aren't that rare.
Add the percentage of sandbox both and sandbox pvp, lets do you a favour and not add in half the people from themepark both whom will jump at the chance of a sandbox both with decent combat.
Holy crap, that's awesome. Looks like there are quite a few fans of "sandbox both".
Originally posted by stayBlind PvE servers and PvP servers are great and all, but why does everyone assume that there will be more than one server?
Not going to happen, a single server is too vulnerable.
The lead coder on EQNext was the lead coder on EQ.
In EQ they used zone servers.
Zone A,B,C,D is on server 1
Zone D,F,G,H is on server 2
And a log-in server.
The benefit of this is that when Server 1 goes down, all players in zone A,B,C,D get thrown to bind, and the EQ servers don't go down.
They will likely use something similar in EQNext, because it's a great way to set up their servers.
I hope they use a system like EVE-Online's wherein every zone has its own server (may not sound good but it is fantastic at preventing lag unless you shove 2000+ people into a very small area like that).
Pulling numbers out of arse and pointing to games made by people who had no idea what they wanted besides OW PVP is a sure fire way to disprove the argument that EVE as a scion of OW PVP works, it isn't a decent playerbase, it is a growing playerbase in a shrinking P2P market where space sims aren't that rare.
Add the percentage of sandbox both and sandbox pvp, lets do you a favour and not add in half the people from themepark both whom will jump at the chance of a sandbox both with decent combat.
Holy crap, that's awesome. Looks like there are quite a few fans of "sandbox both".
That poll doesn't help your case much.
There's an equal amount of players that voted for PVE only and PVP Both*. Then you gotta figure some PVE players probably voted Both* (As in they don't mind PVP servers so that the game is more successful, but want them to be separate). In any case, if that poll was actually representative of all the people looking forward to EQN, a forced PVP set up would be alienating about half of the people who are looking forward to EQN.
Then you look at how low the numbers are for Sandbox PVP*, and you get the idea of how unpopular it is.
Like I said. I'm in the minority camp, but at least I don't live in a fantasy world where I think SOE is going to cater to my extreme niche population exclusively.
You're going to be happy after 2 August, I assure you. But I also assure you that you're confused on how this game is going to work.
Generally when you roll on a PvP server there is a message displayed warning you of PvP. If this game has that & you accept the terms, you are consenting to PvP.
Even if there is only one server & it has that disclaimer, it is consensual & not forced.
I hope this game is PK-full loot-permadeath.
That's not what people are talking about.
They're talking about PVE players who want to play EQN without the threat of PVP. The "Force" they're talking about is there being no choice. Play EQN PVP OR don't play. That kind of "Force".
Obviously if they still choose to play, and the rules allow for non-consent pvp, they are consenting by playing the game.
Pulling numbers out of arse and pointing to games made by people who had no idea what they wanted besides OW PVP is a sure fire way to disprove the argument that EVE as a scion of OW PVP works, it isn't a decent playerbase, it is a growing playerbase in a shrinking P2P market where space sims aren't that rare.
Add the percentage of sandbox both and sandbox pvp, lets do you a favour and not add in half the people from themepark both whom will jump at the chance of a sandbox both with decent combat.
Holy crap, that's awesome. Looks like there are quite a few fans of "sandbox both".
That poll doesn't help your case much.
There's an equal amount of players that voted for PVE only and PVP Both*. Then you gotta figure some PVE players probably voted Both* (As in they don't mind PVP servers so that the game is more successful, but want them to be separate). In any case, if that poll was actually representative of all the people looking forward to EQN, a forced PVP set up would be alienating about half of the people who are looking forward to EQN.
Then you look at how low the numbers are for Sandbox PVP*, and you get the idea of how unpopular it is.
Like I said. I'm in the minority camp, but at least I don't live in a fantasy world where I think SOE is going to cater to my extreme niche population exclusively.
You're going to be happy after 2 August, I assure you. But I also assure you that you're confused on how this game is going to work.
I love your optimism.
First off PVE only precludes PVP in all forms ergo you cannot take sandbox both in any way shape or form, that alienates 3/4s of the people waiting for EQN. You're optimistic to the point of masochism to believe SOE would cater to people who burn content in F2P games and then flip to the next one, Hell I am willing to bet an enlightened Open World PVP system is likely because people who like that sort of thing when they find just the right game stick with it for years (I've been playing EVE for 7 years, let that sit with you for a moment, then when it's done let the notion that I am still one of the younger veterans in-game that's still active, there are people who've played the game since beta still playing regularly sit with you, not even WoW can say that), niche or not that kind of dedication in this market is what SOE should be banking for and if it is a good Open World PVP system then a good portion of the sandbox both and even themepark both crowd will join in because yeah they may get ganked once in a while but in this situation it's the kind of game where you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get a sword and get some revenge.
Niche in this context isn't bad if that niche is filled with people starved for a good game and who have a history of game loyalty. If they manage to expand the niche a little bit to allow spill in from other niches by having a good crafting system, meaningful exploration and a fair Open World PVP system then this won't be a WoW killer but it will be a Immortal game to put even EQ 1 to shame.
and what did Eve cost to build as opposed to EQN? They need numbers to pay for it. OWPVP might be steadfast, but I highly doubt the game will be like Eve where people have multiple accounts, that make few many.
(I've been playing EVE for 7 years, let that sit with you for a moment),
...and get some revenge.
Niche in this context isn't bad if that niche is filled with people starved for a good game and who have a history of game loyalty. If they manage to expand the niche a little bit to allow spill in from other niches by having a good crafting system, meaningful exploration and a fair Open World PVP system then this won't be a WoW killer but it will be a Immortal game to put even EQ 1 to shame.
So is EVE a good game or not?
If it is a good game then you are not one of the people starved for a good game.
If it is not a good game why are you still playing it after 7 years?
There are people still playing EQ after 14 years, is that not a better history of game loyalty? There are also people still playing WoW and EQ2 after almost 9 years and I do mean players there from the start and still there.
I have no problem with a fair Open World PvP system, but FFA PvP is never fair.
Finally I have no desire to "get some revenge", force me to be your victim in a game and I simply stop playing it, so do many others.
First off PVE only precludes PVP in all forms ergo you cannot take sandbox both in any way shape or form, that alienates 3/4s of the people waiting for EQN. You're optimistic to the point of masochism to believe SOE would cater to people who burn content in F2P games and then flip to the next one, Hell I am willing to bet an enlightened Open World PVP system is likely because people who like that sort of thing when they find just the right game stick with it for years (I've been playing EVE for 7 years, let that sit with you for a moment, then when it's done let the notion that I am still one of the younger veterans in-game that's still active, there are people who've played the game since beta still playing regularly sit with you, not even WoW can say that), niche or not that kind of dedication in this market is what SOE should be banking for and if it is a good Open World PVP system then a good portion of the sandbox both and even themepark both crowd will join in because yeah they may get ganked once in a while but in this situation it's the kind of game where you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get a sword and get some revenge.
Niche in this context isn't bad if that niche is filled with people starved for a good game and who have a history of game loyalty. If they manage to expand the niche a little bit to allow spill in from other niches by having a good crafting system, meaningful exploration and a fair Open World PVP system then this won't be a WoW killer but it will be a Immortal game to put even EQ 1 to shame.
-Thanks, I know EQN is going to be great, for quite a few reasons.
-EQN isn't going to alienate anyone. It's going to deliver a really great game for people who only want PVE, and for people who want PVP and PVE.
-I waited outside in the morning for the game store to open on the first day of EQ's release on March 16th, 1999 so I could run home and play it right away. I still play the game today, over 14 years later and it's the game that got me to truly fall in love with PC gaming. In turn it is probably one of the biggest influences in my life that directed me toward getting a degree in game development and working in the industry. Let that sit with you.
-You've got this fantasy built up in your head that sandbox pvp gamers are some how more loyal or stick around longer whatnot and it's just something you've built up in your* head because that's what you like. Hey, no argument that PVP is fun and I love playing them too. I gotcha. But lets not make false assumptions of player type or spending habits based on a genre and play style.
-I never said niche was a bad thing. I just said that SOE isn't going to alienate a huge portion of it's fan base and potential players. Especially since they are the vast majority of the player base.
-PVE games, free roaming, sandbox style games with zero PVP can keep bringing people back over and over again just as well as any other game type. Marrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are three games that I personally have put way too many hours of my life into and on my steam friend's list it's one of the game series that generates the most total playtime for a lot of my friends. You don't kill a single player in those games.
-Lets not get started with the amount of time people have put into Minecraft either.
-I got nothing against PVP games. As I've already mentioned, those are the kinds of games I generally gravitate towards and enjoy. I love playing competitively against other players. FPS, RTS, RPG, pit me against some people and I can be entertained for years.
And I know SOE is going to capitalize on OW PVP in EQN. But there will absolutely be a PVE flavor of the game for those who choose it. This doesn't even have a chance of not being true lol.
If it is a good game then you are not one of the people starved for a good game.
If it is not a good game why are you still playing it after 7 years?
There are people still playing EQ after 14 years, is that not a better history of game loyalty? There are also people still playing WoW and EQ2 after almost 9 years and I do mean players there from the start and still there.
I have no problem with a fair Open World PvP system, but FFA PvP is never fair.
Finally I have no desire to "get some revenge", force me to be your victim in a game and I simply stop playing it, so do many others.
Don't worry crafty, I got your back. You're my bluebee care-bear brother. You guys are getting a great PVE game. I might even make a character on your server so I can come craft some boats and go fishing with you.
If it is a good game then you are not one of the people starved for a good game.
If it is not a good game why are you still playing it after 7 years?
There are people still playing EQ after 14 years, is that not a better history of game loyalty? There are also people still playing WoW and EQ2 after almost 9 years and I do mean players there from the start and still there.
I have no problem with a fair Open World PvP system, but FFA PvP is never fair.
Finally I have no desire to "get some revenge", force me to be your victim in a game and I simply stop playing it, so do many others.
Don't worry crafty, I got your back. You're my bluebee care-bear brother. You guys are getting a great PVE game. I might even make a character on your server so I can come craft some boats and go fishing with you.
Sigh all this PvP talk... EQ1 had almost 0 PvP in it. PvP really has no place in the everquest world. I'm an active PvP'er and I enjoy it but I'd rather them talk about how they are going to bring the fun back to PvE'ing.
If it is a good game then you are not one of the people starved for a good game.
If it is not a good game why are you still playing it after 7 years?
There are people still playing EQ after 14 years, is that not a better history of game loyalty? There are also people still playing WoW and EQ2 after almost 9 years and I do mean players there from the start and still there.
I have no problem with a fair Open World PvP system, but FFA PvP is never fair.
Finally I have no desire to "get some revenge", force me to be your victim in a game and I simply stop playing it, so do many others.
Don't worry crafty, I got your back. You're my bluebee care-bear brother. You guys are getting a great PVE game. I might even make a character on your server so I can come craft some boats and go fishing with you.
I like fishing.
I like crafting boats. I made Galleons and Caravels in Vanguard. Was really cool to see the end result of a lot of hard work result in such fun toys.
Comments
Replace that c would a w. If you think full on PVP degrades into a gank fest check EVE-Online, there's even a multi-bloc war happening right now due to a recent change in the value of certain commodities in an expansion and that's led to the guys who had the monopoly on the last most valuable commodity to declare war on former allies to claim the new most valuable and it's backfired spectacularly on them for some very interesting reasons, all this while people like me in (relatively) safe zones go about our business without so much as a skipped beat, sure some price fluctuations happen due to the materiel being consumed in that war but... most market players are also jizzing themselves at the profits they're making supplying the war.
Granted EVE-Online may also be that single unique game that makes full on PVP work...but I view those odds as being the same as the odds of humanity being born from a set of circumstances unique to the entire universe (bloody remote).
Generally when you roll on a PvP server there is a message displayed warning you of PvP. If this game has that & you accept the terms, you are consenting to PvP.
Even if there is only one server & it has that disclaimer, it is consensual & not forced.
I hope this game is PK-full loot-permadeath.
Holy crap, that's awesome. Looks like there are quite a few fans of "sandbox both".
Not going to happen, a single server is too vulnerable.
The lead coder on EQNext was the lead coder on EQ.
In EQ they used zone servers.
Zone A,B,C,D is on server 1
Zone E,F,G,H is on server 2
And a log-in server.
The benefit of this is that when Server 1 goes down, all players in zone A,B,C,D get thrown to bind, and the EQ servers don't go down.
They will likely use something similar in EQNext, because it's a great way to set up their servers.
In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they're using some EQ servers to test EQNext on.
What's funny is that you can track those servers when you zone in and out, and when you ping them, they are actually called Zone server X, etc.
I hope they use a system like EVE-Online's wherein every zone has its own server (may not sound good but it is fantastic at preventing lag unless you shove 2000+ people into a very small area like that).
That poll doesn't help your case much.
There's an equal amount of players that voted for PVE only and PVP Both*. Then you gotta figure some PVE players probably voted Both* (As in they don't mind PVP servers so that the game is more successful, but want them to be separate). In any case, if that poll was actually representative of all the people looking forward to EQN, a forced PVP set up would be alienating about half of the people who are looking forward to EQN.
Then you look at how low the numbers are for Sandbox PVP*, and you get the idea of how unpopular it is.
Like I said. I'm in the minority camp, but at least I don't live in a fantasy world where I think SOE is going to cater to my extreme niche population exclusively.
You're going to be happy after 2 August, I assure you. But I also assure you that you're confused on how this game is going to work.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
That's not what people are talking about.
They're talking about PVE players who want to play EQN without the threat of PVP. The "Force" they're talking about is there being no choice. Play EQN PVP OR don't play. That kind of "Force".
Obviously if they still choose to play, and the rules allow for non-consent pvp, they are consenting by playing the game.
But that's not what he being debated here.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
First off PVE only precludes PVP in all forms ergo you cannot take sandbox both in any way shape or form, that alienates 3/4s of the people waiting for EQN. You're optimistic to the point of masochism to believe SOE would cater to people who burn content in F2P games and then flip to the next one, Hell I am willing to bet an enlightened Open World PVP system is likely because people who like that sort of thing when they find just the right game stick with it for years (I've been playing EVE for 7 years, let that sit with you for a moment, then when it's done let the notion that I am still one of the younger veterans in-game that's still active, there are people who've played the game since beta still playing regularly sit with you, not even WoW can say that), niche or not that kind of dedication in this market is what SOE should be banking for and if it is a good Open World PVP system then a good portion of the sandbox both and even themepark both crowd will join in because yeah they may get ganked once in a while but in this situation it's the kind of game where you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get a sword and get some revenge.
Niche in this context isn't bad if that niche is filled with people starved for a good game and who have a history of game loyalty. If they manage to expand the niche a little bit to allow spill in from other niches by having a good crafting system, meaningful exploration and a fair Open World PVP system then this won't be a WoW killer but it will be a Immortal game to put even EQ 1 to shame.
So is EVE a good game or not?
There are people still playing EQ after 14 years, is that not a better history of game loyalty? There are also people still playing WoW and EQ2 after almost 9 years and I do mean players there from the start and still there.
I have no problem with a fair Open World PvP system, but FFA PvP is never fair.
Finally I have no desire to "get some revenge", force me to be your victim in a game and I simply stop playing it, so do many others.
-Thanks, I know EQN is going to be great, for quite a few reasons.
-EQN isn't going to alienate anyone. It's going to deliver a really great game for people who only want PVE, and for people who want PVP and PVE.
-I waited outside in the morning for the game store to open on the first day of EQ's release on March 16th, 1999 so I could run home and play it right away. I still play the game today, over 14 years later and it's the game that got me to truly fall in love with PC gaming. In turn it is probably one of the biggest influences in my life that directed me toward getting a degree in game development and working in the industry. Let that sit with you.
-You've got this fantasy built up in your head that sandbox pvp gamers are some how more loyal or stick around longer whatnot and it's just something you've built up in your* head because that's what you like. Hey, no argument that PVP is fun and I love playing them too. I gotcha. But lets not make false assumptions of player type or spending habits based on a genre and play style.
-I never said niche was a bad thing. I just said that SOE isn't going to alienate a huge portion of it's fan base and potential players. Especially since they are the vast majority of the player base.
-PVE games, free roaming, sandbox style games with zero PVP can keep bringing people back over and over again just as well as any other game type. Marrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are three games that I personally have put way too many hours of my life into and on my steam friend's list it's one of the game series that generates the most total playtime for a lot of my friends. You don't kill a single player in those games.
-Lets not get started with the amount of time people have put into Minecraft either.
-I got nothing against PVP games. As I've already mentioned, those are the kinds of games I generally gravitate towards and enjoy. I love playing competitively against other players. FPS, RTS, RPG, pit me against some people and I can be entertained for years.
And I know SOE is going to capitalize on OW PVP in EQN. But there will absolutely be a PVE flavor of the game for those who choose it. This doesn't even have a chance of not being true lol.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Don't worry crafty, I got your back. You're my bluebee care-bear brother. You guys are getting a great PVE game. I might even make a character on your server so I can come craft some boats and go fishing with you.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I like fishing.
I like crafting boats. I made Galleons and Caravels in Vanguard. Was really cool to see the end result of a lot of hard work result in such fun toys.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I don't think you know anything about how a server farm works.