It makes sense in EQ, it doesn't make sense in EQ2 and we've no idea if it makes sense in EQN.
"in general" it doesn't really make sense for ANY fantasy world, especially one that'll hopefully be designed as a sandbox where players can decide the fate of their characters.
and when i say "makes sense", i just mean "it matches lore", because honeslty, it never actually "made sense". it always stops in my tracks the utter stupidity of my mighty warrior who can slay dragons with dual swords suddenly being completely unable to swing a hammer. because "according to lore" apparently warriors don't use hammers.. or something like that. some things are just stupid and need to be done away with.
Does it make sense that the majority of trolls are brought up to be evil marauders? Absolutely. And the game should reflect that. But to say that no troll ever did anything else? or that no halfling ever turned evil? it'd be a really boring and rigid world.
Originally posted by Waterlily
It's not just race, more importantly, it's deity. EQ is actually a highly religious game.
Well, seems like an easy solution - require changing deity if you want to change classes. if paladins are empowered by Marr, it makes perfect sense that a Dark Elf would first need to accept Marr as their deity. Or whatever.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Anyone who votes no is a racist, a player character is an individual regardless of their racial background. We are all humans but that didn't deny any of us the choice of pursuits in life, I was born into a Christian family but that has no bearing on my future.
Racists all of ya!! : P Even a troll can detest his evil upbringing, Everquest was ALWAYS about freedom and open choice with factions and relations to me, I would detest the idea that my career and pursuit is based on my race... if I can swing a sword I can do it for good, evil, or neutral (Pally, SK, Warrior) based on my beliefs, not my parents.
Originally posted by Dihoru I selected yes but with the caveat that the class needs to make sense for that race (halfling or gnome type races couldn't be warriors for example as I rather doubt a midget race individual could lift a maul or bastard sword).
The original EQ lets you make gnome warriors and such.
I think restrictions are bad. Let players choose the race/class combo they want and let them roleplay that race/class combo in their own creative way.
Opening everything up to everyone because the customer should get whatever he wants is part of what is wrong with games these days. It's the spoiled little brats who kick and scream until they get their way. It's entitlement.
No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands. Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again. It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands. Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again. It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.
That's right! Don't let the screaming children get what they want! Stick with the plan of having a sandbox world where any combination is possible! RAWR!
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
It makes sense in EQ, it doesn't make sense in EQ2 and we've no idea if it makes sense in EQN.
"in general" it doesn't really make sense for ANY fantasy world, especially one that'll hopefully be designed as a sandbox where players can decide the fate of their characters.
and when i say "makes sense", i just mean "it matches lore", because honeslty, it never actually "made sense". it always stops in my tracks the utter stupidity of my mighty warrior who can slay dragons with dual swords suddenly being completely unable to swing a hammer. because "according to lore" apparently warriors don't use hammers.. or something like that. some things are just stupid and need to be done away with.
Does it make sense that the majority of trolls are brought up to be evil marauders? Absolutely. And the game should reflect that. But to say that no troll ever did anything else? or that no halfling ever turned evil? it'd be a really boring and rigid world.
Originally posted by Waterlily
It's not just race, more importantly, it's deity. EQ is actually a highly religious game.
Well, seems like an easy solution - require changing deity if you want to change classes. if paladins are empowered by Marr, it makes perfect sense that a Dark Elf would first need to accept Marr as their deity. Or whatever.
I could live with a Good, Evil, and NEUTRAL alignment system. Where each alignment had certain deities within it..? But some races should NEVER be allowed to reach Good, or Evil, Neutral is the middle ground i'd say. And there needs to be some type of benefit to being straight good/evil vs. becoming or being neutral/agnostic and vise versa. So let's say it goes like this: High Elves can be Good Lawful, Good Neutral, Good Chaotic, and Neutral Good - but they cannot wade into any Evil alignments ever. This would allow some flexibility for those that like choice and stay within the realm of the game lore; it would also work cool with factions. For this to work, there needs to be major factions and benefits/drawbacks tied to the ALIGNMENT of characters. Alignment could be changed through questing and slaying enough opposite aligned creatures perhaps. Thoughts?
Originally posted by Dihoru Yes, to be more readily empathized with they should have some human traits (jealousy, greed, avarice, kindness, caring, etc), all fantasy fiction does this unless it is the sub standard type which wants to dehumanize its villains.
For you perhaps.
I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy
Sometimes, especially in an entertainment area, it is nice to not have to worry about gray areas. It is relaxing to have clear cut lines drawn and adhered to. Sometimes, people actually yearn for clear cut black and white.
I understand you like gray areas. I do too, in some games. Do you understand not everyone does? EQ was not about gray areas. It was about clear cut definitions, Humans being the exception. Will EQN be this? Who knows...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
High Elves can be Good Lawful, Good Neutral, Good Chaotic, and Neutral Good - but they cannot wade into any Evil alignments ever.
I just can't really get behind a world in which every member of a certain race is guarateed to be morally good regardless of their actions. Or vice versa. What is the point of doing anything at all - of being a hero, of helping people, of saving the world - if you still remain a morally good person even if you don't do any of that? It makes no sense to me and it's not the sort of world I would prefer to be part of.
Oh hey, i was born an elf - WIN! I am now guaranteed to have lived a good and righteous life. No need to do anything. Might as well kill myself now.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy
Cruella de Vil?
I can't think of any non-Disney villains who are quite so cardboard, right offhand. Elucidate?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Opening everything up to everyone because the customer should get whatever he wants is part of what is wrong with games these days. It's the spoiled little brats who kick and scream until they get their way. It's entitlement.
No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands. Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again. It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.
-reveals his inquisitorial seal- I find your lack of faith in His Majesty's subjects disturbing. You are hereby place under inquisitorial custody until such a time as I find your person devoid of taint or the touch of the Warp.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Originally posted by Dihoru Yes, to be more readily empathized with they should have some human traits (jealousy, greed, avarice, kindness, caring, etc), all fantasy fiction does this unless it is the sub standard type which wants to dehumanize its villains.
For you perhaps.
I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy
Sometimes, especially in an entertainment area, it is nice to not have to worry about gray areas. It is relaxing to have clear cut lines drawn and adhered to. Sometimes, people actually yearn for clear cut black and white.
I understand you like gray areas. I do too, in some games. Do you understand not everyone does? EQ was not about gray areas. It was about clear cut definitions, Humans being the exception. Will EQN be this? Who knows...
Name an example of good fantasy where the villain did not have human characteristics? (Sauron was prideful, that led to his downfall both in the past and in the LotR books present timeline).
Originally posted by Yamota No, unless a gnome warrior get heavy penalties to damage compared to a troll warrior but the opposite for dexterity.
But someone who wants every race to be every class doesn't want any penalties. They want it all now.
"They want it all now"
C'mon, wayne, you're better than that. Playing the instant gratification card. Shame on you, man.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by AlBQuirky For you perhaps.I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy
Cruella de Vil?I can't think of any non-Disney villains who are quite so cardboard, right offhand. Elucidate?
LOL Good ol' Cruella
Sauron, the Orcs, and Trolls from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. The Enemy and The Valheru from Feist's Midkemia series of books. Lord Meron and Kylara from McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern books. The Piper, Amalgamated Mining, and the Kleevi from McCaffrey's Acorna the Unicorn Girl books. Queen Achren, Arawn - Death Lord, and The Horned King in Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain books. Voldemort in Rowlings Harry Potter books.
Shall I continue?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Dihoru Name an example of good fantasy where the villain did not have human characteristics? (Sauron was prideful, that led to his downfall both in the past and in the LotR books present timeline).
Melkor/Morgath in Tolkein's Middle Earth. "Melkor was the most powerful of the Ainur, but turned to darkness and became Morgoth, the definitive antagonist of Arda from whom all evil in the world of Middle-earth ultimately stems. Sauron, one of the Maiar of Aul
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Name an example of good fantasy where the villain did not have human characteristics? (Sauron was prideful, that led to his downfall both in the past and in the LotR books present timeline).
The Joker (who despite being a fairly interesting character, is not terribly deep motivationally).
I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy
Cruella de Vil?
I can't think of any non-Disney villains who are quite so cardboard, right offhand. Elucidate?
LOL Good ol' Cruella
Sauron, the Orcs, and Trolls from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. The Enemy and The Valheru from Feist's Midkemia series of books. Lord Meron and Kylara from McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern books. The Piper, Amalgamated Mining, and the Kleevi from McCaffrey's Acorna the Unicorn Girl books. Queen Achren, Arawn - Death Lord, and The Horned King in Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain books. Voldemort in Rowlings Harry Potter books.
Shall I continue?
LOL... voldemort lacking human characteristics... dude... you need to learn how to analyse books better... Voldemort is the textbook example of a non-powerless smeagol, he is the individual who thirsted for power and who's thirst only grew from (if I remember correctly) the abuse of the people who raised him as a child... not to mention being shun by his own father.
Originally posted by Antiquated
Originally posted by Dihoru
Name an example of good fantasy where the villain did not have human characteristics? (Sauron was prideful, that led to his downfall both in the past and in the LotR books present timeline).
The Joker (who despite being a fairly interesting character, is not terribly deep motivationally).
1. Depending on which timeline you take (the comic books or the recent Heath Ledger movie) he is either:
a) a former criminal driven insane by chemical exposure (which while not easy to understand still is human, who wouldn't lose their marbles after being dunked completely in corrosive chemicals).
b) driven insane by his sociopath father's abuse ( "lets put a smile on that face", remember that quote?).
In either of those cases you're still dealing with a human which while warped and evil is still understandable. You need to give me an example of something which can only be hated and not understood at all.
You need to give me an example of something which can only be hated and not understood at all.
Well, I'm not really into theology...urp, even Satan has a partially sympathetic side, don't he?
Which son does not want to surpass his father? Think in the Bible (or some versions of it) it is called the sin of Pride and Satan's actual name is Lucifer, first of the Archangels (now that you point it out I kinda see what game's workshop did with Horus's betrayal of the God-Emperor in the Warhammer 40.000 mythos).
I do think it would be cool for certain races to gain both racial faction and alignment with other class guilds thru quests and so forth to eventually be able to become say a necro if they were a high elf. I think the process should be grueling though, and not something you could choose at character creation.
Opening everything up to everyone because the customer should get whatever he wants is part of what is wrong with games these days. It's the spoiled little brats who kick and scream until they get their way. It's entitlement.
No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands. Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again. It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.
How does more freedom on class / race combinations have anything to do with entitlement?
You could easily reverse this statement back around on you. "People who think classes should not have any race restrictions are just being brats trying to take what they like about other games and force their preferences on other people. The devs should not cave to these people who think their entitled to getting what they want".
See how that works?
This rant to me sounds more like you enjoy talking about "entitlement" even in subjects that have nothing to do with it. We're not talking about loot hand outs and free houses. We're talking about character customization. Get a grip.
Also, I think more freedom is better, but EQ and EQ2 had class/race restrictions. I expect them to be following suite with this game, and I don't think either choice is detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.
Comments
It makes sense in EQ, it doesn't make sense in EQ2 and we've no idea if it makes sense in EQN.
"in general" it doesn't really make sense for ANY fantasy world, especially one that'll hopefully be designed as a sandbox where players can decide the fate of their characters.
and when i say "makes sense", i just mean "it matches lore", because honeslty, it never actually "made sense". it always stops in my tracks the utter stupidity of my mighty warrior who can slay dragons with dual swords suddenly being completely unable to swing a hammer. because "according to lore" apparently warriors don't use hammers.. or something like that. some things are just stupid and need to be done away with.
Does it make sense that the majority of trolls are brought up to be evil marauders? Absolutely. And the game should reflect that. But to say that no troll ever did anything else? or that no halfling ever turned evil? it'd be a really boring and rigid world.
Originally posted by Waterlily
It's not just race, more importantly, it's deity. EQ is actually a highly religious game.
Well, seems like an easy solution - require changing deity if you want to change classes. if paladins are empowered by Marr, it makes perfect sense that a Dark Elf would first need to accept Marr as their deity. Or whatever.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Anyone who votes no is a racist, a player character is an individual regardless of their racial background. We are all humans but that didn't deny any of us the choice of pursuits in life, I was born into a Christian family but that has no bearing on my future.
Racists all of ya!! : P Even a troll can detest his evil upbringing, Everquest was ALWAYS about freedom and open choice with factions and relations to me, I would detest the idea that my career and pursuit is based on my race... if I can swing a sword I can do it for good, evil, or neutral (Pally, SK, Warrior) based on my beliefs, not my parents.
The original EQ lets you make gnome warriors and such.
I think restrictions are bad. Let players choose the race/class combo they want and let them roleplay that race/class combo in their own creative way.
I vote yes.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Opening everything up to everyone because the customer should get whatever he wants is part of what is wrong with games these days. It's the spoiled little brats who kick and scream until they get their way. It's entitlement.
No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands. Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again. It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That's right! Don't let the screaming children get what they want! Stick with the plan of having a sandbox world where any combination is possible! RAWR!
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I could live with a Good, Evil, and NEUTRAL alignment system. Where each alignment had certain deities within it..? But some races should NEVER be allowed to reach Good, or Evil, Neutral is the middle ground i'd say. And there needs to be some type of benefit to being straight good/evil vs. becoming or being neutral/agnostic and vise versa. So let's say it goes like this: High Elves can be Good Lawful, Good Neutral, Good Chaotic, and Neutral Good - but they cannot wade into any Evil alignments ever. This would allow some flexibility for those that like choice and stay within the realm of the game lore; it would also work cool with factions. For this to work, there needs to be major factions and benefits/drawbacks tied to the ALIGNMENT of characters. Alignment could be changed through questing and slaying enough opposite aligned creatures perhaps. Thoughts?
I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy
Sometimes, especially in an entertainment area, it is nice to not have to worry about gray areas. It is relaxing to have clear cut lines drawn and adhered to. Sometimes, people actually yearn for clear cut black and white.
I understand you like gray areas. I do too, in some games. Do you understand not everyone does? EQ was not about gray areas. It was about clear cut definitions, Humans being the exception. Will EQN be this? Who knows...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You know that by indicating your own vote, you only provide incentive to the contrarians, right?
Never mind, most all poll-creators editorialize their biases somewhere in the text.
I just can't really get behind a world in which every member of a certain race is guarateed to be morally good regardless of their actions. Or vice versa. What is the point of doing anything at all - of being a hero, of helping people, of saving the world - if you still remain a morally good person even if you don't do any of that? It makes no sense to me and it's not the sort of world I would prefer to be part of.
Oh hey, i was born an elf - WIN! I am now guaranteed to have lived a good and righteous life. No need to do anything. Might as well kill myself now.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Cruella de Vil?
I can't think of any non-Disney villains who are quite so cardboard, right offhand. Elucidate?
You can blame it all on Gary Gygax and the average teenager's simple grasp of Lawful Stupid way back in 1st Ed. paladins.
I voted yes because that brings a big limitation for the game and players, what if i want to be a tank with a small race?
Though i also believe would be good and lore wise if each race has bonuses that would benefit some classes that fit better with the given race.
That way you have freedom of choice to be whatever you want, but you know that each race is better for some classes then others.
But someone who wants every race to be every class doesn't want any penalties. They want it all now.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
-reveals his inquisitorial seal- I find your lack of faith in His Majesty's subjects disturbing. You are hereby place under inquisitorial custody until such a time as I find your person devoid of taint or the touch of the Warp.
Name an example of good fantasy where the villain did not have human characteristics? (Sauron was prideful, that led to his downfall both in the past and in the LotR books present timeline).
"They want it all now"
C'mon, wayne, you're better than that. Playing the instant gratification card. Shame on you, man.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Sauron, the Orcs, and Trolls from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.
The Enemy and The Valheru from Feist's Midkemia series of books.
Lord Meron and Kylara from McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern books.
The Piper, Amalgamated Mining, and the Kleevi from McCaffrey's Acorna the Unicorn Girl books.
Queen Achren, Arawn - Death Lord, and The Horned King in Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain books.
Voldemort in Rowlings Harry Potter books.
Shall I continue?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"Melkor was the most powerful of the Ainur, but turned to darkness and became Morgoth, the definitive antagonist of Arda from whom all evil in the world of Middle-earth ultimately stems. Sauron, one of the Maiar of Aul
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The Joker (who despite being a fairly interesting character, is not terribly deep motivationally).
LOL... voldemort lacking human characteristics... dude... you need to learn how to analyse books better... Voldemort is the textbook example of a non-powerless smeagol, he is the individual who thirsted for power and who's thirst only grew from (if I remember correctly) the abuse of the people who raised him as a child... not to mention being shun by his own father.
1. Depending on which timeline you take (the comic books or the recent Heath Ledger movie) he is either:
a) a former criminal driven insane by chemical exposure (which while not easy to understand still is human, who wouldn't lose their marbles after being dunked completely in corrosive chemicals).
b) driven insane by his sociopath father's abuse ( "lets put a smile on that face", remember that quote?).
In either of those cases you're still dealing with a human which while warped and evil is still understandable. You need to give me an example of something which can only be hated and not understood at all.
Never read the Silmarillion?
Well, I'm not really into theology...urp, even Satan has a partially sympathetic side, don't he?
Which son does not want to surpass his father? Think in the Bible (or some versions of it) it is called the sin of Pride and Satan's actual name is Lucifer, first of the Archangels (now that you point it out I kinda see what game's workshop did with Horus's betrayal of the God-Emperor in the Warhammer 40.000 mythos).
I voted no because it defies logic and lore.
I do think it would be cool for certain races to gain both racial faction and alignment with other class guilds thru quests and so forth to eventually be able to become say a necro if they were a high elf. I think the process should be grueling though, and not something you could choose at character creation.
How does more freedom on class / race combinations have anything to do with entitlement?
You could easily reverse this statement back around on you. "People who think classes should not have any race restrictions are just being brats trying to take what they like about other games and force their preferences on other people. The devs should not cave to these people who think their entitled to getting what they want".
See how that works?
This rant to me sounds more like you enjoy talking about "entitlement" even in subjects that have nothing to do with it. We're not talking about loot hand outs and free houses. We're talking about character customization. Get a grip.
Also, I think more freedom is better, but EQ and EQ2 had class/race restrictions. I expect them to be following suite with this game, and I don't think either choice is detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.
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