The first bit of bad news I've seen about EQN

Daaken

Well apparently the class panel just concluded not long ago and here's a rundown from EQNexus:

http://www.eqnexus.com/2013/08/soe-live-day-3-everquest-next-class-system/

 

 

The big take away for me is this one little bullet point:

• Character abilities are pick and choose, weapon abilities are not.

 

This is a personal pet peeve of mine and it is highly opinionated but I do not like this one bit.  Using GW2 as a context this was one of the worst aspects about GW2 I disliked.  I do not care to have such rigid weapon abilities because it takes away choice and player freedom.  In a game with only 8 abilities to place on your hotbar what happens when your favorite weapon style and aesthetic choice is not a good skill or something you may not like.  An example I like to use is the two-handed sword skill for GW2 Warrior called "Whirlwind Attack", this attack is almost pointless because you already receive a "gap-closing" ability in the 5-slot, this means this skill becomes situational at best.  Within a more free form skill system I would never take 2 gap closers and would much rather have another damaging ability in it's place. 

 

It's way to early to tell if this is a deal breaker for me, but I did personally not like this about GW2.

Bad.dog

Another feature brought over from  GW2 that I find outstanding to each their own I guess

bingbongbros

The part that made me sad was no dedicated tank or healing roles.  That means no trinity and means it will just be a zerg dodge fest like gw2.

Karteli

They are also reiterating the no-trinity "rumor" that some are vehemently denying.

 

No dedicated tank or healer roles in group play.  Everyone is responsible for their own safety.  Combat model will not support that type of play.

 

Everyone gets a heal ability to ensure their "own" safety.  This is going to be a trainwreck if they are cloning GW2.

NagelRitter

Yeah, I'd much rather go with the GW1 system. GW2's gives way too little flexibility.

There's always that major problem. Just like with cloning WoW. GW2 already exists.

Vapors

well they could probly go for weapon skills, and you can choose a few skills for this weapon. This would be better then the simple gw2 technique which gave u nnon changing abilities each weapon.

Imo i was also upset about this in gw2 it made be feel pretty bored after like level 30 and pvp level 15 or something. It also takes away uniques:/

gadunk

I like the trinity.. every man for himself style is too chaotic and really gets boring fast. It doesn't promote the same teamwork as the trinity does and is a lazy fix for not having enough tanks/healers to run dungeons.

jerlot65

Hopefully SOE is doing what WoW did when it was developed.  Take parts of other games and improve upon.

There's some big differences between what GW2 and what EQN is trying to do.  EQN is giving you more freedom to mix and match just about any class together.  Unlike Guildwars where you only a had a set from each weapon then a set from your one class.  EQN will be a lot more customizable.

The one thing they took away from GW2 was a way to limit what one character can do at one time.  This is mandatory especially if you are going to offer 40 classes to a single character.

If I had an infinite amount of ability slots, access to the best defensive armor, and access to any spell or ability known in the world that would just not work.

CalmOceans

Originally posted by Bad.dog
Another feature brought over from  GW2 that I find outstanding to each their own I guess

I never played GW2. What's the point in giving people only 8 abilities.

shamall

Originally posted by gadunk
I like the trinity.. every man for himself style is too chaotic and really gets boring fast. It doesn't promote the same teamwork as the trinity does and is a lazy fix for not having enough tanks/healers to run dungeons.

Yep, this is the exact feeling I got from GW2. The group play felt like it was every man for himself instead of working together as a team.

issling

My only question is if everybody can do every class and everybody can carry any weapon then what is the point? Everybody will be the same so I guess when you form your group people will choose their role and everybody will slot something diffrent and in turn create a trinity?

jerlot65

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Bad.dog
Another feature brought over from  GW2 that I find outstanding to each their own I guess

I never played GW2. What's the point in giving people only 8 abilities.

Two reasons.  Keep the controls simple and let the game be ported to the PS4.

 

This i dont mind as long as they keep to the premise of a game that is easy to learn but hard to master. 

Sevenstar61

So here we have:

EverQuest Next Class System Updates

• Goal is iconic abilities with new functionality.
• Warriors are destructive and strong.  Have a leap, whirlwind, and shield bash abilities.  Animations are inspired by the incredible hulk. (yeah we've seen it... I really don't like it to be honest0
• Tempests are a storm themed class with two-handed swords and lightning effects.
• Classes must be fun to play and to look at.  Each class must have a personality.
• Class choice will determine your armor and weapon options.
• Weapon choice will determine which 4 weapon abilities you have.
• Classes that use the same weapons have different animations, enabling players to identify what class someone is playing by watching them move.
• Character ability types: movement, offensive, defensive and utilities.
• Progress earned on a specific class may be applied to any other class that a player has discovered – much like diverting AA experience currently.
• No dedicated tank or healer roles in group play.  Everyone is responsible for their own safety.  Combat model will not support that type of play.
• You can still play specific roles within combat, and some classes can be built to tend toward support, defensive, etc.
• Players perform roles in combat and customize their abilities to trend their class towards things like tank or support, but you will not build a class that ONLY has tank abilities and have that as a required tank class for every group.
• Utility classes will be rewarded for their efforts.
• Players may customize their class by choosing abilities from any of the classes they currently possess.
• Example Classes: Blademaster, Rogue, Wizard, Tempest
• Character abilities are pick and choose, weapon abilities are not.
• A class is defined by armor type, weapons, and weapon abilities – those cannot be changed.
• A class also has four other abilities grouped by type (movement, defensive, offensive, utility) that can be swapped.
• Items often modify class abilities and make a difference in how you play.  Abilities + Items = Class Build.  Examples are Brain Burn, Teleport, Spell Reflect, and Stun.
• Emphasis will be on customizing your class with multi-class abilities.
• Players can name custom classes.
• Ranged abilities will “definitely have range.”
• Item releases compared to League of Legends champ releases and Magic’s sets.  Each changes strategies.
• Many abilities will not require a target – swing a long sword, hit anything in its way.  More action oriented.
• Raids do not require specific classes or roles, but there are some that are raid or dungeon crawl specific.
• “No specific role or pair of roles will be integral to unlocking the encounter,” but there will be group responsibility.
• “Did your best healer quit the guild?  No worries, it’s no longer going to be detrimental.  Time to move on.”
• Tactics are more important than roles.
• Newly added weapons will give the game more abilities.
• Many variations of pets: permanent and single fight.
• Player pets will also use the emergent AI system described in the EverQuest Next keynote.
• The combat style seen in the debut video is not the norm.  Those were highly advanced characters versus weak AI.
• Eight combined abilities is like choosing eight spell slots in EverQuest.
• There is no artificial limitation to the number of classes or abilities that you can collect.
• AI will not be tricked into fighting someone.  They will know how you are hurting them, and they will stop it.  You will want friends playing with you.
• Another goal: longevity.  Additional classes can be added after launch.
• Multi-classing reminding some of AA builds, mixing and matching situationally.
• Faction limitations are a possibility for race/class combinations.
• You don’t have to multi-class, and they will work to make sure classes are not useless in certain situations.

 

Is it going to be A GW2 clone??????

termsy

Everyone's using GW2 as an example of why this type of system didn't work. THIS IS NOT GW2. 

 

Before GW2, a lot of people were so excited about the trinity being gone, and how it was going to shake up the MMORPG gene gameplay. And then they got their hands on it, and got bored with the spamming after 3 weeks.

 

You and I both dont know how SOE is going to implement the combat system. But the people who are basing it off of one example that failed are the vocal ones.

Uproar

Originally posted by Karteli

They are also reiterating the no-trinity "rumor" that some are vehemently denying.

 

No dedicated tank or healer roles in group play.  Everyone is responsible for their own safety.  Combat model will not support that type of play.

 

Everyone gets a heal ability to ensure their "own" safety.  This is going to be a trainwreck if they are cloning GW2.

 This is not Everquest.  They better just give up and call it something else.  This model is not Everquests. 

CalmOceans

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

So here we have:

EverQuest Next Class System Updates

• Eight combined abilities is like choosing eight spell slots in EverQuest.

To be fair, that worked in EQ for a few years and quickly stopped working.

The amount of spell slots went up to 12, we got quick spell mem to instantly change out spells, and we got a bazillion abilities on top of our spells.

EQ casters have more like 40 spell slots now instead of 8 thanks to their added abilities.

 

there's 12 spell slots and a bazillion abilities (it's a hybrid, but same thing)

Latronus

Originally posted by gadunk
I like the trinity.. every man for himself style is too chaotic and really gets boring fast. It doesn't promote the same teamwork as the trinity does and is a lazy fix for not having enough tanks/healers to run dungeons.

I totally disagree.  I think the trinity is lazy.  Combat is supposed to be chaotic and the trinity places roles upon people so that they are required to perform a specific function in a specific manner.  If done better than GW2 this could increase communication because comms are needed to overcome the chaos.  We shall see though.

NagelRitter

Originally posted by Karteli

No dedicated tank or healer roles in group play.  Everyone is responsible for their own safety.  Combat model will not support that type of play.

 

Everyone gets a heal ability to ensure their "own" safety.  This is going to be a trainwreck if they are cloning GW2.

So the thing you are quoting is from twitter.

But the line under that, I believe, is yours. Or do you have any source for that? That we indeed get a healing spell? Because that's not the impression I got.

I got the impression that you're free to fill your slots with healing spells, but you don't get a mandatory one like in GW2.

Unless you have a source for this, don't spread false information if it's just an assumption.

Squishydew

No no NO ;-; For the love of god give me my trinity back! I'm a healer by heart! I dont want your freaking hybrid systems anymore -sobs-

Karteli

Originally posted by NagelRitter

Originally posted by Karteli

No dedicated tank or healer roles in group play.  Everyone is responsible for their own safety.  Combat model will not support that type of play.

 

Everyone gets a heal ability to ensure their "own" safety.  This is going to be a trainwreck if they are cloning GW2.

So the thing you are quoting is from twitter.

But the line under that, I believe, is yours. Or do you have any source for that? That we indeed get a healing spell? Because that's not the impression I got.

I got the impression that you're free to fill your slots with healing spells, but you don't get a mandatory one like in GW2.

Unless you have a source for this, don't spread false information if it's just an assumption.

The white regular text line was my commentary, yes. [hence not blue as highlighted].  Unless you really think SOE was also calling their own game a potential trainwreck..

 

Call it misinformation, but I think it's a fair inference from the blue quote, which is taken from the OP's link.  If everyone is responsible for their own safety, then they are responsible for their own self-heals, ala GW2.  No dedicated healers or tanks, GW2.  Combat model will not support dedicated tanks or healers - no trinity .. anti-EverQuest.

vayte

Um I was at that panel and they definitely did not say that. In fact they said the opposite. Your weapon determines what abilities can be used but they will still be adjustable and allow for change as long as the abilities are represented of that particular weapon. There are way more than just 4 abilities per weapon

NagelRitter

Originally posted by Karteli
If everyone is responsible for their own safety, then they are responsible for their own self-heals, ala GW2.

Why this conclusion? Being responsible for your safety just means you don't try to purposefully kill yourself and hope the healer heals you. Even in Trinity games DPS are expected to not stand in the fire and do stupid stuff. That statement can have as much to do with avoidance as it can with healing. It can also just indicate that the game, well, doesn't really work like that.

For instance, in many Trinity games, tanks don't survive for too long without a healer at all. In non-Trinity games, a tanky character is usually quite survivable in general, without necessarily being healed all the time. Because damage is readjusted so the tank is not constantly eating half his entire hp bar worth of damage.

Furthermore, how would the heal fit into the current paradigm? I presume 4 slots for weapon skills, 4 slots for class skills, where does the heal go? It's not a weapon skill. Unless it's 3 slots for weapon skills, 1 heal skill, and 4 for class skills or something. But a heal makes a lot more sense as a class ability.

Also, nothing prevents you from making a character that has all healing abilities.

Darwa

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by NagelRitter

Originally posted by Karteli

No dedicated tank or healer roles in group play.  Everyone is responsible for their own safety.  Combat model will not support that type of play.

 

Everyone gets a heal ability to ensure their "own" safety.  This is going to be a trainwreck if they are cloning GW2.

So the thing you are quoting is from twitter.

But the line under that, I believe, is yours. Or do you have any source for that? That we indeed get a healing spell? Because that's not the impression I got.

I got the impression that you're free to fill your slots with healing spells, but you don't get a mandatory one like in GW2.

Unless you have a source for this, don't spread false information if it's just an assumption.

The white regular text line was my commentary, yes. [hence not blue as highlighted].  Unless you really think SOE was also calling their own game a potential trainwreck..

 

Call it misinformation, but I think it's a fair inference from the blue quote, which is taken from the OP's link.  If everyone is responsible for their own safety, then they are responsible for their own self-heals, ala GW2.  No dedicated healers or tanks, GW2.  Combat model will not support dedicated tanks or healers - no trinity .. anti-EverQuest.

This is OT, and I'm not having a go at anyone, but this highlights the need to communicate effectively very well. The use of colours by people on open forums is not a good thing. I'll add this to my collection, so thanks

Back on-topic; no trinity, no Darwa.

Lokero

Originally posted by Daaken

Well apparently the class panel just concluded not long ago and here's a rundown from EQNexus:

http://www.eqnexus.com/2013/08/soe-live-day-3-everquest-next-class-system/

 

 

The big take away for me is this one little bullet point:

• Character abilities are pick and choose, weapon abilities are not.

 

This is a personal pet peeve of mine and it is highly opinionated but I do not like this one bit.  Using GW2 as a context this was one of the worst aspects about GW2 I disliked.  I do not care to have such rigid weapon abilities because it takes away choice and player freedom.  In a game with only 8 abilities to place on your hotbar what happens when your favorite weapon style and aesthetic choice is not a good skill or something you may not like.  An example I like to use is the two-handed sword skill for GW2 Warrior called "Whirlwind Attack", this attack is almost pointless because you already receive a "gap-closing" ability in the 5-slot, this means this skill becomes situational at best.  Within a more free form skill system I would never take 2 gap closers and would much rather have another damaging ability in it's place. 

 

It's way to early to tell if this is a deal breaker for me, but I did personally not like this about GW2.

This is one of the things I didn't like about GW2, also.  It was lame to not be able to stick with your favored weapon because the skills on it weren't as good as the skills on another.  Some weapons were just unwieldy in GW2 because of this system.

They did say, though, that each class gets different skills with each weapon or something.  So, maybe that will deflect some of the lockdown to a degree, and open up a little more flexibility.  Hopefully, with mix-and-match class system/abilities, they'll find a way to make the weapon skills somewhat mix-and-match alongside.

Personally, I'm okay with the limited hotbar and having to pick and choose your abilities to put on the bar, but I do not like the forced weapon system.

Fratman

Originally posted by shamall

Originally posted by gadunk
I like the trinity.. every man for himself style is too chaotic and really gets boring fast. It doesn't promote the same teamwork as the trinity does and is a lazy fix for not having enough tanks/healers to run dungeons.

Yep, this is the exact feeling I got from GW2. The group play felt like it was every man for himself instead of working together as a team.

That's not due to the combat style. It's because GW2 is a bad mmo and there really isn't a point to all the fighting. If you had actual goals that mattered and required teamwork...players would work together because they had to.

red_cruiser

I'm not sure what was so great about GW2 that it should be seen as the future of the MMORPG genre.  Obviously improvements could be made on the model as a whole, but I wouldn't particularly see that as worth the effort.