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Sandbox?

DiamahtDiamaht Member Posts: 6
in EverQuest Next

The graphic look good, player movement is cool, lengthy dynamic events and the AI sound great. 

That being said, where is the sandbox?  Mind you I'm asking about EQNext not Landmark.  When this game launches what will I be building?  All this about largest sandbox and nothing about that covered. 

The features covered in this presentation were for GW2.  Great game, don't get me wrong, but where is the discussion about player structures, housing, guild property etc. ?  That's what a sandbox is.  Galaxies and EVE being examples.

It's nice that they will be allowing players to help design the game, but what about after.

With the info we have so far:  EQ Landmark is a sandbox, EQ Next is not

 

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Comments

  • giga1000giga1000 Member Posts: 98
    Originally posted by Diamaht

    The graphic look good, player movement is cool, lengthy dynamic events and the AI sound great. 

    That being said, where is the sandbox?  Mind you I'm asking about EQNext not Landmark.  When this game launches what will I be building?  All this about largest sandbox and nothing about that covered. 

    The features covered in this presentation were for GW2.  Great game, don't get me wrong, but where is the discussion about player structures, housing, guild property etc. ?  That's what a sandbox is.  Galaxies and EVE being examples.

    It's nice that they will be allowing players to help design the game, but what about after.

    With the info we have so far:  EQ Landmark is a sandbox, EQ Next is not

     

    Lol WTH are you talking about EQlandmark is based off EQNEXT. Its a sandbox through and through. Tomorrow you will hear about crafting and classes.

  • BenediktBenedikt Member UncommonPosts: 1,406
    from what they said i got sense that there will be 2 types of building - world progress one (rally) and personal one, where you buy a peace of land and there you can build whatever you want
  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob Member UncommonPosts: 880

    Destroying and building the world seem like core sandbox features to me.

     

    Also it's not like once Landmark is done, "Okay, that's it!  No more making anything else again!"  It's just their way of getting things rolling.

  • mehoronmehoron Member Posts: 146

    No levels:

    There are no levels in EQN, all of your progression will come from exploring the world, unlocking classes and experimenting with weapons and spells. 

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686

    Very much what i expected it to be...

     

    I told you all it would be a sandpark, with the best of a Sandbox and a themepark combined...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

     I am not really sure how to call what we heard so far.

    Players permanently changing the server with their action sure isn't a themepark but it doesn't sound exactly like a sandbox either so far.

    Maybe we need a new word for this...

  • DiamahtDiamaht Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by giga1000
    Originally posted by Diamaht

    The graphic look good, player movement is cool, lengthy dynamic events and the AI sound great. 

    That being said, where is the sandbox?  Mind you I'm asking about EQNext not Landmark.  When this game launches what will I be building?  All this about largest sandbox and nothing about that covered. 

    The features covered in this presentation were for GW2.  Great game, don't get me wrong, but where is the discussion about player structures, housing, guild property etc. ?  That's what a sandbox is.  Galaxies and EVE being examples.

    It's nice that they will be allowing players to help design the game, but what about after.

    With the info we have so far:  EQ Landmark is a sandbox, EQ Next is not

     

    Lol WTH are you talking about EQlandmark is based off EQNEXT. Its a sandbox through and through. Tomorrow you will hear about crafting and classes.

    Nice aggressive answer..

    What they said is that you can build stuff in Landmark.  They said nothing about NEXT other than roll calls

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Very much what i expected it to be...

    I told you all it would be a sandpark, with the best of a Sandbox and a themepark combined...

    The features that got my interest really havn't existed in either type of game so far so I don't think sandpark works either.

    Maybe something like "Living world" would work though since it seems that servers could go in very different directions based on the players and it kinda been a MMO buzzword for long even if no game really tried to make it.

  • KyllienKyllien Member UncommonPosts: 315

    He did mention building stuff when he talked about the Player Studio.  Remember, one guys builds a tower, another guy builds a castle with those towers ...

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Diamaht

    Nice aggressive answer..

    What they said is that you can build stuff in Landmark.  They said nothing about NEXT other than roll calls

    We do need more info, maybe we should discuss this sunday evening instead?

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    Gotta have pvp, cause you know what Kerran are gonna do in your sandbox if they get a chance.
  • erodaeroda Member Posts: 6
    Day 1, lets see what happens in 4 - 5 months from now when landmark is out and we know alot more about the game. the key point is will the landmark tools make it over to EQN will i be able to make and craft my own stuff like landmark obviously a little more restricted as to where i can place what i create as so it doesnt break the server ie building a giant penis sculpture in the middle of a city etc 
  • CingeCinge Member Posts: 120
    Originally posted by Justsomenoob

    Destroying and building the world seem like core sandbox features to me.

     

    Also it's not like once Landmark is done, "Okay, that's it!  No more making anything else again!"  It's just their way of getting things rolling.

     

    The world also heals itself every 5 minutes.

  • NadiliNadili Member Posts: 197

    Early days my friend.

    What we were shown today was the visions for what they are doing nothing about actually game systems.  Now they will do the media blitz campaigns.  You can't tell it all at once what would keep the hype train moving.

    image
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member Posts: 6

    Originally posted by Justsomenoob

    Destroying and building the world seem like core sandbox features to me.

     

    Also it's not like once Landmark is done, "Okay, that's it!  No more making anything else again!"  It's just their way of getting things rolling.

     

    Hopefully not, but don't assume it until it's said otherwise

     

    Originally posted by Kyllien

    He did mention building stuff when he talked about the Player Studio.  Remember, one guys builds a tower, another guy builds a castle with those towers ...

    He only mentioned building stuff in Landmark, that's where player studio will be, and the tower building.

    I'm not expecting mine craft style game-play in EQNext, that would get out of control.  But sandbox means you claim a piece of the game-world for your own (or more common your guild does this) but so far that has simply not been announced.

    @Loke666 and Nadili:  You may be right, maybe we just don't have all the info yet.  I'm really hoping to be proven wrong about this...

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Isn't the sandbox the Fact that you can build on the world and change it. Dig a hole here and build a castle or whatever in the game world like Minecraft. You create the world. Sounds sandbox to me,

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • dandurindandurin Member UncommonPosts: 498

    It's interesting to me that the FAQ actually calls Landmark itself a sandbox "game".  

     

    From the FAQ:

     

    IWhat are the core features of the game?

     

    • Build Anything — Create and build anything you can imagine. With Landmark's state of the art tools, you have unprecedented control over your creations. A range of materials with realistic physics means how you build makes a difference.
    • Explore — Explore massive Landmark worlds and claim territory, building materials and much more. Delve deep into the earth and discover procedurally—generated adventures that will never be the same twice!
    • Make Your Mark — The best buildings players create will become part of Norrath — the EverQuest Next world — FOREVER! We'll run exclusive contests to design parts of the world AND our designers will keep an eye out for the coolest fortresses, castles, caves, treehouses, fireplaces – anything awesome that fits within the world of Norrath.
    • Collect — The rarest resources, objects, gear, character customizations and secrets are scattered across the worlds of Landmark! Can you find everything?
    • Earn Money — Buy and sell items in Player Studio, SOE's marketplace for player-created goods. Design, create and sell items and earn real world cash on every purchase! Click here for more details on Player Studio.

     

    Dare I say Landmark itself could be of the scope and scale of Minecraft and Wurm Online?

  • FourplayFourplay Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Originally posted by Loke666

     I am not really sure how to call what we heard so far.

    Players permanently changing the server with their action sure isn't a themepark but it doesn't sound exactly like a sandbox either so far.

    Maybe we need a new word for this...

    There is already a word for this. You haven't seen it in many mmos because devs are afraid to make anything permanently usually.

    The word is Emergent gameplay. And it's what I wanted from mmos since I first started playing mmos.

  • dandurindandurin Member UncommonPosts: 498
    Originally posted by Loke666

     I am not really sure how to call what we heard so far.

    Players permanently changing the server with their action sure isn't a themepark but it doesn't sound exactly like a sandbox either so far.

    Maybe we need a new word for this...

    It's definitely a sandbox feature.

     

    The more sandbox features a game has, the more of a sandbox it is.

     

    the boundary line for when a  game "becomes a sandbox" is vague.

  • FourplayFourplay Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Originally posted by dandurin
    Originally posted by Loke666

     I am not really sure how to call what we heard so far.

    Players permanently changing the server with their action sure isn't a themepark but it doesn't sound exactly like a sandbox either so far.

    Maybe we need a new word for this...

    It's definitely a sandbox feature.

     

    The more sandbox features a game has, the more of a sandbox it is.

     

    the boundary line for when a  game "becomes a sandbox" is vague.

    I saw EQ next does have sandbox features. But when they speak about permanence and user change. That is called emergent gameplay. I liked XI better than EQ. I don't really like static quests hubs in any form. But I can say that if implementation is done well. EQ next has my panties wet and I'm sold.

  • dandurindandurin Member UncommonPosts: 498
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by Loke666

     I am not really sure how to call what we heard so far.

    Players permanently changing the server with their action sure isn't a themepark but it doesn't sound exactly like a sandbox either so far.

    Maybe we need a new word for this...

    There is already a word for this. You haven't seen it in many mmos because devs are afraid to make anything permanently usually.

    The word is Emergent gameplay. And it's what I wanted from mmos since I first started playing mmos.

    That's not what emergent gameplay is.

     

    Emergent gameplay is simply players divising goals and objectives not spelled out by the developers.  Eg, a player-run crafting tournament, or players ganging up to fight off a procedurally generated tribe of monsters whose AI has led them too close to town.  Or in EQ a monk training another group of players and feign deathing.

     

    It doesn't have to have anything to do with permanent change.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by mehoron

    No levels:

    There are no levels in EQN, all of your progression will come from exploring the world, unlocking classes and experimenting with weapons and spells. 

    There will be levels, there are always levels, they will just be called something else and broken apart into different mechanics.

    My concern for all these classes, and the mixing and matching of abilities looks like it would be tough to balance around. I want to see that the different abilities don't contain huge overlaps and become generic and standard from class to class. Where all the classes have their nuke and their AoE etc etc.

  • FourplayFourplay Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Originally posted by dandurin
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by Loke666

     I am not really sure how to call what we heard so far.

    Players permanently changing the server with their action sure isn't a themepark but it doesn't sound exactly like a sandbox either so far.

    Maybe we need a new word for this...

    There is already a word for this. You haven't seen it in many mmos because devs are afraid to make anything permanently usually.

    The word is Emergent gameplay. And it's what I wanted from mmos since I first started playing mmos.

    That's not what emergent gameplay is.

     

    Emergent gameplay is simply players divising goals and objectives not spelled out by the developers.  Eg, a player-run crafting tournament, or players ganging up to fight off a procedurally generated tribe of monsters whose AI has led them too close to town.  Or in EQ a monk training another group of players and feign deathing.

     

    It doesn't have to have anything to do with permanent change.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay

     

    You are wrong, stop helping the players get confused on what sandbox is. You are describing what a sandbox is.

    Emergent gameplay is when everything you do affects a world simulation. George even calls it out himself referring to it as emergent AI on a section. Landmark is sandbox.

  • dandurindandurin Member UncommonPosts: 498
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by mehoron

    No levels:

    There are no levels in EQN, all of your progression will come from exploring the world, unlocking classes and experimenting with weapons and spells. 

    There will be levels, there are always levels, they will just be called something else and broken apart into different mechanics.

    My concern for all these classes, and the mixing and matching of abilities looks like it would be tough to balance around. I want to see that the different abilities don't contain huge overlaps and become generic and standard from class to class. Where all the classes have their nuke and their AoE etc etc.

    It's not clear you actually "power up" in this game, from Bill Murphy's article, you may simply gain versatility as you adventure, rather than scale up your hit points and dps.

     

    The advantage of that kind of system is that you never "outlevel" the content.  An Orc raid will always be a challenge, without any artificial level scaling tech.

  • dandurindandurin Member UncommonPosts: 498
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by dandurin
    Originally posted by Fourplay
    Originally posted by Loke666

     I am not really sure how to call what we heard so far.

    Players permanently changing the server with their action sure isn't a themepark but it doesn't sound exactly like a sandbox either so far.

    Maybe we need a new word for this...

    There is already a word for this. You haven't seen it in many mmos because devs are afraid to make anything permanently usually.

    The word is Emergent gameplay. And it's what I wanted from mmos since I first started playing mmos.

    That's not what emergent gameplay is.

     

    Emergent gameplay is simply players divising goals and objectives not spelled out by the developers.  Eg, a player-run crafting tournament, or players ganging up to fight off a procedurally generated tribe of monsters whose AI has led them too close to town.  Or in EQ a monk training another group of players and feign deathing.

     

    It doesn't have to have anything to do with permanent change.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay

     

    You are wrong, stop helping the players get confused on what sandbox is. You are describing what a sandbox is.

    Emergent gameplay is when everything you do affects a world simulation. George even calls it out himself referring to it as emergent AI on a section. Landmark is sandbox.

     

    Umm, the term "emergent gameplay" has been around for decades and your own link shows your definition is wrong.

     

    Emergent gameplay
    refers to complex situations in video games, board games, or table top role-playing games that emerge from the interaction of relatively simple game mechanics.[1]
    ..
    Since the 1970s and 1980s board games and table top role playing games such as Cosmic Encounter or Dungeons & Dragons have featured intentional emergence as a primary game function by supplying players with relatively simple rules or frameworks for play that intentionally encouraged them to explore creative strategies or interactions and exploit them toward victory or goal achievement

     

    That says absolutely nothing about the ability to permanantly change the shared world, which is exactly what "sandbox" refers to.

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