I would endorse a p2p server just like I would endorse a p2p rp enforced server as well
Sorry but I've gotten too much of a bad taste in my mouth playing with the freeloaders as well. I will try to avoid b2p and f2p games as much as I am able. I have no problem paying more either.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
The idea with F2P model is that the different types of players will balance things out. Having players more splintered than they will already be thru the rulesets that will exist just won't end well. The amount of players having to be moved back and forth when they start subbing/stop subbing will be nothing but a constant pain.
Ideally, the f2p crowd that doesn't sub will help keep the world populated, busy and generate the demand necessary for a bustling economy. The mmo works like a living organism, and both types of players need to exist to perpetuate the game.
I keep trying to tell you guys, p2p is a thing of the past. A few years from now, everyone will be using f2p model.
As long as the most successful games are P2P then i don't see it, if anything i see the F2P games that are in gradual decline, constantly being replaced by yet more F2P games, that in itself is a clear indication of just how ephemeral they can be. But only time can really answer this particular piece of speculation.
The reason why f2p will win out, is that players are being presented with more and more games that they will be interested in playing. The days where people play only a particular mmo are fading. The games that still do well on a p2p model do well because they can afford to usually due to having something to offer that no one else has.
Take Eve for example. Until another game comes along similar to it, they have no reason to go f2p. The themepark fantasy genre on the other hand has dozens of games coming out every year, many of which are triple A titles. Players complete content and bounce between games, forcing publishers to go f2p and make money on microtransactions to keep a playerbase large enough to keep the game from going under.
As long as the idustry is growing, players will continue to play multiple games, or at least want be able to try new titles. This is presenting a real problem for the p2p model.
I keep trying to tell you guys, p2p is a thing of the past. A few years from now, everyone will be using f2p model.
It is only a consequence of a market full of shallow games and instant gratification. Get max level in 2 weeks, get raid ready in 1 week, see all endgame content in the next week. No wonder retention rate is so terrible.
Some of us used to play games where we had to plan our characters weeks or even months ahead, because the choices were permanent and leveling another character to that level took months or years. That gave meaning to our choices. Also, the fact that you, after a few months of playing, owned that skill or that piece of gear or that title or that level and you were one of the only 20 ppl on the server who did own it gave meaning to your character. I knew the ingame name of most of the important people of my class / role and not only. How many people do you get to know in today's games? None, as everyone is the same. No one stands out. Shallow character development, few choices and even those extremely obvious. Same path for everyone. Pointless, from a RPG perspective.
No, me and many others, we're not paying for a game where, in 3 weeks, everyone can finish their story, can have everything, can achieve everything. So, many people jump games, no retention rate, free to play. It is a consequence, not a "plus", not a "great approach", hopefully not "the future".
After seeing that EQ Next will be f2p it lost my interest. F2P with cash shop is the cancer of MMO's and you can see it how people act in these games aswell.
I keep trying to tell you guys, p2p is a thing of the past. A few years from now, everyone will be using f2p model.
It is only a consequence of a market full of shallow games and instant gratification. Get max level in 2 weeks, get raid ready in 1 week, see all endgame content in the next week. No wonder retention rate is so terrible.
Some of us used to play games where we had to plan our characters weeks or even months ahead, because the choices were permanent and leveling another character to that level took months or years. That gave meaning to our choices. Also, the fact that you, after a few months of playing, owned that skill or that piece of gear or that title or that level and you were one of the only 20 ppl on the server who did own it gave meaning to your character. I knew the ingame name of most of the important people of my class / role and not only. How many people do you get to know in today's games? None, as everyone is the same. No one stands out. Shallow character development, few choices and even those extremely obvious. Same path for everyone. Pointless, from a RPG perspective.
No, me and many others, we're not paying for a game where, in 3 weeks, everyone can finish their story, can have everything, can achieve everything. So, many people jump games, no retention rate, free to play. It is a consequence, not a "plus", not a "great approach", hopefully not "the future".
I agree.
Those are ultimately the only two options.
1) Either make games slower, harder and your progression more meaningful (referred to as niche), or
2) make a game with mass appeal, utilize instant gratification (referred to as WoW-clone) and rely on f2p to keep new players coming to keep the game afloat when your current players complete the available content.
MMOs are becoming more like a movie or tv mini-series. Entertaining, but short lived.
Not a terrible idea, but one that probably wouldn't pan out.
Simply put, who gets the subscription server? The RPers? The non-RPers? The PvPers? Which type of PvP (ffa, level based, faction based)? The non-PvPers? Is it just a normal PvE server?
being subscription based may not be a unifying enough factor.
_____________________________ "Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"
1) Either make games slower, harder and your progression more meaningful, or
2) make a game with mass appeal, utilize instant gratification and rely on f2p to keep new players coming to keep the game afloat when.
MMOs are becoming more like a movie or tv mini-series. Entertaining, but short lived.
Yea, your post created an excellent image in my mind. Very well put. Silly, isn't it? With all those "free" games now: GW2, TSW, TOR, Rift, LoTRO, TERA and many many others, all of them not at all such bad games, and people still have this feeling like they're watching a sitcom episode. By making everything instant, everything lost its meaning. It's funny when friends approach me with "hey, come play *this* with me, in 2 weeks you'll be competitive", like I should see that as a big plus.
Never thought I'll ever post anything like this but lately i find Korean grinders more appealing than the "western" games. At least they offer a distant (even if most of the times not attainable) goal. Truth is, the payment model does not matter that much, We just waste our time speaking about it. If it'll be a good game in the old EQ style, we'll play it, no matter if it's p2p or f2p or mixed / combined / whatever. There are 3 things which i personally thrive for and which today's games are unable to offer me: uniqueness, meaning and permanent choices.
the original Zek servers (before they got merged) were 3 different PVP rules.
Stormhammer
the progression servers!
even a hardcore server for a while, though it was only there for a contest.
it shouldnt be that hard for them to keep one server aside for only subscription players, preferably with the CS turned off (or with only certain items turned on). I bet a lot of people would spit out their 15 a month for the chance to play it old school style, with a more level "playing field".
who else all would play on this server (i would obviously.... pref if it's an rp server)
A subscription-only server makes no sense from SOE's point of view.
If the cash shop model generates more income for SOE, why would they voluntarily give away cash and not try to sell to you? What if the monthly subscription fee wasn't $15 dollars like you assume, but because of all the special considerations (removing the cash shop from the code on this server) the monthly cost was $125 a month? Would you still play then?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
A subscription-only server makes no sense from SOE's point of view.
If the cash shop model generates more income for SOE, why would they voluntarily give away cash and not try to sell to you? What if the monthly subscription fee wasn't $15 dollars like you assume, but because of all the special considerations (removing the cash shop from the code on this server) the monthly cost was $125 a month? Would you still play then?
I agree with the subscription only server making no sense.
But would I pay $125 a month for a good game, one that I really enjoyed?
Yes I would no question at all. Given that I play between six and ten hours a day six days a week it would still be the cheapest form of entertainment. Playing MMOs and/or typing is good for my hands, much better than the exercises the physio gives me to keep my fingers from locking up.
I think they might even do so if there is money to be gained, a sub only server, but... will they allow people on other servers that sub to move to the sub only server, and will they allow people that unsub move back to the normal servers?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Sub-only server = small population (probably smaller than the worse failed OW PVP games) =/= no cash shop. Subbers will get sony cash shop currency as a monthly stipend so why not have a cash shop? Now knowing these two: why would Sony even bother with sub-only servers?
I would play on it mostly for the lack of CS influence as long as the monetization was strictly cosmetic, even more if the cosmetics could be in recipes instead.
There is also the player aspect. Decry "elitist" all you want but there's something to be said about your account meaning something. 90% of people may be just fine but that 10% can be pretty bad. I'm going to assume that EQN will have proximity chat and anyone who has played PS2 knows how it can be used to troll people. Not just the player comments but contantly blasting horrible music over a horrible audio signal.
It's not like subs would stop subsidizing free players, just with less of a headache from those 10%
I wouldn't be so sure on the population aspect. Considering a single server holds 10k at least one server would be full, at least. The popularity of F2P is a bit exaggerated since a lot of fans try each game, pulling from the same pool.
I'd assume at least two or three servers would be full. Look at that 30.00/Month server EQ had and that was years ago.
I wouldn't be so sure on the population aspect. Considering a single server holds 10k at least one server would be full, at least. The popularity of F2P is a bit exaggerated since a lot of fans try each game, pulling from the same pool.
I'd assume at least two or three servers would be full. Look at that 30.00/Month server EQ had and that was years ago.
10k around the clock? that's at least 60.000 people. While the population of EQ may be big I doubt that the amount of people who think they should be treated differently based on consistent (small sum) vs others who may be more burst is likely not gonna be that big. I'd wager to guess the actual number of people who want to play the game in their own little corner with their trolls and griefers (cause lets be honest it ain't gonna get better without F2Pers around) is gonna be lower than a viable server population for a Sandbox game (which sits at the bare minimum of 20k).
Originally posted by Dihoru Sub-only server = small population (probably smaller than the worse failed OW PVP games) =/= no cash shop. Subbers will get sony cash shop currency as a monthly stipend so why not have a cash shop? Now knowing these two: why would Sony even bother with sub-only servers?
It doesn't take much more in cpu and memory resources to run two servers with half the population of one big one. The only thing you're really increasing is the storage. It really only depends on how many people you need on a server. If the game is balanced around the idea of having a few thousand people active on a server, then having a subscription only server with ten thousand people would work just fine.
If EQN had 500k subs, and 30k subs wanted to be on a subscription only server of some sort, then it should be perfectly workable without too much cost. I would be amazed if a cash shop didn't exist for all servers though, regardless of the subscription status of the players.
The last question is a good one though. What's the benefit to SOE? What's the benefit to the overall game? Especially if they're going to have one, huge super server.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Oh yes, back to the OP, I would support such a subscription only server model, might even pay a little extra for it, no real desire to hang with the freeloaders.
It's weird that people wonder why there's no social nature to these games anymore. When the fanbase is split worse than Republicans and Democrats, how could it come as any surprise that there's no real MMO community any longer?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Dihoru Sub-only server = small population (probably smaller than the worse failed OW PVP games) =/= no cash shop. Subbers will get sony cash shop currency as a monthly stipend so why not have a cash shop? Now knowing these two: why would Sony even bother with sub-only servers?
It doesn't take much more in cpu and memory resources to run two servers with half the population of one big one. The only thing you're really increasing is the storage. It really only depends on how many people you need on a server. If the game is balanced around the idea of having a few thousand people active on a server, then having a subscription only server with ten thousand people would work just fine.
If EQN had 500k subs, and 30k subs wanted to be on a subscription only server of some sort, then it should be perfectly workable without too much cost. I would be amazed if a cash shop didn't exist for all servers though, regardless of the subscription status of the players.
The last question is a good one though. What's the benefit to SOE? What's the benefit to the overall game? Especially if they're going to have one, huge super server.
Need I point out that you're only taking into account hardware assets? I'd imagine a sub only server would also demand allot more GM and customer service contact.
SOE would stand only to lose especially by segregating the paying players from the non-paying players in this way because the non-payers have less eye candy in front of them to encourage them to purchase something.
They have had a multi layered payment plan where they have a cash shop and sub they must have some idea of the percentages and whether a server like that is worth it to them. It is up to SOE to see if it is worth in terms of good will and even profit.
Originally posted by cheyane They have had a multi layered payment plan where they have a cash shop and sub they must have some idea of the percentages and whether a server like that is worth it to them. It is up to SOE to see if it is worth in terms of good will and even profit.
Comments
I would endorse a p2p server just like I would endorse a p2p rp enforced server as well
Sorry but I've gotten too much of a bad taste in my mouth playing with the freeloaders as well. I will try to avoid b2p and f2p games as much as I am able. I have no problem paying more either.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
The reason why f2p will win out, is that players are being presented with more and more games that they will be interested in playing. The days where people play only a particular mmo are fading. The games that still do well on a p2p model do well because they can afford to usually due to having something to offer that no one else has.
Take Eve for example. Until another game comes along similar to it, they have no reason to go f2p. The themepark fantasy genre on the other hand has dozens of games coming out every year, many of which are triple A titles. Players complete content and bounce between games, forcing publishers to go f2p and make money on microtransactions to keep a playerbase large enough to keep the game from going under.
As long as the idustry is growing, players will continue to play multiple games, or at least want be able to try new titles. This is presenting a real problem for the p2p model.
It is only a consequence of a market full of shallow games and instant gratification. Get max level in 2 weeks, get raid ready in 1 week, see all endgame content in the next week. No wonder retention rate is so terrible.
Some of us used to play games where we had to plan our characters weeks or even months ahead, because the choices were permanent and leveling another character to that level took months or years. That gave meaning to our choices. Also, the fact that you, after a few months of playing, owned that skill or that piece of gear or that title or that level and you were one of the only 20 ppl on the server who did own it gave meaning to your character. I knew the ingame name of most of the important people of my class / role and not only. How many people do you get to know in today's games? None, as everyone is the same. No one stands out. Shallow character development, few choices and even those extremely obvious. Same path for everyone. Pointless, from a RPG perspective.
No, me and many others, we're not paying for a game where, in 3 weeks, everyone can finish their story, can have everything, can achieve everything. So, many people jump games, no retention rate, free to play. It is a consequence, not a "plus", not a "great approach", hopefully not "the future".
I agree.
Those are ultimately the only two options.
1) Either make games slower, harder and your progression more meaningful (referred to as niche), or
2) make a game with mass appeal, utilize instant gratification (referred to as WoW-clone) and rely on f2p to keep new players coming to keep the game afloat when your current players complete the available content.
MMOs are becoming more like a movie or tv mini-series. Entertaining, but short lived.
Not from the Empire he doesn't, and that is what you should fear.
Not a terrible idea, but one that probably wouldn't pan out.
Simply put, who gets the subscription server? The RPers? The non-RPers? The PvPers? Which type of PvP (ffa, level based, faction based)? The non-PvPers? Is it just a normal PvE server?
being subscription based may not be a unifying enough factor.
_____________________________
"Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"
Yea, your post created an excellent image in my mind. Very well put. Silly, isn't it? With all those "free" games now: GW2, TSW, TOR, Rift, LoTRO, TERA and many many others, all of them not at all such bad games, and people still have this feeling like they're watching a sitcom episode. By making everything instant, everything lost its meaning. It's funny when friends approach me with "hey, come play *this* with me, in 2 weeks you'll be competitive", like I should see that as a big plus.
Never thought I'll ever post anything like this but lately i find Korean grinders more appealing than the "western" games. At least they offer a distant (even if most of the times not attainable) goal. Truth is, the payment model does not matter that much, We just waste our time speaking about it. If it'll be a good game in the old EQ style, we'll play it, no matter if it's p2p or f2p or mixed / combined / whatever. There are 3 things which i personally thrive for and which today's games are unable to offer me: uniqueness, meaning and permanent choices.
A subscription-only server makes no sense from SOE's point of view.
If the cash shop model generates more income for SOE, why would they voluntarily give away cash and not try to sell to you? What if the monthly subscription fee wasn't $15 dollars like you assume, but because of all the special considerations (removing the cash shop from the code on this server) the monthly cost was $125 a month? Would you still play then?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
They do it oh so well though. By the end of it all, you be thinking, "20$ for 4k sony points is a reallly good deal!"
I agree with the subscription only server making no sense.
But would I pay $125 a month for a good game, one that I really enjoyed?
Yes I would no question at all. Given that I play between six and ten hours a day six days a week it would still be the cheapest form of entertainment. Playing MMOs and/or typing is good for my hands, much better than the exercises the physio gives me to keep my fingers from locking up.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
Whats wrong with roleplayers?
I think they might even do so if there is money to be gained, a sub only server, but... will they allow people on other servers that sub to move to the sub only server, and will they allow people that unsub move back to the normal servers?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
There is also the player aspect. Decry "elitist" all you want but there's something to be said about your account meaning something. 90% of people may be just fine but that 10% can be pretty bad. I'm going to assume that EQN will have proximity chat and anyone who has played PS2 knows how it can be used to troll people. Not just the player comments but contantly blasting horrible music over a horrible audio signal.
It's not like subs would stop subsidizing free players, just with less of a headache from those 10%
I wouldn't be so sure on the population aspect. Considering a single server holds 10k at least one server would be full, at least. The popularity of F2P is a bit exaggerated since a lot of fans try each game, pulling from the same pool.
I'd assume at least two or three servers would be full. Look at that 30.00/Month server EQ had and that was years ago.
10k around the clock? that's at least 60.000 people. While the population of EQ may be big I doubt that the amount of people who think they should be treated differently based on consistent (small sum) vs others who may be more burst is likely not gonna be that big. I'd wager to guess the actual number of people who want to play the game in their own little corner with their trolls and griefers (cause lets be honest it ain't gonna get better without F2Pers around) is gonna be lower than a viable server population for a Sandbox game (which sits at the bare minimum of 20k).
It doesn't take much more in cpu and memory resources to run two servers with half the population of one big one. The only thing you're really increasing is the storage. It really only depends on how many people you need on a server. If the game is balanced around the idea of having a few thousand people active on a server, then having a subscription only server with ten thousand people would work just fine.
If EQN had 500k subs, and 30k subs wanted to be on a subscription only server of some sort, then it should be perfectly workable without too much cost. I would be amazed if a cash shop didn't exist for all servers though, regardless of the subscription status of the players.
The last question is a good one though. What's the benefit to SOE? What's the benefit to the overall game? Especially if they're going to have one, huge super server.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It's weird that people wonder why there's no social nature to these games anymore. When the fanbase is split worse than Republicans and Democrats, how could it come as any surprise that there's no real MMO community any longer?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Need I point out that you're only taking into account hardware assets? I'd imagine a sub only server would also demand allot more GM and customer service contact.
SOE would stand only to lose especially by segregating the paying players from the non-paying players in this way because the non-payers have less eye candy in front of them to encourage them to purchase something.
Knowledge is power young one.