People keep saying mmorpg players "want somethign new"
I dont !!!!!!!!!!! i been playing them for over 10 years and its the new mmorpgs that i find crap gw2 (no trinity) CRAP it didnt work, age of conan crap crap crap crap Tera crap crap crap neverwinter crap crap crap swtor crap crap crap Rift (wasnt too bad but got boring) .
everytime a new mmorpg comes out people end up going back to their original mmorpg that they left usually wow but then they quit it again because now it has changed and is basicly something different to what it once was aka its crap now.
people want the old not the new make a mmorpg that requires braincells and none of that flyign combat , teleporting to dungeons instantly bullshit, worlds are supposed to be immersive , how is teleporting everywhere gonna help to do that.
i think mmorpgs need to take a step back and stop trying to be new and cater to noobs that play the games like a singleplayer game and burn through all content after 5 mins and then move on to teh next mmorpg.
You lost me at 'crap'.
AOC has holy trinity, so does Tera, Rift and NW and SWTOR. All these MMOS just like FFXIV ARR had some new things added to them but over all they were following the same tried and tested themepark formula. So i find it ironic you call all these MMOS crap and then write 'i don't want something new'.
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
I think Duke Nukem had lots of standard FPS "mechanics" and "some new things" I guess that means it was a pretty good game after all. Because you know "some new things" are all that matters to real gamers.
People keep saying mmorpg players "want somethign new"
I dont !!!!!!!!!!! i been playing them for over 10 years and its the new mmorpgs that i find crap gw2 (no trinity) CRAP it didnt work, age of conan crap crap crap crap Tera crap crap crap neverwinter crap crap crap swtor crap crap crap Rift (wasnt too bad but got boring) .
everytime a new mmorpg comes out people end up going back to their original mmorpg that they left usually wow but then they quit it again because now it has changed and is basicly something different to what it once was aka its crap now.
people want the old not the new make a mmorpg that requires braincells and none of that flyign combat , teleporting to dungeons instantly bullshit, worlds are supposed to be immersive , how is teleporting everywhere gonna help to do that.
i think mmorpgs need to take a step back and stop trying to be new and cater to noobs that play the games like a singleplayer game and burn through all content after 5 mins and then move on to teh next mmorpg.
You lost me at 'crap'.
AOC has holy trinity, so does Tera, Rift and NW and SWTOR. All these MMOS just like FFXIV ARR had some new things added to them but over all they were following the same tried and tested themepark formula. So i find it ironic you call all these MMOS crap and then write 'i don't want something new'.
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
You are asking the wrong person. You should ask this to person i quoted since for him the only reason all these MMOS were crap because they had no holy trinity (even though they did).
And honestly you should be the last person to tell us about standards who spent majority of time white knighting the failure like FFXIV 1.0
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
People keep saying mmorpg players "want somethign new"
I dont !!!!!!!!!!! i been playing them for over 10 years and its the new mmorpgs that i find crap gw2 (no trinity) CRAP it didnt work, age of conan crap crap crap crap Tera crap crap crap neverwinter crap crap crap swtor crap crap crap Rift (wasnt too bad but got boring) .
everytime a new mmorpg comes out people end up going back to their original mmorpg that they left usually wow but then they quit it again because now it has changed and is basicly something different to what it once was aka its crap now.
people want the old not the new make a mmorpg that requires braincells and none of that flyign combat , teleporting to dungeons instantly bullshit, worlds are supposed to be immersive , how is teleporting everywhere gonna help to do that.
i think mmorpgs need to take a step back and stop trying to be new and cater to noobs that play the games like a singleplayer game and burn through all content after 5 mins and then move on to teh next mmorpg.
You lost me at 'crap'.
AOC has holy trinity, so does Tera, Rift and NW and SWTOR. All these MMOS just like FFXIV ARR had some new things added to them but over all they were following the same tried and tested themepark formula. So i find it ironic you call all these MMOS crap and then write 'i don't want something new'.
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
You are asking the wrong person. You should ask this to person i quoted since for him the only reason all these MMOS were crap because they had no holy trinity (even though they did).
No he says that GW2 was crap because it did not have the trinity. A lot of people who play MMORPG's agree with that criticism. You don't fair enough. He never said Rift didn't have the holy trinity, he said not that bad but got boring, and said SWTOR was crap crap crap crap.
I didn't like Rift because the whole world, lore, characters, animations, classes, bosses, everything about it bored me. Not because it was a "themepark" or didn't have enough "some new things".
You seem to think that a games quality is dependent upon it having "some new things", but I think you can have a pretty crappy game no matter how many "some new things" you add to it. The evidence for that is in the recent crop of MMO's who all tried to differentiate themselves by having "some new things" while taking attention away from making the overall experience as enjoyable as possible. The result (imo) is that those games are "crap".
Not saying you can't both innovate and make a quality/polished game (well if you are a big enough studio, which I'd argue most MMO studios ARE NOT), but innovation does not make me have fun playing some crappy game. I get that it does that (for about 2 seconds) for those of you who are so jaded and lost that you are incapable of enjoying standard RPG features any longer no matter what settings/game they are found in. I'm not one of those people.
Also to reply to your edit, let's see my game of choice is still around, my character is still here, and it has improved greatly. I'll "white knight" the team that gave me that all god damn day long, no one else in any MMO I have played (FFXI, Vangaurd, EQ1/2, SWG, LOTRO, Rift, Aion, etc. etc.) has done as much for me as a customer as the team behind FFXIV. So that is my basis for my "white knighting" what is your basis for your trolling, or better yet what is your idea of a better studio that has done more for its fans in the past 3 years?
OP only made this thread because the game is gaining traction and has become quite popular even with it still being in the beta stages. He's sad some of his friends will leave GW2 because they are Final Fantasy fans. Also I'm very picky and if I play the game then its going to be popular. I know that logic is kind of silly, but it's been proven right in the past. I don't feel like elaborating on why you are what you are because you made another "OMGBBQS THIS GAME IS NOT MY FAVORITE GAME AND WON'T MAKE IT. IT WILL FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL!" doom and gloom prediction threads.
People keep saying mmorpg players "want somethign new"
I dont !!!!!!!!!!! i been playing them for over 10 years and its the new mmorpgs that i find crap gw2 (no trinity) CRAP it didnt work, age of conan crap crap crap crap Tera crap crap crap neverwinter crap crap crap swtor crap crap crap Rift (wasnt too bad but got boring) .
everytime a new mmorpg comes out people end up going back to their original mmorpg that they left usually wow but then they quit it again because now it has changed and is basicly something different to what it once was aka its crap now.
people want the old not the new make a mmorpg that requires braincells and none of that flyign combat , teleporting to dungeons instantly bullshit, worlds are supposed to be immersive , how is teleporting everywhere gonna help to do that.
i think mmorpgs need to take a step back and stop trying to be new and cater to noobs that play the games like a singleplayer game and burn through all content after 5 mins and then move on to teh next mmorpg.
You lost me at 'crap'.
AOC has holy trinity, so does Tera, Rift and NW and SWTOR. All these MMOS just like FFXIV ARR had some new things added to them but over all they were following the same tried and tested themepark formula. So i find it ironic you call all these MMOS crap and then write 'i don't want something new'.
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
You are asking the wrong person. You should ask this to person i quoted since for him the only reason all these MMOS were crap because they had no holy trinity (even though they did).
No he says that GW2 was crap because it did not have the trinity. A lot of people who play MMORPG's agree with that criticism. You don't fair enough. He never said Rift didn't have the holy trinity, he said it was crap crap crap crap.
I didn't like Rift because the whole world, lore, characters, animations, classes, bosses, everything about it bored me. Not because it was a "themepark" or didn't have enough "some new things".
You seem to think that a games quality is dependent upon it having "some new things", but I think you can have a pretty crappy game no matter how many "some new things" you add to it. The evidence for that is in the recent crop of MMO's who all tried to differentiate themselves by having "some new things" while taking attention away from making the overall experience as enjoyable as possible. The result (imo) is that those games are crap.
Not saying you can't both innovate and make new games, but innovation does not make me have fun playing some crappy game. I get that it does that (for about 2 seconds) for those of you who are so jaded and lost that you are incapable of enjoying standard RPG features any longer no matter what settings/game they are found in. I'm not one of those people.
Also to reply to your edit, let's see my game of choice is still around, my character is still here, and it has improved greatly. I'll "white knight" the team that gave me that all god damn day long, no one else in any MMO I have played (FFXI, Vangaurd, EQ1/2, SWG, LOTRO, Rift, Aion, etc. etc.) has done as much for me as a customer as the team behind FFXIV. So that is my basis for my "white knighting" what is your basis for your trolling, or better yet what is your idea of a better studio that has done more for its fans in the past 3 years?
For you anyone who doesn't agree with your view point is 'trolling'. I suggest understand the meaning of the word because you throw it around too casually. If you know how to dish it out learn to take it too. You comment about 'you guys have no standards' was just asking for it. Now that is what i call trolling and you are very good at it too.
Now getting back to OP. Yes he did mention GW2 and said it is crap due to lack of holy trinity. But he gave no reasoning for calling other mmos crap. he simply followed on after GW2 so it is safe to assume that he thinks those MMOS are crap too because they have no holy trinity. If he didn't mean that then he surely didn't explain his post well.
A friendly suggestion because i have noticed this about your posting style. Try not to get personal every time or generalise people with your passive / agressive posts and you will get a lot more civil replies.
As far as no other company has done as much as FFXIV..that is matter of opinion not some fact to justify your hypocricy and double standards towards others and their choice of MMOS whom you just very conveniently lumped in one group of 'people with low standards'.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
It's quite a testament to how good this game really is that the majority of criticisms are very shallow. There is already a huge following for this game. Friends of mine who only play consoles are salivating trying to find beta keys because the word on the street is that this is the game to be playing.
The next beta is just hours away. Can't wait to dive back in.
People keep saying mmorpg players "want somethign new"
I dont !!!!!!!!!!! i been playing them for over 10 years and its the new mmorpgs that i find crap gw2 (no trinity) CRAP it didnt work, age of conan crap crap crap crap Tera crap crap crap neverwinter crap crap crap swtor crap crap crap Rift (wasnt too bad but got boring) .
everytime a new mmorpg comes out people end up going back to their original mmorpg that they left usually wow but then they quit it again because now it has changed and is basicly something different to what it once was aka its crap now.
people want the old not the new make a mmorpg that requires braincells and none of that flyign combat , teleporting to dungeons instantly bullshit, worlds are supposed to be immersive , how is teleporting everywhere gonna help to do that.
i think mmorpgs need to take a step back and stop trying to be new and cater to noobs that play the games like a singleplayer game and burn through all content after 5 mins and then move on to teh next mmorpg.
You lost me at 'crap'.
AOC has holy trinity, so does Tera, Rift and NW and SWTOR. All these MMOS just like FFXIV ARR had some new things added to them but over all they were following the same tried and tested themepark formula. So i find it ironic you call all these MMOS crap and then write 'i don't want something new'.
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
You are asking the wrong person. You should ask this to person i quoted since for him the only reason all these MMOS were crap because they had no holy trinity (even though they did).
No he says that GW2 was crap because it did not have the trinity. A lot of people who play MMORPG's agree with that criticism. You don't fair enough. He never said Rift didn't have the holy trinity, he said it was crap crap crap crap.
I didn't like Rift because the whole world, lore, characters, animations, classes, bosses, everything about it bored me. Not because it was a "themepark" or didn't have enough "some new things".
You seem to think that a games quality is dependent upon it having "some new things", but I think you can have a pretty crappy game no matter how many "some new things" you add to it. The evidence for that is in the recent crop of MMO's who all tried to differentiate themselves by having "some new things" while taking attention away from making the overall experience as enjoyable as possible. The result (imo) is that those games are crap.
Not saying you can't both innovate and make new games, but innovation does not make me have fun playing some crappy game. I get that it does that (for about 2 seconds) for those of you who are so jaded and lost that you are incapable of enjoying standard RPG features any longer no matter what settings/game they are found in. I'm not one of those people.
Also to reply to your edit, let's see my game of choice is still around, my character is still here, and it has improved greatly. I'll "white knight" the team that gave me that all god damn day long, no one else in any MMO I have played (FFXI, Vangaurd, EQ1/2, SWG, LOTRO, Rift, Aion, etc. etc.) has done as much for me as a customer as the team behind FFXIV. So that is my basis for my "white knighting" what is your basis for your trolling, or better yet what is your idea of a better studio that has done more for its fans in the past 3 years?
For you anyone who doesn't agree with your view point is 'trolling'. I suggest understand the meaning of the word because you throw it around too casually. If you know how to dish it out learn to take it too. You comment about 'you guys have no standards' was just asking for it. Now that is what i call trolling and you are very good at it too.
Now getting back to OP. Yes he did mention GW2 and said it is crap due to lack of holy trinity. But he gave no reasoning for calling other mmos crap. he simply followed on after GW2 so it is safe to assume that he thinks those MMOS are crap too because they have no holy trinity. If he didn't mean that then he surely didn't explain his post well.
A friendly suggestion because i have noticed this about your posting style. Try not to get personal every time or generalise people with your passive / agressive posts and you will get a lot more civil replies.
As far as no other company has done as much as FFXIV..that is matter of opinion not some fact to justify your hypocricy and double standards towards others and their choice of MMOS whom you just very conveniently lumped in one group of 'people with low standards'.
Not much to respond to as your post is mostly a personal attack on me (ironically, all I said was that you were a troll because you called me a white knight which is trolling "name calling") and hopefully I don't get another ban for retaliating to trolling again.
I don't know how you read the person's post as saying those games didn't have holy trinity, he has no trinity in parenthesis right after GW2. If he wanted to say all games released recently have no trinity he would have worded it differently. You can ask him, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying those games didn't have a trinity as anyone can spend five seconds to see that they do.
I don't have double standards for MMO studios, I have played games that a number of studios have made. I have one standard and that is if I enjoy a game or not, and if the company behind it supports that game (since I pay a subscription every month support of the game is very important to me). I directly compared my experience in all of those games to the experience I have from playing FFXIV. Sure it is a matter of opinion, but I can point to what this team has done for me and my game (despite its low numbers) and then point to what all of those other studios did for those games when I was playing them (low numbers or not).
Clearly Square Enix did more. SOE never attempted this with Vanguard when I played it. I really wish they would, I liked Vanguard FAR more than I liked FFXIV 1.0, and my posting history shows that. I originally joined this site to tell people how much I thought Vanguard had improved, and it's potential to become a truly great game after the release of APW with continued support. So I'm not applying double standards (because SOE obviously doesn't care about Vanguard as much as SE does FFXIV, unless you want to argue that point?), Square Enix did much more for me as a customer.
You can say I have low standards because I was both a fan of Vanguard and FFXIV both of which had terrible launches and were dismissed by most MMORPG players. I stand behind my support of Vanguard, because for me Vanguard was a very special game that was simply not supported properly. Luckily for me I found a company in Square Enix that is both capable and willing to fix the problems with their games and not simply give up. Unlike SOE who was content to let such a huge undertaking (as Vanguard was incredibly ambitious and represented the hard work of many talented and passionate people) wither and die without supporting it (until it was far too late, F2P, and no longer holds any interest whatsoever to me).
So please demonstrate how I am a hyprocrite if nothing else? I am passionate maybe about the games I play, and demanding of the companies behind them personally. But I genuinely appreciate what Square Enix has done for me, because I know the frustration and pain of having an MMO I love get the opposite treatment by the studio behind it. So if nothing else I'll defend them for that huge accomplishment. But I also happen to really like ARR much more than 1.0, and am excited about all the new things in it (most of which I wanted in 1.0 but couldn't get due to the engine).
I want to preface my response to this post with this, by responding we are feeding the fire--we prolong the life of a rather useless post that really has nothing to contribute to the discussion of the future of this game. It is obvious the OP has spent very little time in the FFXIV universe/ has done little research on the game and for whatever reason has made it his/her personal vendetta to ruin this game. I understand that by posting on here that I too am "tending the flame" but someone has to say it . . . there's no use debating "neobahamut20" as you are not going to sway his/her opinion--it will remain unfaltering because the OP is already confirmed in his/her beliefs. Lets just agree to disagree everybody and not post pointless rants that pretend to prove a point.
P.S. I'm not going to reply to whatever anyone posts in response to this, or even read it for that matter. Please just accept my statement and move on.
People keep saying mmorpg players "want somethign new"
I dont !!!!!!!!!!! i been playing them for over 10 years and its the new mmorpgs that i find crap gw2 (no trinity) CRAP it didnt work, age of conan crap crap crap crap Tera crap crap crap neverwinter crap crap crap swtor crap crap crap Rift (wasnt too bad but got boring) .
everytime a new mmorpg comes out people end up going back to their original mmorpg that they left usually wow but then they quit it again because now it has changed and is basicly something different to what it once was aka its crap now.
people want the old not the new make a mmorpg that requires braincells and none of that flyign combat , teleporting to dungeons instantly bullshit, worlds are supposed to be immersive , how is teleporting everywhere gonna help to do that.
i think mmorpgs need to take a step back and stop trying to be new and cater to noobs that play the games like a singleplayer game and burn through all content after 5 mins and then move on to teh next mmorpg.
You lost me at 'crap'.
AOC has holy trinity, so does Tera, Rift and NW and SWTOR. All these MMOS just like FFXIV ARR had some new things added to them but over all they were following the same tried and tested themepark formula. So i find it ironic you call all these MMOS crap and then write 'i don't want something new'.
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
You are asking the wrong person. You should ask this to person i quoted since for him the only reason all these MMOS were crap because they had no holy trinity (even though they did).
No he says that GW2 was crap because it did not have the trinity. A lot of people who play MMORPG's agree with that criticism. You don't fair enough. He never said Rift didn't have the holy trinity, he said it was crap crap crap crap.
I didn't like Rift because the whole world, lore, characters, animations, classes, bosses, everything about it bored me. Not because it was a "themepark" or didn't have enough "some new things".
You seem to think that a games quality is dependent upon it having "some new things", but I think you can have a pretty crappy game no matter how many "some new things" you add to it. The evidence for that is in the recent crop of MMO's who all tried to differentiate themselves by having "some new things" while taking attention away from making the overall experience as enjoyable as possible. The result (imo) is that those games are crap.
Not saying you can't both innovate and make new games, but innovation does not make me have fun playing some crappy game. I get that it does that (for about 2 seconds) for those of you who are so jaded and lost that you are incapable of enjoying standard RPG features any longer no matter what settings/game they are found in. I'm not one of those people.
Also to reply to your edit, let's see my game of choice is still around, my character is still here, and it has improved greatly. I'll "white knight" the team that gave me that all god damn day long, no one else in any MMO I have played (FFXI, Vangaurd, EQ1/2, SWG, LOTRO, Rift, Aion, etc. etc.) has done as much for me as a customer as the team behind FFXIV. So that is my basis for my "white knighting" what is your basis for your trolling, or better yet what is your idea of a better studio that has done more for its fans in the past 3 years?
For you anyone who doesn't agree with your view point is 'trolling'. I suggest understand the meaning of the word because you throw it around too casually. If you know how to dish it out learn to take it too. You comment about 'you guys have no standards' was just asking for it. Now that is what i call trolling and you are very good at it too.
Now getting back to OP. Yes he did mention GW2 and said it is crap due to lack of holy trinity. But he gave no reasoning for calling other mmos crap. he simply followed on after GW2 so it is safe to assume that he thinks those MMOS are crap too because they have no holy trinity. If he didn't mean that then he surely didn't explain his post well.
A friendly suggestion because i have noticed this about your posting style. Try not to get personal every time or generalise people with your passive / agressive posts and you will get a lot more civil replies.
As far as no other company has done as much as FFXIV..that is matter of opinion not some fact to justify your hypocricy and double standards towards others and their choice of MMOS whom you just very conveniently lumped in one group of 'people with low standards'.
Not much to respond to as your post is mostly a personal attack on me (ironically, all I said was that you were a troll because you called me a white knight which is trolling "name calling") and hopefully I don't get another ban for retaliating to trolling again.
Oh wow....l. So after your comment regarding 'you people have no standards' you were expecting what? a pat on your back? like i said you can dishit out but can't take it. Let me be very clear. Don't start something if you your toleranace level is too low. You started this with your 'you all have low standards' BS not me. White knight comment came after that. Just to show you that your standards aren't hat all high.
I don't know how you read the person's post as saying those games didn't have holy trinity, he has no trinity in parenthesis right after GW2. If he wanted to say all games released recently have no trinity he would have worded it differently. You can ask him, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying those games didn't have a trinity as anyone can spend five seconds to see that they do.
Like i said if he meant otherwise he didn't make any effort to make his point clear. he made no distnction between other MMOS and GW2 and just followed on with his earlier comment about lack of holy trinity. he didn't even bother to explain why those MMOS are crap.
I don't have double standards for MMO studios, I have played games that a number of studios have made. I have one standard and that is if I enjoy a game or not, and if the company behind it supports that game (since I pay a subscription every month support of the game is very important to me). I directly compared my experience in all of those games to the experience I have from playing FFXIV. Sure it is a matter of opinion, but I can point to what this team has done for me and my game (despite its low numbers) and then point to what all of those other studios did for those games when I was playing them (low numbers or not).
And i have also played almost every MMO on the market that is why i am telling you now that it is matter of opinion and you can not use this reasoning as an excuse to generalise and insult people. There are many who would disagree with you because companies like Trion and Anet are also as dedicates as SE. Only difference is that Trion and Anet didn't screw their games at epic proportions so they had no need to start all over again. They released solid products right at the start.
Clearly Square Enix did more. SOE never attempted this with Vanguard when I played it. I really wish they would, I liked Vanguard FAR more than I liked FFXIV 1.0, and my posting history shows that. I originally joined this site to tell people how much I thought Vanguard had improved, and it's potential to become a truly great game after the release of APW with continued support. So I'm not applying double standards (because SOE obviously doesn't care about Vanguard as much as SE does FFXIV, unless you want to argue that point?), Square Enix did much more for me as a customer.
Ofcourse they did more..they had to. First version was a flop and it is only for so long they could keep it up by dumping money into it out of their own pocket. Only because SE has very deep pockets doesn't mean they won't like to make profit on FFXIV.
And why would SOE attempt anything with Vanguard? they didn't make that game, the simply co published it because no one else was ready to touch it after Microsoft backed out. The game was already a mess even before SOE came into the picture.
You can say I have low standards because I was both a fan of Vanguard and FFXIV both of which had terrible launches and were dismissed by most MMORPG players. I stand behind my support of Vanguard, because for me Vanguard was a very special game that was simply not supported properly. Luckily for me I found a company in Square Enix that is both capable and willing to fix the problems with their games and not simply give up. Unlike SOE who was content to let such a huge undertaking (as Vanguard was incredibly ambitious and represented the hard work of many talented and passionate people) wither and die without supporting it (until it was far too late, F2P, and no longer holds any interest whatsoever to me).
So please demonstrate how I am a hyprocrite if nothing else? I am passionate maybe about the games I play, and demanding of the companies behind them personally. But I genuinely appreciate what Square Enix has done for me, because I know the frustration and pain of having an MMO I love get the opposite treatment by the studio behind it. So if nothing else I'll defend them for that huge accomplishment. But I also happen to really like ARR much more than 1.0, and am excited about all the new things in it (most of which I wanted in 1.0 but couldn't get due to the engine).
Because the games that might me be low standard in your eyes might be of high standard for other players. Why is it that you have all the right to back up games like FFXIV (which you enjoy) and if others people enjoy their MMO of choice they have low standards? if that is not double standards than what is?
Different strokes for different folks. It is one thing to crticise the game which is all right but it is whole another thing to generalise people on basis of their game of choice. Neither you or i are in any position to tell others about their taste and standards when it come to gaming.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
First, we must define what a success is. In this case success is attaining or surpassing the goals set by developers and the expectations for the game. The goals are set by the developper, the expectations come from the fans. Final Fantasy fans don't expect a playable game, they expect a new adventure, a ground-breaking innovative game and new game mechanics. Why? Because in the past, that is what Final Fantasy has been all about.
The goals, we can only speculate on, but the seem to be along the line of "people play X so lets do X or something similar to that, as long as we make money". While it is normal for a company to want to make money, it is also when you focus on making money instead of meeting expectations that you lose money. When you do not meet a customer's expectations, few customers will stay and hope you improve. Players in this day and age want much more than "a playable game".
So what does this game offer? Does it offer groundbreaking, new, innovative combat? No. Does it offer a new, groundbreaking, innovative story? At the moment, it seems not. Does it offer new, groundbreaking, innovative dungeons, reasons for grouping, reasons to interact? No. Does it offer new classes? No. New controls? No. So what does this game offer? Nothing new, just the old content all MMO players looking for a new game do not want. So right off the bat, they simply step back and understand that the game isn't meant for them. Unless, of course, a playstation release is considered new, then there is something, but it is hard to imagine how that will draw enough attention to attract people.
So who is the target audience? It seems it is new players, newcomers to the MMO world. Veterans are being forced through boring design principles from the beginning. MMOs are just like stores. If a customer walks into a store and sees nothing of interest within 5 minutes, you most likely lost him for a very, very long time if not forever. MMOs get more than 5 minutes though, they get 2 hours to impress. If they can't, he's gone. Likewise, if he gets bored within the first week, he's gone. I guess such a display of ignorance is the price to pay when you let someone who is not an analyst lead production.
So the big question really is, are there enough newcomers to sustain a game long enough for it to stay afloat especially after the 3rd month exodus (that happens even in successful games, but it seems like an interesting phenomenon - Every 3rd month of a new game is where players seem to give up on it the most)? The last game that lacked innovation, which was touted as the next big thing, was SW:TOR. It barely made it thanks to going F2P and it is still very far from a success, it is only playable.
Given that nostalgic Final Fantasy fans will still give the game a try, it still seems like FF11 is the better game of the two. There is no reason for a max level player from FF11 to switch over to FF14 at this point in time. For this reason and those listed above, this game will never be a success, but, with some luck, it might be able to stay afloat. Best of luck to them, but for me, its time to move on and wait for something else as this will never meet my expectations.
i laugh at your life.. Final fantasy Reborn is already a huge success.. so go to bed or go play your world of warcraft kiddo.. we dont like people like you because you fail at judging a game that isnt released.
final fantasy Reborn will be one of the greatest Mmorpg with Wildstar and Elder scrolls online
and this game offers nice graphics, gameplay,story and alot more
I am a Final Fantasy fan. I have been playing Final Fantasy games in one form or fashion since I was about 12 years old. I'm 37 now, three years away from fourty, and I love ARR. I plan on roleplaying on the Gilgamesh server and enjoying the game. Already I hate the beta because I can't stop leveling to see the next part of the story, and I don't want to stop. This game will have my money for at least the next two years.
I applaud Yoshida on what he has accomplished.
Does the game do anything new? No. I am waiting for Everquest Next to do something new. yes I can play two mmos at the same time.
But the game for me is like the Superman or Breyers Ice Cream of mmos. Yeah its nothing new but its damn damn good for what it is. I look at it as being no different from when Halo first dropped, nothing new but a damn good summation of its parts.
And for me its all that matters. It does everything I expect a FINAL FANTASY GAME to do.
See you all on Gilgamesh!
Amaare Margolis, Treasure Hunter Extraordinaire!
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
What's the point of this thread besides to cause needless drama and 12+ pages of debate about something that can't really be proven (and doesn't need to be)? Just wait and see.
People keep saying mmorpg players "want somethign new"
I dont !!!!!!!!!!! i been playing them for over 10 years and its the new mmorpgs that i find crap gw2 (no trinity) CRAP it didnt work, age of conan crap crap crap crap Tera crap crap crap neverwinter crap crap crap swtor crap crap crap Rift (wasnt too bad but got boring) .
everytime a new mmorpg comes out people end up going back to their original mmorpg that they left usually wow but then they quit it again because now it has changed and is basicly something different to what it once was aka its crap now.
people want the old not the new make a mmorpg that requires braincells and none of that flyign combat , teleporting to dungeons instantly bullshit, worlds are supposed to be immersive , how is teleporting everywhere gonna help to do that.
i think mmorpgs need to take a step back and stop trying to be new and cater to noobs that play the games like a singleplayer game and burn through all content after 5 mins and then move on to teh next mmorpg.
You lost me at 'crap'.
AOC has holy trinity, so does Tera, Rift and NW and SWTOR. All these MMOS just like FFXIV ARR had some new things added to them but over all they were following the same tried and tested themepark formula. So i find it ironic you call all these MMOS crap and then write 'i don't want something new'.
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
You are asking the wrong person. You should ask this to person i quoted since for him the only reason all these MMOS were crap because they had no holy trinity (even though they did).
No he says that GW2 was crap because it did not have the trinity. A lot of people who play MMORPG's agree with that criticism. You don't fair enough. He never said Rift didn't have the holy trinity, he said it was crap crap crap crap.
I didn't like Rift because the whole world, lore, characters, animations, classes, bosses, everything about it bored me. Not because it was a "themepark" or didn't have enough "some new things".
You seem to think that a games quality is dependent upon it having "some new things", but I think you can have a pretty crappy game no matter how many "some new things" you add to it. The evidence for that is in the recent crop of MMO's who all tried to differentiate themselves by having "some new things" while taking attention away from making the overall experience as enjoyable as possible. The result (imo) is that those games are crap.
Not saying you can't both innovate and make new games, but innovation does not make me have fun playing some crappy game. I get that it does that (for about 2 seconds) for those of you who are so jaded and lost that you are incapable of enjoying standard RPG features any longer no matter what settings/game they are found in. I'm not one of those people.
Also to reply to your edit, let's see my game of choice is still around, my character is still here, and it has improved greatly. I'll "white knight" the team that gave me that all god damn day long, no one else in any MMO I have played (FFXI, Vangaurd, EQ1/2, SWG, LOTRO, Rift, Aion, etc. etc.) has done as much for me as a customer as the team behind FFXIV. So that is my basis for my "white knighting" what is your basis for your trolling, or better yet what is your idea of a better studio that has done more for its fans in the past 3 years?
For you anyone who doesn't agree with your view point is 'trolling'. I suggest understand the meaning of the word because you throw it around too casually. If you know how to dish it out learn to take it too. You comment about 'you guys have no standards' was just asking for it. Now that is what i call trolling and you are very good at it too.
Now getting back to OP. Yes he did mention GW2 and said it is crap due to lack of holy trinity. But he gave no reasoning for calling other mmos crap. he simply followed on after GW2 so it is safe to assume that he thinks those MMOS are crap too because they have no holy trinity. If he didn't mean that then he surely didn't explain his post well.
A friendly suggestion because i have noticed this about your posting style. Try not to get personal every time or generalise people with your passive / agressive posts and you will get a lot more civil replies.
As far as no other company has done as much as FFXIV..that is matter of opinion not some fact to justify your hypocricy and double standards towards others and their choice of MMOS whom you just very conveniently lumped in one group of 'people with low standards'.
Not much to respond to as your post is mostly a personal attack on me (ironically, all I said was that you were a troll because you called me a white knight which is trolling "name calling") and hopefully I don't get another ban for retaliating to trolling again.
Oh wow....l. So after your comment regarding 'you people have no standards' you were expecting what? a pat on your back? like i said you can dishit out but can't take it. Let me be very clear. Don't start something if you your toleranace level is too low. You started this with your 'you all have low standards' BS not me. White knight comment came after that. Just to show you that your standards aren't hat all high.
I made a point about how if all you base a game's worth off of is "some new things" that this was an example of what I thought was low standards. The white knight comment came by way of an angry edit after your post and a personal attack on me. I don't even know who you are so I wasn't personally attacking you until i called you a troll for calling me names simply because you disagree with me (white knight).
I don't know how you read the person's post as saying those games didn't have holy trinity, he has no trinity in parenthesis right after GW2. If he wanted to say all games released recently have no trinity he would have worded it differently. You can ask him, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying those games didn't have a trinity as anyone can spend five seconds to see that they do.
Like i said if he meant otherwise he didn't make any effort to make his point clear. he made no distnction between other MMOS and GW2 and just followed on with his earlier comment about lack of holy trinity. he didn't even bother to explain why those MMOS are crap.
If you have an understanding of parenthesis and how they are used in conjunction with lists in the English language I think it is quite clear. True he didn't explain why those MMO's are crap, but then again most people on this board rarely bother to justify their negativity. I don't agree with it, and I never defended it or him for it. Merely your misconstruing his point, and claiming he was saying FFXIV was the only game with holy trinity based combat.
I don't have double standards for MMO studios, I have played games that a number of studios have made. I have one standard and that is if I enjoy a game or not, and if the company behind it supports that game (since I pay a subscription every month support of the game is very important to me). I directly compared my experience in all of those games to the experience I have from playing FFXIV. Sure it is a matter of opinion, but I can point to what this team has done for me and my game (despite its low numbers) and then point to what all of those other studios did for those games when I was playing them (low numbers or not).
And i have also played almost every MMO on the market that is why i am telling you now that it is matter of opinion and you can not use this reasoning as an excuse to generalise and insult people. There are many who would disagree with you because companies like Trion and Anet are also as dedicates as SE. Only difference is that Trion and Anet didn't screw their games at epic proportions so they had no need to start all over again. They released solid products right at the start.
There is no way that NCSoft (actual publisher of GW2 and other games Anet has produced) or Trion can be said to support their games as much as Square Enix has Final Fantasy XIV.
Trion sold expansion packs and long term subscription packs despite admitting now that they KNEW they were going to make the game F2P anyways.
NCSoft has shut down NUMEROUS MMORPG's they have published, more than any other publisher in the MMORPG scene (talking AAA titles, maybe PWI has shut down more f2p titles).
Clearly Square Enix did more. SOE never attempted this with Vanguard when I played it. I really wish they would, I liked Vanguard FAR more than I liked FFXIV 1.0, and my posting history shows that. I originally joined this site to tell people how much I thought Vanguard had improved, and it's potential to become a truly great game after the release of APW with continued support. So I'm not applying double standards (because SOE obviously doesn't care about Vanguard as much as SE does FFXIV, unless you want to argue that point?), Square Enix did much more for me as a customer.
Ofcourse they did more..they had to. First version was a flop and it is only for so long they could keep it up by dumping money into it out of their own pocket. Only because SE has very deep pockets doesn't mean they won't like to make profit on FFXIV.
And why would SOE attempt anything with Vanguard? they didn't make that game, the simply co published it because no one else was ready to touch it after Microsoft backed out. The game was already a mess even before SOE came into the picture.
Because they promised us (the players) that they would when they aquired it. John Smedley went to the airwaves and said We will continue to support this game despite it's disastrous launch, we will not only fix its problems but we will add content and future expansions and give it our full support as we do all our titles.
If the reality was that "they didn't make the game only co published it" and it was "already a mess, so why bother" they shouldn't have lied to all their paying customers by claiming otherwise.
You can say I have low standards because I was both a fan of Vanguard and FFXIV both of which had terrible launches and were dismissed by most MMORPG players. I stand behind my support of Vanguard, because for me Vanguard was a very special game that was simply not supported properly. Luckily for me I found a company in Square Enix that is both capable and willing to fix the problems with their games and not simply give up. Unlike SOE who was content to let such a huge undertaking (as Vanguard was incredibly ambitious and represented the hard work of many talented and passionate people) wither and die without supporting it (until it was far too late, F2P, and no longer holds any interest whatsoever to me).
So please demonstrate how I am a hyprocrite if nothing else? I am passionate maybe about the games I play, and demanding of the companies behind them personally. But I genuinely appreciate what Square Enix has done for me, because I know the frustration and pain of having an MMO I love get the opposite treatment by the studio behind it. So if nothing else I'll defend them for that huge accomplishment. But I also happen to really like ARR much more than 1.0, and am excited about all the new things in it (most of which I wanted in 1.0 but couldn't get due to the engine).
Because the games that might me be low standard in your eyes might be of high standard for other players. Why is it that you have all the right to back up games like FFXIV (which you enjoy) and if others people enjoy their MMO of choice they have low standards? if that is not double standards than what is?
I never said people who enjoy another game had low standards. What I said was that if your standard for a "good MMO" is to have "some new features" then that is low standards. People generally judge a game as a whole (except on this forum), and find the experience enjoyable or not. If someone happens to like Rift's lore and world better than FFXIV, then hey that is just different strokes for different folks as you said. But people who come here and bash FFXIV because it isn't "new enough" and praise X game solely because it has "new features" are demonstrating a lower standard. Now they may also like X game because they enjoy it as a whole package, but they certainly don't say that. And neither did you in your post that I was responding to which sparked this little debate.
Different strokes for different folks. It is one thing to crticise the game which is all right but it is whole another thing to generalise people on basis of their game of choice. Neither you or i are in any position to tell others about their taste and standards when it come to gaming.
You mean generalizing people like saying:
"And honestly you should be the last person to tell us about standards who spent majority of time white knighting the failure like FFXIV 1.0". If you had taken your own advice here, we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
I made a point about how if all you base a game's worth off of is "some new things" that this was an example of what I thought was low standards. The white knight comment came by way of an angry edit after your post and a personal attack on me. I don't even know who you are so I wasn't personally attacking you until i called you a troll for calling me names simply because you disagree with me (white knight).
Sorry but not buying it. The whole comment about 'you people have no standards' was irrelevant even when this whole matter is subjective and differs from person to person. Try to justify it all you like but it was just a personal dig at me and others. Why? because you can not help it.
If you have an understanding of parenthesis and how they are used in conjunction with lists in the English language I think it is quite clear. True he didn't explain why those MMO's are crap, but then again most people on this board rarely bother to justify their negativity. I don't agree with it, and I never defended it or him for it. Merely your misconstruing his point, and claiming he was saying FFXIV was the only game with holy trinity based combat
Hard to misconstruct a point which doesn't even exist now is it? when someone makes a very vague post, one can only assume and try to understand the meaning behind it. I read the sentence again and the mention of AOC and other games crap is just continuation of previous sentence. The most basic knowledge of English language would at least ell you about breaking up the sentence before starting a new one if it isn't a follow up of previous line.
There is no way that NCSoft (actual publisher of GW2 and other games Anet has produced) or Trion can be said to support their games as much as Square Enix has Final Fantasy XIV.
Well lets just agree to disagree here then. Its your opinion and in my opinion Anet and trion are as passionate as SE.
Trion sold expansion packs and long term subscription packs despite admitting now that they KNEW they were going to make the game F2P anyways.
NCSoft has shut down NUMEROUS MMORPG's they have published, more than any other publisher in the MMORPG scene (talking AAA titles, maybe PWI has shut down more f2p titles).
Well yeah Trion had no reason to shut down their MMO because it wasn't a monumental failure. Turning a MMO into F2P isn't same as shutting your game down because hardly anyone is left to play it.
Because they promised us (the players) that they would when they aquired it. John Smedley went to the airwaves and said We will continue to support this game despite it's disastrous launch, we will not only fix its problems but we will add content and future expansions and give it our full support as we do all our titles. If the reality was that "they didn't make the game only co published it" and it was "already a mess, so why bother" they shouldn't have lied to all their paying customers by claiming otherwise.
Support is a very vague term. Supporting could also mean simply keeping the game up and running for as long as it is viable. You cna interpret the term 'support' in any manner you like. SOE didn't screw up with Vanguard so they had no obligation to make sweeping changes. Not even close to the situation FFXI was in at launch. However if SOE ever claimed that they are going to rework on entire game and release huge expansions and content for it, then yeah you can hold them liable but no such claims were ever made.
Simply Vanguard isn't SOE's responsibility. if they didn't have 'station pass' i doubt they would have eve bothered to co publish the game.
I never said people who enjoy another game had low standards. What I said was that if your standard for a "good MMO" is to have "some new features" then that is low standards. People generally judge a game as a whole (except on this forum), and find the experience enjoyable or not. If someone happens to like Rift's lore and world better than FFXIV, then hey that is just different strokes for different folks as you said. But people who come here and bash FFXIV because it isn't "new enough" and praise X game solely because it has "new features" are demonstrating a lower standard. Now they may also like X game because they enjoy it as a whole package, but they certainly don't say that. And neither did you in your post that I was responding to which sparked this little debate.
So you just called me and other people with low standards just on basis of your assumption? i had no idea that if someone expects some innovation and new in MMOS that is some how considered to be 'low standards. Not that i ever said that. My earlier post to him was just in a hope that he will come back after reading my post and would make a bit more effort in explaining why 'expecting something new' is just crap.
You mean generalizing people like saying: "And honestly you should be the last person to tell us about standards who spent majority of time white knighting the failure like FFXIV 1.0". If you had taken your own advice here, we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
Sorry bud but that is what you get when you make assumptions about me and others and label us people with no standards. Actually, if you had not made that generalisation i would have never even bothered to reply to you in first place. because the post you quoted wasn't even directed at you.
But i just had to make you realise that from where i stand your standards don't look all that high to me.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I wont quote because that might make people using IE run out of memory.
However, many seem to assume I only logged a few hours then uninstalled.
What actually happened was that I got to level 30 and asked myself if I was having fun. The answer was no. Then I thought about the why's and the most obvious reason was that I had already played this game before, but it had a different name. If I want to be told a story, I'll TUEBL a book, but when I play a game I want to play one. I dont want to have to go through lines and lines of text. I played the GW2 story and skipped everything and still understood what was happening. So the story is a non-issue for me, but in that game, it slows me down. Then I fight, oh 3 second GCD, just sit there and wait pal. So not only is it not innovative, but it refuses to let me play my way. There is no fun, but there is great thought on how to make people go slow since in their minds, it might land them a few extra monthly payments.
When you say I am attempting to speak for a majority, that is not the intent. The intent was to relate to the majority who are not playing anything right now because they want something new, which I simply do not see in this game. Sure classes have their own flashy skills and such, but we really can't trust a company to actually deliver post-release. What you see is what you get. Sure some of those classes sound interesting, but ultimately, their play style will be the same as in any other game. Rdps, Mdps, Healer or Tank. I dont really play classes based on the skin they slap on it.
Now about innovation. For the most part, you are correct, especially when you bring up innovation for the sake of innovation. However, to me that sounds like defending a bad decision by inserting the term "innovation". Innovation really needs to highlight a vision. It must put a vision forward, not just be there out of nowhere. That is why sometimes some innovations have been seen before and are still considered innovations. Because they bring the genre forward.
GW2 had a vision to make people feel like they were part of the world.
WoW had a vision of freedom.
Sure WoW took a lot from other games, but they made everything come together, it was innovative because it fit the vision of player freedom. If you wanted to jump from a flying ship, you could, sure unless your class had a gimmick to survive you'd die, but you still could. In fact, players seem to leave as they take away some of that freedom in order to ease their pvp balancing, for example, or to force people down specific trees, because its not a 10 dps difference now, its 10000. I am convinced that is part of the issue they have with people leaving.
Also, challenge cannot be a serious element to a final fantasy game. I sincerely hope they don't consider their games challenging, although it seems "this is not an MMO but it plays like one" but it is to them "a Final Fantasy game that will charge the same price as MMOs do". Also, the first three are the same thing. As for refinement, given their actual actions, it seems to mean that they are making small changes to improve on what they have. Its really an empty word when its followed by change. Refinement involves small changes, change can be small changes or big ones, so why not just use change instead?
But the single biggest point I want to correct is that I do NOT think the game will fail. Maybe out of hope, but what I think is that it will not be a success. It will only be a shell of what it could have been. Good enough for their following, but not good enough for those on the outside looking in.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
What the forum hierarchy here fails to understand is that most people don't want anything new and different. People are clammering for a EQ/WoW clone, just one that is not pure shit. Those games are old, their systems convoluted, their graphics outdated. People want a new world to become addicted to for a couple years, and to start fresh and equal in.
Even when you see people trolling forums, baiting against other games and hyping up new systems, they always end up reverting to the games they claim to hate... because we all want/need gear treadmills, alternate advancement, and reasons to communicate with other players.
Oh... and FATES/Rifts/Dynamic Events/Public Quests are stupid and extremely poorly conceived. There, I said it.
I have to disagree with you I think the problem is the older games had more to offer as an example look at EQ2 housing and guild halls the guild halls that you had to lvl up for more assets you could put all crafting stations in + banker,broker,portals merchants the list goes on but I would love to see some great innovation put into a new mmo just put in some of the old things that worked I would love an mmo that didn't send you out to kill 8 squirrels ok so its a change from rats but they are still rodents lol anyway im praying that EQN gets it right have high hopes for the storybricks which should add another dimension to mmos and yes I have played FFXIV beta but apart from the great graphics has little to offer me and personally I don't like a single multi class player I really hope the game does well it seems extremely polished and if I was recommending an mmo as somebodys 1st I would say try this one but as for me ive been their done that worn the t shirt now give me something different
What the forum hierarchy here fails to understand is that most people don't want anything new and different. People are clammering for a EQ/WoW clone, just one that is not pure shit. Those games are old, their systems convoluted, their graphics outdated. People want a new world to become addicted to for a couple years, and to start fresh and equal in.
Even when you see people trolling forums, baiting against other games and hyping up new systems, they always end up reverting to the games they claim to hate... because we all want/need gear treadmills, alternate advancement, and reasons to communicate with other players.
Oh... and FATES/Rifts/Dynamic Events/Public Quests are stupid and extremely poorly conceived. There, I said it.
I have to disagree with you I think the problem is the older games had more to offer as an example look at EQ2 housing and guild halls the guild halls that you had to lvl up for more assets you could put all crafting stations in + banker,broker,portals merchants the list goes on but I would love to see some great innovation put into a new mmo just put in some of the old things that worked I would love an mmo that didn't send you out to kill 8 squirrels ok so its a change from rats but they are still rodents lol anyway im praying that EQN gets it right have high hopes for the storybricks which should add another dimension to mmos and yes I have played FFXIV beta but apart from the great graphics has little to offer me and personally I don't like a single multi class player I really hope the game does well it seems extremely polished and if I was recommending an mmo as somebodys 1st I would say try this one but as for me ive been their done that worn the t shirt now give me something different
Might be easier to read if you added a comma or two, as well as some periods.
I made a point about how if all you base a game's worth off of is "some new things" that this was an example of what I thought was low standards. The white knight comment came by way of an angry edit after your post and a personal attack on me. I don't even know who you are so I wasn't personally attacking you until i called you a troll for calling me names simply because you disagree with me (white knight).
Sorry but not buying it. The whole comment about 'you people have no standards' was irrelevant even when this whole matter is subjective and differs from person to person. Try to justify it all you like but it was just a personal dig at me and others. Why? because you can not help it.
A personal dig? A personal dig to me is when people call someone names. When you state your criteria for what makes a good MMO. In this case "some new things", then my commenting on your standards is a reflection of what you posted. Not who you are. Again I don't know who you are, I haven't memorized the name Doogiehowser, and three years from now I am not going to bring up this thread in some random conversation with you and use it to justify my calling you a Troll.
If you have an understanding of parenthesis and how they are used in conjunction with lists in the English language I think it is quite clear. True he didn't explain why those MMO's are crap, but then again most people on this board rarely bother to justify their negativity. I don't agree with it, and I never defended it or him for it. Merely your misconstruing his point, and claiming he was saying FFXIV was the only game with holy trinity based combat
Hard to misconstruct a point which doesn't even exist now is it? when someone makes a very vague post, one can only assume and try to understand the meaning behind it. I read the sentence again and the mention of AOC and other games crap is just continuation of previous sentence. The most basic knowledge of English language would at least ell you about breaking up the sentence before starting a new one if it isn't a follow up of previous line.
The point you misconstrued was that he was claiming all those games had no trinity. That is a silly strawman you attempted to paint him with to dismiss his opinions of those games. No one else seems to have thought he was criticizing SWTOR and RIFT for not having the trinity. When you put something in parenthesis it denotes that it is not pertinent to the content of the rest of that statement but merely a clarification or additional information being given to the audience. Because he placed it after only one item in the list, at the beginning and not the end it was quite clear what he meant.
There is no way that NCSoft (actual publisher of GW2 and other games Anet has produced) or Trion can be said to support their games as much as Square Enix has Final Fantasy XIV.
Well lets just agree to disagree here then. Its your opinion and in my opinion Anet and trion are as passionate as SE.
That's fine. I gave reasons for my opinion however, you don't seem to feel the need to defend those companies.
Trion sold expansion packs and long term subscription packs despite admitting now that they KNEW they were going to make the game F2P anyways.
NCSoft has shut down NUMEROUS MMORPG's they have published, more than any other publisher in the MMORPG scene (talking AAA titles, maybe PWI has shut down more f2p titles).
Well yeah Trion had no reason to shut down their MMO because it wasn't a monumental failure. Turning a MMO into F2P isn't same as shutting your game down because hardly anyone is left to play it.
Here you appear to be very minsinformed. Square Enix never shut down FFXIV because "hardly anyone was playing it". What actually happened was they were not satisfied with the state of FFXIV at launch, so for over a year they gave people free playtime.
When it was time to win people back and charge subscriptions they offered fans of the game a special discount and during the time that FFXIV charged subscriptions its subscriptions numbers INCREASED threefold. In November they closed the server because they had to migrate the character data of everyone to a completely new engine.
Compare this to Trion with Rift who when faced with declining numbers they butchered the Rift development team (mass firings, which are well documented), and then simply went F2P and threw up a cash shop. You can defend that as an honorable action of a company commited to its game if you want.
Because they promised us (the players) that they would when they aquired it. John Smedley went to the airwaves and said We will continue to support this game despite it's disastrous launch, we will not only fix its problems but we will add content and future expansions and give it our full support as we do all our titles. If the reality was that "they didn't make the game only co published it" and it was "already a mess, so why bother" they shouldn't have lied to all their paying customers by claiming otherwise.
Support is a very vague term. Supporting could also mean simply keeping the game up and running for as long as it is viable. You cna interpret the term 'support' in any manner you like. SOE didn't screw up with Vanguard so they had no obligation to make sweeping changes. Not even close to the situation FFXI was in at launch. However if SOE ever claimed that they are going to rework on entire game and release huge expansions and content for it, then yeah you can hold them liable but no such claims were ever made.
Simply Vanguard isn't SOE's responsibility. if they didn't have 'station pass' i doubt they would have eve bothered to co publish the game.
I guess Support can mean different things, but my "high standards" for support do not mean just keeping the game up and running.
When SOE promised its paying customers that they would implement sweeping changes, and fix the game AND add new content that makes them OBLIGATED to those customers to follow through on that. Instead they allowed us to keep paying subscriptions until it was painfully obvious they were letting the game whither and die (and by that point we were already invested in our characters and a game world that woudl be left to rot by greedy SOE executives).
I never said people who enjoy another game had low standards. What I said was that if your standard for a "good MMO" is to have "some new features" then that is low standards. People generally judge a game as a whole (except on this forum), and find the experience enjoyable or not. If someone happens to like Rift's lore and world better than FFXIV, then hey that is just different strokes for different folks as you said. But people who come here and bash FFXIV because it isn't "new enough" and praise X game solely because it has "new features" are demonstrating a lower standard. Now they may also like X game because they enjoy it as a whole package, but they certainly don't say that. And neither did you in your post that I was responding to which sparked this little debate.
So you just called me and other people with low standards just on basis of your assumption? i had no idea that if someone expects some innovation and new in MMOS that is some how considered to be 'low standards. Not that i ever said that. My earlier post to him was just in a hope that he will come back after reading my post and would make a bit more effort in explaining why 'expecting something new' is just crap.
He was responding to the OP and others in this thread who have repeatedly used the "nothing new" argument as a reason why FFXIV was sub par compared to recent releases. He disagreed and said those games were all crap, and despite not having enough "something new" FFXIV was the better game.
Your response to him was that at least those games offered something new and were "the same" as FFXIV because they had the holy trinity. This made you look like you had low standards for your choice in MMORPG.
You mean generalizing people like saying: "And honestly you should be the last person to tell us about standards who spent majority of time white knighting the failure like FFXIV 1.0". If you had taken your own advice here, we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
Sorry bud but that is what you get when you make assumptions about me and others and label us people with no standards. Actually, if you had not made that generalisation i would have never even bothered to reply to you in first place. because the post you quoted wasn't even directed at you.
But i just had to make you realise that from where i stand your standards don't look all that high to me.
And from where I stand, my original generalization seems pretty spot on since you really have done nothing to convince me any of those games you defended are games you even enjoy. I can write essays on why I enjoyed Vanguard, or why I enjoy ARR, I have posted extensively on these topics on this forum.
I don't really care about your opinion on my standards, I consider them to be high. I consider them to be even higher than yours than i did after your first post because now you are defending SOE's actions with Vanguard and Trion's with Rift. I find what those companies did unnacceptable, it is not up to my standard for MMORPG companies I am willing to pay a subscription for.
SOE could put out an amazingly innovative game and I wouldn't subscribe to it, or invest in it long term because as a company they have proven to me that they cannot be trusted at their word and will not support their MMORPG's in the way they promise to.
What the forum hierarchy here fails to understand is that most people don't want anything new and different. People are clammering for a EQ/WoW clone, just one that is not pure shit. Those games are old, their systems convoluted, their graphics outdated. People want a new world to become addicted to for a couple years, and to start fresh and equal in.
Even when you see people trolling forums, baiting against other games and hyping up new systems, they always end up reverting to the games they claim to hate... because we all want/need gear treadmills, alternate advancement, and reasons to communicate with other players.
Oh... and FATES/Rifts/Dynamic Events/Public Quests are stupid and extremely poorly conceived. There, I said it.
I have to disagree with you, I think the problem is the older games had more to offer .as an example look at EQ2 housing and guild halls, the guild halls that you had to lvl up for more assets you could put all crafting stations in + banker,broker,portals merchants the list goes on. but I would love to see some great innovation put into a new mmo just put in some of the old things that worked. I would love an mmo that didn't send you out to kill 8 squirrels ok so its a change from rats, but they are still rodents lol .anyway im praying that EQN gets it right have high hopes for the storybricks which should add another dimension to mmos. and yes I have played FFXIV beta but apart from the great graphics has little to offer me, and personally I don't like a single multi class player ,I really hope the game does well it seems extremely polished and if I was recommending an mmo as somebodys 1st I would say try this one. but as for me ive been their done that worn the t shirt now give me something different.
Might be easier to read if you added a comma or two, as well as some periods.
I wont quote because that might make people using IE run out of memory.
However, many seem to assume I only logged a few hours then uninstalled.
What actually happened was that I got to level 30 and asked myself if I was having fun. The answer was no. Then I thought about the why's and the most obvious reason was that I had already played this game before, but it had a different name. If I want to be told a story, I'll TUEBL a book, but when I play a game I want to play one. I dont want to have to go through lines and lines of text. I played the GW2 story and skipped everything and still understood what was happening. So the story is a non-issue for me, but in that game, it slows me down. Then I fight, oh 3 second GCD, just sit there and wait pal. So not only is it not innovative, but it refuses to let me play my way. There is no fun, but there is great thought on how to make people go slow since in their minds, it might land them a few extra monthly payments.
When you say I am attempting to speak for a majority, that is not the intent. The intent was to relate to the majority who are not playing anything right now because they want something new, which I simply do not see in this game. Sure classes have their own flashy skills and such, but we really can't trust a company to actually deliver post-release. What you see is what you get. Sure some of those classes sound interesting, but ultimately, their play style will be the same as in any other game. Rdps, Mdps, Healer or Tank. I dont really play classes based on the skin they slap on it.
Now about innovation. For the most part, you are correct, especially when you bring up innovation for the sake of innovation. However, to me that sounds like defending a bad decision by inserting the term "innovation". Innovation really needs to highlight a vision. It must put a vision forward, not just be there out of nowhere. That is why sometimes some innovations have been seen before and are still considered innovations. Because they bring the genre forward.
GW2 had a vision to make people feel like they were part of the world.
WoW had a vision of freedom.
Sure WoW took a lot from other games, but they made everything come together, it was innovative because it fit the vision of player freedom. If you wanted to jump from a flying ship, you could, sure unless your class had a gimmick to survive you'd die, but you still could. In fact, players seem to leave as they take away some of that freedom in order to ease their pvp balancing, for example, or to force people down specific trees, because its not a 10 dps difference now, its 10000. I am convinced that is part of the issue they have with people leaving.
Also, challenge cannot be a serious element to a final fantasy game. I sincerely hope they don't consider their games challenging, although it seems "this is not an MMO but it plays like one" but it is to them "a Final Fantasy game that will charge the same price as MMOs do". Also, the first three are the same thing. As for refinement, given their actual actions, it seems to mean that they are making small changes to improve on what they have. Its really an empty word when its followed by change. Refinement involves small changes, change can be small changes or big ones, so why not just use change instead?
But the single biggest point I want to correct is that I do NOT think the game will fail. Maybe out of hope, but what I think is that it will not be a success. It will only be a shell of what it could have been. Good enough for their following, but not good enough for those on the outside looking in.
You are preaching to the Yoshi P cheerleader squad.
People capable of looking the game objectively aren't wanted.
Crafting was turned in to an end game mop up session for detailing your NPC reward gear much like Tera crafting is.
Leveling is a paint by numbers 'do this quest now' session. One I think will blow up in their face when people get their first 50 and find out they still suck and have no quests to plow through the other 17 50's.
I still think it's one of the prettiest games out there. Races are unique, gear is unique, emotes are elegant. I think they might have thrown the baby out with the bathwater though.
The reason most people on this site won't like it or play it is because there is more to being a MMORPG the lvls and combat and this game has it. It is a true MMORPG for the rpg fans with over 1.5 million signed up to play already. No one cares about all the dumbed down games that have no depth they keep coming out with, there is no future in it.
I love how you don't play a game with RPG in the genre type for the story. I mean really? Do you even know what RPG stands for? If you just want action or adventure there are genres for that would fit you much better. A large part of a MMORPG should be story. It's not our fault you don't like to read them in games. If that's the case you're playing the wrong type of games.
Comments
So you think in order to not be a crap game, all a studio has to do is have the holy trinity and "some new things added to them".
No wonder so many crappy MMO's are released these days. You people have no standards.
I think Duke Nukem had lots of standard FPS "mechanics" and "some new things" I guess that means it was a pretty good game after all. Because you know "some new things" are all that matters to real gamers.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
You are asking the wrong person. You should ask this to person i quoted since for him the only reason all these MMOS were crap because they had no holy trinity (even though they did).
And honestly you should be the last person to tell us about standards who spent majority of time white knighting the failure like FFXIV 1.0
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
No he says that GW2 was crap because it did not have the trinity. A lot of people who play MMORPG's agree with that criticism. You don't fair enough. He never said Rift didn't have the holy trinity, he said not that bad but got boring, and said SWTOR was crap crap crap crap.
I didn't like Rift because the whole world, lore, characters, animations, classes, bosses, everything about it bored me. Not because it was a "themepark" or didn't have enough "some new things".
You seem to think that a games quality is dependent upon it having "some new things", but I think you can have a pretty crappy game no matter how many "some new things" you add to it. The evidence for that is in the recent crop of MMO's who all tried to differentiate themselves by having "some new things" while taking attention away from making the overall experience as enjoyable as possible. The result (imo) is that those games are "crap".
Not saying you can't both innovate and make a quality/polished game (well if you are a big enough studio, which I'd argue most MMO studios ARE NOT), but innovation does not make me have fun playing some crappy game. I get that it does that (for about 2 seconds) for those of you who are so jaded and lost that you are incapable of enjoying standard RPG features any longer no matter what settings/game they are found in. I'm not one of those people.
Also to reply to your edit, let's see my game of choice is still around, my character is still here, and it has improved greatly. I'll "white knight" the team that gave me that all god damn day long, no one else in any MMO I have played (FFXI, Vangaurd, EQ1/2, SWG, LOTRO, Rift, Aion, etc. etc.) has done as much for me as a customer as the team behind FFXIV. So that is my basis for my "white knighting" what is your basis for your trolling, or better yet what is your idea of a better studio that has done more for its fans in the past 3 years?
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
OP only made this thread because the game is gaining traction and has become quite popular even with it still being in the beta stages. He's sad some of his friends will leave GW2 because they are Final Fantasy fans. Also I'm very picky and if I play the game then its going to be popular. I know that logic is kind of silly, but it's been proven right in the past. I don't feel like elaborating on why you are what you are because you made another "OMGBBQS THIS GAME IS NOT MY FAVORITE GAME AND WON'T MAKE IT. IT WILL FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL!" doom and gloom prediction threads.
For you anyone who doesn't agree with your view point is 'trolling'. I suggest understand the meaning of the word because you throw it around too casually. If you know how to dish it out learn to take it too. You comment about 'you guys have no standards' was just asking for it. Now that is what i call trolling and you are very good at it too.
Now getting back to OP. Yes he did mention GW2 and said it is crap due to lack of holy trinity. But he gave no reasoning for calling other mmos crap. he simply followed on after GW2 so it is safe to assume that he thinks those MMOS are crap too because they have no holy trinity. If he didn't mean that then he surely didn't explain his post well.
A friendly suggestion because i have noticed this about your posting style. Try not to get personal every time or generalise people with your passive / agressive posts and you will get a lot more civil replies.
As far as no other company has done as much as FFXIV..that is matter of opinion not some fact to justify your hypocricy and double standards towards others and their choice of MMOS whom you just very conveniently lumped in one group of 'people with low standards'.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
It's quite a testament to how good this game really is that the majority of criticisms are very shallow. There is already a huge following for this game. Friends of mine who only play consoles are salivating trying to find beta keys because the word on the street is that this is the game to be playing.
The next beta is just hours away. Can't wait to dive back in.
Lawl, "innovation." The gamer's snake oil.
The OP's post can mostly be summed up with, "I don't like this game, just cause."
Ok OP ty for writing your biased opinion.
ive been playing mmo's since UO and you wanne kick your opnion down my throat ?
No thanks kid....
I love ff arr and i love what naoki yoshida has done.
So i gonne take my ball and leave now /wave
Not much to respond to as your post is mostly a personal attack on me (ironically, all I said was that you were a troll because you called me a white knight which is trolling "name calling") and hopefully I don't get another ban for retaliating to trolling again.
I don't know how you read the person's post as saying those games didn't have holy trinity, he has no trinity in parenthesis right after GW2. If he wanted to say all games released recently have no trinity he would have worded it differently. You can ask him, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying those games didn't have a trinity as anyone can spend five seconds to see that they do.
I don't have double standards for MMO studios, I have played games that a number of studios have made. I have one standard and that is if I enjoy a game or not, and if the company behind it supports that game (since I pay a subscription every month support of the game is very important to me). I directly compared my experience in all of those games to the experience I have from playing FFXIV. Sure it is a matter of opinion, but I can point to what this team has done for me and my game (despite its low numbers) and then point to what all of those other studios did for those games when I was playing them (low numbers or not).
Clearly Square Enix did more. SOE never attempted this with Vanguard when I played it. I really wish they would, I liked Vanguard FAR more than I liked FFXIV 1.0, and my posting history shows that. I originally joined this site to tell people how much I thought Vanguard had improved, and it's potential to become a truly great game after the release of APW with continued support. So I'm not applying double standards (because SOE obviously doesn't care about Vanguard as much as SE does FFXIV, unless you want to argue that point?), Square Enix did much more for me as a customer.
You can say I have low standards because I was both a fan of Vanguard and FFXIV both of which had terrible launches and were dismissed by most MMORPG players. I stand behind my support of Vanguard, because for me Vanguard was a very special game that was simply not supported properly. Luckily for me I found a company in Square Enix that is both capable and willing to fix the problems with their games and not simply give up. Unlike SOE who was content to let such a huge undertaking (as Vanguard was incredibly ambitious and represented the hard work of many talented and passionate people) wither and die without supporting it (until it was far too late, F2P, and no longer holds any interest whatsoever to me).
So please demonstrate how I am a hyprocrite if nothing else? I am passionate maybe about the games I play, and demanding of the companies behind them personally. But I genuinely appreciate what Square Enix has done for me, because I know the frustration and pain of having an MMO I love get the opposite treatment by the studio behind it. So if nothing else I'll defend them for that huge accomplishment. But I also happen to really like ARR much more than 1.0, and am excited about all the new things in it (most of which I wanted in 1.0 but couldn't get due to the engine).
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
I want to preface my response to this post with this, by responding we are feeding the fire--we prolong the life of a rather useless post that really has nothing to contribute to the discussion of the future of this game. It is obvious the OP has spent very little time in the FFXIV universe/ has done little research on the game and for whatever reason has made it his/her personal vendetta to ruin this game. I understand that by posting on here that I too am "tending the flame" but someone has to say it . . . there's no use debating "neobahamut20" as you are not going to sway his/her opinion--it will remain unfaltering because the OP is already confirmed in his/her beliefs. Lets just agree to disagree everybody and not post pointless rants that pretend to prove a point.
P.S. I'm not going to reply to whatever anyone posts in response to this, or even read it for that matter. Please just accept my statement and move on.
Different strokes for different folks. It is one thing to crticise the game which is all right but it is whole another thing to generalise people on basis of their game of choice. Neither you or i are in any position to tell others about their taste and standards when it come to gaming.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
i laugh at your life.. Final fantasy Reborn is already a huge success.. so go to bed or go play your world of warcraft kiddo.. we dont like people like you because you fail at judging a game that isnt released.
final fantasy Reborn will be one of the greatest Mmorpg with Wildstar and Elder scrolls online
and this game offers nice graphics, gameplay,story and alot more
I am a Final Fantasy fan. I have been playing Final Fantasy games in one form or fashion since I was about 12 years old. I'm 37 now, three years away from fourty, and I love ARR. I plan on roleplaying on the Gilgamesh server and enjoying the game. Already I hate the beta because I can't stop leveling to see the next part of the story, and I don't want to stop. This game will have my money for at least the next two years.
I applaud Yoshida on what he has accomplished.
Does the game do anything new? No. I am waiting for Everquest Next to do something new. yes I can play two mmos at the same time.
But the game for me is like the Superman or Breyers Ice Cream of mmos. Yeah its nothing new but its damn damn good for what it is. I look at it as being no different from when Halo first dropped, nothing new but a damn good summation of its parts.
And for me its all that matters. It does everything I expect a FINAL FANTASY GAME to do.
See you all on Gilgamesh!
Amaare Margolis, Treasure Hunter Extraordinaire!
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
What's the point of this thread besides to cause needless drama and 12+ pages of debate about something that can't really be proven (and doesn't need to be)? Just wait and see.
Until then, have fun and enjoy beta!
You mean generalizing people like saying:
"And honestly you should be the last person to tell us about standards who spent majority of time white knighting the failure like FFXIV 1.0". If you had taken your own advice here, we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
I love how people throw around the term "WOW clone". FF11 was out two years before WOW was released.
quests - wow clone
combat - wow clone
graphics - wow clone
weapons - wow clone
spells - wow clone
music - wow clone
plays on a computer - wow clone
I think some of the younger people are confused on what a mmorpg is.......
Whenever you use the term "wow clone" you lose all credibility on anyone believing you know at all what you are talking about.
Sorry bud but that is what you get when you make assumptions about me and others and label us people with no standards. Actually, if you had not made that generalisation i would have never even bothered to reply to you in first place. because the post you quoted wasn't even directed at you.
But i just had to make you realise that from where i stand your standards don't look all that high to me.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I wont quote because that might make people using IE run out of memory.
However, many seem to assume I only logged a few hours then uninstalled.
What actually happened was that I got to level 30 and asked myself if I was having fun. The answer was no. Then I thought about the why's and the most obvious reason was that I had already played this game before, but it had a different name. If I want to be told a story, I'll TUEBL a book, but when I play a game I want to play one. I dont want to have to go through lines and lines of text. I played the GW2 story and skipped everything and still understood what was happening. So the story is a non-issue for me, but in that game, it slows me down. Then I fight, oh 3 second GCD, just sit there and wait pal. So not only is it not innovative, but it refuses to let me play my way. There is no fun, but there is great thought on how to make people go slow since in their minds, it might land them a few extra monthly payments.
When you say I am attempting to speak for a majority, that is not the intent. The intent was to relate to the majority who are not playing anything right now because they want something new, which I simply do not see in this game. Sure classes have their own flashy skills and such, but we really can't trust a company to actually deliver post-release. What you see is what you get. Sure some of those classes sound interesting, but ultimately, their play style will be the same as in any other game. Rdps, Mdps, Healer or Tank. I dont really play classes based on the skin they slap on it.
Now about innovation. For the most part, you are correct, especially when you bring up innovation for the sake of innovation. However, to me that sounds like defending a bad decision by inserting the term "innovation". Innovation really needs to highlight a vision. It must put a vision forward, not just be there out of nowhere. That is why sometimes some innovations have been seen before and are still considered innovations. Because they bring the genre forward.
GW2 had a vision to make people feel like they were part of the world.
WoW had a vision of freedom.
Sure WoW took a lot from other games, but they made everything come together, it was innovative because it fit the vision of player freedom. If you wanted to jump from a flying ship, you could, sure unless your class had a gimmick to survive you'd die, but you still could. In fact, players seem to leave as they take away some of that freedom in order to ease their pvp balancing, for example, or to force people down specific trees, because its not a 10 dps difference now, its 10000. I am convinced that is part of the issue they have with people leaving.
Also, challenge cannot be a serious element to a final fantasy game. I sincerely hope they don't consider their games challenging, although it seems "this is not an MMO but it plays like one" but it is to them "a Final Fantasy game that will charge the same price as MMOs do". Also, the first three are the same thing. As for refinement, given their actual actions, it seems to mean that they are making small changes to improve on what they have. Its really an empty word when its followed by change. Refinement involves small changes, change can be small changes or big ones, so why not just use change instead?
But the single biggest point I want to correct is that I do NOT think the game will fail. Maybe out of hope, but what I think is that it will not be a success. It will only be a shell of what it could have been. Good enough for their following, but not good enough for those on the outside looking in.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
I have to disagree with you I think the problem is the older games had more to offer as an example look at EQ2 housing and guild halls the guild halls that you had to lvl up for more assets you could put all crafting stations in + banker,broker,portals merchants the list goes on but I would love to see some great innovation put into a new mmo just put in some of the old things that worked I would love an mmo that didn't send you out to kill 8 squirrels ok so its a change from rats but they are still rodents lol anyway im praying that EQN gets it right have high hopes for the storybricks which should add another dimension to mmos and yes I have played FFXIV beta but apart from the great graphics has little to offer me and personally I don't like a single multi class player I really hope the game does well it seems extremely polished and if I was recommending an mmo as somebodys 1st I would say try this one but as for me ive been their done that worn the t shirt now give me something different
Might be easier to read if you added a comma or two, as well as some periods.
And from where I stand, my original generalization seems pretty spot on since you really have done nothing to convince me any of those games you defended are games you even enjoy. I can write essays on why I enjoyed Vanguard, or why I enjoy ARR, I have posted extensively on these topics on this forum.
I don't really care about your opinion on my standards, I consider them to be high. I consider them to be even higher than yours than i did after your first post because now you are defending SOE's actions with Vanguard and Trion's with Rift. I find what those companies did unnacceptable, it is not up to my standard for MMORPG companies I am willing to pay a subscription for.
SOE could put out an amazingly innovative game and I wouldn't subscribe to it, or invest in it long term because as a company they have proven to me that they cannot be trusted at their word and will not support their MMORPG's in the way they promise to.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
You are preaching to the Yoshi P cheerleader squad.
People capable of looking the game objectively aren't wanted.
Crafting was turned in to an end game mop up session for detailing your NPC reward gear much like Tera crafting is.
Leveling is a paint by numbers 'do this quest now' session. One I think will blow up in their face when people get their first 50 and find out they still suck and have no quests to plow through the other 17 50's.
I still think it's one of the prettiest games out there. Races are unique, gear is unique, emotes are elegant. I think they might have thrown the baby out with the bathwater though.