For me that is just part of the game. See how long I can play and enjoy for free. If I get to the point where I can no longer have fun or advance without spending money, I concede the game beat me, and uninstall it.
I think the people you should feel bad for are not the developers but the poor "whales" who subsidize your play by spending hundreds-thousands of dollars on virtual junk.
These people are spending far more than they ever would have before in a P2P MMORPG just to get all the game has to offer. Please google what being a "whale" in a "f2p" MMORPG really means.
There are stories of wives spending all of their families money on pointless f2p crap, emptying out entire bank accounts. Kids running up their parents credit card bills. It is a serious problem, and I just wish the f2p community was more aware of it.
These are people too, and you are hurting them with your support of a model that exploits them. Now you may say they are just weak willed, but have a heart and try to remember when you could genuinely enjoy a virtual world. Now imagine if someone had placed microtransactions at every turn to prevent you from playing how you wanted. Maybe then you will understand how these poor souls are suckered into spending so much money in cash shops.
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter Who in their right mind would feel guilty for playing a F2P MMO????
If so, they should have their heads examined.
It's the publisher/devs choice to publish a F2P game so why would anyone feel guilty? LOL!
Because for me gaming is like just any other commodity in world where a lot of hard work, blood and sweat is involved by those who make / produce those products. Since i do not freeload on anything else and pay for everything i feel the same about MMOS as a product.
After getting thousands of hours worth of fun i just felt bad because the devs who work hard on these games are actual people like you and me and need salaries to survive. And these salaries come from players like us. Maybe i am more morally aware? but i can assure you nothing is wrong with my head.
You are not 'more morally aware' - you are framing the issue differently (and I think wrongly).
It is not 'freeloading' - freeloading is when you're taking advantage of something provided to you by others to the point that you act as though there are no expectations of eventually holding yourself back or repaying the kindness. There are no such expectations here; the devs fully expect that many, if not most of their playerbase will play entirely for free - that is why the payment model is referred to as 'free to play'.
There is no need to feel bad for the devs - they willingly embarked on a business venture, releasing a game they market as 'free to play'; they are of course banking on some players paying, but only if they offer enticing services - no business firm is out for charity. If you release a F2P game, you know you are taking a financial risk, and you will have planned accordingly. Such devs either work for a big studio which will eat the losses and still pay their employees regardless of the game's success, or they are small indy studios who are doing it as a hobby or side project to their day jobs. No one is going to starve because a free to play game has to close down.
So, your sentiments are misplaced. If you are concerned about the welfare of others, there are countless other places you could direct your sympathetic charity before F2P devs.
I kind of smile at the responses here, this one especially. On one hand, I'd like to argue for giving money if one enjoys a game. On the other hand, I smile and nod and think about the FFAPvP crowd that defeats their own self-destructive desires.
"Sympathetic Charity." Interesting phrase there. It is charity to give money to people who actually work at something consumed by others. Interesting definition of charity. It's not like the companies are on the street corner holding a "will sit here for money" signs.
With thinking like those in the thread, maybe F2P is on the way out? And good riddance, in my opinion. It will probably be saved by the players paying for what they enjoy instead, though. Oh, well...
"Sympathetic charity" was in reference to the OP's attitude more than anything else: "Oh these poor devs, don't they realize that they won't get by on this overly-generous F2P model? We should all pay them to save them from themselves." Spare me.
The fate of F2P is of no consequence to me. I'll pay for a product I feel is worth paying for (I've subbed to plenty an MMO, not to mention buying the boxes). If a game is both enjoyable and F2P, but the game itself is not charged for, only superfluous virtual items, then I will not pay at all, because I'm there for the game, not the items. I am not going to be guilted into paying for something I don't want because someone has a warped sense of moral obligation to a business. If that means the market ends up moving toward other payment models, so be it - such is the world of business.
Edit: The post above this one reminded me of another point; some would apparently accuse people like me of expecting others to subsidize my play by buying these items I refuse to. Not so. I don't think anyone should buy such items. Some will, and the state of affairs being what it is, I will take advantage so long as it lasts. I have to say, the day that no one buys virtual items anymore, I will be that much prouder of my fellows. I'm sure the mmo market can find other payment models to sustain itself that don't rely on such absurdities.
Developers know full well the breakdown of what percent of its players pays what percent of its its total income. It's assumed a minority of players will pay the majority of money. The only figure developers care about is the average revenue per paying user (ARPU).
So no, there's no need to feel guilty. It's how the system is intended to work. Most players DO get to play completely for free, while others pay moderate amounts every so often and some pay absurd amounts constantly. If everyone paid what the top 5% of players pay, f2p games would be making astronomical amounts of money. As is, they generally make a fair bit less per user (have a lower ARPU) than subscription games, but make up for it by making the game more accessible to more players. For example, 400k players paying $12 per month versus 1.2 million players averaging $4 per month.
I'm playing Tera free right now. Considering I bought it, paid 3 months and never took a character over level 11, no I don't feel guilty about running it for a few months.
Most games, guilt doesn't really play in. LotRO I default to prem. I hate all the lock outs.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I have had thousands of hours worth of fun lately playing games like NW, STO and AION. More than i ever had while playing sub MMOS. But i felt bad for not spending a dime and felt really cheap and thought it is like taking advantage of someone's hard work. After all these devs don't work for free and have bills to pay and their families to take care of.
Was i being selfish? cheap? (i did spend some money in cash shop of Aion and bought some zen for STO / NW just to show my support)
If you saw their sales figures (particularly before and then after the F2P conversion in the case of sub games that switched) I promise you would stop feeling bad almost immediately. You aren't cheating anybody. You are actually providing them a service. Whales don't want to play alone, and they need to feel as though their purchase makes them better than someone. The larger pool of free users, the more prestige their purchases are worth. Even in games which aren't pay to win, the whales still get to feel a little superior with just cosmetic items. They look better than you.
The bottom line is, if you aren't the customer then you're the thing being sold. They are selling you, personally, as an incentive to get paying customers to play their game. Whether as a friend they can group with, or a peasant they can lord over with their premium items, you are absolutely being sold.
I have had thousands of hours worth of fun lately playing games like NW, STO and AION. More than i ever had while playing sub MMOS. But i felt bad for not spending a dime and felt really cheap and thought it is like taking advantage of someone's hard work. After all these devs don't work for free and have bills to pay and their families to take care of.
Was i being selfish? cheap? (i did spend some money in cash shop of Aion and bought some zen for STO / NW just to show my support)
Open your wallet you leech and give them your money now:P
No i don't feel bad at all.
Ive not spent 1 dime on free two play sinds first free mmo's came alive or any DLC.
If they offer free two play then for me its free two play simple as that.
And don't feel guilty when "played" F2P MMOs without spend a dime ,
you ready "paid" a lot to play a F2P MMOs without reality it.
for common example "play a F2P MMO without spent a dime"
when you sell "gold/item" that you have spent time to gather for someone who sell you "real money item" , you get paid from him by real money for you "hard labor".
you were happily "forced" to spend you money you get from gather gold (labor) to game publisher through that "real money item".
in anyway , publisher/developer always get they "money" back from you.
If you think you never spent a dime , you are naive .
You ready paid for play it without reality it ,
Of course it fair trade since you happy with what you get.
No one forces the dev to give us free games. If they want to do so, in the hope to lure me into becoming a whale, i have no problem taking advantage of it.
I only feel guilty if I am getting hours of true entertainment and haven't spent any money to support the game. If I am truly having fun, I usually give some money to the game.
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I don't play any freeplay games. Especially if they have a pay to win element like some do. I would much rather have a solid quality MMO with subscription personally. Still looking.
I don't feel guilty at all. If I would see something in the game worth paying for I certainly might. It's not about just playing free either, I've played sub games for years and B2P also. There just has to be something I want.
If I play a F2P mmo for any significant amount of time I'll spend some money.
The games in which I don't are ones that I only play for a day or two.
Same, if a game is worth my time then its also worth my money, if a game is genuinely fun to play then supporting it by paying is only natural imo, i don't really see any difference between time spent in a game and money spent in a game, the game is either worth it, or it isnt, and that ones that arent, i don't play.
Yes, I feel guilty. But still, I don't have a source of income, I'm in high school, but when I have the money, and enjoy the game, I will pay at least a bit. We have to support the developers. I don't like the mentality that players these days set, how the whole game should be free. It's not like we deserve to receive a full product with no fee...
Comments
I think the people you should feel bad for are not the developers but the poor "whales" who subsidize your play by spending hundreds-thousands of dollars on virtual junk.
These people are spending far more than they ever would have before in a P2P MMORPG just to get all the game has to offer. Please google what being a "whale" in a "f2p" MMORPG really means.
There are stories of wives spending all of their families money on pointless f2p crap, emptying out entire bank accounts. Kids running up their parents credit card bills. It is a serious problem, and I just wish the f2p community was more aware of it.
These are people too, and you are hurting them with your support of a model that exploits them. Now you may say they are just weak willed, but have a heart and try to remember when you could genuinely enjoy a virtual world. Now imagine if someone had placed microtransactions at every turn to prevent you from playing how you wanted. Maybe then you will understand how these poor souls are suckered into spending so much money in cash shops.
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"Sympathetic charity" was in reference to the OP's attitude more than anything else: "Oh these poor devs, don't they realize that they won't get by on this overly-generous F2P model? We should all pay them to save them from themselves." Spare me.
The fate of F2P is of no consequence to me. I'll pay for a product I feel is worth paying for (I've subbed to plenty an MMO, not to mention buying the boxes). If a game is both enjoyable and F2P, but the game itself is not charged for, only superfluous virtual items, then I will not pay at all, because I'm there for the game, not the items. I am not going to be guilted into paying for something I don't want because someone has a warped sense of moral obligation to a business. If that means the market ends up moving toward other payment models, so be it - such is the world of business.
Edit: The post above this one reminded me of another point; some would apparently accuse people like me of expecting others to subsidize my play by buying these items I refuse to. Not so. I don't think anyone should buy such items. Some will, and the state of affairs being what it is, I will take advantage so long as it lasts. I have to say, the day that no one buys virtual items anymore, I will be that much prouder of my fellows. I'm sure the mmo market can find other payment models to sustain itself that don't rely on such absurdities.
But if I am still playing regularly and enjoying myself after a month or so, then yes, I would feel bad if I didn't throw a few bucks in at least.
There have not been a huge number of F2P games that kept me that long though (LOTRO, EQ2, Atlantica.. that might be it).
Developers know full well the breakdown of what percent of its players pays what percent of its its total income. It's assumed a minority of players will pay the majority of money. The only figure developers care about is the average revenue per paying user (ARPU).
So no, there's no need to feel guilty. It's how the system is intended to work. Most players DO get to play completely for free, while others pay moderate amounts every so often and some pay absurd amounts constantly. If everyone paid what the top 5% of players pay, f2p games would be making astronomical amounts of money. As is, they generally make a fair bit less per user (have a lower ARPU) than subscription games, but make up for it by making the game more accessible to more players. For example, 400k players paying $12 per month versus 1.2 million players averaging $4 per month.
I'm playing Tera free right now. Considering I bought it, paid 3 months and never took a character over level 11, no I don't feel guilty about running it for a few months.
Most games, guilt doesn't really play in. LotRO I default to prem. I hate all the lock outs.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
If you saw their sales figures (particularly before and then after the F2P conversion in the case of sub games that switched) I promise you would stop feeling bad almost immediately. You aren't cheating anybody. You are actually providing them a service. Whales don't want to play alone, and they need to feel as though their purchase makes them better than someone. The larger pool of free users, the more prestige their purchases are worth. Even in games which aren't pay to win, the whales still get to feel a little superior with just cosmetic items. They look better than you.
The bottom line is, if you aren't the customer then you're the thing being sold. They are selling you, personally, as an incentive to get paying customers to play their game. Whether as a friend they can group with, or a peasant they can lord over with their premium items, you are absolutely being sold.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Open your wallet you leech and give them your money now:P
No i don't feel bad at all.
Ive not spent 1 dime on free two play sinds first free mmo's came alive or any DLC.
If they offer free two play then for me its free two play simple as that.
no ,
Because F2P MMOs without a dime spent are trials.
You only have "real game" when you spend money.
And don't feel guilty when "played" F2P MMOs without spend a dime ,
you ready "paid" a lot to play a F2P MMOs without reality it.
for common example "play a F2P MMO without spent a dime"
when you sell "gold/item" that you have spent time to gather for someone who sell you "real money item" , you get paid from him by real money for you "hard labor".
you were happily "forced" to spend you money you get from gather gold (labor) to game publisher through that "real money item".
in anyway , publisher/developer always get they "money" back from you.
If you think you never spent a dime , you are naive .
You ready paid for play it without reality it ,
Of course it fair trade since you happy with what you get.
Of course not.
No one forces the dev to give us free games. If they want to do so, in the hope to lure me into becoming a whale, i have no problem taking advantage of it.
It is not like they are losing money or anything.
OP
Would you pick up $15 Dollars you found laying on the ground (and you had no way to find out whose it was ) ?
Would my government tax me another $15 if it could ?
Would you donate $15/mo to a ftp mmo to help it stay "healthy" ?
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If I play a F2P mmo for any significant amount of time I'll spend some money.
The games in which I don't are ones that I only play for a day or two.
If I'm playing a f2p and I find that I am enjoying myself then I always buy something.
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When it's a bad MMO that went FTP to save its neck, after lying to people with tons of marketing hype, no.
When it's Vanguard, the last AAA MMO with a soul, then yes.
Same, if a game is worth my time then its also worth my money, if a game is genuinely fun to play then supporting it by paying is only natural imo, i don't really see any difference between time spent in a game and money spent in a game, the game is either worth it, or it isnt, and that ones that arent, i don't play.