You can maximize profit by dividing up 60$ worth of content into smaller, individual, and over priced pieces of content and sell those smaller pieces on the cash shop.
Can't tell if this is serious but if it is;
I'm no 'ANet fanboy' (look at my post history) and even I can't see ANet just giving a giant 'Bad word here' to their player base like that.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Its possible, though it means they need to be making enough money from the cash shop first. I think the biggest issue they have now is the game is very easy to get bored off. They need to provide a constant stream of new goodies to check out to keep people interested since the game doesn't have really anything to work towards. In that regard, if they feel it can generate enough money from the CASH SHOP (emphasised since poeple seem to forget it exists like "Oh free stuff!") then its quite possible.
Just given about them releasing a steady stream of new features rather then saving for a big patch to me feels like they are struggling to keep a consistent playerbase, or perhaps taking advantage people tend to drop the game after seeing the new stuff and them buying goods from the cash shop rather then do boring and tedious grinding for it so it nets them more cash they feel they can get regularly if they push updates ever other week.
Again, its all whether they feel they will generate enough income from the cash shop with mini updates every 2 weeks over saving it for some large pack release later. I feel how the game is set up, their best hope to receive the most money and keep interest is to focus on smaller updates, meaning a large expansion might not be the best solution for them, at least for a while now.
Again, its all whether they feel they will generate enough income from the cash shop with mini updates every 2 weeks over saving it for some large pack release later. I feel how the game is set up, their best hope to receive the most money and keep interest is to focus on smaller updates, meaning a large expansion might not be the best solution for them, at least for a while now.
GW2's only revenue stream after the box sale is the Cash Shop. The issue is that since there is no 'endgame', GW2 has no appeal after level 80 for a lot of MMO players. To mitigate, GW2 is getting constantly getting small updates to get those players back into the game and use the CS.
It actually was a very good strategy and seems to be working so far.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Kay my opinion is less valid, since I mostly stopped playing. Still. I hate that.
I really really dislike this living story stuff. It is much temporary, if you come later, good luck finding anyone. And then too much focus on seasonal festival stuff, like hop to the bowl and find a lollipop. It's just very lightweight stuff, and when I was a way a longer time I am just tossed some barebone info and good night finding what to do.
Sorry, but I really dislike this living story at all, and it was the final nail in the coffin which drove me away.
I prefer big expansion with coherent story and new stuff over this.
Lame lame lame.
wow...lol now this is lame for many factual reasons.
"If you don't like my opinion, I have others..."
- Groucho Marx
=P
No your opinion is fine, I just find it lame how people [fully] believe the first part of this thread...the article.
Cause at first I was like this will be lame but common sense kicked in a few seconds afterwards "Who in their right mind would not do expansions...for an MMORPG?"
Course that is if we are being [real] and [honest] with ourselves.
So after awhile as expected Colin cleared it up...fact anywho
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I don't see the big deal. They can expand all they like with the current game, it doesn't take paid expansions to expand anything, it's simply the normal method of OTHER companies to get revenue. ANet has never struck me as one of those types of companies, they do things differently. Maybe not better, or worse, but differently. Imagine having new items, zones, and stories without paying. I really hope no one's complaining about this concept, because otherwise: SMH.
I do agree that I want more than the Living Story, but the lack of "paid expansions" does not indicate new content won't be put in.
I don't see the big deal. They can expand all they like with the current game, it doesn't take paid expansions to expand anything, it's simply the normal method of OTHER companies to get revenue. ANet has never struck me as one of those types of companies, they do things differently. Maybe not better, or worse, but differently. Imagine having new items, zones, and stories without paying. I really hope no one's complaining about this concept, because otherwise: SMH.
I do agree that I want more than the Living Story, but the lack of "paid expansions" does not indicate new content won't be put in.
That's the thing people need to realize... the world is designed to be built up, not added on to (although that's a viable option as well). Due to the fact that all zones remain viable due to down scaling and the dynamic event system you have a world that you can expand the content in any zone and that content is viable for all players. Earlier MMOs that focus on gear and power progression have as one of their most fatal flaws the fact that zones are rendered obsolete once you out-level them. If you never really out-level the zones and you never really run out of content in the zone (DEs vs. archaic quests) then you have a world you can expand from within as well as without.
Earlier MMOs need expansions for new content. GW2 can simply add new content anywhere and it's viable for all. So don't expect an expansion any time soon, maybe for a few years. When one comes, though, it'll be kind of a big deal.
Personally, I've the feeling that we may be seeing Cantha come along as part of the monthly surges of content and not via expansion. Just a feeling from tidbits of things said and heard.
Originally posted by Strangerous im not sure they will risk a purchased expansion. I don't think many are left to buy it.
Right and you know this how? Do you play or just come out to be negative?
I think right now it is a wiat and see game on expansions - I think the areas in GW1 will be in small releases and maybe a whole new area would be a paid expansion.
Originally posted by Strangerous im not sure they will risk a purchased expansion. I don't think many are left to buy it.
According to recent interviews they are approaching a new player milestone soon, which will hopefully also come with some actual player numbers to put all that speculation to rest, for a while at least. What you can draw from that interview already is that player numbers are currently going up, not down.
Personally, I've the feeling that we may be seeing Cantha come along as part of the monthly surges of content and not via expansion. Just a feeling from tidbits of things said and heard.
I'm glad someone understands what I'm saying. There is a very real possibility that they'll give the players new, expansion-worthy content while simply updating the game the way they've been doing it. Not only is this a bonus for players, but MMO companies will have to look back and say "Well there go all our excuses. ANet did it." (Hell, since GW2 released, 2 big MMOs went B2P). The amount of content, both temporary and permanent, that they've released since we all paid that 60 bucks is pretty mind-blowing. What percentage of MMO companies even consider doing this? Whether I play this game for another 5 years or 5 days, I'm glad someone is thinking of ME for a change and I hope it influences better behavior from other devs.
I'd just like to add that I'd like to smack a bitch upside the head for some of those jumping puzzles though. Good Lord...
I think the better question would be "Do you think ANet will ever release content worth a damn, and not some crappy temporary living story content that will be gone in a month?"......
Someone made a fine point earlier in another thread. This is what your bi-weekly "content" looks like (dates are made up to make the point):
Launched in November
December patch = Launch + December Patch
January = Launch + January Patch - December Patch
February = Launch + February patch - January patch
I think you get where this is going.......Removing content only serves to segregate new and returning players from those that never left. Considering the ANet marketing team is trying to claim "an expansion's worth of free updates" while dropping the price, I would wager they need some new blood, and stat. Either that, or I would wager the 2 week "content" patches are going to become less frequent, and fast.......or less impressive, if that's even possible.
I think the better question would be "Do you think ANet will ever release content worth a damn, and not some crappy temporary living story content that will be gone in a month?"......
Someone made a fine point earlier in another thread. This is what your bi-weekly "content" looks like (dates are made up to make the point):
Launched in November
December patch = Launch + December Patch
January = Launch + January Patch - December Patch
February = Launch + February patch - January patch
I think you get where this is going.......Removing content only serves to segregate new and returning players from those that never left. Considering the ANet marketing team is trying to claim "an expansion's worth of free updates" while dropping the price, I would wager they need some new blood, and stat. Either that, or I would wager the 2 week "content" patches are going to become less frequent, and fast.......or less impressive, if that's even possible.
That's not an accurate representation of how the content additions work however. With the patches, while some gets removed before it goes stale, other bits remain. So using your example it would look more like this:
Launched in November
December patch = Launch + December Patch
January = Launch + December patch (perm) + January Patch - December Patch (temp)
February = Launch + December patch (perm) + January patch (perm) + February patch - January patch (temp)
And so on. Now, with four teams dedicated to monthly content, we'll be seeing the share of permanent content per patch increasing as we'll see more significant stuff added as each team now has a full four months to be production ready (in addition to other teams working on bigger stuff).
Also, removing content in this fashion doesn't segregate anyone. No one is losing power or the like by coming to the game late and not having things from the past. What new players coming to GW2 will find is new content being added every two weeks with their own chances to get new skins, back pieces, etc. as well as a game that already has the permanent content from the past built onto it. They'll maybe hear of people talk about what was there in the past, and some of that stuff from the past may be gone forever while other stuff will return in the future giving them something to look forwards to (SAB for example, with world '2' fully added).
Originally posted by evilastro That's annoying, I wanted to see a nice big Cantha or Elona expansion rather than this piecemeal living story crap.
Agreed, or that "GW: Utopia" world.
What they said is that they don't need to make expansions to earn money but they need to add more content anyways and preferably more continents.
Living story ain't enough to keep the players forever. MMOs needs to expand and add more permanent content eventually, if they do that by adding new zones for free now and then or a large new campaign in an expansion doesn't really matter but GW2 still needs more permanent new content.
Originally posted by evilastro That's annoying, I wanted to see a nice big Cantha or Elona expansion rather than this piecemeal living story crap.
Agreed, or that "GW: Utopia" world.
What they said is that they don't need to make expansions to earn money but they need to add more content anyways and preferably more continents.
Living story ain't enough to keep the players forever. MMOs needs to expand and add more permanent content eventually, if they do that by adding new zones for free now and then or a large new campaign in an expansion doesn't really matter but GW2 still needs more permanent new content.
... which is why Colin already stated that with the restructuring of the Living World teams we'll be seeing more permanent content. They could very well right now be having one team working on a handful of Canthan zones and use Living Story to open up access to those zones. But new, permanent content doesn't have to be in the form of new zones added to the game (even though that's the traditional means it seems). New content can be added into existing zones just as well, giving more to do in those zones and more reasons to revisit them. Fractals was added right in L.A., and that's a favorite of many now. But, with Southsun, they've shown they're willing to add new zones too, if that's where the story takes us.
Another reason they have to debate full b2p expansions is because those give a much clearer indication of the health of a game.
If they create a b2p expansion and it sells 300k (like their current population) it is very hard for them to manipulate server caps to make it look like their game is healthy.
Another reason they have to debate full b2p expansions is because those give a much clearer indication of the health of a game.
If they create a b2p expansion and it sells 300k (like their current population) it is very hard for them to manipulate server caps to make it look like their game is healthy.
First - who said they are manipulating anything. Is that rumor or just pure speculation on your part? I do know the server I am currently on, US Tarnished Coast, has overflow in any place when big events are happening (that includes areas like Harathi Hinterlands). I don't think they manipulated anything, they may have expanded the servers a bit so more people can play but not the other way around.
The game is healthy, don't fool yourself for a moment that it is not. Is it because you left the game and it must be dying since you are not playing it? If I am misrepresenting your assertion - then I apologize but, if one reads your comments that is what it seems like you are saying.
Another reason they have to debate full b2p expansions is because those give a much clearer indication of the health of a game.
If they create a b2p expansion and it sells 300k (like their current population) it is very hard for them to manipulate server caps to make it look like their game is healthy.
They've been increasing the caps to get more people per server... how is that an issue? Unless you're referring to other games that have had population issues, in which I apologize for misunderstanding.
Another reason they have to debate full b2p expansions is because those give a much clearer indication of the health of a game.
If they create a b2p expansion and it sells 300k (like their current population) it is very hard for them to manipulate server caps to make it look like their game is healthy.
First - who said they are manipulating anything. Is that rumor or just pure speculation on your part? I do know the server I am currently on, US Tarnished Coast, has overflow in any place when big events are happening (that includes areas like Harathi Hinterlands). I don't think they manipulated anything, they may have expanded the servers a bit so more people can play but not the other way around.
The game is healthy, don't fool yourself for a moment that it is not. Is it because you left the game and it must be dying since you are not playing it? If I am misrepresenting your assertion - then I apologize but, if one reads your comments that is what it seems like you are saying.
They've already stated that they adjust server caps up and down.
The game is healthy, for an mmo from 2003, it isn't healthy for an mmo from 2012. 300k isn't going to cut the mustard, the box sales are pretty much done now.
I just went on tarnished coast... it is like a ghost town...
Another reason they have to debate full b2p expansions is because those give a much clearer indication of the health of a game.
If they create a b2p expansion and it sells 300k (like their current population) it is very hard for them to manipulate server caps to make it look like their game is healthy.
First - who said they are manipulating anything. Is that rumor or just pure speculation on your part? I do know the server I am currently on, US Tarnished Coast, has overflow in any place when big events are happening (that includes areas like Harathi Hinterlands). I don't think they manipulated anything, they may have expanded the servers a bit so more people can play but not the other way around.
The game is healthy, don't fool yourself for a moment that it is not. Is it because you left the game and it must be dying since you are not playing it? If I am misrepresenting your assertion - then I apologize but, if one reads your comments that is what it seems like you are saying.
They've already stated that they adjust server caps up and down.
The game is healthy, for an mmo from 2003, it isn't healthy for an mmo from 2012. 300k isn't going to cut the mustard, the box sales are pretty much done now.
I just went on tarnished coast... it is like a ghost town...
Funny, I don't recall them ever stating anything about adjusting population caps. I do, however, have actual observation from the entire WvW community backing up what I have stated. No, TC isn't a ghost town. I'm on DB right now and TC has actually grown into a serious force. No, box sales aren't done, and ANet has let slip that they'll be announcing another sales milestone here in the near future (it's assumed to be announcing 4 million box sales, but that's only an assumption). I have no idea who originally made up the 300K number, but that number has been rectally regurgitated and is not based on fact.
And... this just in... a new post from Colin clarifying the Living World development and the future. When you consider that ANet is actually still hiring and has increased in staff since launch instead of the usual MMO layoffs following launch, that also is a string indicator of a robust, growing game. Anyhow, from the smiling man himself:
"We’ve said it a few times before, but I want to just re-iterate we’ve heard folks feedback on this and will be doing a much larger mix of permanent, recurring (content that can occur again in the future), and more world impacting releases as it relates to living world in the second half of the year. There will still absolutely be some amount of temporary, in particular story-driven moments to help drive the narrative forward. You’ll also see some of the content previously noted as “temporary” return permanently to the game in the 2nd half of the year.
Three additional notes ->
As we recently announced, we’re up to four living world teams now, which means they will have a much longer development cycle later this year to build more polished content, and content that can be more impactful.
The Living World teams are only a small chunk of the total developers at ArenaNet, we’ll be going into details on what many of those other teams will be doing in a blog later this month.
We also have teams working on much longer term projects, which we will discuss when they are closer to arrival.
We’ve said all of this before, but I think it’s good to just put that message out more frequently so everyone understands where we’re going. Thanks very much for all the feedback folks, as always we continue to listen to your feedback and course correct as we try new things in the live MMO space."
Um... game business 101? Every company manipulates data to get a more positive view from the consumer. Hell, your post response is manipulating what you see by adding vague details to give the impression things are filled (which to your defense, its something we tend to do subconciously in exagerating details for our favor). Hate it all you want, but they DO manipulate data, I'd even be so bold to claim every company manipulates information. Ever notice how for the consumer the game will flaunt "How many are playing" (which btw, is usually manipulated by using details that makes it read as more then it is) while to stockholders it will be based off the money earned off the consumer.
Not actually trying to bash on the game with it, just wanting to point out companies manipulate, and ANET is no different. Just because you adore a game doesn't change the fact they are manipulating data to look better, just like you will exaggerate information for the games own benefit.
Another reason they have to debate full b2p expansions is because those give a much clearer indication of the health of a game.
If they create a b2p expansion and it sells 300k (like their current population) it is very hard for them to manipulate server caps to make it look like their game is healthy.
First - who said they are manipulating anything. Is that rumor or just pure speculation on your part? I do know the server I am currently on, US Tarnished Coast, has overflow in any place when big events are happening (that includes areas like Harathi Hinterlands). I don't think they manipulated anything, they may have expanded the servers a bit so more people can play but not the other way around.
The game is healthy, don't fool yourself for a moment that it is not. Is it because you left the game and it must be dying since you are not playing it? If I am misrepresenting your assertion - then I apologize but, if one reads your comments that is what it seems like you are saying.
They've already stated that they adjust server caps up and down.
The game is healthy, for an mmo from 2003, it isn't healthy for an mmo from 2012. 300k isn't going to cut the mustard, the box sales are pretty much done now.
I just went on tarnished coast... it is like a ghost town...
Funny, I don't recall them ever stating anything about adjusting population caps. I do, however, have actual observation from the entire WvW community backing up what I have stated. No, TC isn't a ghost town. I'm on DB right now and TC has actually grown into a serious force. No, box sales aren't done, and ANet has let slip that they'll be announcing another sales milestone here in the near future (it's assumed to be announcing 4 million box sales, but that's only an assumption). I have no idea who originally made up the 300K number, but that number has been rectally regurgitated and is not based on fact.
And... this just in... a new post from Colin clarifying the Living World development and the future. When you consider that ANet is actually still hiring and has increased in staff since launch instead of the usual MMO layoffs following launch, that also is a string indicator of a robust, growing game. Anyhow, from the smiling man himself:
"We’ve said it a few times before, but I want to just re-iterate we’ve heard folks feedback on this and will be doing a much larger mix of permanent, recurring (content that can occur again in the future), and more world impacting releases as it relates to living world in the second half of the year. There will still absolutely be some amount of temporary, in particular story-driven moments to help drive the narrative forward. You’ll also see some of the content previously noted as “temporary” return permanently to the game in the 2nd half of the year.
Three additional notes ->
As we recently announced, we’re up to four living world teams now, which means they will have a much longer development cycle later this year to build more polished content, and content that can be more impactful.
The Living World teams are only a small chunk of the total developers at ArenaNet, we’ll be going into details on what many of those other teams will be doing in a blog later this month.
We also have teams working on much longer term projects, which we will discuss when they are closer to arrival.
We’ve said all of this before, but I think it’s good to just put that message out more frequently so everyone understands where we’re going. Thanks very much for all the feedback folks, as always we continue to listen to your feedback and course correct as we try new things in the live MMO space."
You don't recall it because you don't seem to acknowledge any quotes, interviews, or data that opposes your view. The 300k is based on actual real data. The absolute best mmos (based on the data) have 20% retention rate after sales die down. GW2 is not an absolute best mmo based on data, it is actually one of the biggest flops based on data (only thing bigger in recent years as far as how quickly it became inactive, how unpopular it is on streaming sites, etc is diablo3)
You have exactly zero evidence supporting your view... while I have metrics used to gauge every mmo all pointing to gw2 hemorrhaging players...
You don't recall it because you don't seem to acknowledge any quotes, interviews, or data that opposes your view. The 300k is based on actual real data. The absolute best mmos (based on the data) have 20% retention rate after sales die down. GW2 is not an absolute best mmo based on data, it is actually one of the biggest flops based on data (only thing bigger in recent years as far as how quickly it became inactive, how unpopular it is on streaming sites, etc is diablo3)
You have exactly zero evidence supporting your view... while I have metrics used to gauge every mmo all pointing to gw2 hemorrhaging players...
I have real dev quotes... etc etc
Sorry man....
If you want me to acknowledge quotes, interviews, etc. you're going to actually have to provide some.
Now, let's look at your numbers. You're claiming a 20% retention rate for MMOs after sales die down... which MMOs, what sales model, subscriptions? Source or reference? Even if those numbers were accurate for a top rate B2P game GW2 is closing in on releasing that they've (likely) reached the four million box milestone. 20% of that is 800K, whether or not you personally consider it one of the best. Odds are when you consider the lack of subscription those numbers have a real chance at being higher. You claim metrics, yet show none.
You have real dev quotes... yet show none of those either...
Since the game is not based on subs the term haemorrhage is not relevant, e.g subs are not it's lifeblood. In terms of being a success or not, it makes a profit, it supports both existing, new and people who come and go (I'm the latter). if the game makes a profit with 300 concurrent users (say) then that's pretty smart. Put it this way, eve has a concurrent player base of about 40, and that is more successful than any other mmorg in terms of vision, quality, meeting Player needs (without whoring the game specification to max bums on seats)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I just dug up NCSoft's 1Q13 earnings release for gits and shiggles. GW2 is second for NCSoft in game sales at 21% behind only Lineage 1 (38%) and well ahead of Aion (16%).
Originally posted by Volkon I just dug up NCSoft's 1Q13 earnings release for gits and shiggles. GW2 is second for NCSoft in game sales at 21% behind only Lineage 1 (38%) and well ahead of Aion (16%).
Aion is free to play now... lol
(Btw just look at how biased your information is. It is "behind" lineage 21% vs 38%, which is a gigantic gap, but you downplay that, yet between 21% and 16% you consider it "well ahead")
It's 5% ahead of a game that is free to play.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Since the game is not based on subs the term haemorrhage is not relevant, e.g subs are not it's lifeblood. In terms of being a success or not, it makes a profit, it supports both existing, new and people who come and go (I'm the latter). if the game makes a profit with 300 concurrent users (say) then that's pretty smart. Put it this way, eve has a concurrent player base of about 40, and that is more successful than any other mmorg in terms of vision, quality, meeting Player needs (without whoring the game specification to max bums on seats)
Simply untrue, it is relevant, because they still want players spending money in the cash shop, less players = less people spending. 300k doesn't cut the mustard these days... Operating costs are higher, game development costs more. 300k is like DAoC era numbers.
Comments
Can't tell if this is serious but if it is;
I'm no 'ANet fanboy' (look at my post history) and even I can't see ANet just giving a giant 'Bad word here' to their player base like that.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Its possible, though it means they need to be making enough money from the cash shop first. I think the biggest issue they have now is the game is very easy to get bored off. They need to provide a constant stream of new goodies to check out to keep people interested since the game doesn't have really anything to work towards. In that regard, if they feel it can generate enough money from the CASH SHOP (emphasised since poeple seem to forget it exists like "Oh free stuff!") then its quite possible.
Just given about them releasing a steady stream of new features rather then saving for a big patch to me feels like they are struggling to keep a consistent playerbase, or perhaps taking advantage people tend to drop the game after seeing the new stuff and them buying goods from the cash shop rather then do boring and tedious grinding for it so it nets them more cash they feel they can get regularly if they push updates ever other week.
Again, its all whether they feel they will generate enough income from the cash shop with mini updates every 2 weeks over saving it for some large pack release later. I feel how the game is set up, their best hope to receive the most money and keep interest is to focus on smaller updates, meaning a large expansion might not be the best solution for them, at least for a while now.
GW2's only revenue stream after the box sale is the Cash Shop. The issue is that since there is no 'endgame', GW2 has no appeal after level 80 for a lot of MMO players. To mitigate, GW2 is getting constantly getting small updates to get those players back into the game and use the CS.
It actually was a very good strategy and seems to be working so far.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
No your opinion is fine, I just find it lame how people [fully] believe the first part of this thread...the article.
Cause at first I was like this will be lame but common sense kicked in a few seconds afterwards "Who in their right mind would not do expansions...for an MMORPG?"
Course that is if we are being [real] and [honest] with ourselves.
So after awhile as expected Colin cleared it up...fact anywho
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I don't see the big deal. They can expand all they like with the current game, it doesn't take paid expansions to expand anything, it's simply the normal method of OTHER companies to get revenue. ANet has never struck me as one of those types of companies, they do things differently. Maybe not better, or worse, but differently. Imagine having new items, zones, and stories without paying. I really hope no one's complaining about this concept, because otherwise: SMH.
I do agree that I want more than the Living Story, but the lack of "paid expansions" does not indicate new content won't be put in.
That's the thing people need to realize... the world is designed to be built up, not added on to (although that's a viable option as well). Due to the fact that all zones remain viable due to down scaling and the dynamic event system you have a world that you can expand the content in any zone and that content is viable for all players. Earlier MMOs that focus on gear and power progression have as one of their most fatal flaws the fact that zones are rendered obsolete once you out-level them. If you never really out-level the zones and you never really run out of content in the zone (DEs vs. archaic quests) then you have a world you can expand from within as well as without.
Earlier MMOs need expansions for new content. GW2 can simply add new content anywhere and it's viable for all. So don't expect an expansion any time soon, maybe for a few years. When one comes, though, it'll be kind of a big deal.
Personally, I've the feeling that we may be seeing Cantha come along as part of the monthly surges of content and not via expansion. Just a feeling from tidbits of things said and heard.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Right and you know this how? Do you play or just come out to be negative?
I think right now it is a wiat and see game on expansions - I think the areas in GW1 will be in small releases and maybe a whole new area would be a paid expansion.
According to recent interviews they are approaching a new player milestone soon, which will hopefully also come with some actual player numbers to put all that speculation to rest, for a while at least. What you can draw from that interview already is that player numbers are currently going up, not down.
I'm glad someone understands what I'm saying. There is a very real possibility that they'll give the players new, expansion-worthy content while simply updating the game the way they've been doing it. Not only is this a bonus for players, but MMO companies will have to look back and say "Well there go all our excuses. ANet did it." (Hell, since GW2 released, 2 big MMOs went B2P). The amount of content, both temporary and permanent, that they've released since we all paid that 60 bucks is pretty mind-blowing. What percentage of MMO companies even consider doing this? Whether I play this game for another 5 years or 5 days, I'm glad someone is thinking of ME for a change and I hope it influences better behavior from other devs.
I'd just like to add that I'd like to smack a bitch upside the head for some of those jumping puzzles though. Good Lord...
I think the better question would be "Do you think ANet will ever release content worth a damn, and not some crappy temporary living story content that will be gone in a month?"......
Someone made a fine point earlier in another thread. This is what your bi-weekly "content" looks like (dates are made up to make the point):
That's not an accurate representation of how the content additions work however. With the patches, while some gets removed before it goes stale, other bits remain. So using your example it would look more like this:
Oderint, dum metuant.
Agreed, or that "GW: Utopia" world.
What they said is that they don't need to make expansions to earn money but they need to add more content anyways and preferably more continents.
Living story ain't enough to keep the players forever. MMOs needs to expand and add more permanent content eventually, if they do that by adding new zones for free now and then or a large new campaign in an expansion doesn't really matter but GW2 still needs more permanent new content.
... which is why Colin already stated that with the restructuring of the Living World teams we'll be seeing more permanent content. They could very well right now be having one team working on a handful of Canthan zones and use Living Story to open up access to those zones. But new, permanent content doesn't have to be in the form of new zones added to the game (even though that's the traditional means it seems). New content can be added into existing zones just as well, giving more to do in those zones and more reasons to revisit them. Fractals was added right in L.A., and that's a favorite of many now. But, with Southsun, they've shown they're willing to add new zones too, if that's where the story takes us.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Another reason they have to debate full b2p expansions is because those give a much clearer indication of the health of a game.
If they create a b2p expansion and it sells 300k (like their current population) it is very hard for them to manipulate server caps to make it look like their game is healthy.
First - who said they are manipulating anything. Is that rumor or just pure speculation on your part? I do know the server I am currently on, US Tarnished Coast, has overflow in any place when big events are happening (that includes areas like Harathi Hinterlands). I don't think they manipulated anything, they may have expanded the servers a bit so more people can play but not the other way around.
The game is healthy, don't fool yourself for a moment that it is not. Is it because you left the game and it must be dying since you are not playing it? If I am misrepresenting your assertion - then I apologize but, if one reads your comments that is what it seems like you are saying.
They've been increasing the caps to get more people per server... how is that an issue? Unless you're referring to other games that have had population issues, in which I apologize for misunderstanding.
Oderint, dum metuant.
They've already stated that they adjust server caps up and down.
The game is healthy, for an mmo from 2003, it isn't healthy for an mmo from 2012. 300k isn't going to cut the mustard, the box sales are pretty much done now.
I just went on tarnished coast... it is like a ghost town...
Funny, I don't recall them ever stating anything about adjusting population caps. I do, however, have actual observation from the entire WvW community backing up what I have stated. No, TC isn't a ghost town. I'm on DB right now and TC has actually grown into a serious force. No, box sales aren't done, and ANet has let slip that they'll be announcing another sales milestone here in the near future (it's assumed to be announcing 4 million box sales, but that's only an assumption). I have no idea who originally made up the 300K number, but that number has been rectally regurgitated and is not based on fact.
And... this just in... a new post from Colin clarifying the Living World development and the future. When you consider that ANet is actually still hiring and has increased in staff since launch instead of the usual MMO layoffs following launch, that also is a string indicator of a robust, growing game. Anyhow, from the smiling man himself:
"We’ve said it a few times before, but I want to just re-iterate we’ve heard folks feedback on this and will be doing a much larger mix of permanent, recurring (content that can occur again in the future), and more world impacting releases as it relates to living world in the second half of the year. There will still absolutely be some amount of temporary, in particular story-driven moments to help drive the narrative forward. You’ll also see some of the content previously noted as “temporary” return permanently to the game in the 2nd half of the year.
Three additional notes ->
We’ve said all of this before, but I think it’s good to just put that message out more frequently so everyone understands where we’re going. Thanks very much for all the feedback folks, as always we continue to listen to your feedback and course correct as we try new things in the live MMO space."
Oderint, dum metuant.
Um... game business 101? Every company manipulates data to get a more positive view from the consumer. Hell, your post response is manipulating what you see by adding vague details to give the impression things are filled (which to your defense, its something we tend to do subconciously in exagerating details for our favor). Hate it all you want, but they DO manipulate data, I'd even be so bold to claim every company manipulates information. Ever notice how for the consumer the game will flaunt "How many are playing" (which btw, is usually manipulated by using details that makes it read as more then it is) while to stockholders it will be based off the money earned off the consumer.
Not actually trying to bash on the game with it, just wanting to point out companies manipulate, and ANET is no different. Just because you adore a game doesn't change the fact they are manipulating data to look better, just like you will exaggerate information for the games own benefit.
You don't recall it because you don't seem to acknowledge any quotes, interviews, or data that opposes your view. The 300k is based on actual real data. The absolute best mmos (based on the data) have 20% retention rate after sales die down. GW2 is not an absolute best mmo based on data, it is actually one of the biggest flops based on data (only thing bigger in recent years as far as how quickly it became inactive, how unpopular it is on streaming sites, etc is diablo3)
You have exactly zero evidence supporting your view... while I have metrics used to gauge every mmo all pointing to gw2 hemorrhaging players...
I have real dev quotes... etc etc
Sorry man....
If you want me to acknowledge quotes, interviews, etc. you're going to actually have to provide some.
Now, let's look at your numbers. You're claiming a 20% retention rate for MMOs after sales die down... which MMOs, what sales model, subscriptions? Source or reference? Even if those numbers were accurate for a top rate B2P game GW2 is closing in on releasing that they've (likely) reached the four million box milestone. 20% of that is 800K, whether or not you personally consider it one of the best. Odds are when you consider the lack of subscription those numbers have a real chance at being higher. You claim metrics, yet show none.
You have real dev quotes... yet show none of those either...
Oderint, dum metuant.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Oderint, dum metuant.
Aion is free to play now... lol
(Btw just look at how biased your information is. It is "behind" lineage 21% vs 38%, which is a gigantic gap, but you downplay that, yet between 21% and 16% you consider it "well ahead")
It's 5% ahead of a game that is free to play.
Simply untrue, it is relevant, because they still want players spending money in the cash shop, less players = less people spending. 300k doesn't cut the mustard these days... Operating costs are higher, game development costs more. 300k is like DAoC era numbers.