Time to get over it and move on people, or quite playing the genre. It's never going to go back to subscription models for anything going forward, unless you just want to stick with FFXIV: ARR. I don't like it much either, but seriously, move on, deal with it, or stick to single player games from now on.
BUT, this game is designed to nickel and dime you one way or another from the start.
Is it now? And you'd know that how exactly?
For people like you ?.....I say, shut up !
Ok, I guess I have to spell out the something that was black and white for the pat two years !
We have a list of about 125 of the 150 mmos that are F2P and use trickery !.....Are you expecting Everquest Next to be different ?.... Some kind of magical formula that no one used yet. One that is really truly in the players favor !
I could sit here and list 40 of them and give details, DEEP DETAILS of cash shop trickery. I say 40 instead of 125 because I would only talk about the popular ones, big name ones !
But I'm not !!!!!....If you have not caught on to the trickery, you have not been playing mmos for the past two years, or you have a credit card problem and should seek counseling unless your rich.
Trickery?
What trickery?
where in any game do they sell you 1 "potion of instawin and you receive 1 "potion of trickery" instead??
Unless you are talking about gambling lockboxes, which still pay out what they advertise. So no trickery.
Unless you are talking about founder packs for games that did not meet you preconcived notions of how good it would be. But still getting everything in said founders pack. Still no trickery that I can see.
So what exactly do you mean by "cash shop trickery?"
Please spell it out in "black and white."
Edit:
P.S. I've played many F2P MMO's over the last two years and not once have I spent more than $15 a month. I attribute that to a little thing that has gone out of style called self control. . .
Originally posted by page975 Originally posted by page975 Originally posted by Naqaj Originally posted by page975 BUT, this game is designed to nickel and dime you one way or another from the start.
Is it now? And you'd know that how exactly?
For people like you ?.....I say, shut up !
Ok, I guess I have to spell out the something that was black and white for the pat two years !
We have a list of about 125 of the 150 mmos that are F2P and use trickery !.....Are you expecting Everquest Next to be different ?.... Some kind of magical formula that no one used yet. One that is really truly in the players favor !
I could sit here and list 40 of them and give details, DEEP DETAILS of cash shop trickery. I say 40 instead of 125 because I would only talk about the popular ones, big name ones !
But I'm not !!!!!....If you have not caught on to the trickery, you have not been playing mmos for the past two years, or you have a credit card problem and should seek counseling unless your rich.
Trickery?
What trickery?
where in any game do they sell you 1 "potion of instawin and you receive 1 "potion of trickery" instead??
Unless you are talking about gambling lockboxes, which still pay out what they advertise. So no trickery.
Unless you are talking about founder packs for games that did not meet you preconcived notions of how good it would be. But still getting everything in said founders pack. Still no trickery that I can see.
So what exactly do you mean by "cash shop trickery?"
Please spell it out in "black and white."
Constantly amazes me how cheap people are.
This whole thread is nothing but a troll made by someone who has no knowledge about what they are talking about.
Originally posted by jerlot65 Hate to brst your bubble but every MMO that gets released will be either buy a copy or free to play. And with either instance tehre will be a cash shop of some sort.
Well, your right and I'm not happy about it.
HOWEVER,
Final Fantasy 14 is re releasing it's mmo. So far its becoming a pre release hit. Features are looked at with both positive and negative BUT the best feature of all is Sub Based ( $13 a month ) all will be on a level playing field. No tricks, just relax and play until you decide if you would like to call it home, where money is not a trick.
If that mmo is liked.........YOU CAN CALL IT HOME FOR YEARS because of the payment method. When was the last time you had a choice like that ?
I'm definitely NOT a Final Fantasy fan, but I'm looking deeper, because it's not about trickery !
I think you are a bit misleading or rather not including the other aspect of FF. With final fantasy they have 2 install bases, the japanese and the European/American base so in that respect FF does not have to go free to play because they can sustain themselves on the revenue of the Japanese market alone. This was how FF11 was as well.
I agree with you however but only to a point. Trickery I think is on both fronts whether you are dealing with subscription based MMO's or Free to play or some variation of the two. Also you have to think in a broader aspect about how these companies need to make money in order to operate.
We I think as a community need to first decide across the board what is free to play. I saw one person's analogy in terms of aesthetic pieces that do nothing but make your character look different. I personally don't think that is pay to win or whatever. However It should be obtainable in game as well...or rather a variation of it perhaps.
Rift is a good example of a free to play model. It was subscription based however the player population declined and so it went free to play. Now OP what would you have Rift do...do not go Free to play and just decline and decline until they have to close their doors. We as gamers are at a critical moment in gaming history as pretty much all MMO's going forward will be this model as it makes more sense. However nickel and diming someone is not the way to go. Activision comes to mind in this respect. Rift on the other hand...I seriously did not have to spend any money in that game. However I did because I actually wanted some things I thought were cool. However it in no way made me a better player, better stats then those around me or anything. Most of the mounts they sell, you can get in game via traditional methods.
Idk I think perhaps you should wait on Ever quest to actually see what payment models they bring forward as well as how they will be implemented before jumping the gun. I can see you are passionate about it however but I think after today you will know whether or not you can respect their business decision.
I agree with op. I hate F2P. The notion of f2p is a blatant deceiving lie. As its not free to play at all.
As much as I love EQ and it gave me great memories and I've not been so excited about an MMO since lord of rings .
But seriously I will not touch this game if it has a milking cash shop. The idea of playing not knowing what you will have to purchase to continue playing is completly off putting.
This f2p model will not allow the game to be around for years and years and no matter what content they start the game off with I will not be investing large amounts of my time for something that is a quick grab n go game.
Don't do this smedley. You said yourself the f2p model will be dead in three years.
I agree with you slightly,
however free to play is not always bad. Rift is a perfect example of how free to play should work. You can play that game all the way to cap. Not buying a thing on the store. I would suggest you see their free to play model before making statements like this. Though I do understand your point just can't agree with blanket statements.
Time to get over it and move on people, or quite playing the genre. It's never going to go back to subscription models for anything going forward, unless you just want to stick with FFXIV: ARR. I don't like it much either, but seriously, move on, deal with it, or stick to single player games from now on.
I would normally be very excited about another Everquest, I'll not go into detail about my past play log. And this has nothing to do with Old school.
WE ALREADY KNOW THAT DEVELOPERS NEED TO MAKE MONEY...This does not have to be discussed in any way shape or form. We all know operating cost are up and production cost are high. We all know every business would like to make a large profit.
BUT, this game is designed to nickel and dime you one way or another from the start. Developers and marketing are planing on squeezing extra money from you in an unexpecting way. Their will be tricks and deceitful ways of starving the player in several aspics of your mmo experience with this game.
If you play an mmo like this for the long haul, you know you will need most everything or be gimped and not wanted by other groups that call this home.
You will not know who has what ! Others around you will have more or less in one way or another. Some will try and play totally free, others will get Dads credit cards and rack up hundreds of dollars. Some will say, " I'll be reasonable and smart about what I pay for, I'll look for deals and sales "....Should you have to be reasonable ?.....Should you have to be cautious of trickery ?...Are you OK with a game like this, even if you spend smart ?.......Are you expecting to play totally free as long as you can ?
Features, Fun, Graphics, content and what ever else they give the player.....This payment model is designed for the compulsive. The past tells us that 75% of the population of a F2P mmo will be gone in the first 30 days, no matter how good the game is.
Well, Usually those who pay a sub will get more xp gain and other rewards like a bigger inventory, ect. If a game is that good, I would pay to progress quiker (and pwn you).
If the cash shop has pay to win items that make you more powerful, then I would probably spend some money.(to pwn you)
I would do it with my own credit card, and be fine with it, If i could be Better than the F2P crowd.
I would do it TO PWN YOU!
Played:SWG(pre NGE/CU sucked)Yep its true, anyone who quit SWG because of the NGE/CU missed out on a much better combat system. DCUO, Fallen Earth, STO, The Secret World. Battlefield series. Planetside 2. Still playing SWG.
I'm hoping EQ offers a premium-only server or at least some sort of authentication for login.
I'm actually very pleased with SOE's F2P model, I just don't feel like dealing with the millions of chinese gold sellers, hackers, and children that F2P brings to the table.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
BUT, this game is designed to nickel and dime you one way or another from the start.
Is it now? And you'd know that how exactly?
For people like you ?.....I say, shut up !
Ok, I guess I have to spell out the something that was black and white for the pat two years !
We have a list of about 125 of the 150 mmos that are F2P and use trickery !.....Are you expecting Everquest Next to be different ?.... Some kind of magical formula that no one used yet. One that is really truly in the players favor !
I could sit here and list 40 of them and give details, DEEP DETAILS of cash shop trickery. I say 40 instead of 125 because I would only talk about the popular ones, big name ones !
But I'm not !!!!!....If you have not caught on to the trickery, you have not been playing mmos for the past two years, or you have a credit card problem and should seek counseling unless your rich.
I think you should do yourself a favor and check out the EQ, EQ2, and Vanguard Cash Shop models to see for yourself so you can stop spouting nonsense.
You didn't make this thread to critique their current (and fair) tiered system. You came here to over-generalize (without examples) the multitude of other FTP games and make sensationalist posts. There isn't any base to your concerns in regards to how SOE manages their system.
If you'd actually played EQ2 or EQ, experienced their FTP, then came back here with something to say then you might have some credibility. But, you haven't, and its just a lot of tripe spilling out.
If you don't want to play EQN, don't. However, coming here to spread fiction when you have no intention of playing the game makes you, hmm.. what is that word? Something under a bridge?
By saying "yes I know that" are you implying that you left it out because it weakened you point?
Nope, it was implied, granted I should have written it too. My bad.
So it is required now to have 60 skill slots to play endgame PvE or PvP when at the most you use 20 skills max in PvP and less in Endgame PvE when you have at most a 8 skill rotation? ( On a side note: the price of a account wide quickbar unlock on the GTN was cheap enough to purchase by just doing around 30-45 minutes of daily quests. )
I played the game for 6+ months, I know exactly what amount of quickslots you need. At 50, on a shadow tank, I was using every single available quickslot of all 6 bars. Your "I skill rotation" is a simplistic view which doesn't reflect reality at all.
Neither does your "just do 30 to 45 minutes of dailies" reflect reality. Yeah, you can do it, but how long will the repetitive grind be before you got everything you need to play like before the move to F2P? Come on.
I'm still not seeing how paying $60-$40 for GW2 to be able to play plus a cash shop is inherently better than a game where you can get everything just by playing. ( Granted one must pay real cash for Makab )
I'd rather shell out $40 to $60 initially knowing I won't have to buy anything else in the cash shop to play the game at top efficiency if I don't want to. Not to mention GW2 patches in new content every two weeks now which doesn't cost a cent.
EQ2 and Vanguard also have very decent cash shops which you don't need to play the game (didn't try EQ1 lately so I don't know about that one). PS2's cash shop is ok too.
Some cash shops (SW:TOR, LOTRO) are build to force players to buy if they want to play the game. Others are build to give them options which aren't mandatory to play the game, but which are just "nice to have" without changing gameplay. The first are examples of bad cash shops (for the player), and the second the good ones.
Six months when?
The first 6 months when the game was NOT free to play? Before they revamped skills?
Here is the current ( as of patch 2.1.1 ) skill list for Saberstaff based tanks.
Red is Sith, blue is Jedi. Assassinate = Spinning Strike Dark Charge = Combat Technique Dark Ward = Kinetic Ward Discharge = Force Breach Force Lightning = Telekinetic Throw Force Shroud = Resilience Lacerate = Whirling Blow Overcharge Saber = Battle Readiness Recklessness = Force Potency Shock = Project Thrash = Double Strike Wither = Slow Time Electrocute = Force Stun Jolt = Mind Snap Overload = Force Wave Unbreakable Will = Force of Will Whirlwind = Force Lift Crushing Darkness = Mind Crush Maul = Shadow Strike Mind Trap = Mind Maze
So exactly where did you get the other 21 skills that you used "all the time?"
So I do believe it is your view of filling your bars with 60+ skills that you used all the time that does not reflect reality.
Secondly:
4 Days.
It took me 4 days grinding out dailies on my 3 max level characters to aquire all the unlocks I wanted/needed.
these where:
Quickbar slots (account) = 1 at 50k
Character unlocks = 6 at 75k-85k a piece.
Crew skill unlock (account) = 1 100k
Inventory unlocks (account) = 7 300k total
Cargo hold (account) = 2 150k total
Artifact gear unlock (account) 350k total
everything else is fluff and is not required to "play the game"
Also in the interest of full discloser I was subbed at the time of those 4 days but dropped to preferred afterwards. I also had 20k credits when I started doing dalies with the express interest of grinding out the credits to purchase these unlocks.
So grated it would take true free to play players longer than 4 days to get what they need.
Thirdly:
"I'd rather shell out $40 to $60 initially knowing I won't have to buy anything else in the cash shop to play the game at top efficiency if I don't want to."
Perhaps you misunderstood or just plain ignored the fact I stated previously that one DOES NOT NEED TO SPEND ANY MONEY to play SWTOR at end game with "top efficiency."
So again, how is spending $40-60 to just be able to play a game inherently better/ less evil than one where a person can get everything and not spend cash if they put the time in?
Most people will probably choose the sub option if this game is as groundbreaking as they say and you get free station cash every month as well to by fluffies with..
Just look at the PS2 shop and see really how cool Sony is about their cash shop offerings.
Most people will probably choose the sub option if this game is as groundbreaking as they say and you get free station cash every month as well to by fluffies with..
Just look at the PS2 shop and see really how cool Sony is about their cash shop offerings.
I am hoping it is included in the all access pass package.
SWTOR Referral Bonus! Referral link 7 day subscriber level access Returning players get 1 free server transfer
Originally posted by sayuu So I do believe it is your view of filling your bars with 60+ skills that you used all the time that does not reflect reality
When people make up things just to be right, you know it's time to stop answering their posts. I checked the game again after it went "free to play", so you can't fool me so easily.
But whatever, discussion over on my side.
Right, because I faked the link to Torhead database too. . .
I thought you and I where having a open discussion about why people consider GW2 cash shop better than SWTOR when they are 99% the same. . .
Concerning cash shops, in the last years, we've seen both the best (e.g. GW2, only selling cosmetics, fluff and non-essential items, which you can all also buy with in game gold) and the worse (e.g. SW:TOR going up to sell you essential UI elements like quickslot bars).
So I'm willing to see what SoE plans exactly for this one before I cry foul. If they only sell fluff beside the usual additional bank slots and character slots, I have no problems with that.
*Cough* lockboxes and boosts *cough* but yeah the boosts can be argued, the lockboxes can not. Games like Tera or Aion have much better F2P cash shop options AND they don't have box price. But yeah... sorry just had to comment since things like lockboxers bother me, not just in GW2 but other games, heck Tera I believe has it as well in some form. Not the worst model but it still having the cash shop raking in WITH a box price which makes it hard to argue its a good cash shop.
I posted this in the thread about the Revival MMO Announcement. To the extents EQ:N focuses on the Player Economy and Crafting, I think the overall concerns also apply to EQN.
Mt/RMT in a player driven economy? Talk about P2W! There is no way to avoid that. The second this game releases, the wealthiest players will be the ones buying gold or whatever tradeables are for sale in the shop. Those 1st days will be crucial to the gold buyer, it will set them up in game with opportunities that will not be available to players later, even ones that spend more money. Plus there is the whole Cash Shop driven RNG mechanics to deal with. Sorry but a Cash Shop in the game means Publisher controlled economy. Sandbox games have a player driven economy. These two are diametrrically opposed. It's just not going to work. EQ:N and The Repopulation will most likely face the exact same issue.
The idea of playing not knowing what you will have to purchase to continue playing is completly off putting.
Exactly this. I wasn't in love with GW2 anyway, but the day I realized the only way to increase inventory space is to pay for it, I stopped playing. If I'm paying for something, I want to know up front what it is going to cost me and what I'm going to get.
I can almost guarantee that there will be a sub option for those of us who like the game enough, and with said sub, comes perks...just look at Planetside 2, a fully playable F2P game, but people who pay get bonuses
Originally posted by Zadawn Yes,it is kind of funny that people here are actually hyped for a F2P game.I for one will not play exclusively because of the cash shop.
I too am really, really surprised there is SO much hype about a F2P game, with an in game mall, and with Player Studio - which is RMT.
Umm.. what happened to all the hate for F2P, item malls, and RMT?
Apparently Smed - the guy who defended ruining SWG for years - is A OK to do these things ya'll supposedly hate?
Many state that selling cosmetics or the like is not pay to win.That is not true in its entirety. Depending on what "win" means to you it can actually be p2w. Many people play mmorpgs for many different reasons. Maybe "WIN" to me means looking good and unique. Once they sell stuff that improve your character's looks and can't be aquired from playing the game and only by paying it turns into pay 2 win in this case.
My preference is and always has been the pay to play subscription model. $15 a month ($12 if subscribed for a year) and you got everything the game had to offer, same as everyone else. Not many hobbies out there that can give you so many hours of enjoyment for that price and still people complain about it.
I agree with you about cash shops, in a way. I don't view cosmetics as winning anything but I do miss the old RPG way of progression. I remember playing my cleric in EQ1. I started off finding leather armor. I did a few quests out of Kaladim for my first pieces of heavy armor around level 11, which actually took 2-3 days to get to. I didn't get my first piece of bronze plate mail until I was in the mid 20s, which took me a couple weeks to achieve. By level 30 I spent every last platinum I had to purchase a full suit of fine steel plate mail from a friend who worked hard on blacksmithing. I was so proud of that armor. I felt that I had earned it and others noticed too because at the time, many were still in leather. Now days people can look epic day 1. I don't have any problem with it, it doesn't affect me in any way ,but still I liked the old way better.
Most people will probably choose the sub option if this game is as groundbreaking as they say and you get free station cash every month as well to by fluffies with..
Just look at the PS2 shop and see really how cool Sony is about their cash shop offerings.
I always found the sub option for EQ2 to be very worth the $15 a month. Having everything unlocked just saves the hassle. The games themselves are also very high quality with a ton of depth, thus well worth my time and money. EQ FTP isn't even in the same ballpark compared to the assortment of FTP trash out there.
Comments
FF14
$30
$13 a month sub
I'm not a FF fan but I hope to become one !
Trickery?
What trickery?
where in any game do they sell you 1 "potion of instawin and you receive 1 "potion of trickery" instead??
Unless you are talking about gambling lockboxes, which still pay out what they advertise. So no trickery.
Unless you are talking about founder packs for games that did not meet you preconcived notions of how good it would be. But still getting everything in said founders pack. Still no trickery that I can see.
So what exactly do you mean by "cash shop trickery?"
Please spell it out in "black and white."
Edit:
P.S. I've played many F2P MMO's over the last two years and not once have I spent more than $15 a month. I attribute that to a little thing that has gone out of style called self control. . .
Is it now? And you'd know that how exactly?
For people like you ?.....I say, shut up !
Ok, I guess I have to spell out the something that was black and white for the pat two years !
We have a list of about 125 of the 150 mmos that are F2P and use trickery !.....Are you expecting Everquest Next to be different ?.... Some kind of magical formula that no one used yet. One that is really truly in the players favor !
I could sit here and list 40 of them and give details, DEEP DETAILS of cash shop trickery. I say 40 instead of 125 because I would only talk about the popular ones, big name ones !
But I'm not !!!!!....If you have not caught on to the trickery, you have not been playing mmos for the past two years, or you have a credit card problem and should seek counseling unless your rich.
Trickery?
What trickery?
where in any game do they sell you 1 "potion of instawin and you receive 1 "potion of trickery" instead??
Unless you are talking about gambling lockboxes, which still pay out what they advertise. So no trickery.
Unless you are talking about founder packs for games that did not meet you preconcived notions of how good it would be. But still getting everything in said founders pack. Still no trickery that I can see.
So what exactly do you mean by "cash shop trickery?"
Please spell it out in "black and white."
Constantly amazes me how cheap people are.This whole thread is nothing but a troll made by someone who has no knowledge about what they are talking about.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I think you are a bit misleading or rather not including the other aspect of FF. With final fantasy they have 2 install bases, the japanese and the European/American base so in that respect FF does not have to go free to play because they can sustain themselves on the revenue of the Japanese market alone. This was how FF11 was as well.
I agree with you however but only to a point. Trickery I think is on both fronts whether you are dealing with subscription based MMO's or Free to play or some variation of the two. Also you have to think in a broader aspect about how these companies need to make money in order to operate.
We I think as a community need to first decide across the board what is free to play. I saw one person's analogy in terms of aesthetic pieces that do nothing but make your character look different. I personally don't think that is pay to win or whatever. However It should be obtainable in game as well...or rather a variation of it perhaps.
Rift is a good example of a free to play model. It was subscription based however the player population declined and so it went free to play. Now OP what would you have Rift do...do not go Free to play and just decline and decline until they have to close their doors. We as gamers are at a critical moment in gaming history as pretty much all MMO's going forward will be this model as it makes more sense. However nickel and diming someone is not the way to go. Activision comes to mind in this respect. Rift on the other hand...I seriously did not have to spend any money in that game. However I did because I actually wanted some things I thought were cool. However it in no way made me a better player, better stats then those around me or anything. Most of the mounts they sell, you can get in game via traditional methods.
Idk I think perhaps you should wait on Ever quest to actually see what payment models they bring forward as well as how they will be implemented before jumping the gun. I can see you are passionate about it however but I think after today you will know whether or not you can respect their business decision.
I agree with you slightly,
however free to play is not always bad. Rift is a perfect example of how free to play should work. You can play that game all the way to cap. Not buying a thing on the store. I would suggest you see their free to play model before making statements like this. Though I do understand your point just can't agree with blanket statements.
To this date there's no F2P-title that is really free to play, especially not when talking about competitive gameplay like PvP or endgame-raiding.
For the above reason, a F2P-title is nothing else than Pay2Win, if you're interested in competitive gameplay.
For the above reasons, I'll never play a F2P-title, as I'm interested in competitive gameplay.
Seriously??? Reading comprehension FTW.
I have to ask
1. what do you term as free to play?
2. By your standards is Rift a free to play game?
Well, Usually those who pay a sub will get more xp gain and other rewards like a bigger inventory, ect. If a game is that good, I would pay to progress quiker (and pwn you).
If the cash shop has pay to win items that make you more powerful, then I would probably spend some money.(to pwn you)
I would do it with my own credit card, and be fine with it, If i could be Better than the F2P crowd.
I would do it TO PWN YOU!
Played:SWG(pre NGE/CU sucked)Yep its true, anyone who quit SWG because of the NGE/CU missed out on a much better combat system. DCUO, Fallen Earth, STO, The Secret World. Battlefield series. Planetside 2. Still playing SWG.
I'm hoping EQ offers a premium-only server or at least some sort of authentication for login.
I'm actually very pleased with SOE's F2P model, I just don't feel like dealing with the millions of chinese gold sellers, hackers, and children that F2P brings to the table.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
Great start to a healthy debate! You don't agree with me, shut your mouth! lol
I think you should do yourself a favor and check out the EQ, EQ2, and Vanguard Cash Shop models to see for yourself so you can stop spouting nonsense.
You didn't make this thread to critique their current (and fair) tiered system. You came here to over-generalize (without examples) the multitude of other FTP games and make sensationalist posts. There isn't any base to your concerns in regards to how SOE manages their system.
If you'd actually played EQ2 or EQ, experienced their FTP, then came back here with something to say then you might have some credibility. But, you haven't, and its just a lot of tripe spilling out.
If you don't want to play EQN, don't. However, coming here to spread fiction when you have no intention of playing the game makes you, hmm.. what is that word? Something under a bridge?
Six months when?
The first 6 months when the game was NOT free to play? Before they revamped skills?
Here is the current ( as of patch 2.1.1 ) skill list for Saberstaff based tanks.
Red is Sith, blue is Jedi.
Assassinate = Spinning Strike
Dark Charge = Combat Technique
Dark Ward = Kinetic Ward
Discharge = Force Breach
Force Lightning = Telekinetic Throw
Force Shroud = Resilience
Lacerate = Whirling Blow
Overcharge Saber = Battle Readiness
Recklessness = Force Potency
Shock = Project
Thrash = Double Strike
Wither = Slow Time
Electrocute = Force Stun
Jolt = Mind Snap
Overload = Force Wave
Unbreakable Will = Force of Will
Whirlwind = Force Lift
Crushing Darkness = Mind Crush
Maul = Shadow Strike
Mind Trap = Mind Maze
A lot less than 50.
Also going by Torhead SWTOR database http://www.torhead.com/abilities/advclass/200/class/2/level/1-50 there are a total of 29 skills for saberstaff tanks. This includes all base class skills as well.
So exactly where did you get the other 21 skills that you used "all the time?"
So I do believe it is your view of filling your bars with 60+ skills that you used all the time that does not reflect reality.
Secondly:
4 Days.
It took me 4 days grinding out dailies on my 3 max level characters to aquire all the unlocks I wanted/needed.
these where:
Quickbar slots (account) = 1 at 50k
Character unlocks = 6 at 75k-85k a piece.
Crew skill unlock (account) = 1 100k
Inventory unlocks (account) = 7 300k total
Cargo hold (account) = 2 150k total
Artifact gear unlock (account) 350k total
everything else is fluff and is not required to "play the game"
Also in the interest of full discloser I was subbed at the time of those 4 days but dropped to preferred afterwards. I also had 20k credits when I started doing dalies with the express interest of grinding out the credits to purchase these unlocks.
So grated it would take true free to play players longer than 4 days to get what they need.
Thirdly:
"I'd rather shell out $40 to $60 initially knowing I won't have to buy anything else in the cash shop to play the game at top efficiency if I don't want to."
Perhaps you misunderstood or just plain ignored the fact I stated previously that one DOES NOT NEED TO SPEND ANY MONEY to play SWTOR at end game with "top efficiency."
So again, how is spending $40-60 to just be able to play a game inherently better/ less evil than one where a person can get everything and not spend cash if they put the time in?
Most people will probably choose the sub option if this game is as groundbreaking as they say and you get free station cash every month as well to by fluffies with..
Just look at the PS2 shop and see really how cool Sony is about their cash shop offerings.
Life IS Feudal
I am hoping it is included in the all access pass package.
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Right, because I faked the link to Torhead database too. . .
I thought you and I where having a open discussion about why people consider GW2 cash shop better than SWTOR when they are 99% the same. . .
But whateves mate.
*Cough* lockboxes and boosts *cough* but yeah the boosts can be argued, the lockboxes can not. Games like Tera or Aion have much better F2P cash shop options AND they don't have box price. But yeah... sorry just had to comment since things like lockboxers bother me, not just in GW2 but other games, heck Tera I believe has it as well in some form. Not the worst model but it still having the cash shop raking in WITH a box price which makes it hard to argue its a good cash shop.
I posted this in the thread about the Revival MMO Announcement. To the extents EQ:N focuses on the Player Economy and Crafting, I think the overall concerns also apply to EQN.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5868170
Exactly this. I wasn't in love with GW2 anyway, but the day I realized the only way to increase inventory space is to pay for it, I stopped playing. If I'm paying for something, I want to know up front what it is going to cost me and what I'm going to get.
I too am really, really surprised there is SO much hype about a F2P game, with an in game mall, and with Player Studio - which is RMT.
Umm.. what happened to all the hate for F2P, item malls, and RMT?
Apparently Smed - the guy who defended ruining SWG for years - is A OK to do these things ya'll supposedly hate?
My preference is and always has been the pay to play subscription model. $15 a month ($12 if subscribed for a year) and you got everything the game had to offer, same as everyone else. Not many hobbies out there that can give you so many hours of enjoyment for that price and still people complain about it.
I agree with you about cash shops, in a way. I don't view cosmetics as winning anything but I do miss the old RPG way of progression. I remember playing my cleric in EQ1. I started off finding leather armor. I did a few quests out of Kaladim for my first pieces of heavy armor around level 11, which actually took 2-3 days to get to. I didn't get my first piece of bronze plate mail until I was in the mid 20s, which took me a couple weeks to achieve. By level 30 I spent every last platinum I had to purchase a full suit of fine steel plate mail from a friend who worked hard on blacksmithing. I was so proud of that armor. I felt that I had earned it and others noticed too because at the time, many were still in leather. Now days people can look epic day 1. I don't have any problem with it, it doesn't affect me in any way ,but still I liked the old way better.
I always found the sub option for EQ2 to be very worth the $15 a month. Having everything unlocked just saves the hassle. The games themselves are also very high quality with a ton of depth, thus well worth my time and money. EQ FTP isn't even in the same ballpark compared to the assortment of FTP trash out there.