Highly defined classes, that do one thing well. Warriors that are tanks, wizards that can blast wide areas, assassins that kill fast, clerics that heal the injured, rangers that can track a rare beast from 10 miles away...etc!
We'll get a WORLD, 100%real time feeling, like watching true a window. You'll age and die in the end. Living IN Norath, not playing a game. Got it.... Whahahaahaaa 1 more week!!!!
Playing: TESO (great!) ************** Most looking forward for: Everquest Next ************** Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
Its a nice list but i think a lot of people are living in the past. Whether we like it or not, this genre has moved forward. We can write posts, complain out loud or start up that old game, but it wont matter. I think some of us need to look in the mirror and realize that we wont get old school games like this anymore. Was vanilla WoW amazing? Yes it was, but it was also 9 years ago. I bet a lot of us are in our thirties now, with families and real jobs. Who has time to grind for a skill for months. I know I don't. If I spent as much time on the comp as I used to do when i was in my twenties I would be castrated then divorced.Lets all wake up and realize where this genre has gone and where it will likely go. We either suck it up and play or we bemoan the good old days and turn bitter with each mmo release.
Games like Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are proof that is not just rose colored glasses for the good old days. We want a challenge and time sink! I'm 29 next month and will always make time for games as its a hobby I've always enjoyed.
1: Return of the grind! (Ever since Eq the path to max level has become alarmingly shorter, this is counter productive for both the devs and the player, as the overall lifespan of the game is considerably lowered, atm the path to max lvl is nothing more then a tutorial for the endgame)
2: A Player run world! (Allow players to control the games pre-determined factions, no more static npc king! pre-determined town locations, but the content of the town should be decided by players. A ever running political/military struggle between players for control of towns or even factions. a finite amount of player houses per town, aswell as hotel rooms, make people interact to aquire theyr house, this will also strengthen the game economy, pvpers would be the military backbone of a faction, with pver's being the economical backbone. And no pvp should not be forced on anyone.
3: A massive diverse world! (Filled with landmarks, massive mountain ranges, deserts, snowlands and oceans, clear territory borders (contestable), secrets and truely rare and unique creatures.)
4: Limited Auto Travel! (No npc contolled instant travel, instead add Boats and carriages and allow for a player run travel system, mabye also some limited instant travel abilities for certain classes with significant side-effects.)
5: Bosses that are not meant to be beaten! (Or atleast it should feel like it to the player, If there was a need the bosses could be scaled down over time, Also there should be bosses with heavily randomized skill sets to not turn boss killing into a routine)
Going one over the 5 limit here but I feel this one is as important as the 5 first.
6: turn crafting into diffrent minigames based on the craft with scores 1-100, based on score the quality of the item would be 1-100%, the difficulty of the minigame should be based on rarity and level of recipe, crafting the top tier items with a 100% score should be close to impossible.
This would give crafters something to work toward, and becoming as good as possible at these minigames would ultimately be very rewarding, It would also create the possibility of becoming a well known/famous crafters.
I happen to really like quest finder tools and quest hubs. I don't think they make a game less "hard" just faster to get done when my time is short. Think about this. Take a game like FFXI. It's a pretty unforgiving game and it's quests take some research to figure out how to do. I personally always just used a guide or online guides to get them done. Imagine if they had just put quest tracking in the game and showed folk where the quests are yet didn't change the actual quest itself or it's objective. Guess what? Still hard as hell to accomplish. Which means, these extra tools DON"T make the game EASIER. Really wish you "challenge" nuts would stop speaking for "most gamers" when it's not a universal desire.
Just had to pipe up on your number "5. Make it Hard again." The rest are ok I guess.
I am with you, man. There are a lot of people on these forums that want their games to be so slow and difficult that they become like second jobs and the term "fun" takes on a different meaning. These people are loud and well represented on the forums, but they represent a niche of a niche and the game they want isn't likely to make any money for the devs. I understand the desire for some to have to work so hard at something that when you complete it, you can be satisfied because you are one of the few people that did it, but on the other hand, the vast majority of gamers don't find tedium and endless grind fun.
I personally would like a giant fantasy sandbox that has open world PVP with no battlegrounds or arenas to dilute the action and objectives that mean something, like holding keeps and towers in DAoC. Deep crafting, a player driven economy, and deep systems are a necessity in this type of game. The devs have to make the game FUN, though, and tedium and grind aren't a good substitute.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
with regards to the comments about quest markers and difficulty: i have noticed some games have the quests marked on the map and mini map and you can't turn it off. i remember when WoW addons first popped up with coordinates and then markers and then eventually there was a function on the actual game to turn the markers on or off. i wonder if having this feature led to the dumbing down of the actual quest text making it more logical to just use the markers? also, if you have the ability to make the game more difficult, with these marker settings and also maybe with a difficulty setting (not sure how to implement on an mmo) maybe it would be more fun for you, while someone who prefers it with markers and maybe less mobs, or easier can change it to fit their preferences. i personally enjoy having to read through the quest and run around trying to find the physical markers in the world to find what i am supposed to be looking for. because of this, it doesn't matter if it is on google, because i am not going to go look it up on google. if i really want to try to figure it out on my own then i will, whether someone already posted it a hundred thousand times online or not. just my opinion. basically, it'd be nice for people to be able to set it how they like (for the quests and map markers, and maybe even quest text content)
Originally posted by likenew Highly defined classes, that do one thing well. Warriors that are tanks, wizards that can blast wide areas, assassins that kill fast, clerics that heal the injured, rangers that can track a rare beast from 10 miles away...etc!
What an awful thought. Restrictive classes are absolutely the last thing they need. They need to have an extensive skill tree since it seems they are having classes, where you can uniquely define your avatar. Without that, the game will not be a sandbox. That is the problem with most of these theme park games, classes that are way to defined. You sound like a theme park player, that is your niche.
I like your list Suzie. Let's hope they have something on that order.
These are the 5 things I want to see in EQN (that made EQ one of my fav MMOs):
1. YEs make the game hard again...I dont mind downtime after a fight...I dont mind having to group with others to achuieve things....No ! or ? or tutorials....Let us figure it out
2. Death penalty and corpse run...I know alot of people hate this but it makes you respect the world and learn how to play so much better...It also adds risk/reward which makes games more fun
3. factions mean something.....Yes make it so my dwarf is hated by Dark Elves, Ogres, Trolls, and many other races.....It is actually fun being KOS and going ot their cities to kill guards or sneak around.
4. Crafting needs to ahve some value....It took me awhile in EQ and most tradeskills were not very good, but I did find a couple where I made good plat when I reached a high enough level....Also make it difficult to reach these heights....Games like WoW, Rift, etc where everyone and their mother has reached max level easily in crafting ruins everything really.
5. Give my character a role to playand unique things that make them valuable to other players.....Kinda like Temp for the Cleric, KEI for Chanter, SoW, ports, etc......The great thing that EQ did in its heyday was made everyone valuable......Lets get back to role playing MMOs again.....
Now whether we actually see any of these things or not is up to debate......Too little is known about this title, and I have no idea what Smed means when he says it is going to be a sandbox......
Its a nice list but i think a lot of people are living in the past. Whether we like it or not, this genre has moved forward. We can write posts, complain out loud or start up that old game, but it wont matter. I think some of us need to look in the mirror and realize that we wont get old school games like this anymore. Was vanilla WoW amazing? Yes it was, but it was also 9 years ago. I bet a lot of us are in our thirties now, with families and real jobs. Who has time to grind for a skill for months. I know I don't. If I spent as much time on the comp as I used to do when i was in my twenties I would be castrated then divorced.
Lets all wake up and realize where this genre has gone and where it will likely go. We either suck it up and play or we bemoan the good old days and turn bitter with each mmo release.
im 29 and i work 50 hours a week and have kids etc i still have time to raid and all the rest of it just like i did in vanila, why do people seem to think the way you do?
Just because you can only play 1 -2 hours a night doesnt mean you cant enjoy it like "vanila" why is there this need to do everything in teh first week? so you can only play few hours a week? does it matter if you dont get there as fast as people that have no job? no it doesnt its not a race
Cool list,though I think Suzie misses the mark on number 3, crafting.
Crafting doesn't need to be "and Active Game". By that it suggests she wants it to be as EQ2's crafting was in the beginning. A minigame akin to whack a mole that if you didn't whack the right mole you lose.
I disagree that crafting should be like that. Instead I think it should be more like it was in SWG. There it was more of a mental exercise IF you wanted it to be. Raw materials should be dynamic, should be available in several varieties, should spawn dynamically and should be finite.
This way is someone wanted to "just make a sword" they could grab the first iron ore they come across and combine it with the first wood they see and voila, a mundane sword. No, they could get lucky and make something awesome, but unlikely.
Now, the true crafter would look at the various stats see that Northern Iron gives a higher base damage while Southern Iron gives a Bleed effect. The available NI with the stat DI (Damage Increase) is rated at 76. Not bad. The SI available with the Bleed Increase stat is rated at 96. Hmm, what to do.
Most time in that situation you'd make one of each, give it to you friend Carl the Fighter and have him beat up level appropriate stuff and track avg dmg per it, crit dmg, etc. Then based on that you'd pick which to manufacture in quantity to sell to other players. Of course while Carl is testing you on the other hand are hitting vendors or AH to see which of the two seem to be selling, for how much, how fast and getting a ballpark ROI for each.
That's the kind of play I'd like to see in crafting. Sans the AH and usage of personal vendors which would make crafters have to work that much harder to make a name for themselves.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I agree with making it hard to kill mobs and finish quests in the games but only if it does'nt force you to join horible boring raids with people that think they are the best f''k the rest. The days of fun grouping raiding are over exept for few people that can make large enough guilds with close friends. Imo raids and grouping is extreamly boring in most games the last few years. Time to take social activities to new level and let the questing and hunting for small groups.
The old days are gone, regretfully. Any game that wants to grab 'a goodly chunk' of players is going to aim for casuals (and those of us with limited time slots). Quest will never be hardcore (really hardcore) again.
Sad to say. Also, unless there is grinding out drops/time/xp (ah for the days of the 1 drop in 5K of L2) which will kill the short-timers anything that can be done once will be posted on the internet and a good many folks will use the guides out there.
5- hard quests? > go X website to see how to finish it
4- Connections , I agree
3- Crafting like in eq2?or FFXIV? meh will be boring in a week
2- Grinding for months sure is fun......
1- yeah because ppl want to miss content because others killed the content already , whats happens when every outdoor boss is killed for the week? wait until next week and hope u are online when 10000 ppl are camping everything ?
Translation: I'm a special snowflake, and I deserve to have everything ready for me to do at any given moment. If you do not cater to my sense of self entitlement since I paid a whole 50 dollars for your multimillion dollar game, I will tell everyone your game is trash and caters to the "elitists" (aka: The people who don't want their twinkie held when they use the restroom).
Comments
Holy crap!
Where do I sign?!?!
Hi! My name is paper. Nerf scissors, rock is fine.
MMORPG = Mostly Men Online Roleplaying Girls
http://www.MichaelLuckhardt.com
I like your list. However, ain't gonna happen. Devs are not designing MMORPGs anymore.
gameplay > graphics
Playing: TESO (great!)
**************
Most looking forward for: Everquest Next
**************
Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift
Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
I agree totally with the OP
SPOT ON
Games like Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are proof that is not just rose colored glasses for the good old days. We want a challenge and time sink! I'm 29 next month and will always make time for games as its a hobby I've always enjoyed.Hard
Group dependent
Open world, world bosses and events.
LARGE variety in character building.
3 factions.
Server/ game ends like TRAVIAN with winning faction winning some boon.
1: Return of the grind! (Ever since Eq the path to max level has become alarmingly shorter, this is counter productive for both the devs and the player, as the overall lifespan of the game is considerably lowered, atm the path to max lvl is nothing more then a tutorial for the endgame)
2: A Player run world! (Allow players to control the games pre-determined factions, no more static npc king! pre-determined town locations, but the content of the town should be decided by players. A ever running political/military struggle between players for control of towns or even factions. a finite amount of player houses per town, aswell as hotel rooms, make people interact to aquire theyr house, this will also strengthen the game economy, pvpers would be the military backbone of a faction, with pver's being the economical backbone. And no pvp should not be forced on anyone.
3: A massive diverse world! (Filled with landmarks, massive mountain ranges, deserts, snowlands and oceans, clear territory borders (contestable), secrets and truely rare and unique creatures.)
4: Limited Auto Travel! (No npc contolled instant travel, instead add Boats and carriages and allow for a player run travel system, mabye also some limited instant travel abilities for certain classes with significant side-effects.)
5: Bosses that are not meant to be beaten! (Or atleast it should feel like it to the player, If there was a need the bosses could be scaled down over time, Also there should be bosses with heavily randomized skill sets to not turn boss killing into a routine)
Going one over the 5 limit here but I feel this one is as important as the 5 first.
6: turn crafting into diffrent minigames based on the craft with scores 1-100, based on score the quality of the item would be 1-100%, the difficulty of the minigame should be based on rarity and level of recipe, crafting the top tier items with a 100% score should be close to impossible.
This would give crafters something to work toward, and becoming as good as possible at these minigames would ultimately be very rewarding, It would also create the possibility of becoming a well known/famous crafters.
I am with you, man. There are a lot of people on these forums that want their games to be so slow and difficult that they become like second jobs and the term "fun" takes on a different meaning. These people are loud and well represented on the forums, but they represent a niche of a niche and the game they want isn't likely to make any money for the devs. I understand the desire for some to have to work so hard at something that when you complete it, you can be satisfied because you are one of the few people that did it, but on the other hand, the vast majority of gamers don't find tedium and endless grind fun.
I personally would like a giant fantasy sandbox that has open world PVP with no battlegrounds or arenas to dilute the action and objectives that mean something, like holding keeps and towers in DAoC. Deep crafting, a player driven economy, and deep systems are a necessity in this type of game. The devs have to make the game FUN, though, and tedium and grind aren't a good substitute.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
What an awful thought. Restrictive classes are absolutely the last thing they need. They need to have an extensive skill tree since it seems they are having classes, where you can uniquely define your avatar. Without that, the game will not be a sandbox. That is the problem with most of these theme park games, classes that are way to defined. You sound like a theme park player, that is your niche.
I like your list Suzie. Let's hope they have something on that order.
These are the 5 things I want to see in EQN (that made EQ one of my fav MMOs):
1. YEs make the game hard again...I dont mind downtime after a fight...I dont mind having to group with others to achuieve things....No ! or ? or tutorials....Let us figure it out
2. Death penalty and corpse run...I know alot of people hate this but it makes you respect the world and learn how to play so much better...It also adds risk/reward which makes games more fun
3. factions mean something.....Yes make it so my dwarf is hated by Dark Elves, Ogres, Trolls, and many other races.....It is actually fun being KOS and going ot their cities to kill guards or sneak around.
4. Crafting needs to ahve some value....It took me awhile in EQ and most tradeskills were not very good, but I did find a couple where I made good plat when I reached a high enough level....Also make it difficult to reach these heights....Games like WoW, Rift, etc where everyone and their mother has reached max level easily in crafting ruins everything really.
5. Give my character a role to playand unique things that make them valuable to other players.....Kinda like Temp for the Cleric, KEI for Chanter, SoW, ports, etc......The great thing that EQ did in its heyday was made everyone valuable......Lets get back to role playing MMOs again.....
Now whether we actually see any of these things or not is up to debate......Too little is known about this title, and I have no idea what Smed means when he says it is going to be a sandbox......
I'm confused as to the point of this article, since Mmmorpg.com already saw EQ Next in action at E3 and already gave it the "best-of-show" award.
This article is implying as if the staff of Mmorpg.com does not have a clue about what is actually in game?
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
LOL. "Vanilla WoW" was "hard"? By what standards? Most people who came back to EQ from WoW complained that it was too easy.
WoW doesn't come in different flavors. It's always been one flavor. Easy.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
im 29 and i work 50 hours a week and have kids etc i still have time to raid and all the rest of it just like i did in vanila, why do people seem to think the way you do?
Just because you can only play 1 -2 hours a night doesnt mean you cant enjoy it like "vanila" why is there this need to do everything in teh first week? so you can only play few hours a week? does it matter if you dont get there as fast as people that have no job? no it doesnt its not a race
Cool list,though I think Suzie misses the mark on number 3, crafting.
Crafting doesn't need to be "and Active Game". By that it suggests she wants it to be as EQ2's crafting was in the beginning. A minigame akin to whack a mole that if you didn't whack the right mole you lose.
I disagree that crafting should be like that. Instead I think it should be more like it was in SWG. There it was more of a mental exercise IF you wanted it to be. Raw materials should be dynamic, should be available in several varieties, should spawn dynamically and should be finite.
This way is someone wanted to "just make a sword" they could grab the first iron ore they come across and combine it with the first wood they see and voila, a mundane sword. No, they could get lucky and make something awesome, but unlikely.
Now, the true crafter would look at the various stats see that Northern Iron gives a higher base damage while Southern Iron gives a Bleed effect. The available NI with the stat DI (Damage Increase) is rated at 76. Not bad. The SI available with the Bleed Increase stat is rated at 96. Hmm, what to do.
Most time in that situation you'd make one of each, give it to you friend Carl the Fighter and have him beat up level appropriate stuff and track avg dmg per it, crit dmg, etc. Then based on that you'd pick which to manufacture in quantity to sell to other players. Of course while Carl is testing you on the other hand are hitting vendors or AH to see which of the two seem to be selling, for how much, how fast and getting a ballpark ROI for each.
That's the kind of play I'd like to see in crafting. Sans the AH and usage of personal vendors which would make crafters have to work that much harder to make a name for themselves.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
First, we have to agree on what 'HARD' means:
- Weeks of grinding?
- Only available if in a giant group?
- Only fightable if wearing Tier AAA armor?
- Long, complicated Press Button A-Then Button X-Then Button C... etc boss fights?
The Weekly Wizardry blog
For the most part I agree with this list, I would like to see an MMO that's challenging but makes it worth the effort like EQ1 did.
And for the record Vanilla WoW was by no means difficult. It was the fisher price of MMOs back then just like it is today.
The old days are gone, regretfully. Any game that wants to grab 'a goodly chunk' of players is going to aim for casuals (and those of us with limited time slots). Quest will never be hardcore (really hardcore) again.
Sad to say. Also, unless there is grinding out drops/time/xp (ah for the days of the 1 drop in 5K of L2) which will kill the short-timers anything that can be done once will be posted on the internet and a good many folks will use the guides out there.
Translation: I'm a special snowflake, and I deserve to have everything ready for me to do at any given moment. If you do not cater to my sense of self entitlement since I paid a whole 50 dollars for your multimillion dollar game, I will tell everyone your game is trash and caters to the "elitists" (aka: The people who don't want their twinkie held when they use the restroom).