Why are you being disrespectful, they are correct. Only SoE knows what sells, what doesn't and how many are subbed. I'm not sure what the point of your response was.
Originally posted by cheyane I would be there from day 1 .Me likey this idea. Need a thumbs up emote or there it is.
thx i appreciate it from a poster like you :]
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
They should have a server filled with these sorts of people...and monetize the shit out of them (to the point of resurrections being 1 free per day with demon souls type enemies ), that way the sane and rational people can be kept safe on the free servers from the troll, the manchild and the entitled.
The Emperor Protects.
i think it's great that you are foisting the "sense of entitlement" tag on those of us who actually want to pay for our game. in the real world, those who want to play a triple-a game for free are the ones with the sense of entitlement.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
We don't even know that there will be shards yet, it could be One server design.
SoE has been moving away from server specific rulesets, heck most of the industry has been moving away from it due to overhead in supporting it.
Funny thing about that. In the early days of MMORPG's, when the subscription base and revenues from these games was much smaller than today, companies were somehow almost always able to offer multiple rule set servers.
But now in this era of mega million MMO's, there doesn't seem to be any money available to provide them, or proper moderation/customer support, special moderator led events etc?
With all of the revenue being generated now, I would have expected more options not less, did economies of scale work in reverse somehow?
Or did the desire to maximize profit overtake the willingness to provide better service?
My guess is the latter.
Oh yes, back to the OP, I would support such a subscription only server model, might even pay a little extra for it, no real desire to hang with the freeloaders.
sry for multiposting like a fiend. i just got home from work and i'm catching up
thanks kyle i feel the same way. I remember when EQ1 introduced FV, they were the most popular mmo but they didnt even have 20% of what a diminishing wow now has. and they were still getting 12.95 a month from us, not the current non-ff standard 15.
I hope someone from SoE notices all the "i woulds" in the thread and steps up to the plate.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
We don't even know that there will be shards yet, it could be One server design.
SoE has been moving away from server specific rulesets, heck most of the industry has been moving away from it due to overhead in supporting it.
Funny thing about that. In the early days of MMORPG's, when the subscription base and revenues from these games was much smaller than today, companies were somehow almost always able to offer multiple rule set servers.
But now in this era of mega million MMO's, there doesn't seem to be any money available to provide them, or proper moderation/customer support, special moderator led events etc?
With all of the revenue being generated now, I would have expected more options not less, did economies of scale work in reverse somehow?
Or did the desire to maximize profit overtake the willingness to provide better service?
My guess is the latter.
Oh yes, back to the OP, I would support such a subscription only server model, might even pay a little extra for it, no real desire to hang with the freeloaders.
sry for multiposting like a fiend. i just got home from work and i'm catching up
thanks kyle i feel the same way. I remember when EQ1 introduced FV, they were the most popular mmo but they didnt even have 20% of what a diminishing wow now has. and they were still getting 12.95 a month from us, not the current non-ff standard 15.
I hope someone from SoE notices all the "i woulds" in the thread and steps up to the plate.
SOE's F2P model is superior to P2P because it covers all the "i woulds" with the subscription option, and then fills the world with additional players who can't/won't pay for those paying customers to interact with. Players = content in online games. No one wants to play a game that's low or semi low population. The more the better.
It also creates a much, much lower barrier to entry. More people are willing to give the game a try because it's F2P, and in turn it acts like advertising on crack.
People can stop paying and not have to worry about being locked out of the game. Which creates a much steadier user base.
F2P model doesn't work if you split up the paying customers from the non-paying ones.
Sorry, but your idea sounds good on the surface, but to anyone in the know, and understands how the F2P model works, it's just not viable. Sorry.
while a sub only server separated from the rest sound sort of ok, it still doesnt make much sense. The point is not organizing different models through different servers. The point is to not chop the playerbase in half. Its an mmorpg, people should be all in the same servers.
Clearly there is a strong divide in the player base. Which is normal as the genre evolves and changes. The gap between hardcore vs. casual will only deepen.
I think this idea is genius. I would play on that server in a heartbeat.
Something tells me that F2P advocates would not like any company to do something like this. It might point out just how much more money the company would make off of the subscription server versus that of the F2P server, especially since most if not all of the big spenders would likely opt for the subscription server.
I wouldn't hesitate to play on a subscription only server.
Originally posted by rojo6934 while a sub only server separated from the rest sound sort of ok, it still doesnt make much sense. The point is not organizing different models through different servers. The point is to not chop the playerbase in half. Its an mmorpg, people should be all in the same servers.
I think that people must be free to play as they want and with other people that have a similar vision of the game...so why i have to play with players that want, for example, a simple and casual game with a cash shop to help if i prefer an hardcore ruleset that can be implement in a subsciber only server?
For hardcore ruleset i intend a server with:
slower leveling (like EQ1)
classes restrictions for some races (like EQ1)
weapon and armor restrictions for classes (like EQ1)
no cash shop (i dont want exp buffs or things that aid me)
no fast travels (like EQ1)
exp loss for death and corpse run (like EQ1)
need to eat and drink to survive (like EQ1)
no GPS maps
play with people that like those things
I dont think that are very difficult things to implement, and if you dont like, no one will force you to join this server, you can play in a normal one.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it" -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
Originally posted by Bad.dog Originally posted by JedidiahTheadoreI would be willing to pay as much as 25 - 30 dollars a month for a sub server without a cash shop.
A fool and their money soon parts ....if you are willing to give away 30 dollars a month for nothing ,go to it
so you have never gone out for a night on the town and spent $30? its called entertainment and that's actually quite cheap if you are having fun as opposed to having fun spending a lot more cash than that.
heck, i gave my friend more than that to eat a giant live cockroach when we were drunk, it was money well spent! good times indeed!
Originally posted by rojo6934 while a sub only server separated from the rest sound sort of ok, it still doesnt make much sense. The point is not organizing different models through different servers. The point is to not chop the playerbase in half. Its an mmorpg, people should be all in the same servers.
very true, but they could still offer one server like that and have multiple other servers for everyone else to play together.
that said, if this truly is the largest sandbox style mmo ever created, how many servers can there be? i would say 2 or 3 max depending on how successful it is i guess.
otherwise the world will feel too empty and the community will suffer. i wouldn't be shocked at all if there is just one server.
They should have a server filled with these sorts of people...and monetize the shit out of them (to the point of resurrections being 1 free per day with demon souls type enemies ), that way the sane and rational people can be kept safe on the free servers from the troll, the manchild and the entitled.
The Emperor Protects.
i think it's great that you are foisting the "sense of entitlement" tag on those of us who actually want to pay for our game. in the real world, those who want to play a triple-a game for free are the ones with the sense of entitlement.
The freeloaders depend on us payers to subsidize their hobby. It doesn't matter to me whether it's due to their being cheap or real financial issues. As a paying customer, I'm no more happy subsidizing F2P gamers as I am subsidizing content I have absolutely no interest in, such as raiding. Perhaps this is why I no longer play games that foist either on me. I can barely tolerate converted F2P games such as SWTOR that still offer a subscription and I haven't found a single made to be F2P game that I have ever liked aside from Wizard 101 and that was short lived at best. The design and content philosophy that goes with it is obnoxious to me as are the majority of the freeloaders that infest them.
Originally posted by JedidiahTheadore I would be willing to pay as much as 25 - 30 dollars a month for a sub server without a cash shop.
just make sure you are the only one being charged that. If there is a sub, make sure everyone else pays 15. We dont need higher price point, we need higher quality that fits what we currently pay. But you, sir, can pay all you want.... alone.
Originally posted by JedidiahTheadoreI would be willing to pay as much as 25 - 30 dollars a month for a sub server without a cash shop.
A fool and their money soon parts ....if you are willing to give away 30 dollars a month for nothing ,go to it
so you have never gone out for a night on the town and spent $30? its called entertainment and that's actually quite cheap if you are having fun as opposed to having fun spending a lot more cash than that.
heck, i gave my friend more than that to eat a giant live cockroach when we were drunk, it was money well spent! good times indeed!
Meanwhile hes going to play on the f2p server and there will be ppl spending hundreds and in some cases even thousands a month getting massive advantages.
But hey hes fine with that cause he cant afford a monthly sub lol.
Monthly sub is by far the cheapest. Unless you like being inferior. Alot of people seem to enjoy it.
I would love a server with no cash shop in it:) And if the game turns out to be all that, then I would be willing to pay a little over fifteen a month no problem.
Originally posted by JedidiahTheadore I would be willing to pay as much as 25 - 30 dollars a month for a sub server without a cash shop.
just make sure you are the only one being charged that. If there is a sub, make sure everyone else pays 15. We dont need higher price point, we need higher quality that fits what we currently pay. But you, sir, can pay all you want.... alone.
You seem to be under the delusional impression that I or anyone else can determine what we would be charged for a sub server with no cash shop.
30 dollars is the price I would be willing to pay a month for a sub server without a cash shop. There is no benefit to SOE to offer such a server at 15 dollars a month, not when they can include the cash shop and make even more money + your $15. So given the choice between 15 a month + cash shop or 30 a month without, I would opt for the latter.
But you can always play on the free servers. That's what they are there for, the people to cheap to pay for their entertainment.
Something tells me that F2P advocates would not like any company to do something like this. It might point out just how much more money the company would make off of the subscription server versus that of the F2P server, especially since most if not all of the big spenders would likely opt for the subscription server.
I wouldn't hesitate to play on a subscription only server.
thanks to all the folks in the thread who voiced their support!!
I'll play the game no matter what but (obv obv obv) its my preference to play in a server of paying subscribers. i already mentioned that SOE has done the special server thing in the past.... it bears mentioning that Fippy/Vulak probably pulled Eq1 from the brink pretty recently... but i didnt mention a few of my reasons.... of course most of these have been mentioned but hey.
1) If people have a financial tie to a game they might stick around longer ---> fosters community. (EX: 2 people are sorta bored waiting for a patch which is due out in 7 days. one is f2p and the other has a 6 month sub and is in the 3rd month. which one of these folks is likely to go play another game and which is more likely to wait for that patch- and probably still logon to talk to friends in the meantime)
2) People who want to support the game per month might be more likely to constructively criticize in (for example) worldchat as opposed to trolling or complaining without a real direction. this is a corollary to the notion that "dyed in the wools EQ fans" would be more likely to pay that fee.
3) paying 15 a month (or less for a multimonth, or whatever) might keep the plat sellers off. to be honest this is a huge'un for me... (weep L2)
4) this is the one i dont WANT to admit to, but i will in the interest of fairness. i think it will skew the average age of the server up a few years. now i know that age =/= maturity and god knows the best friend i EVER made in an MMO was a 16 year old kid (i was 26 at the time) and he and i still keep in touch... but he's not the average younger mmo player, sadly. so there i said it. :P
my next question is, out of you other folks who want the server, maybe we could get one of those petition things online and start getting E-Signatures? Anyone who has started one before and knows how to do it maybe we could work out the charter or the wording on the sig together or here in the forums.
thanks for reading!! and keep the thread alive...
Itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
The idea with F2P model is that the different types of players will balance things out. Having players more splintered than they will already be thru the rulesets that will exist just won't end well. The amount of players having to be moved back and forth when they start subbing/stop subbing will be nothing but a constant pain.
Ideally, the f2p crowd that doesn't sub will help keep the world populated, busy and generate the demand necessary for a bustling economy. The mmo works like a living organism, and both types of players need to exist to perpetuate the game.
I keep trying to tell you guys, p2p is a thing of the past. A few years from now, everyone will be using f2p model.
As long as the most successful games are P2P then i don't see it, if anything i see the F2P games that are in gradual decline, constantly being replaced by yet more F2P games, that in itself is a clear indication of just how ephemeral they can be. But only time can really answer this particular piece of speculation.
There are two games that can be considered successful are P2P, WoW and EvE.
If you can come up with more than 2 games that are extremely successful in making money I would love to see you try.
FF11, DaoC, EQ, AO all make meager profits, some being on life support with no new content.
You also can't deny the fact that a majority of games are now F2P, if F2P was not profitable why would a majority of companies start their games at F2P or turn them F2P if it didn't make them more money?
The idea with F2P model is that the different types of players will balance things out. Having players more splintered than they will already be thru the rulesets that will exist just won't end well. The amount of players having to be moved back and forth when they start subbing/stop subbing will be nothing but a constant pain.
Ideally, the f2p crowd that doesn't sub will help keep the world populated, busy and generate the demand necessary for a bustling economy. The mmo works like a living organism, and both types of players need to exist to perpetuate the game.
I keep trying to tell you guys, p2p is a thing of the past. A few years from now, everyone will be using f2p model.
As long as the most successful games are P2P then i don't see it, if anything i see the F2P games that are in gradual decline, constantly being replaced by yet more F2P games, that in itself is a clear indication of just how ephemeral they can be. But only time can really answer this particular piece of speculation.
There are two games that can be considered successful are P2P, WoW and EvE.
If you can come up with more than 2 games that are extremely successful in making money I would love to see you try.
FF11, DaoC, EQ, AO all make meager profits, some being on life support with no new content.
You also can't deny the fact that a majority of games are now F2P, if F2P was not profitable why would a majority of companies start their games at F2P or turn them F2P if it didn't make them more money?
All of those games you listed made very, very good profits for a very long time before they switched to F2P in a bid to infuse new life into them. Only SWTOR switched to F2P before they needed to, every other convert was already suffering very small player bases. We've yet to get any data proving that F2P makes the industry more money in the long run versus the short term benefits.
As far as I'm concerned, F2P is a last ditch effort to save a failing game or it's the model to assume when you know you don't have a killer game.
As far as I'm concerned, F2P is a last ditch effort to save a failing game or it's the model to assume when you know you don't have a killer game.
I am not sure about this... I'd like to see some hard revenue numbers from games like mabinogi, etc that have been f2p all their lives. i have a feeling they are pretty darn profitable, even though i am not personally a fan of the f2p system. maybe sheer numbers paying just a few bux here and there, combined with the powergamers who really throw down money with abandon, make up for the lack of a steady stream of tens and fives?
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Comments
Why are you being disrespectful, they are correct. Only SoE knows what sells, what doesn't and how many are subbed. I'm not sure what the point of your response was.
thx i appreciate it from a poster like you :]
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
i think it's great that you are foisting the "sense of entitlement" tag on those of us who actually want to pay for our game. in the real world, those who want to play a triple-a game for free are the ones with the sense of entitlement.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
sry for multiposting like a fiend. i just got home from work and i'm catching up
thanks kyle i feel the same way. I remember when EQ1 introduced FV, they were the most popular mmo but they didnt even have 20% of what a diminishing wow now has. and they were still getting 12.95 a month from us, not the current non-ff standard 15.
I hope someone from SoE notices all the "i woulds" in the thread and steps up to the plate.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
SOE's F2P model is superior to P2P because it covers all the "i woulds" with the subscription option, and then fills the world with additional players who can't/won't pay for those paying customers to interact with. Players = content in online games. No one wants to play a game that's low or semi low population. The more the better.
It also creates a much, much lower barrier to entry. More people are willing to give the game a try because it's F2P, and in turn it acts like advertising on crack.
People can stop paying and not have to worry about being locked out of the game. Which creates a much steadier user base.
F2P model doesn't work if you split up the paying customers from the non-paying ones.
Sorry, but your idea sounds good on the surface, but to anyone in the know, and understands how the F2P model works, it's just not viable. Sorry.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
A fool and their money soon parts ....if you are willing to give away 30 dollars a month for nothing ,go to it
Clearly there is a strong divide in the player base. Which is normal as the genre evolves and changes. The gap between hardcore vs. casual will only deepen.
I think this idea is genius. I would play on that server in a heartbeat.
Something tells me that F2P advocates would not like any company to do something like this. It might point out just how much more money the company would make off of the subscription server versus that of the F2P server, especially since most if not all of the big spenders would likely opt for the subscription server.
I wouldn't hesitate to play on a subscription only server.
I think that people must be free to play as they want and with other people that have a similar vision of the game...so why i have to play with players that want, for example, a simple and casual game with a cash shop to help if i prefer an hardcore ruleset that can be implement in a subsciber only server?
For hardcore ruleset i intend a server with:
slower leveling (like EQ1)
classes restrictions for some races (like EQ1)
weapon and armor restrictions for classes (like EQ1)
no cash shop (i dont want exp buffs or things that aid me)
no fast travels (like EQ1)
exp loss for death and corpse run (like EQ1)
need to eat and drink to survive (like EQ1)
no GPS maps
play with people that like those things
I dont think that are very difficult things to implement, and if you dont like, no one will force you to join this server, you can play in a normal one.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
I think it is more foolish to criticize how players spend their money. It can cost more than that to go out to dinner or a bar with friends.
A lot of people make that within an hour or two of work. But if you don't the F2P servers are still there. It's win/win.
so you have never gone out for a night on the town and spent $30? its called entertainment and that's actually quite cheap if you are having fun as opposed to having fun spending a lot more cash than that.
heck, i gave my friend more than that to eat a giant live cockroach when we were drunk, it was money well spent! good times indeed!
very true, but they could still offer one server like that and have multiple other servers for everyone else to play together.
that said, if this truly is the largest sandbox style mmo ever created, how many servers can there be? i would say 2 or 3 max depending on how successful it is i guess.
otherwise the world will feel too empty and the community will suffer. i wouldn't be shocked at all if there is just one server.
The freeloaders depend on us payers to subsidize their hobby. It doesn't matter to me whether it's due to their being cheap or real financial issues. As a paying customer, I'm no more happy subsidizing F2P gamers as I am subsidizing content I have absolutely no interest in, such as raiding. Perhaps this is why I no longer play games that foist either on me. I can barely tolerate converted F2P games such as SWTOR that still offer a subscription and I haven't found a single made to be F2P game that I have ever liked aside from Wizard 101 and that was short lived at best. The design and content philosophy that goes with it is obnoxious to me as are the majority of the freeloaders that infest them.
just make sure you are the only one being charged that. If there is a sub, make sure everyone else pays 15. We dont need higher price point, we need higher quality that fits what we currently pay. But you, sir, can pay all you want.... alone.
Meanwhile hes going to play on the f2p server and there will be ppl spending hundreds and in some cases even thousands a month getting massive advantages.
But hey hes fine with that cause he cant afford a monthly sub lol.
Monthly sub is by far the cheapest. Unless you like being inferior. Alot of people seem to enjoy it.
You seem to be under the delusional impression that I or anyone else can determine what we would be charged for a sub server with no cash shop.
30 dollars is the price I would be willing to pay a month for a sub server without a cash shop. There is no benefit to SOE to offer such a server at 15 dollars a month, not when they can include the cash shop and make even more money + your $15. So given the choice between 15 a month + cash shop or 30 a month without, I would opt for the latter.
But you can always play on the free servers. That's what they are there for, the people to cheap to pay for their entertainment.
thanks to all the folks in the thread who voiced their support!!
I'll play the game no matter what but (obv obv obv) its my preference to play in a server of paying subscribers. i already mentioned that SOE has done the special server thing in the past.... it bears mentioning that Fippy/Vulak probably pulled Eq1 from the brink pretty recently... but i didnt mention a few of my reasons.... of course most of these have been mentioned but hey.
1) If people have a financial tie to a game they might stick around longer ---> fosters community. (EX: 2 people are sorta bored waiting for a patch which is due out in 7 days. one is f2p and the other has a 6 month sub and is in the 3rd month. which one of these folks is likely to go play another game and which is more likely to wait for that patch- and probably still logon to talk to friends in the meantime)
2) People who want to support the game per month might be more likely to constructively criticize in (for example) worldchat as opposed to trolling or complaining without a real direction. this is a corollary to the notion that "dyed in the wools EQ fans" would be more likely to pay that fee.
3) paying 15 a month (or less for a multimonth, or whatever) might keep the plat sellers off. to be honest this is a huge'un for me... (weep L2)
4) this is the one i dont WANT to admit to, but i will in the interest of fairness. i think it will skew the average age of the server up a few years. now i know that age =/= maturity and god knows the best friend i EVER made in an MMO was a 16 year old kid (i was 26 at the time) and he and i still keep in touch... but he's not the average younger mmo player, sadly. so there i said it. :P
my next question is, out of you other folks who want the server, maybe we could get one of those petition things online and start getting E-Signatures? Anyone who has started one before and knows how to do it maybe we could work out the charter or the wording on the sig together or here in the forums.
thanks for reading!! and keep the thread alive...
Itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
There are two games that can be considered successful are P2P, WoW and EvE.
If you can come up with more than 2 games that are extremely successful in making money I would love to see you try.
FF11, DaoC, EQ, AO all make meager profits, some being on life support with no new content.
You also can't deny the fact that a majority of games are now F2P, if F2P was not profitable why would a majority of companies start their games at F2P or turn them F2P if it didn't make them more money?
All of those games you listed made very, very good profits for a very long time before they switched to F2P in a bid to infuse new life into them. Only SWTOR switched to F2P before they needed to, every other convert was already suffering very small player bases. We've yet to get any data proving that F2P makes the industry more money in the long run versus the short term benefits.
As far as I'm concerned, F2P is a last ditch effort to save a failing game or it's the model to assume when you know you don't have a killer game.
I am not sure about this... I'd like to see some hard revenue numbers from games like mabinogi, etc that have been f2p all their lives. i have a feeling they are pretty darn profitable, even though i am not personally a fan of the f2p system. maybe sheer numbers paying just a few bux here and there, combined with the powergamers who really throw down money with abandon, make up for the lack of a steady stream of tens and fives?
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.