To answer the OP's question, I think there should be a separate server for roleplayers. Racial restrictions and other purely role-playing rules can be enforced there. Those who don't care about a certain lore as much can play on regular servers.
Why a separate server for role-players? I'm pretty sure hardcore role-players are very few in number. Most people probably don't care for the RP rulesets.
A better poll would have been to ask how extreme people want their role-playing in EQ Next
Because it's in the story of everquest. It's not your story to change.
Well, it's also the story of Everquest that according to most recent history - (as per EQ2) - all playable races can change their alignment by performing certain actions.
It's already been hinted at though, that EQN will not be following the EQ/EQ2 timeline, so we can throw all that stuff out the window.
You may be right. I have no idea what the lore for EQN will be. If it's like EQ2 where no one really worships any diety and perhaps some races were not created by certain gods at all, then any race/class will work.
I went with no, but if it's decided that halfling warriors are acceptable, they should be appropriately handicapped either in terms of weapons they can use or reduced stats. Just ruins the immersion to think they can really hold their own against a competent half orc.
DAOC handled this pretty well where each "race" had different variations in their stats that made them better with weapons of a particular type, and... some races just could not be certain classes for a variety of lore, alignment or stat reasons.
I think the EQ franchise has more or less been like this as well and I hope they maintain it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Dihoru I answered that question before, now could you try not to sound like your grasping at straws? The mirror test is quite simple: If an animal can recognize its own reflection then it has the basis of self-awareness. Primates such as chimps and gorillas have passed this test, animals such as cats have not.Also if we're going into SF with geodic and energy-based lifeforms let me know, I have been waiting for someone to talk to on that subject ^^.
I have been dutifully dancing to your steps all along. I've let you take the conversation where you wanted. Talking real world concepts in a fantasy world, which is what this thread about is nonsense. I've tried steering things back on topic, but you insist on debating real world concepts. I am not giving up on those concepts. I just feel they have gone on long enough here in this discussion. I make 2-4 points, you grasp at 1 and try to debate it. I am not dancing to your tune any more. Do not take this as my inability to defend my points. It is just pointless in this thread and has gone on long enough.
I do have a feeling we could have a lively and agreeable discussion about other forms of life, though Not for this topic, though.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
You may be right. I have no idea what the lore for EQN will be. If it's like EQ2 where no one really worships any diety and perhaps some races were not created by certain gods at all, then any race/class will work.
just wanted to inform you on a couple of things since i'm guessing you don't play eq2:
EQ2 has good, evil and neutral deities that can only be worshipped by the appropriate good/evil alignments. (there is a trick to continue worshipping same deity after you betray, but it's just that - a trick, not design).
races creation history in EQ2 remains the same as EQ1 afaik. and evil races have to start as evil, in evil-aligned cities. there is just the opportunity to become good if you work at it hard enough.
some new developments have come to light that have - for example - made Ratonga no longer evil, since it was discovered that they were exiled due to a betrayal.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I went with no, but if it's decided that halfling warriors are acceptable, they should be appropriately handicapped either in terms of weapons they can use or reduced stats. Just ruins the immersion to think they can really hold their own against a competent half orc.
I would agree with this, except for.. magic. My human's raw Strength is like.. 5. My human's strength after i put on my magical equipment and cast my spells is 5000. In a world such as this, does it really matter if you're born with weak arms? (The same is true for dexterity and other racial limitations.).
In a world without magic, i would agree with you though.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I went with no, but if it's decided that halfling warriors are acceptable, they should be appropriately handicapped either in terms of weapons they can use or reduced stats. Just ruins the immersion to think they can really hold their own against a competent half orc.
I would agree with this, except for.. magic. My human's raw Strength is like.. 5. My human's strength after i put on my magical equipment and cast my spells is 5000. In a world such as this, does it really matter if you're born with weak arms? (The same is true for dexterity and other racial limitations.).
In a world without magic, i would agree with you though.
Fuck it, just make magic dangerous like it is in Dragon Age and done ! XD (I am joking)
Although I leave it up to the developers to develop their games.
I like having restrictions. The issue is where do you draw the lines. Hence my comment before.
1. There is always going to be the group that cries, "Why cant my orc be a high INT Light Magic caster.". Nothing you can do about it except tell them, "Too bad, so sad, go play something else.". Then duck the flying debris. This falls into the, "No matter what you do, somebody will hate" Category.
2. Where I see issues arising is again, the lines. Elves cant cast necro? Well what about Dark Elves? Why couldn't orcs, which spawn from the earth, (spores most commonly), cast some sort or earth magic? Yes yes, it begins to go around and around. I see one answer being lots of different "types" of classes, or maybe many facets to each class. I see a system like City of Heroes. Which leads us to the problem in that system.
3. The system in City of Heroes lead to having lots of characters, Alts. Many didn't like it then, and found it restricting. Now I think even less like it, myself included.
In closing, this is one of those things that even though I have feelings on one side, I tend to just take what I am given and go with it. Not a mechanic that is game breaking, more a matter of aesthetics.
To answer the OP's question, I think there should be a separate server for roleplayers. Racial restrictions and other purely role-playing rules can be enforced there. Those who don't care about a certain lore as much can play on regular servers.
Why a separate server for role-players? I'm pretty sure hardcore role-players are very few in number. Most people probably don't care for the RP rulesets.
A better poll would have been to ask how extreme people want their role-playing in EQ Next
To answer the OP's question, I think there should be a separate server for roleplayers. Racial restrictions and other purely role-playing rules can be enforced there. Those who don't care about a certain lore as much can play on regular servers.
Why a separate server for role-players? I'm pretty sure hardcore role-players are very few in number. Most people probably don't care for the RP rulesets.
A better poll would have been to ask how extreme people want their role-playing in EQ Next
+1 Bravo
Role-playing is about playing the game in-character. I would very much like an RP ruleset server that is strictly enforced. This has absolutely nothing to do with your character development choices being limited. Your character doesn't need to be defined as 100% evil in order to be able to roleplay. If anything, it would severely hinder your ability to do so.
The more freedom of choice there is for characters, the better the roleplaying environment tends to be. The more restrictions are placed on characters, the more you end up with people spamming emotes all day instead of actually playing their characters.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I know absolutely nothing about the lore of Everquest. So consider that when I answer "Yes". My instinct is to err on the side of "more options and customizations".
But when such questions arise, I also like to err on the side of "stick to the lore" or "create a reason why the lore can be changed". So if the lore would normally prevent races from accessing all classes, then I would change my answer to "no, go find other interesting ways to be different within the limitations of the lore".
Originally posted by DavisFlight No. I want my choices to actually matter.
Hm. So restriction makes things matter more than permanence? Id rather be able to pick and choose whatever starting rare/class combo I want and then have it permanent. Instead of a restricted set of race/class combos that I can switch around throughout the game.
Originally posted by DavisFlight No. I want my choices to actually matter.
Hm. So restriction makes things matter more than permanence? Id rather be able to pick and choose whatever starting rare/class combo I want and then have it permanent. Instead of a restricted set of race/class combos that I can switch around throughout the game.
Originally posted by jdlamson75 Originally posted by someforumguyI voted yes, because I can't vote for 'I don't want classes'. I know a lot of eq vets want holy trinity classes. That would just turn EQNext into another tank/spank themepark, so no thanks.
Right there with you. No classes. Skills with a cap, please.
Originally posted by DavisFlight No. I want my choices to actually matter.
Hm. So restriction makes things matter more than permanence? Id rather be able to pick and choose whatever starting rare/class combo I want and then have it permanent. Instead of a restricted set of race/class combos that I can switch around throughout the game.
Originally posted by DavisFlight I want my choices to actually matter.
I guess the flipside to that is: I want my choices in the game to actually matter, not just one choice I made before starting.
It's a matter of taste I guess, like that poll a few days ago about whether you want to play a hero or a regular person. Some people prefer a clearly defined role: "I am the chosen one, a righteous paladin that will save the world. That is who I am, that is the only thing I can do." Other people prefer to define their character by their actions: "I am new to the world. I have a history of doing good (or evil) But whether i'm a hero or a villain, loved or hated, respected or feared - this will depend on what i do."
Don't think one is wrong over the other, guess it just depends on whether you prefer a more pre-written path or a more sandbox-type experience where you can take your character in different directions.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
It would be interesting if you could change your alignment in the game over time by consistnetly proving that you're different. I would love to get an Iksar to be positively aligned.
Originally posted by Greez It would be interesting if you could change your alignment in the game over time by consistnetly proving that you're different. I would love to get an Iksar to be positively aligned.
You could do that in the other EQs. It was called faction grinding
Originally posted by Greez It would be interesting if you could change your alignment in the game over time by consistnetly proving that you're different. I would love to get an Iksar to be positively aligned.
You can do that in EQ2 via a series of very lenghty and difficult quests, sabotaging your own city and earning faction with your new city. (Well, they were lengthy and difficult initially, for a capped character these days, it's not so bad, though still a pain in the ass.) It was quite awesome back when the game launched to be the only Ratonga in qeynos. People stopped and stared and it made for great random RP.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I voted yes, because I can't vote for 'I don't want classes'. I know a lot of eq vets want holy trinity classes. That would just turn EQNext into another tank/spank themepark, so no thanks.
Originally posted by Draedz I have to vote no because things like Dark elf druids and Wood elf necromancers don't make sense.
But what if a Dark Elf was raised by a bunch of Wood Elves and learned to love nature and all its beauty?
What if a Wood Elf became embittered by the stagnant nature of his people and sought more knowledge,leading him down dark paths of arcane arts and eventually to control of forces from the netherword?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
To answer the OP's question, I think there should be a separate server for roleplayers. Racial restrictions and other purely role-playing rules can be enforced there. Those who don't care about a certain lore as much can play on regular servers.
Why a separate server for role-players? I'm pretty sure hardcore role-players are very few in number. Most people probably don't care for the RP rulesets.
A better poll would have been to ask how extreme people want their role-playing in EQ Next
You may be right. I have no idea what the lore for EQN will be. If it's like EQ2 where no one really worships any diety and perhaps some races were not created by certain gods at all, then any race/class will work.
I went with no, but if it's decided that halfling warriors are acceptable, they should be appropriately handicapped either in terms of weapons they can use or reduced stats. Just ruins the immersion to think they can really hold their own against a competent half orc.
DAOC handled this pretty well where each "race" had different variations in their stats that made them better with weapons of a particular type, and... some races just could not be certain classes for a variety of lore, alignment or stat reasons.
I think the EQ franchise has more or less been like this as well and I hope they maintain it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I do have a feeling we could have a lively and agreeable discussion about other forms of life, though
Not for this topic, though.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
just wanted to inform you on a couple of things since i'm guessing you don't play eq2:
EQ2 has good, evil and neutral deities that can only be worshipped by the appropriate good/evil alignments. (there is a trick to continue worshipping same deity after you betray, but it's just that - a trick, not design).
races creation history in EQ2 remains the same as EQ1 afaik. and evil races have to start as evil, in evil-aligned cities. there is just the opportunity to become good if you work at it hard enough.
some new developments have come to light that have - for example - made Ratonga no longer evil, since it was discovered that they were exiled due to a betrayal.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I would agree with this, except for.. magic. My human's raw Strength is like.. 5. My human's strength after i put on my magical equipment and cast my spells is 5000. In a world such as this, does it really matter if you're born with weak arms? (The same is true for dexterity and other racial limitations.).
In a world without magic, i would agree with you though.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Fuck it, just make magic dangerous like it is in Dragon Age and done ! XD (I am joking)
Although I leave it up to the developers to develop their games.
I like having restrictions. The issue is where do you draw the lines. Hence my comment before.
1. There is always going to be the group that cries, "Why cant my orc be a high INT Light Magic caster.". Nothing you can do about it except tell them, "Too bad, so sad, go play something else.". Then duck the flying debris. This falls into the, "No matter what you do, somebody will hate" Category.
2. Where I see issues arising is again, the lines. Elves cant cast necro? Well what about Dark Elves? Why couldn't orcs, which spawn from the earth, (spores most commonly), cast some sort or earth magic? Yes yes, it begins to go around and around. I see one answer being lots of different "types" of classes, or maybe many facets to each class. I see a system like City of Heroes. Which leads us to the problem in that system.
3. The system in City of Heroes lead to having lots of characters, Alts. Many didn't like it then, and found it restricting. Now I think even less like it, myself included.
In closing, this is one of those things that even though I have feelings on one side, I tend to just take what I am given and go with it. Not a mechanic that is game breaking, more a matter of aesthetics.
+1 Bravo
Role-playing is about playing the game in-character. I would very much like an RP ruleset server that is strictly enforced. This has absolutely nothing to do with your character development choices being limited. Your character doesn't need to be defined as 100% evil in order to be able to roleplay. If anything, it would severely hinder your ability to do so.
The more freedom of choice there is for characters, the better the roleplaying environment tends to be. The more restrictions are placed on characters, the more you end up with people spamming emotes all day instead of actually playing their characters.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I know absolutely nothing about the lore of Everquest. So consider that when I answer "Yes". My instinct is to err on the side of "more options and customizations".
But when such questions arise, I also like to err on the side of "stick to the lore" or "create a reason why the lore can be changed". So if the lore would normally prevent races from accessing all classes, then I would change my answer to "no, go find other interesting ways to be different within the limitations of the lore".
They both matter and they should BOTH exist.
i think you both will be disappointed.
I guess the flipside to that is: I want my choices in the game to actually matter, not just one choice I made before starting.
It's a matter of taste I guess, like that poll a few days ago about whether you want to play a hero or a regular person. Some people prefer a clearly defined role: "I am the chosen one, a righteous paladin that will save the world. That is who I am, that is the only thing I can do." Other people prefer to define their character by their actions: "I am new to the world. I have a history of doing good (or evil) But whether i'm a hero or a villain, loved or hated, respected or feared - this will depend on what i do."
Don't think one is wrong over the other, guess it just depends on whether you prefer a more pre-written path or a more sandbox-type experience where you can take your character in different directions.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
You could do that in the other EQs. It was called faction grinding
You can do that in EQ2 via a series of very lenghty and difficult quests, sabotaging your own city and earning faction with your new city. (Well, they were lengthy and difficult initially, for a capped character these days, it's not so bad, though still a pain in the ass.) It was quite awesome back when the game launched to be the only Ratonga in qeynos. People stopped and stared and it made for great random RP.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I honestly dont mind if every race could play every class..
From a roleplaying stand point,which it really comes down to,every "good" race and "evil" race could have bad apples in their midst..
a High Elf could secretly dabble in dark magic ,becoming a necromancer or warlock etc..
I dont have a problem with that.
We know the game has some sort of class system.
But what if a Dark Elf was raised by a bunch of Wood Elves and learned to love nature and all its beauty?
What if a Wood Elf became embittered by the stagnant nature of his people and sought more knowledge,leading him down dark paths of arcane arts and eventually to control of forces from the netherword?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre