I need to jump in here to discuss the difference between 'hard' and 'tedious' because so many of you, including the author of the article, still confuse the two.
So do you, as well.
There is a reason that games evolved from EQ 1 to include quest markers, and it wasn't about ease versus difficulty, it was to remove unnecessarily and unfun, tedious gameplay.
There's really nothing tedious about directionless quests, that makes no sense at all. It's more about world sense/immersion. If someone asks you to find someone, they are not going to tell you where exactly they are, that makes no sense. If someone tells you to kill gazelles, you're expected to know the terrain enough to know where they are. It had nothing to do with tedium, and everything with encouraging exploration and paying attention to the world. I personally find quests a lot more fun when I have to spend some time to figure out what I have to do or where or how. Otherwise, I don't really see the point of quests, I can grind mobs on my own if I want to...
If you want everything spelled out for you that's your choice, but you have it available to you and asking devs to add to your exploits is silly. You already are looking for the easy way out and you found it, nobody should help you with that.
I'm not disputing that having to figure out where to go can't be engaging, it can be. I'm simply stating the facts that the vast majority of people are not going to spend the time to do it. They are going to jump onto the internet, find exactly where to go, and go there, simple as that.
The developers realized that and so they added in quest marking because they knew most people weren't going to spend the time to figure it out on their own anyway. I would submit to you, that YOU can easily disable this feature in most games if you wish and therefore YOU can have all the fun in the world figuring out where to go on your own. I may not want that and so I can leave the quest marker enabled and get on with it, or pick and choose when I use it and when I don't.
The reality is if the feature is in the game you're going to use it to!
So, you're calling on the devs then, to spend time coding an extra feature, just so you can not have to look something up? I'd much rather have them spend time developing new content. Personally, I'd much rather read a quest that says, "Look past the manmouth mountains to find the widget" and have to figure out where the manmouth mountains were, or ask someone in game to show me, than to look it up, or instantly have an 'x' show up on my map, so I blindly follow to the marker, ignoring the rest of the world till I get there. Having these features in the game promotes lazy players, and if players aren't going to explore what the devs create, what motivation is there for the devs to create interesting features?
By your same logic, they ought to just tell people where the quests are, and have them teleported right there. I mean if the devs know you're not going to explore, and just go straight to the spot, why bother creating anything in between?
If you make exploration rewarding, people will explore. If you make it worthwhile for someone to find the mountains, or a better route through the mountains, they'll do it. If you put in items, quests, and interesting features, people will wander about and find them. If you get people to wander about and find interesting things, the devs will create more interesting things. Players will adapt to finding quest locations if you make finding the quest locations interesting. "It's good to have an end to journey to, but it's the journey that matters; in the end." ~ Ernest Hemingway. If the game makes the journey worth it, players will take it.
What this really means is that 'some' people will go exploring but the vast majority will either A) just google the location and go there by whatever route has already been mapped out as the fastest, or in the abscense of having any tools to find the locations, just quit the game.
Don't shoot the messenger for speaking the truth. What you would be left with is the very small hardcore and dedicated crowd. That may not be a bad thing to you, but to a company trying to make as much money as possible, the word 'small' is not what they want to hear in terms of players.
I happen to really like quest finder tools and quest hubs. I don't think they make a game less "hard" just faster to get done when my time is short. Think about this. Take a game like FFXI. It's a pretty unforgiving game and it's quests take some research to figure out how to do. I personally always just used a guide or online guides to get them done. Imagine if they had just put quest tracking in the game and showed folk where the quests are yet didn't change the actual quest itself or it's objective. Guess what? Still hard as hell to accomplish. Which means, these extra tools DON"T make the game EASIER. Really wish you "challenge" nuts would stop speaking for "most gamers" when it's not a universal desire.
Just had to pipe up on your number "5. Make it Hard again." The rest are ok I guess.
the thing is, if you want a game that has quest hubs, quest trackers, group finders there are 5 or 6 very good games for you. WoW, rift, EQ2, aion, LOTRO all come to mind. whereas those of us who want a "harder" game or at any rate a less "handholding" game we only have 2 right now, Eve and Darkfall... and darkfall is still on the cusp of paid beta status (mortal is firmly pre-production to me so i didnt count it)
That's why so many of us in that camp wish for each new game that comes out to follow the harder formula.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
*nod* Good points. Exactly what I want from MMORPG. They cheapen experience so much it becomes boring. And when it is difficult it is tedious, not challenging.
Originally posted by " Personally, I'd much rather read a quest that says, "Look past the manmouth mountains to find the widget" and have to figure out where the manmouth mountains were, or ask someone in game to show me, than to look it up, or instantly have an 'x' show up on my map, so I blindly follow to the marker, ignoring the rest of the world till I get there. Having these features in the game promotes lazy players, and if players aren't going to explore what the devs create, what motivation is there for the devs to create interesting features?
shathira "By your same logic, they ought to just tell people where the quests are, and have them teleported right there. I mean if the devs know you're not going to explore, and just go straight to the spot, why bother creating anything in between?
If you make exploration rewarding, people will explore. If you make it worthwhile for someone to find the mountains, or a better route through the mountains, they'll do it. If you put in items, quests, and interesting features, people will wander about and find them. If you get people to wander about and find interesting things, the devs will create more interesting things. Players will adapt to finding quest locations if you make finding the quest locations interesting. "It's good to have an end to journey to, but it's the journey that matters; in the end." ~ Ernest Hemingway. If the game makes the journey worth it, players will take it."
Originally posted by Grimlock426
Originally posted by NagelRitter
Originally posted by Grimlock426
I need to jump in here to discuss the difference between 'hard' and 'tedious' because so many of you, including the author of the article, still confuse the two.
So do you, as well.
There is a reason that games evolved from EQ 1 to include quest markers, and it wasn't about ease versus difficulty, it was to remove unnecessarily and unfun, tedious gameplay.
There's really nothing tedious about directionless quests, that makes no sense at all. It's more about world sense/immersion. If someone asks you to find someone, they are not going to tell you where exactly they are, that makes no sense. If someone tells you to kill gazelles, you're expected to know the terrain enough to know where they are. It had nothing to do with tedium, and everything with encouraging exploration and paying attention to the world. I personally find quests a lot more fun when I have to spend some time to figure out what I have to do or where or how. Otherwise, I don't really see the point of quests, I can grind mobs on my own if I want to...
If you want everything spelled out for you that's your choice, but you have it available to you and asking devs to add to your exploits is silly. You already are looking for the easy way out and you found it, nobody should help you with that.
I'm not disputing that having to figure out where to go can't be engaging, it can be. I'm simply stating the facts that the vast majority of people are not going to spend the time to do it. They are going to jump onto the internet, find exactly where to go, and go there, simple as that.
The developers realized that and so they added in quest marking because they knew most people weren't going to spend the time to figure it out on their own anyway. I would submit to you, that YOU can easily disable this feature in most games if you wish and therefore YOU can have all the fun in the world figuring out where to go on your own. I may not want that and so I can leave the quest marker enabled and get on with it, or pick and choose when I use it and when I don't.
The reality is if the feature is in the game you're going to use it to!
So, you're calling on the devs then, to spend time coding an extra feature, just so you can not have to look something up? I'd much rather have them spend time developing new content. Personally, I'd much rather read a quest that says, "Look past the manmouth mountains to find the widget" and have to figure out where the manmouth mountains were, or ask someone in game to show me, than to look it up, or instantly have an 'x' show up on my map, so I blindly follow to the marker, ignoring the rest of the world till I get there. Having these features in the game promotes lazy players, and if players aren't going to explore what the devs create, what motivation is there for the devs to create interesting features?
By your same logic, they ought to just tell people where the quests are, and have them teleported right there. I mean if the devs know you're not going to explore, and just go straight to the spot, why bother creating anything in between?
If you make exploration rewarding, people will explore. If you make it worthwhile for someone to find the mountains, or a better route through the mountains, they'll do it. If you put in items, quests, and interesting features, people will wander about and find them. If you get people to wander about and find interesting things, the devs will create more interesting things. Players will adapt to finding quest locations if you make finding the quest locations interesting. "It's good to have an end to journey to, but it's the journey that matters; in the end." ~ Ernest Hemingway. If the game makes the journey worth it, players will take it.
I like your ideas shathira!
Maybe with the Storybricks , the developers can bring in new dynamic quests. Overheard conversations hinting at someplace?
Why is everyone getting their hopes up over this title? I had a love/hate relationship with EQ1, which I played for 4 years or so, 2 of them very very hardcore. EQ1 was fun. EQ1 was tedious and boring. EQ1 had the thrill of the rare drop. EQ1 had the soul crushing boredom of farming rare spawns hoping for the rare drop from the rare spawn... EQ1 had SO MANY broken quests that you had to use 3rd party guides just to see if you were spinning your wheels or not.
But none of that matters.
It's being designed for the PS4.
That makes all this wishing for this and that moot. It's being designed for console gamers. Just keep that fact firmly in view, and you can move on from worrying about what EQN is or isn't.
We don't know that for sure.
Isn't TESO also going cross-platform? They are making separate servers for the PS4 players, so (to quote you) its a moot point.
Worrying about speculative maybe's is draining. We'll find out in a week what's going on.
TESO also lost my interest with the consoles being supported. Basically, if you have to make it work on a controller, it isn't "complex" enough to satisfy my MMORPG type needs. Sports games on consoles? Just fine. RPG's? Not so much.
While the PC version and PS4 version of EQN won't necessarily reside on the same servers/worlds, the design of the game has to go to the "lowest common denominator" which would be the console. They aren't going to develop game systems just for the PC version.
I hear your concern, and it was certainly one I was quite vocal about 2 years ago on the EQ2 and EQ2Wire discussions. Thing is, we just don't know at this point. If it is being made for the PS4 and the PC version is simplified to match it..definitely a pass for me. We just have to wait and see how it turns out.
EQ1 with latest graphics and camera angles + character models like in Rift + crafting from Vanguard + enormous world like in Vanguard + multple action bars like in EQ2 + death like in EQ1 with the old style corpse drag and XP loss + difficulty of questing requiring research like in old days of EQ1.
Just a random observation, but what a lot of people want sounds a whole lot like Vanilla WoW.
When WoW first launched the game was not as hard as EQ, but by today's standards the game was very hard.....a nice happy-medium you might say.
The world felt huge and because it was seemless (minimal loading screens) it felt like you really could go exploring.
There were markers to designate quest givers, but no in-game map markers to tell you exactly where to go.
It's sounding a lot to me like EQN could launch with many similarities to vanilla WoW, but open it up to be more sandboxy, add in player and guild housing, keep the lore from EQ and lots of people would be happy.
I actually don't want nothing like Vanilla WoW. I detest, loath and abhor linear gameplay.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I remember like it was yesterday, the first time I finally completed making myself a suit of Banded Armor in EQ1. Just your run of the mill basic armor set, AC but no bonuses. At that time, a lot of the drops hadn't been discovered yet. So having a set of Banded meant something.
I felt important because I was able to make it..and GOD did I feel safer wearing it.
Why was that so memorable? Because the game was HARD. And this one, hopefully, will be a change of pace from the casual stuff. Nothing wrong with those, but there are plenty of those to choose from. Make this game for ME, not for the millions of drones that want every class to be equal and every class to be able to solo. Too much balance is boring.
1.PvE/PvP existing together and no segregation, coexisting npc and pc factions.
Each region has resources to fight over both players and npcs, each region has strongholds, technology/magic research labs, dungeons, bosses, unique fauna,. You can't plan skirmished against your own region but all the others unless under truce treaty are open game. When you participate in content in ohter regions expect to face npc and players to try and impede.
Monsters are farmed by each faction. The purpose of farming them is to tame them and have them help protect your region. Machinery,weaponry,forts, rations,mounts are all crafted or breeded to strengthen your side. If anything is taken by the invading side it then becomes their properties until some other region takes it from them. Each region has a points allotment which determines how many and how powerful monsters can be in activity at once.
2.Quest, terrain, dungeon building tools for each region. Each region is giving weekly points determined by world rank. Those points determine how elaborate, huge, and difficult these player designed contents can be.
3.World changing forever. You kill anything in said content above. That npc or player is unable to respawn or participate in that particular event for a day to a week. You can lose anything in the game except for one safe city for each region. Meaning nothing is safe except for your region being driven to complete extinction. Got a coveted gear from another region? Chances are there is a plot being put into effect to reclaim what was lost.
4.Crafting as a job. Gone are the days of crafting oil for a machinery and calling it a day. There now are actual schools to earn license to pilot or operate anything in the game world. You earn a skillbook that open up dynamic hotbars to control machinery only available when learned. You must have a landscaping degree to modify terrain,etc. The higher learned you are in geography the more you can alter. Apply the same concept to creating buildings.
Npcs and players have emotional stats. These stats can be altered by interacting with them. Why would you want to alter them? To be friendly? To have them labeled traitor? Personal gain or vendetta? From their side all they see is you offering something but are unaware of your motives until it is too late. To achieve this when offering advice, gifts, or whatever a multiple choice would appear on the manipulator side in the UI letting you select your secret motive.
If their current emotional stat is labeled high. You can still offer whatever but they can see your plot. Does the npc still take your bribe, or do they offer a counter offer? Do they let you go for a price or plot to blackmail you? Do they let you walk away or imprison or kill you?
Everyone has emotional manipulation stats too. And each time you fail or succeed in attempts, these stats raise or lower. If it gets too low you lose the cunning to do that particular manipulation.
Note: For this emotional stat thing to work. Sony would have to somehow restrict users from using multiple accounts to abuse it.
I need to jump in here to discuss the difference between 'hard' and 'tedious' because so many of you, including the author of the article, still confuse the two.
So do you, as well.
There is a reason that games evolved from EQ 1 to include quest markers, and it wasn't about ease versus difficulty, it was to remove unnecessarily and unfun, tedious gameplay.
There's really nothing tedious about directionless quests, that makes no sense at all. It's more about world sense/immersion. If someone asks you to find someone, they are not going to tell you where exactly they are, that makes no sense. If someone tells you to kill gazelles, you're expected to know the terrain enough to know where they are. It had nothing to do with tedium, and everything with encouraging exploration and paying attention to the world. I personally find quests a lot more fun when I have to spend some time to figure out what I have to do or where or how. Otherwise, I don't really see the point of quests, I can grind mobs on my own if I want to...
If you want everything spelled out for you that's your choice, but you have it available to you and asking devs to add to your exploits is silly. You already are looking for the easy way out and you found it, nobody should help you with that.
I'm not disputing that having to figure out where to go can't be engaging, it can be. I'm simply stating the facts that the vast majority of people are not going to spend the time to do it. They are going to jump onto the internet, find exactly where to go, and go there, simple as that.
The developers realized that and so they added in quest marking because they knew most people weren't going to spend the time to figure it out on their own anyway. I would submit to you, that YOU can easily disable this feature in most games if you wish and therefore YOU can have all the fun in the world figuring out where to go on your own. I may not want that and so I can leave the quest marker enabled and get on with it, or pick and choose when I use it and when I don't.
The reality is if the feature is in the game you're going to use it to!
So, you're calling on the devs then, to spend time coding an extra feature, just so you can not have to look something up? I'd much rather have them spend time developing new content. Personally, I'd much rather read a quest that says, "Look past the manmouth mountains to find the widget" and have to figure out where the manmouth mountains were, or ask someone in game to show me, than to look it up, or instantly have an 'x' show up on my map, so I blindly follow to the marker, ignoring the rest of the world till I get there. Having these features in the game promotes lazy players, and if players aren't going to explore what the devs create, what motivation is there for the devs to create interesting features?
By your same logic, they ought to just tell people where the quests are, and have them teleported right there. I mean if the devs know you're not going to explore, and just go straight to the spot, why bother creating anything in between?
If you make exploration rewarding, people will explore. If you make it worthwhile for someone to find the mountains, or a better route through the mountains, they'll do it. If you put in items, quests, and interesting features, people will wander about and find them. If you get people to wander about and find interesting things, the devs will create more interesting things. Players will adapt to finding quest locations if you make finding the quest locations interesting. "It's good to have an end to journey to, but it's the journey that matters; in the end." ~ Ernest Hemingway. If the game makes the journey worth it, players will take it.
What this really means is that 'some' people will go exploring but the vast majority will either A) just google the location and go there by whatever route has already been mapped out as the fastest, or in the abscense of having any tools to find the locations, just quit the game.
Don't shoot the messenger for speaking the truth. What you would be left with is the very small hardcore and dedicated crowd. That may not be a bad thing to you, but to a company trying to make as much money as possible, the word 'small' is not what they want to hear in terms of players.
Sure people will google it, but not all of them will. I fancy a guess that the majority of players, especially those on this site do not want hand holding from the Devs. Removal of linear gameplay is an important part of solid and gratifying gameplay but the problem is people for the most part will use what ever tools are readily available. If those tools are not developed in the game then they either will seek help else where or learn on their own. Which is what we all want in the long run.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I happen to really like quest finder tools and quest hubs. I don't think they make a game less "hard" just faster to get done when my time is short. Think about this. Take a game like FFXI. It's a pretty unforgiving game and it's quests take some research to figure out how to do. I personally always just used a guide or online guides to get them done. Imagine if they had just put quest tracking in the game and showed folk where the quests are yet didn't change the actual quest itself or it's objective. Guess what? Still hard as hell to accomplish. Which means, these extra tools DON"T make the game EASIER. Really wish you "challenge" nuts would stop speaking for "most gamers" when it's not a universal desire.
Just had to pipe up on your number "5. Make it Hard again." The rest are ok I guess.
Sorry to say it, but having your hand held was what WoW brought to the genre and a lot of us old EQ players are sick of it. The things you mention were Putin place so those that wanted to get what everyone else has but feel they don't need to put even a tenth of the effort in to EARN it. You do not and will not deserve every accomplishment for little or no effort in a game or in life. Just because I get something by putting in effort to earn it in no way means that you should be able to get it just you feel better about yourself. If you don't have the time to invest, yes I used that word, in learning a game and earning your rewards, then maybe that game isn't for you and you need to move along. That is not meant to be mean, just the honest truth.
That being said, if SOE makes the game hard, do everyone a favor and stay away, don't visit forums demanding equal rewards for reduced effort and have fun playing whatever game you find that brings you joy. If they make it easy, most old schoolers will get bored and quit and allow you to play without a bunch of elitist s so you can be walked threw a game and earning nothing.
I need to jump in here to discuss the difference between 'hard' and 'tedious' because so many of you, including the author of the article, still confuse the two.
So do you, as well.
There is a reason that games evolved from EQ 1 to include quest markers, and it wasn't about ease versus difficulty, it was to remove unnecessarily and unfun, tedious gameplay.
There's really nothing tedious about directionless quests, that makes no sense at all. It's more about world sense/immersion. If someone asks you to find someone, they are not going to tell you where exactly they are, that makes no sense. If someone tells you to kill gazelles, you're expected to know the terrain enough to know where they are. It had nothing to do with tedium, and everything with encouraging exploration and paying attention to the world. I personally find quests a lot more fun when I have to spend some time to figure out what I have to do or where or how. Otherwise, I don't really see the point of quests, I can grind mobs on my own if I want to...
If you want everything spelled out for you that's your choice, but you have it available to you and asking devs to add to your exploits is silly. You already are looking for the easy way out and you found it, nobody should help you with that.
I'm not disputing that having to figure out where to go can't be engaging, it can be. I'm simply stating the facts that the vast majority of people are not going to spend the time to do it. They are going to jump onto the internet, find exactly where to go, and go there, simple as that.
The developers realized that and so they added in quest marking because they knew most people weren't going to spend the time to figure it out on their own anyway. I would submit to you, that YOU can easily disable this feature in most games if you wish and therefore YOU can have all the fun in the world figuring out where to go on your own. I may not want that and so I can leave the quest marker enabled and get on with it, or pick and choose when I use it and when I don't.
The reality is if the feature is in the game you're going to use it to!
quest markers, are a perfect example of how lazy certain gamers are nowdays.
i tried neverwinter three days ago, theres a glowing line that directs you right to the next thing you need to do.
how.lame..
uninstalled, most boring 4 hrs of my life, and was level 10 before i knew it. /yawn
I'm fine with crafters being able to make stuff equal to loot drops or allowing them to modify loot drops to better suit your class, but I am not interested in a crafting focused game that neuters loot rewards in order to give crafters the best gear. Adventuring reward systems come first as it is the primary reason why most gamers play. Holding adventurers hostage to a niche play style is a very bad idea. It hasn't worked well in past games and for good reason.
While all this is wishful thinking I am inclined to believe SOE will sell out by catering to the masses who prefer to be handled with kid gloves and spoon fed. Hard and challenging are no longer concepts deemed ideal in building a healthy bottom line.
I happen to really like quest finder tools and quest hubs. I don't think they make a game less "hard" just faster to get done when my time is short. Think about this. Take a game like FFXI. It's a pretty unforgiving game and it's quests take some research to figure out how to do. I personally always just used a guide or online guides to get them done. Imagine if they had just put quest tracking in the game and showed folk where the quests are yet didn't change the actual quest itself or it's objective. Guess what? Still hard as hell to accomplish. Which means, these extra tools DON"T make the game EASIER. Really wish you "challenge" nuts would stop speaking for "most gamers" when it's not a universal desire.
Just had to pipe up on your number "5. Make it Hard again." The rest are ok I guess.
Sorry to say it, but having your hand held was what WoW brought to the genre and a lot of us old EQ players are sick of it. The things you mention were Putin place so those that wanted to get what everyone else has but feel they don't need to put even a tenth of the effort in to EARN it. You do not and will not deserve every accomplishment for little or no effort in a game or in life. Just because I get something by putting in effort to earn it in no way means that you should be able to get it just you feel better about yourself. If you don't have the time to invest, yes I used that word, in learning a game and earning your rewards, then maybe that game isn't for you and you need to move along. That is not meant to be mean, just the honest truth.
That being said, if SOE makes the game hard, do everyone a favor and stay away, don't visit forums demanding equal rewards for reduced effort and have fun playing whatever game you find that brings you joy. If they make it easy, most old schoolers will get bored and quit and allow you to play without a bunch of elitist s so you can be walked threw a game and earning nothing.
No, having you hand held is NOT what WoW brought to the genre. Matter of fact, they didn't have the quest objectives marked for years, that came in later in answer to all the other MMOs that started doing it, after realizing that people don't have the TIME to play games the way EQ1 gamers did. It's called evolving past the BS that was meant to consume time on purpose in order for SOE to make a buck. I think you are just stuck in that same mode of play and think that any change is bad or is "dumbing down".
My whole point is, I don't want to log onto EQNext to find that in the very first quest or 2 I'm scratching my head in frustration because I haven't a clue as to where I'm supposed to go or what to do. I don't want a "harder" game, not by everyone's current definition of "harder" but I do want a nice, deep "layered" game, much like FFXIV is doing and what FFXI did. I don't want to mindlessly grind mobs in a camp for hours on end just to level up and I don't want the game to be the equivalent of Wizardry Online or Demon Soul's "hard" so that I just want to find the developers and ram the game down their throats.
Oh, and you said "hand it to you" instead of working for it, explain to me how things are handed to me in a game that put's X on the map to mark a spot(which you can turn OFF in every game that has this, by the way) and then let's YOU do the work of getting there and out alive and in one piece as opposed to not giving you the x and just giving you abstract directions that make you wander the whole area? Is it the length of time that you think gives YOU more credence to be an elitist because that's the major difference here, TIME. Not actual challenge of content, which is something else altogether and has nothing to do with hand-holding tutorials or quests objectives shown on the map.
Just stopped in to take note of all the folks that will be raging once Next comes out and fails to live up to 90% of the hype. I hold 0 faith in SOE to produce anything worth playing... their track record of the last few years speaks for itself.
5 is basically "apple pie". Everyone says they're for it, until they realize that the EQ "quest system" amounted to lazy outsourcing of solutions to spoiler sites.
3 is nice, but even just a progress bar is better than a Bad game like EQ2's. Much more important is WHAT can be crafted. If we can't craft open world houses and useful furniture, plus ships and castles, plus be able to do farming on our lots, then EQN is behind the curve in sandbox features, not ahead of it.
1 is weirdly written. If each newly spawned boss "has his own story", who writes this story? That seems to work against the economics of game development. Better would be monster populations that evolve and grow procedurally and generate bosses over time when left unhindered for too long. eg emergent story.
consoles have come along way, i used to be like you, consoles were inferior, but... hey times a changing, ps4 will be a very powerful piece of machinery, i daresay more powerful than a decent chunk of the pc user base that frequents these boards., yes keyboard / mouse is awesome, but if you are familure with a controller, you can still have 20+ combos, and if you have the keyboard attachment, well all is moot.
a console mmorpg can have all the depth of a pc mmorpg , look at the eq ps2 experiment, and as for graphics, all i can say is that skyrim has pretty great graphics, and thats on a ps3, couple years old tech.
having said that i will continue to play on my pc, as its far more powerfulbut i will probobly also have the game for the ps4 as well, because in the end, especially if your doing mundane things, sitting in front of your 60 inch tv drinking a beer, and playing a good game is sweet.
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That's fine. But if you do I want to be able to burn it down if it is an eyesore.
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What this really means is that 'some' people will go exploring but the vast majority will either A) just google the location and go there by whatever route has already been mapped out as the fastest, or
in the abscense of having any tools to find the locations, just quit the game.
Don't shoot the messenger for speaking the truth. What you would be left with is the very small hardcore and dedicated crowd. That may not be a bad thing to you, but to a company trying to make as much money as possible, the word 'small' is not what they want to hear in terms of players.
the thing is, if you want a game that has quest hubs, quest trackers, group finders there are 5 or 6 very good games for you. WoW, rift, EQ2, aion, LOTRO all come to mind. whereas those of us who want a "harder" game or at any rate a less "handholding" game we only have 2 right now, Eve and Darkfall... and darkfall is still on the cusp of paid beta status (mortal is firmly pre-production to me so i didnt count it)
That's why so many of us in that camp wish for each new game that comes out to follow the harder formula.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
And I want to level my cooking skill using the fire from said eyesore.
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I liked your post and agree with everything mostly. I think the idea of unlocking classes sounds weird but thats me.
Only issue I took was with this snippet.
"see about the next best thing in the genre." In your opinion.
Saying its the next best thing is a jump in logic. What happens when we assume things kids?
They make us look like an A-S-S out of U and M-E.
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
http://s36.photobucket.com/user/mhoward48/media/OnwYv97.jpg.html
I hear your concern, and it was certainly one I was quite vocal about 2 years ago on the EQ2 and EQ2Wire discussions. Thing is, we just don't know at this point. If it is being made for the PS4 and the PC version is simplified to match it..definitely a pass for me. We just have to wait and see how it turns out.
I actually don't want nothing like Vanilla WoW. I detest, loath and abhor linear gameplay.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I remember like it was yesterday, the first time I finally completed making myself a suit of Banded Armor in EQ1. Just your run of the mill basic armor set, AC but no bonuses. At that time, a lot of the drops hadn't been discovered yet. So having a set of Banded meant something.
I felt important because I was able to make it..and GOD did I feel safer wearing it.
Why was that so memorable? Because the game was HARD. And this one, hopefully, will be a change of pace from the casual stuff. Nothing wrong with those, but there are plenty of those to choose from. Make this game for ME, not for the millions of drones that want every class to be equal and every class to be able to solo. Too much balance is boring.
1.PvE/PvP existing together and no segregation, coexisting npc and pc factions.
Each region has resources to fight over both players and npcs, each region has strongholds, technology/magic research labs, dungeons, bosses, unique fauna,. You can't plan skirmished against your own region but all the others unless under truce treaty are open game. When you participate in content in ohter regions expect to face npc and players to try and impede.
Monsters are farmed by each faction. The purpose of farming them is to tame them and have them help protect your region. Machinery,weaponry,forts, rations,mounts are all crafted or breeded to strengthen your side. If anything is taken by the invading side it then becomes their properties until some other region takes it from them. Each region has a points allotment which determines how many and how powerful monsters can be in activity at once.
2.Quest, terrain, dungeon building tools for each region. Each region is giving weekly points determined by world rank. Those points determine how elaborate, huge, and difficult these player designed contents can be.
3.World changing forever. You kill anything in said content above. That npc or player is unable to respawn or participate in that particular event for a day to a week. You can lose anything in the game except for one safe city for each region. Meaning nothing is safe except for your region being driven to complete extinction. Got a coveted gear from another region? Chances are there is a plot being put into effect to reclaim what was lost.
4.Crafting as a job. Gone are the days of crafting oil for a machinery and calling it a day. There now are actual schools to earn license to pilot or operate anything in the game world. You earn a skillbook that open up dynamic hotbars to control machinery only available when learned. You must have a landscaping degree to modify terrain,etc. The higher learned you are in geography the more you can alter. Apply the same concept to creating buildings.
Npcs and players have emotional stats. These stats can be altered by interacting with them. Why would you want to alter them? To be friendly? To have them labeled traitor? Personal gain or vendetta? From their side all they see is you offering something but are unaware of your motives until it is too late. To achieve this when offering advice, gifts, or whatever a multiple choice would appear on the manipulator side in the UI letting you select your secret motive.
If their current emotional stat is labeled high. You can still offer whatever but they can see your plot. Does the npc still take your bribe, or do they offer a counter offer? Do they let you go for a price or plot to blackmail you? Do they let you walk away or imprison or kill you?
Everyone has emotional manipulation stats too. And each time you fail or succeed in attempts, these stats raise or lower. If it gets too low you lose the cunning to do that particular manipulation.
Note: For this emotional stat thing to work. Sony would have to somehow restrict users from using multiple accounts to abuse it.
Sure people will google it, but not all of them will. I fancy a guess that the majority of players, especially those on this site do not want hand holding from the Devs. Removal of linear gameplay is an important part of solid and gratifying gameplay but the problem is people for the most part will use what ever tools are readily available. If those tools are not developed in the game then they either will seek help else where or learn on their own. Which is what we all want in the long run.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
-Decent player housing, with things to do @ your house (Like in Atlantica Online)
-Mini games......... we miss mini games in mmorpg wich can add so much more fun to it.
-Make crafting harder and time consuming.
-Make the game harder agian.
Sorry to say it, but having your hand held was what WoW brought to the genre and a lot of us old EQ players are sick of it. The things you mention were Putin place so those that wanted to get what everyone else has but feel they don't need to put even a tenth of the effort in to EARN it. You do not and will not deserve every accomplishment for little or no effort in a game or in life. Just because I get something by putting in effort to earn it in no way means that you should be able to get it just you feel better about yourself. If you don't have the time to invest, yes I used that word, in learning a game and earning your rewards, then maybe that game isn't for you and you need to move along. That is not meant to be mean, just the honest truth.
That being said, if SOE makes the game hard, do everyone a favor and stay away, don't visit forums demanding equal rewards for reduced effort and have fun playing whatever game you find that brings you joy. If they make it easy, most old schoolers will get bored and quit and allow you to play without a bunch of elitist s so you can be walked threw a game and earning nothing.
Crafting as a mini game? That's funny. I posted that on these forums a long time ago.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4345199#4345199
quest markers, are a perfect example of how lazy certain gamers are nowdays.
i tried neverwinter three days ago, theres a glowing line that directs you right to the next thing you need to do.
how.lame..
uninstalled, most boring 4 hrs of my life, and was level 10 before i knew it. /yawn
i
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
No, having you hand held is NOT what WoW brought to the genre. Matter of fact, they didn't have the quest objectives marked for years, that came in later in answer to all the other MMOs that started doing it, after realizing that people don't have the TIME to play games the way EQ1 gamers did. It's called evolving past the BS that was meant to consume time on purpose in order for SOE to make a buck. I think you are just stuck in that same mode of play and think that any change is bad or is "dumbing down".
My whole point is, I don't want to log onto EQNext to find that in the very first quest or 2 I'm scratching my head in frustration because I haven't a clue as to where I'm supposed to go or what to do. I don't want a "harder" game, not by everyone's current definition of "harder" but I do want a nice, deep "layered" game, much like FFXIV is doing and what FFXI did. I don't want to mindlessly grind mobs in a camp for hours on end just to level up and I don't want the game to be the equivalent of Wizardry Online or Demon Soul's "hard" so that I just want to find the developers and ram the game down their throats.
Oh, and you said "hand it to you" instead of working for it, explain to me how things are handed to me in a game that put's X on the map to mark a spot(which you can turn OFF in every game that has this, by the way) and then let's YOU do the work of getting there and out alive and in one piece as opposed to not giving you the x and just giving you abstract directions that make you wander the whole area? Is it the length of time that you think gives YOU more credence to be an elitist because that's the major difference here, TIME. Not actual challenge of content, which is something else altogether and has nothing to do with hand-holding tutorials or quests objectives shown on the map.
This isn't a very impressive wish list.
2 and 4 are the same thing and basically a given.
5 is basically "apple pie". Everyone says they're for it, until they realize that the EQ "quest system" amounted to lazy outsourcing of solutions to spoiler sites.
3 is nice, but even just a progress bar is better than a Bad game like EQ2's. Much more important is WHAT can be crafted. If we can't craft open world houses and useful furniture, plus ships and castles, plus be able to do farming on our lots, then EQN is behind the curve in sandbox features, not ahead of it.
1 is weirdly written. If each newly spawned boss "has his own story", who writes this story? That seems to work against the economics of game development. Better would be monster populations that evolve and grow procedurally and generate bosses over time when left unhindered for too long. eg emergent story.
well said
seriously, grow up fellas
consoles have come along way, i used to be like you, consoles were inferior, but... hey times a changing, ps4 will be a very powerful piece of machinery, i daresay more powerful than a decent chunk of the pc user base that frequents these boards., yes keyboard / mouse is awesome, but if you are familure with a controller, you can still have 20+ combos, and if you have the keyboard attachment, well all is moot.
a console mmorpg can have all the depth of a pc mmorpg , look at the eq ps2 experiment, and as for graphics, all i can say is that skyrim has pretty great graphics, and thats on a ps3, couple years old tech.
having said that i will continue to play on my pc, as its far more powerfulbut i will probobly also have the game for the ps4 as well, because in the end, especially if your doing mundane things, sitting in front of your 60 inch tv drinking a beer, and playing a good game is sweet.
cheers
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...