RNG is something I hate with a passion, In Aion it was insane the chances of not succeeding so no I will never support a system that uses that .Enough of wasting my precious time and energy to the whims of the RNG.
This thread just proves how people need to do their own research. Item durability was taken out far before release (a year prior?) and it has been RNG ever since onto release. I guess changes made a year ago somehow qualifies as news or gives haters something new to argue about. For anyone who has truly done their research, this topic is beating a dead horse and very old news. Due to the extreme differences in the two approaches, I don't think there is any chance in hell that Trion will be able to change it back nor do I expect XL Games to be willing to develop and support two completely different crafting systems.
There are perks to the way it is now and you can get lucky and get to t3 in one shot but don't let misinformation paint the picture that RNG = casual or easy mode because it is far from at the moment, just different than the original model.
Also this thread's title needs to be changed or thread locked because there has been no "crafting nerf" since the game has been released and is just presented to stir up shit from over a year ago.
To my knowldge it didn't released yet. We want Trion to release the best possible version of the game and thus the crafting system has to be like CBT3 - 4 (with item decay and most possible complexity).
We want the best Archage as possible and if the best version of feature has been in why take it out ? we want itz enabled like it was planned to release.
Trion you need to release a quality product not a dumped down version !
If i get in Trions beta i will make this clear on my feedback and everyone should do same.
Trion isn't developing the game, XL Games is and since Trion is only in charge of localization, a change as big as this one I feel is unreasonable to think XL Games will support. Trion has already stated that any suggestions or changes they may forward along to XL Game will likely be implemented for both regions not just NA. A more realistic possibility is for XL Games to change both the KR and NA versions back to item decay as they are just too fundamentally different to expect XL Games to support both a RNGed based system (KR) and item decay (NA).
Truth be told I would love to see it changed back but I just don't see that happening, that ship has sailed.
As much as i know it is absolutely possible for Trion to change that aspect of the game. To my knowledge ArcheAge is build up very modular, and you can easily switch some systems.
And if you look at the Japan version of the game.. they have changed some mechanics. ArcheAge is at some points different to the KR version of it. Especially the pricing, as i have seen almost everything is a lot more expensive. And well.. Japan is full P2P without a Cashshop in comparsion to the KR version.
May it be troublesome? Of course, because you can't just copy balance patches, if you would actually change that system. You need to look for your pricing, and a few other aspects... so it would be addtional work/time longterm, and it would be a lot easier to just copy 1:1 KR version and just localize it. And i would not even see a problem to take that old decay system along side with the new rng crafting system.. although the higher tiers are extremely expensive with the little chance to actually craft them, and the hugh amount of resources to invest. For the highest tier item decay may actually hurt, and a lot of people may stuck with T2. But that may not the worst scenario to think of.
Originally posted by muffins89 most players don't want deep crafting mmo's. who knew? oh, the developers of 99% of the mmo's to release n the last ten years.
no, wrong
most players don't want to have to craft
but for those of us that want to, a deep and important to the game crafting system would be reason enough to buy/play
simple
AA off the radar
With seeing your Avatar this comments comes to me rather ironically. GW2 does not have a crafting system worth calling it one. AA in it current state is in any way, shape or form a completely different level, or even two, when it comes to crafting in comparsion to GW2. And there is no real item decay in GW2 either.
But ok... it is everyones choice to play or not to play. But i would recommend at least to give it a try, because it is enough different to be refreshing. Even with the economic problems i foresee with the current state in KR.
Originally posted by DamonVile It's almost like they're taking a nail gun to the AA coffin. Every time I read an update about the game I think oh that's too bad.
This update is more or less 1-2 years old. CBT4 to CBT5. The international press just don't look that informed about ArcheAge and Trion does not a lot about it either. The information are there, if you look at ArcheSource or some german sites, from beta ArcheAge players since CBT1/2.. like the player which is refered by this article. And it is funny to look at news article based on player reviews, and not a lot of first hand experience as it looks like.
There has to be a way to balance crafting and adventuring in a game. When an economy is straight caster based, the gouging never stops, with crafters making buckets of coin and everyone else either forced to make a crafting alt to mitigate costs or broke all the time. When the crafting is essentially a side game with no noticable effect on the game, then there usually isn't even a dedicated crafter class and the time you spend crafting is essentially wasted once you get to the end game and find that what you can make doesn't compare with what drops off mobs.
There has to be a way where people who just want to adventure and people who only want to craft can both get what they want without either one feeling screwed.
There has to be a way to balance crafting and adventuring in a game. When an economy is straight caster based, the gouging never stops, with crafters making buckets of coin and everyone else either forced to make a crafting alt to mitigate costs or broke all the time. When the crafting is essentially a side game with no noticable effect on the game, then there usually isn't even a dedicated crafter class and the time you spend crafting is essentially wasted once you get to the end game and find that what you can make doesn't compare with what drops off mobs.
There has to be a way where people who just want to adventure and people who only want to craft can both get what they want without either one feeling screwed.
Decay system plus deep crafting (allowing for unique takes on different items, think SWG but possibly with more features like visual components) plus readily accessible low and mid range materials which are used for the average to above average gear used by explorers/adventurers/other professions.
Following that simple formula there will always be fair prices for both the crafter and the user of the item and demand will always be there. Hell the adventurer could develop contacts among crafters to allow him to just bring in the raw resources and just pay the worksmanship fee.
Originally posted by muffins89 most players don't want deep crafting mmo's. who knew? oh, the developers of 99% of the mmo's to release n the last ten years.
no, wrong
most players don't want to have to craft
but for those of us that want to, a deep and important to the game crafting system would be reason enough to buy/play
simple
AA off the radar
With seeing your Avatar this comments comes to me rather ironically. GW2 does not have a crafting system worth calling it one. AA in it current state is in any way, shape or form a completely different level, or even two, when it comes to crafting in comparsion to GW2. And there is no real item decay in GW2 either.
But ok... it is everyones choice to play or not to play. But i would recommend at least to give it a try, because it is enough different to be refreshing. Even with the economic problems i foresee with the current state in KR.
yeah, gotta get rid of that avatar
had that well before GW2 was released and too lazy to locate a new one
quit GW2 just like i did WOW - after it finally dawned on me that crafting was pointless - 3 months for WOW, 2 for GW2 - yes, i can be slow at times
Haven't played a game with a decent crafting system since Saga Of Ryzom, where all player equipment was player made and even the collecting of mats was very involved - weather, season and day/night made a difference when collecting
Originally posted by Mardukk Won't an RNG crafting system make people want to throw their computers out the window much more than an item durability loss system?
it's not the rng part that's bad, that's a good thing. RNG crafting systems allow for truly special creations. The detail, and depth seems to have been taken out.
I would say allowing the crafters to makeall the decisions on what type of creations they make would make them truly special.
Other than just making gear "what it is" and essentially having armor just be armor of better types, weapons of better types, etc, one could add functionality by allowing the crafters to add positive attributes but to a point they might have to balance them out with negative attributes.
I've always referenced the masters of orion II race creator where you had a certain amount of points that could be put into positives; and a certain attribute could be improved at the expense of greater points. The more positives you put on at some point would require negatives.
and you only have a certain amount of points at your disposal.
Of course for a "gear" system, changes and alterations could be made to better fit the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
There has to be a way to balance crafting and adventuring in a game. When an economy is straight caster based, the gouging never stops, with crafters making buckets of coin and everyone else either forced to make a crafting alt to mitigate costs or broke all the time. When the crafting is essentially a side game with no noticable effect on the game, then there usually isn't even a dedicated crafter class and the time you spend crafting is essentially wasted once you get to the end game and find that what you can make doesn't compare with what drops off mobs.
There has to be a way where people who just want to adventure and people who only want to craft can both get what they want without either one feeling screwed.
Select and do the ones you like and earn money, if you don't like crafting, go with gathering jobs, if you don't like them either do Farming, Fishing, Trading or whatnot.
But this is not the end, you can make money from killing mobs, treasure hunting, pirating and stealing... There are many options to earn an income in AA. Ofc some of them are more rewarding than the rest, but for them there is a risk factor involved too.
There has to be a way to balance crafting and adventuring in a game. When an economy is straight caster based, the gouging never stops, with crafters making buckets of coin and everyone else either forced to make a crafting alt to mitigate costs or broke all the time. When the crafting is essentially a side game with no noticable effect on the game, then there usually isn't even a dedicated crafter class and the time you spend crafting is essentially wasted once you get to the end game and find that what you can make doesn't compare with what drops off mobs.
There has to be a way where people who just want to adventure and people who only want to craft can both get what they want without either one feeling screwed.
Select and do the ones you like and earn money, if you don't like crafting, go with gathering jobs, if you don't like them either do Farming, Fishing, Trading or whatnot.
But this is not the end, you can make money from killing mobs, treasure hunting, pirating and stealing... There are many options to earn an income in AA. Ofc some of them are more rewarding than the rest, but for them there is a risk factor involved too.
I've always wanted to see a game with a good treasure hunting mechanic and if you don't mind also tell me how trading works? ( I remember seeing in a video that certain goods require pack animals, is this the type of trading you are referring to? ).
It's bad when an MMO has crappy crafting. It is worse when an MMO gets a fairly good crafting system in there (all too rare these days) and then takes it out. Oh well, and too bad. Another game to skip.
The problem I think is company's spend too much money making a game...and with it comes the financial pressure to get that ROI increased(return on investment)...so company's make vanilla games to have broad appeal.... like every other and wonder why their subscriber base is sooooo small.
I haven't read all the letters on this subject ,so sorry if ive repeated someone .The thing is crafting should be specialised and it should be hard to at least get the higher end crafting recipes ,tbh I have no idea how many people there are on a server but lets say 20k for a server to thrive you (me) don't want 20k crafters it shouldn't be for anyone ,slightly different but not I don't play rogue/assassin class because tbh im crap at it id rather leave it to other members who I can compliment by being a healer or a tank .it may not have been the best crafting system in mmos but EQ2 did this right it was a lot of time and effort to max out crafting and that would have just been in one line like sage etc.Anyway the harder the better let the crafters craft the gatherers gather and the fighters fight
The crafting system is the same as it's been since release. WTF are you people talking about :
And a btw, if you enjoy crafting, then this would be a good game to play. Crafting actually matters.
Everyone is lazy here to do some real research, they just believe what the title of the thread is and the OP's gibberish talk instead of reading real facts!
Crafting did not get nerfed, it's the same since 4 years, there was a test phase with a decay crafing system which lasted for just 2 weeks. What is getting nerfed is the open world PvP (but thats offtopic and i won't discuss it).
The best gear in-game is crafted, and it is an extremely laborious process.
Not to mention you can craft houses, castles, siege weapons, boats, gliders, furniture, etc-etc.
Name me one other AAA MMO that offers this?
There are plenty of things to knit-pick this game about, but this isn't one of them.
OP is uninformed.
You can craft all this things but does it decay ?
Noone should run around with "awsome sword of awsomeness" endlesly..
Things should decay and break for crafts to become more value..
Think of a crafter type of gamer and a fighter type of gamer ..The fighter will ask the crafter to make him a sword ..the crafter will have some materials in exchange..in these moment the fighter will depend on the crafter but vice versa the crafter to the fighter too. Now the time comes and the fighter recieves his awsome sword. If there is no decay the fighter will never need the crafter again; thats an imbalnce in playstyles which favor fighters ..and crasfters are mostly the more dedicated type of player..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
"So what exactly happened? I'll let KeksX, the author of the aforementioned review, explain. "Crafting in ArcheAge is a really controversial topic. In CBT3 (or 4? I forget), the crafting was really different," he wrote. "There was great item decay, synthesis and all that funsie stuff for hardcore crafters. But because of exactly that, Jake Song and his company decided to put it out. They replaced it with a system that has RNG and not that much item decay anymore; also the item synthesis is out."
Song addressed the controversy directly via his Twitter account late last year. "Most users didn't like the system except hardcore crafters. So we removed it. Sorry," he wrote.
And that appears to be that. ArcheAge, while never advertised as a hardcore sandbox, was at one point shaping up to be a sandpark with a crafting system that actually made crafters an integral part of the game instead of relegating them to the second-class citizen status that they occupy in most of the MMOs released in recent years."
So ArcheAge is no longer a "sandpark with a crafting system that actually made crafters an integral part of the game."
It's really looking more and more to be a themepark with open world housing and RvR. Not a bad thing, for those who want such a thing, but each day new information comes out it seems less and less likely this game is going to really meet the hopes and dreams of the sandbox/sandpark crowd.
More and more, Games like this one along with some other titles in the works are sliding down lower and lower on my to do list. At one point this one was at the top. It's Ironic, the one title I had all but intentionally ignored having no interest initially, is now my no.1 choice. That is FF14. Now, AA is on my Wait And See list.
Originally posted by BadSpockI found this interesting - seems the slide to mediocrity on this game is both sudden and tragic for those excited about this title.http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/11/lost-continent-should-we-worry-about-archeages-crafting/#continued "So what exactly happened? I'll let KeksX, the author of the aforementioned review, explain. "Crafting in ArcheAge is a really controversial topic. In CBT3 (or 4? I forget), the crafting was really different," he wrote. "There was great item decay, synthesis and all that funsie stuff for hardcore crafters. But because of exactly that, Jake Song and his company decided to put it out. They replaced it with a system that has RNG and not that much item decay anymore; also the item synthesis is out." Song addressed the controversy directly via his Twitter account late last year. "Most users didn't like the system except hardcore crafters. So we removed it. Sorry," he wrote. And that appears to be that. ArcheAge, while never advertised as a hardcore sandbox, was at one point shaping up to be a sandpark with a crafting system that actually made crafters an integral part of the game instead of relegating them to the second-class citizen status that they occupy in most of the MMOs released in recent years." So ArcheAge is no longer a "sandpark with a crafting system that actually made crafters an integral part of the game."It's really looking more and more to be a themepark with open world housing and RvR. Not a bad thing, for those who want such a thing, but each day new information comes out it seems less and less likely this game is going to really meet the hopes and dreams of the sandbox/sandpark crowd.
More and more, Games like this one along with some other titles in the works are sliding down lower and lower on my to do list. At one point this one was at the top. It's Ironic, the one title I had all but intentionally ignored having no interest initially, is now my no.1 choice. That is FF14. Now, AA is on my Wait And See list.
Why is it sliding down lower on your list, when nothing has happened to crafting ? This is all miss infromation. The OP is 100% spreading miss information to suit his augment.
The crafting has been the same since Cb4 almost 2 years ago. Nothing has been changed ever, nothing will change in the foreseeable future to crating, nothing has been nerfed, it'a all a fabricated lie. If any of you used google and did some research instead of being lazy buttholes, tolling up every AA thread maybe we might have a decent conversation.
Originally posted by BadSpockI found this interesting - seems the slide to mediocrity on this game is both sudden and tragic for those excited about this title.http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/11/lost-continent-should-we-worry-about-archeages-crafting/#continued "So what exactly happened? I'll let KeksX, the author of the aforementioned review, explain. "Crafting in ArcheAge is a really controversial topic. In CBT3 (or 4? I forget), the crafting was really different," he wrote. "There was great item decay, synthesis and all that funsie stuff for hardcore crafters. But because of exactly that, Jake Song and his company decided to put it out. They replaced it with a system that has RNG and not that much item decay anymore; also the item synthesis is out." Song addressed the controversy directly via his Twitter account late last year. "Most users didn't like the system except hardcore crafters. So we removed it. Sorry," he wrote. And that appears to be that. ArcheAge, while never advertised as a hardcore sandbox, was at one point shaping up to be a sandpark with a crafting system that actually made crafters an integral part of the game instead of relegating them to the second-class citizen status that they occupy in most of the MMOs released in recent years." So ArcheAge is no longer a "sandpark with a crafting system that actually made crafters an integral part of the game."It's really looking more and more to be a themepark with open world housing and RvR. Not a bad thing, for those who want such a thing, but each day new information comes out it seems less and less likely this game is going to really meet the hopes and dreams of the sandbox/sandpark crowd.
More and more, Games like this one along with some other titles in the works are sliding down lower and lower on my to do list. At one point this one was at the top. It's Ironic, the one title I had all but intentionally ignored having no interest initially, is now my no.1 choice. That is FF14. Now, AA is on my Wait And See list.
Why is it sliding down lower on your list, when nothing has happened to crafting ? This is all a 100% fabricated lie. BadSpock the OP is a 100% gutless bold face liar. The crafting has been the same since Cb4 over 2 years ago. Nothing has been changed ever, nothing will change in the foreseeable future to crating, nothing has been nerfed, it'a all a bold face lie. If any of you used google and did some research instead of being lazy assholes, tolling up every AA thread on lie's.
So the devs were lying when they said they took out decay? If you don't think that changes how crafting will function, then you are sadly mistaken. The whole game world changed/will change with no decay, as will all the items in that world, and how they function. If you don't understand that, you have never played a game with "good" crafting or a working economy.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I'm not a crafter but I probably would if it wasn't so boring in most MMO's. What AA had sounded really good but I don't understand why they would change. Basically states people would rather take RNG than something worthwhile.
Comments
As much as i know it is absolutely possible for Trion to change that aspect of the game. To my knowledge ArcheAge is build up very modular, and you can easily switch some systems.
And if you look at the Japan version of the game.. they have changed some mechanics. ArcheAge is at some points different to the KR version of it. Especially the pricing, as i have seen almost everything is a lot more expensive. And well.. Japan is full P2P without a Cashshop in comparsion to the KR version.
May it be troublesome? Of course, because you can't just copy balance patches, if you would actually change that system. You need to look for your pricing, and a few other aspects... so it would be addtional work/time longterm, and it would be a lot easier to just copy 1:1 KR version and just localize it. And i would not even see a problem to take that old decay system along side with the new rng crafting system.. although the higher tiers are extremely expensive with the little chance to actually craft them, and the hugh amount of resources to invest. For the highest tier item decay may actually hurt, and a lot of people may stuck with T2. But that may not the worst scenario to think of.
With seeing your Avatar this comments comes to me rather ironically. GW2 does not have a crafting system worth calling it one. AA in it current state is in any way, shape or form a completely different level, or even two, when it comes to crafting in comparsion to GW2. And there is no real item decay in GW2 either.
But ok... it is everyones choice to play or not to play. But i would recommend at least to give it a try, because it is enough different to be refreshing. Even with the economic problems i foresee with the current state in KR.
This update is more or less 1-2 years old. CBT4 to CBT5. The international press just don't look that informed about ArcheAge and Trion does not a lot about it either. The information are there, if you look at ArcheSource or some german sites, from beta ArcheAge players since CBT1/2.. like the player which is refered by this article. And it is funny to look at news article based on player reviews, and not a lot of first hand experience as it looks like.
There has to be a way to balance crafting and adventuring in a game. When an economy is straight caster based, the gouging never stops, with crafters making buckets of coin and everyone else either forced to make a crafting alt to mitigate costs or broke all the time. When the crafting is essentially a side game with no noticable effect on the game, then there usually isn't even a dedicated crafter class and the time you spend crafting is essentially wasted once you get to the end game and find that what you can make doesn't compare with what drops off mobs.
There has to be a way where people who just want to adventure and people who only want to craft can both get what they want without either one feeling screwed.
Decay system plus deep crafting (allowing for unique takes on different items, think SWG but possibly with more features like visual components) plus readily accessible low and mid range materials which are used for the average to above average gear used by explorers/adventurers/other professions.
Following that simple formula there will always be fair prices for both the crafter and the user of the item and demand will always be there. Hell the adventurer could develop contacts among crafters to allow him to just bring in the raw resources and just pay the worksmanship fee.
yeah, gotta get rid of that avatar
had that well before GW2 was released and too lazy to locate a new one
quit GW2 just like i did WOW - after it finally dawned on me that crafting was pointless - 3 months for WOW, 2 for GW2 - yes, i can be slow at times
Haven't played a game with a decent crafting system since Saga Of Ryzom, where all player equipment was player made and even the collecting of mats was very involved - weather, season and day/night made a difference when collecting
I would say allowing the crafters to makeall the decisions on what type of creations they make would make them truly special.
Other than just making gear "what it is" and essentially having armor just be armor of better types, weapons of better types, etc, one could add functionality by allowing the crafters to add positive attributes but to a point they might have to balance them out with negative attributes.
I've always referenced the masters of orion II race creator where you had a certain amount of points that could be put into positives; and a certain attribute could be improved at the expense of greater points. The more positives you put on at some point would require negatives.
and you only have a certain amount of points at your disposal.
Of course for a "gear" system, changes and alterations could be made to better fit the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Currently there are 21 professions in the game: Types of Professions and Crafting
Select and do the ones you like and earn money, if you don't like crafting, go with gathering jobs, if you don't like them either do Farming, Fishing, Trading or whatnot.
But this is not the end, you can make money from killing mobs, treasure hunting, pirating and stealing... There are many options to earn an income in AA. Ofc some of them are more rewarding than the rest, but for them there is a risk factor involved too.
I've always wanted to see a game with a good treasure hunting mechanic and if you don't mind also tell me how trading works? ( I remember seeing in a video that certain goods require pack animals, is this the type of trading you are referring to? ).
The crafting system is the same as it's been since release. WTF are you people talking about :
And a btw, if you enjoy crafting, then this would be a good game to play. Crafting actually matters.
The best gear in-game is crafted, and it is an extremely laborious process.
Not to mention you can craft houses, castles, siege weapons, boats, gliders, furniture, etc-etc.
Name me one other AAA MMO that offers this?
There are plenty of things to knit-pick this game about, but this isn't one of them.
OP is uninformed.
Everyone is lazy here to do some real research, they just believe what the title of the thread is and the OP's gibberish talk instead of reading real facts!
Crafting did not get nerfed, it's the same since 4 years, there was a test phase with a decay crafing system which lasted for just 2 weeks. What is getting nerfed is the open world PvP (but thats offtopic and i won't discuss it).
You can craft all this things but does it decay ?
Noone should run around with "awsome sword of awsomeness" endlesly..
Things should decay and break for crafts to become more value..
Think of a crafter type of gamer and a fighter type of gamer ..The fighter will ask the crafter to make him a sword ..the crafter will have some materials in exchange..in these moment the fighter will depend on the crafter but vice versa the crafter to the fighter too. Now the time comes and the fighter recieves his awsome sword. If there is no decay the fighter will never need the crafter again; thats an imbalnce in playstyles which favor fighters ..and crasfters are mostly the more dedicated type of player..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
More and more, Games like this one along with some other titles in the works are sliding down lower and lower on my to do list. At one point this one was at the top. It's Ironic, the one title I had all but intentionally ignored having no interest initially, is now my no.1 choice. That is FF14. Now, AA is on my Wait And See list.
Why is it sliding down lower on your list, when nothing has happened to crafting ? This is all miss infromation. The OP is 100% spreading miss information to suit his augment.
The crafting has been the same since Cb4 almost 2 years ago. Nothing has been changed ever, nothing will change in the foreseeable future to crating, nothing has been nerfed, it'a all a fabricated lie. If any of you used google and did some research instead of being lazy buttholes, tolling up every AA thread maybe we might have a decent conversation.
So the devs were lying when they said they took out decay? If you don't think that changes how crafting will function, then you are sadly mistaken. The whole game world changed/will change with no decay, as will all the items in that world, and how they function. If you don't understand that, you have never played a game with "good" crafting or a working economy.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I'm not a crafter but I probably would if it wasn't so boring in most MMO's. What AA had sounded really good but I don't understand why they would change. Basically states people would rather take RNG than something worthwhile.
That's really unfortunate.