Originally posted by SirBalin For me it's the lack of pvp...looked at it..and I can't stand only having pvp in one area...regardless of size. If the add a pvp server, i'll be interested again.
It's an entire country the size of Oblivion. Lack of?
You have an entire country.
There's also a TON of area just for pve...I personally just get turned off by that.
You know you can still find people PVEing in PVP areas right? As there will be plenty of PVE in PVP areas, you can still gank that guy just trying to get a quest done. Or get ganked while you're trying to quest...
Exactly. And you go there deliberately so no surpprises when you don't feel like PvPing.
I get a kick out of all these random "open world PVP or nothing" posts. Last I looked, Darkfall Unholy Wars had, at best, 20K people in the west playing it. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the PVP everywhere sandbox system. It's even more niche now than it used to be. And for good reason: it has always been abused by asshats and weanies.
OWPVP is a great example of how MMO systems that sound good in theory - and it is a good system theoretically because of the greater realism factor - can fail hard when implemented. Experienced MMO developers spend a lot of time these days programming grief and exploit prevention. History tells us that in MMOs, if it can be exploited or griefed, you can bet your ass that it will be.
WOW has over 100 OWPVP severs and any one of those servers has more players on at one time than the combined player base of DAOC and GW2 combined. Care to try again?
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Because its like DAOC. RVR center of the map Zerging is not and never will be a true pvp experience. It also does not help that DAOC and GW2 are hated by a good chunk of players that is to say it is itself a niche type of mmo game. One I do not find compatible with Elder Scrolls lore or playstyle.
Better wake up fast, as daoc is still seen as the best pvp experience by many that got a chance to play the game before the atlantis expansion.
gw2 Wvwvw was not as good as daoc, but that is mainly for the lack of personal goals, its where DAoc hadd its realmpoints, where gw2 went wrong.
You are clearly under the assumption, that if you dont like something, noboddy must like it. Well, you might be wrong there.. This is not a niche in pvp but the future of pvp in mostly PvE oriented games.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by SirBalin For me it's the lack of pvp...looked at it..and I can't stand only having pvp in one area...regardless of size. If the add a pvp server, i'll be interested again.
It's an entire country the size of Oblivion. Lack of?
You have an entire country.
There's also a TON of area just for pve...I personally just get turned off by that.
You know you can still find people PVEing in PVP areas right? As there will be plenty of PVE in PVP areas, you can still gank that guy just trying to get a quest done. Or get ganked while you're trying to quest...
Exactly. And you go there deliberately so no surpprises when you don't feel like PvPing.
I get a kick out of all these random "open world PVP or nothing" posts. Last I looked, Darkfall Unholy Wars had, at best, 20K people in the west playing it. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the PVP everywhere sandbox system. It's even more niche now than it used to be. And for good reason: it has always been abused by asshats and weanies.
OWPVP is a great example of how MMO systems that sound good in theory - and it is a good system theoretically because of the greater realism factor - can fail hard when implemented. Experienced MMO developers spend a lot of time these days programming grief and exploit prevention. History tells us that in MMOs, if it can be exploited or griefed, you can bet your ass that it will be.
WOW has over 100 OWPVP severs and any one of those servers has more players on at one time than the combined player base of DAOC and GW2 combined. Care to try again?
Lol WOW...aka Scenario PVP dumbed-down world. Do you still play that? I could have sworn I saw a post of yours saying you left before Cata ...
I have to admit I did have fun playing in Emerald Dream (RP/PVP - talk about niche lol) way, way back when people actually did open world PvP instead of just weekly city raids to get the achievement and bear (not sure what the Horde got but it was a bear for us.) I still have a level 80 Lock and Pally there somewhere... the Pally with the "Explorer" achievement (went everywhere) good times....
But last time I looked WOW PVP serveres are just as much about hanging out in the main city of the day waiting for a dungeon, raid or scenario PVP to pop... that or random stealthers ganking low level quest hubs... open world PVP does not happen there in any meaningful way... talk about frigging boring lol...
But hey, don't let me stop you, a die-hardf WOWite from mentioning DAoC in every post you make. I think we know your schtick by now: DAoC sucks... ergo ESO will too. But funny how you still can't stay away from this forum.
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WOW has over 100 OWPVP severs and any one of those servers has more players on at one time than the combined player base of DAOC and GW2 combined. Care to try again?
WoW has over 10x the players of any of these other games at least.
WoW is not a good example to use for anything. It's an outlier. Many have tried to recreate it's success, none have succeeded (both with PvE and PvP). Furthermore, the vast majority of players currently playing WoW spend most of their time in towns, waiting on LFG / LFR or PvP ques. Even on PvP servers.
Furthermore you're comparing WoW to a game like DAoC (which did have large scale pvp) to prove that PvP is somehow more popular, than a game whos focus is on PvP. Kind of a contradiction there. And if you were to take this same comparison and apply it to other games like UO, Darkfall, Shadowbane?
Surprise, you'd find that equally WoW still outshines all those examples in terms of popularity. Because WoW is a horrible metric for what players actually want. It's by far the most popular MMO atm, even though most players seem to want something else.
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Because its like DAOC. RVR center of the map Zerging is not and never will be a true pvp experience. It also does not help that DAOC and GW2 are hated by a good chunk of players that is to say it is itself a niche type of mmo game. One I do not find compatible with Elder Scrolls lore or playstyle.
Better wake up fast, as daoc is still seen as the best pvp experience by many that got a chance to play the game before the atlantis expansion.
gw2 Wvwvw was not as good as daoc, but that is mainly for the lack of personal goals, its where DAoc hadd its realmpoints, where gw2 went wrong.
You are clearly under the assumption, that if you dont like something, noboddy must like it. Well, you might be wrong there.. This is not a niche in pvp but the future of pvp in mostly PvE oriented games.
By many you mean the under 250k players that ever played it in the first place? It actually peaked in subs during the atlantis expansion which was admittedly bad especially for us that hate gear grinds. It is not about me not liking it but it is about many many people having a long history of not liking DAOC.
Time might make the heart grow fonder for old DAOC vets yearning for the good old days, but even in DAOCs prime it was being beaten out by Star Wars Galaxies, by leaps and bounds and I would hardly call that a AAA mmorpg.
As for the WOW comparison not being fair well thats fine because DAOC cannot compete with either Lineage game or EVE online either, not even close.
Also WOW PvP servers are OWPVP it doesn't matter that its a themepark or not, thats another topic of discussion completely. But if you foolishly bring up Darkfall every time OWPVP is mentioned out of self defense the proof is obvious in multiple games that OWPVP outperforms games not offering it by hundreds of thousands.
Honestly what are these prime examples of high pop non pvp mmorpgs? EQ2, Final Fantasy, LOTR, all of which including DAOC have fewer players than SWTOR. Is GW2 with its barely 250k players if that many supposedly the light at then end of the tunnel? It will probably get a 25% dip as soon as any of the new mmorpgs gets released.
If you cannot get half a million players to play GW2 for free, why would they spend money every month for the same thing reskinned with Elder Scrolls skins?
ESO looks like a extremely generic mmo with bad animations from walking to fighting. Immersion is hammered down by looking like a turd with a bow Rift also have this bad animations but its far superior in quality of other directions.
It could have been on the top of my list, but due to these decisions of bad animations i got totaly turned off by it
It dropped off my radar as well. Wait till late January/early February... it should pick up steam by then. I don't expect any major announcements for the holidays except for maybe an epic trailer or two. But if they give us the complete schedule for Beta before the end of the year… then that would definitely put it back in my radar.
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Because its like DAOC. RVR center of the map Zerging is not and never will be a true pvp experience. It also does not help that DAOC and GW2 are hated by a good chunk of players that is to say it is itself a niche type of mmo game. One I do not find compatible with Elder Scrolls lore or playstyle.
Better wake up fast, as daoc is still seen as the best pvp experience by many that got a chance to play the game before the atlantis expansion.
Better wake up fast, as DaoC is still seen as a small piece of the MMO universe and most couldn't care less about it or its 13 year old outdated game format that catered to a small group of people. Face it, its so bad they had to take a famous IP in order to make it again...that's just how little people cared for it. Hell, even Asherons Call got a sequel and yet the original is still going today. Cant help but wonder, if RvRvR in a centered zone was so great...why wasn't it copied? Where are the other games that hold your hand to a central area to fight in? Could it be because it so vastly limited the entire game that it was better off left in the past...no way!
Even funnier yet, the new EQ Landmark game will be more TES than TESO...it will be fully mod'able.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Since its obvious to me that EQN will not be released before somewhere in 2015 i gave other games some attention. On my nice spot in the shadow near our pool, i abused my ipad to browse stuff about TESO. And it got my wondering, espescially after watching all these videos of RatzCast that neatly explain all known features of the game. I can only advise people with some time at their hands to watch all of them oldest first.
Since i love games with a darker more dreery background that feel more Epic and less like a game, the story and lore of tamriel seem spot on to sattisfy that part. And as a player that loves discovery and good combat in an immersive world, i could seriously not find that much irritators with this game. To me it now feels like the perfect blend of an Elder scrolls game and an MMO.
There are absolutely no No-Go items with this game, and only a few (i would like to see that improved things) While people are complaining about instancing, phasing and no raids, they obviously missed some information. Because next to instancing, this game will have open world dungeons, open world bosses and dynamic stuff going in the open world. But there are also so called adventures, which require up to 24 people in PvE. It feels like AI in MMOs got to a new hight.
PvP will be closest to DAoC so far (closer then GW2) with the Imperial city being a special place in the center and i asume taking the place and function of Darkness falls in DAoC.
So far i could only say :
Annimations
Death pennalty (to easy)
Mob leashes and mobs ignoring other players.
Have some room for improvement..
Thats not much, so why in heavens name do i get that feeling that everyone is dissapointed with the direction this game takes?
I will list what other things come up in the post downhere that are actually worth mentioning as shortcommings..
- Only the console version will have build in Voicechat.
Game is disappointing. They could of made it a lot better than what it is.
I personally prefer that people ignore this game until right before release. Overly hyped games have a tendency to disappoint. I'd rather people be pleasantly surprised with the game instead of disappointed because it didn't live up to some fantasy ideal.
I honestly don't know why, i have no real reason for it but i genuinely don't care about ESO at all, i never think of it, am not interested in reading about it..
I've seen a few videos and read a few articles here and there, but it never appealed to me, when first hearing of it I just thought they could never make an elder scrolls online game that would live up to the singleplayer titles, and after that.. ehm.. I just, never thought about it again.
I realize It's a product by zenimax, not really bethesda and i should judge it for It's own merits, but I've come to expect very very little of new MMORPG's over the past few years.. I don't think It's an ESO problem for me personally, i just expect all MMORPG releases to be bad or generic.
The only real reason i still look for a MMO now and then is in the hopes that something really truly unique comes out of the woodworks.
I honestly don't know why, i have no real reason for it but i genuinely don't care about ESO at all, i never think of it, am not interested in reading about it..
I've seen a few videos and read a few articles here and there, but it never appealed to me, when first hearing of it I just thought they could never make an elder scrolls online game that would live up to the singleplayer titles, and after that.. ehm.. I just, never thought about it again.
I realize It's a product by zenimax, not really bethesda and i should judge it for It's own merits, but I've come to expect very very little of new MMORPG's over the past few years.. I don't think It's an ESO problem for me personally, i just expect all MMORPG releases to be bad or generic.
The only real reason i still look for a MMO now and then is in the hopes that something really truly unique comes out of the woodworks.
There is nothing super unique on the horizon, so no MMOs for you lol. Instead, focus on Occulus Rift, that is where the next big change will be in 2014.....hopefully :-).
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Because its like DAOC. RVR center of the map Zerging is not and never will be a true pvp experience. It also does not help that DAOC and GW2 are hated by a good chunk of players that is to say it is itself a niche type of mmo game. One I do not find compatible with Elder Scrolls lore or playstyle.
Better wake up fast, as daoc is still seen as the best pvp experience by many that got a chance to play the game before the atlantis expansion.
Better wake up fast, as DaoC is still seen as a small piece of the MMO universe and most couldn't care less about it or its 13 year old outdated game format that catered to a small group of people. Face it, its so bad they had to take a famous IP in order to make it again...that's just how little people cared for it. Hell, even Asherons Call got a sequel and yet the original is still going today. Cant help but wonder, if RvRvR in a centered zone was so great...why wasn't it copied? Where are the other games that hold your hand to a central area to fight in? Could it be because it so vastly limited the entire game that it was better off left in the past...no way!
Even funnier yet, the new EQ Landmark game will be more TES than TESO...it will be fully mod'able.
You're both right and both wrong.
MMOs are personal. MMOs are an Art Form, as well as a business. I will say this again.... MMOs are not just a business, they are also an Art Form. That means some customers will like their MMOs with purple circles on green, while others like their MMOs with black squares on silver, while others.... on and on and on.
Whether a MMO has thousands or hundreds of thousands of Players has far less to do with what type of PvP they have... rather it comes down to whether a MMO sells their product in game and hobby shops using word of mouth advertizing *or* sells their product by stacking retail boxes on endcaps at Walmart all over the world.... while broadcasting Mr. T and Mini Me playing their MMO on TV commercials. Which MMO is going to sell more? The one that mass markets their MMO to the masses on an endcaps at Walmart, that's who.
Question.... The guys that sold their MMO at Walmart with slick TV ads ... does that mean their MMOs was better than the others?
Nope.
All it meant was they did a better job of retail advertizing and selling their product, that is all. Everyone knows how much a product is advertized is inversely proportional to how good the product IS.... chew on that a while...
Blizzard's success has much more to do with smart marketing and retail sales strategy than anything else. Yes they streamlined some MMO features so MMOs were easier to play, Yes they made other improvements, but it was their business savvy that won them their dominance of the genre.
Why wasn't RvR copied by other MMO Publishers? Who the frack knows to be honest... I understood some if it had to do with concerns over IP issues and whether Devs could copy DAoC's RvR features without EA screaming down their throats. If I where a Dev that would be a major concern of mine. I would make sure none of my new MMOs features could be said to be a copy of DAoC's features.
What is a "fact" is that some Players liked DAoC style PvP and others did not, and that has more to do with personal preference than anything else.
How many Players a MMO has is not an accurate indicator of quality. It is an indication of business strategy more than anything else.
(and I can't believe it is me... the hater of business, money, and finance... that is here now to point this out. The Irony.)
If ESO has fallen off the Radar, and that is how I see it... then it is up to the MMO Publisher of ESO to get it back on the Radar and do so quickly.... for this isn't 2003/2004 and there is a lot more competition in this genre than there used to be.
Originally posted by SirBalin For me it's the lack of pvp...looked at it..and I can't stand only having pvp in one area...regardless of size. If the add a pvp server, i'll be interested again.
this, well not only that, i would say that im gonna try it for the more action oriented mmo style it offers, if it works im sure ill at least level a character to max or near max and wait for a expansion, like i do with most mmos that release.
I think ESO looks really good but the Archery animations need some serious improvement. It's almost painful to watch as the player slowly draws the bow and choppily fires an unsteady arrow. I know it's too much to ask for some physics based Archery like every Elder Scrolls game made since Morrowind, but they could at least add some better animations.
Every... Elder Scrolls game.... since 2002... all of them....
What makes an Elder Scrolls game? Is it the lore or the real-time first person gameplay? I think the answer is both but gameplay is definitely dominant. I'm still annoyed by that but I'll try the game anyway. I don't have any real expectations for the game except that I hope it doesn't turn out to be the game that ruined Elder Scrolls.
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Because its like DAOC. RVR center of the map Zerging is not and never will be a true pvp experience. It also does not help that DAOC and GW2 are hated by a good chunk of players that is to say it is itself a niche type of mmo game. One I do not find compatible with Elder Scrolls lore or playstyle.
Better wake up fast, as daoc is still seen as the best pvp experience by many that got a chance to play the game before the atlantis expansion.
gw2 Wvwvw was not as good as daoc, but that is mainly for the lack of personal goals, its where DAoc hadd its realmpoints, where gw2 went wrong.
You are clearly under the assumption, that if you dont like something, noboddy must like it. Well, you might be wrong there.. This is not a niche in pvp but the future of pvp in mostly PvE oriented games.
Many people think everything is good though, that isn't a great argument. What made DAOC RvR popular was map hacks to be honest. The ability to run around with 8 players and avoid the zerg because someone on your team was running a map hack pretty much saved their game, that is probably why they let them go on so long.
I won't be as harsh as Sleepyfish is on this but I do agree with him, big zerg on big zerg PvP just isn't fun for most players. You aren't making a difference, the battles tend to lag down and most games that promote this do it by not having true consequences to the battle itself. GW2 is one of the worst for this, it is as bad as say PS1 was.
As for ESO itself, in a market that has a ton of games trying to move away from your typical MMORPG it seems that ESO is just trying to copy what is already out there. There just isn't enough interest in that anymore.
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Because its like DAOC. RVR center of the map Zerging is not and never will be a true pvp experience. It also does not help that DAOC and GW2 are hated by a good chunk of players that is to say it is itself a niche type of mmo game. One I do not find compatible with Elder Scrolls lore or playstyle.
Better wake up fast, as daoc is still seen as the best pvp experience by many that got a chance to play the game before the atlantis expansion.
gw2 Wvwvw was not as good as daoc, but that is mainly for the lack of personal goals, its where DAoc hadd its realmpoints, where gw2 went wrong.
You are clearly under the assumption, that if you dont like something, noboddy must like it. Well, you might be wrong there.. This is not a niche in pvp but the future of pvp in mostly PvE oriented games.
Many people think everything is good though, that isn't a great argument. What made DAOC RvR popular was map hacks to be honest. The ability to run around with 8 players and avoid the zerg because someone on your team was running a map hack pretty much saved their game, that is probably why they let them go on so long.
I won't be as harsh as Sleepyfish is on this but I do agree with him, big zerg on big zerg PvP just isn't fun for most players. You aren't making a difference, the battles tend to lag down and most games that promote this do it by not having true consequences to the battle itself. GW2 is one of the worst for this, it is as bad as say PS1 was.
As for ESO itself, in a market that has a ton of games trying to move away from your typical MMORPG it seems that ESO is just trying to copy what is already out there. There just isn't enough interest in that anymore.
Not really, the biggest mmo release this year would be FFXIV:ARR which is so traditional it makes ESO look daring and innovative.
Originally posted by reeereee Not really, the biggest mmo release this year would be FFXIV:ARR which is so traditional it makes ESO look daring and innovative.
My personal expectation is for FFXIV to go F2P or die in under another year though. It is way too soon to judge the succes of this game.
i think i agree with the basic theme from other posters. the game is just not going in a direction that resembles TES. we all wanted Oblivion or Skyrim online and instead it appears we are getting a typical contemporary mmo with a Tamriel skin.
the only saving grace that it might have in the future is its pvp. but that's still very unclear to many of us.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Originally posted by reeereee Not really, the biggest mmo release this year would be FFXIV:ARR which is so traditional it makes ESO look daring and innovative.
My personal expectation is for FFXIV to go F2P or die in under another year though. It is way too soon to judge the succes of this game.
For a normal game I would say yes, but FFXI is still p2p. I don't even think there was a free trial last time I checked. I think SE isn't really comfortable with the f2p model and will cling to p2p as long as they can possibly can.
i think i agree with the basic theme from other posters. the game is just not going in a direction that resembles TES. we all wanted Oblivion or Skyrim online and instead it appears we are getting a typical contemporary mmo with a Tamriel skin.
the only saving grace that it might have in the future is its pvp. but that's still very unclear to many of us.
I agree with you but I will have to say that they are making a good effort to try and make it seem more like TES. For me personally aligning races into a faction takes away from the core concept of TES (I respect that other people feel differently). I would've loved to just create a character and choose my alignment through playing like in the previous games.
i think i agree with the basic theme from other posters. the game is just not going in a direction that resembles TES. we all wanted Oblivion or Skyrim online and instead it appears we are getting a typical contemporary mmo with a Tamriel skin.
the only saving grace that it might have in the future is its pvp. but that's still very unclear to many of us.
I agree with you but I will have to say that they are making a good effort to try and make it seem more like TES. For me personally aligning races into a faction takes away from the core concept of TES (I respect that other people feel differently). I would've loved to just create a character and choose my alignment through playing like in the previous games.
And HOW exactly are they making a good effort to make it seem more like TES? As you said, race is faction locked. faction lands are behind invisible walls, everyone is funneled into a central PvP zone to fight over to crown Legolazzz the player emperor, there are no mods, nor is there a way to create anything in game with something like a "foundry" for in game player creation. You are class locked, sure you can use any weapon but your skills are based on the weapon you have equipped...IE, as a mage no you cannot just go ahead and cast any spell, your magic class will have its base spells and the rest depend on your weapon equipped. Its an illusion of being classless, yet its still your character having a class dependent on weapon and thus giving you a role. That basically is what they are doing, creating an illusion of freedom while still trapping you in old outdated game design.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
As for ESO itself, in a market that has a ton of games trying to move away from your typical MMORPG it seems that ESO is just trying to copy what is already out there. There just isn't enough interest in that anymore.
Not really, the biggest mmo release this year would be FFXIV:ARR which is so traditional it makes ESO look daring and innovative.
Incorrect. FFXIV does not have even half the population as Neverwinter and I would be surprised if it was even more popular than Age of Wushu. Besides, you picked ONE MMO out of around 20 released this year...and it was one that actually wasn't made this year, it was REBOOTED.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
It hasn't but I agree they need to hire some developers to bring their Beta forums online, and fix their site better.
Like I was very impressed with their character customization video, I think I might trade both my Dark-Fall accounts for this game if they design the game properly on release.
1.) I am hoping that ESO has a housing system that allows players to freely customize/change appearance after creating their character, and has vanity slots for Role-Play reasons if it does then I will be for sure playing the game because I love Skyrim I just hate the way the game end but if ESO was a game like Guild-Wars 2 with ever expanding content, and customization it would be awesome.
2.) I hope that if it is Buy 2 Play they do not make the game Pay 2 Enjoy because that will kill the game for me.
3.) Hopefully it is Pay 2 Play though no idea.
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by reeereee
Originally posted by Ender4
As for ESO itself, in a market that has a ton of games trying to move away from your typical MMORPG it seems that ESO is just trying to copy what is already out there. There just isn't enough interest in that anymore.
Not really, the biggest mmo release this year would be FFXIV:ARR which is so traditional it makes ESO look daring and innovative.
Incorrect. FFXIV does not have even half the population as Neverwinter and I would be surprised if it was even more popular than Age of Wushu. Besides, you picked ONE MMO out of around 20 released this year...and it was one that actually wasn't made this year, it was REBOOTED.
I played Age OF Wushu recently I did not like the game at all it absolutely sucks not a true sand-box just my personal opinion and experience. However Final Fantasy XIV re-release in my eyes was a massive failure again but if 2.1/2.2 offers unlimited customization changes, and vanity slots like they said it would on some posts then I might return to the game for awhile if they can make the game fun for me and add PVP. I really like the story that I played so far but I did not like how ugly my character looked in big black robes that looked un-real I would rather be able to customize my hair, and costume I wear in the game and play it instead of changing from a set of armor that looks decent to a ugly set with better stats that just drops.
Comments
WOW has over 100 OWPVP severs and any one of those servers has more players on at one time than the combined player base of DAOC and GW2 combined. Care to try again?
Better wake up fast, as daoc is still seen as the best pvp experience by many that got a chance to play the game before the atlantis expansion.
gw2 Wvwvw was not as good as daoc, but that is mainly for the lack of personal goals, its where DAoc hadd its realmpoints, where gw2 went wrong.
You are clearly under the assumption, that if you dont like something, noboddy must like it. Well, you might be wrong there.. This is not a niche in pvp but the future of pvp in mostly PvE oriented games.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Lol WOW...aka Scenario PVP dumbed-down world. Do you still play that? I could have sworn I saw a post of yours saying you left before Cata ...
I have to admit I did have fun playing in Emerald Dream (RP/PVP - talk about niche lol) way, way back when people actually did open world PvP instead of just weekly city raids to get the achievement and bear (not sure what the Horde got but it was a bear for us.) I still have a level 80 Lock and Pally there somewhere... the Pally with the "Explorer" achievement (went everywhere) good times....
But last time I looked WOW PVP serveres are just as much about hanging out in the main city of the day waiting for a dungeon, raid or scenario PVP to pop... that or random stealthers ganking low level quest hubs... open world PVP does not happen there in any meaningful way... talk about frigging boring lol...
But hey, don't let me stop you, a die-hardf WOWite from mentioning DAoC in every post you make. I think we know your schtick by now: DAoC sucks... ergo ESO will too. But funny how you still can't stay away from this forum.
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― CD PROJEKT RED
WoW has over 10x the players of any of these other games at least.
WoW is not a good example to use for anything. It's an outlier. Many have tried to recreate it's success, none have succeeded (both with PvE and PvP). Furthermore, the vast majority of players currently playing WoW spend most of their time in towns, waiting on LFG / LFR or PvP ques. Even on PvP servers.
Furthermore you're comparing WoW to a game like DAoC (which did have large scale pvp) to prove that PvP is somehow more popular, than a game whos focus is on PvP. Kind of a contradiction there. And if you were to take this same comparison and apply it to other games like UO, Darkfall, Shadowbane?
Surprise, you'd find that equally WoW still outshines all those examples in terms of popularity. Because WoW is a horrible metric for what players actually want. It's by far the most popular MMO atm, even though most players seem to want something else.
By many you mean the under 250k players that ever played it in the first place? It actually peaked in subs during the atlantis expansion which was admittedly bad especially for us that hate gear grinds. It is not about me not liking it but it is about many many people having a long history of not liking DAOC.
Time might make the heart grow fonder for old DAOC vets yearning for the good old days, but even in DAOCs prime it was being beaten out by Star Wars Galaxies, by leaps and bounds and I would hardly call that a AAA mmorpg.
As for the WOW comparison not being fair well thats fine because DAOC cannot compete with either Lineage game or EVE online either, not even close.
Also WOW PvP servers are OWPVP it doesn't matter that its a themepark or not, thats another topic of discussion completely. But if you foolishly bring up Darkfall every time OWPVP is mentioned out of self defense the proof is obvious in multiple games that OWPVP outperforms games not offering it by hundreds of thousands.
Honestly what are these prime examples of high pop non pvp mmorpgs? EQ2, Final Fantasy, LOTR, all of which including DAOC have fewer players than SWTOR. Is GW2 with its barely 250k players if that many supposedly the light at then end of the tunnel? It will probably get a 25% dip as soon as any of the new mmorpgs gets released.
If you cannot get half a million players to play GW2 for free, why would they spend money every month for the same thing reskinned with Elder Scrolls skins?
ESO looks like a extremely generic mmo with bad animations from walking to fighting.
Immersion is hammered down by looking like a turd with a bow
Rift also have this bad animations but its far superior in quality of other directions.
It could have been on the top of my list, but due to these decisions of bad animations i got totaly turned off by it
It dropped off my radar as well. Wait till late January/early February... it should pick up steam by then. I don't expect any major announcements for the holidays except for maybe an epic trailer or two. But if they give us the complete schedule for Beta before the end of the year… then that would definitely put it back in my radar.
Better wake up fast, as DaoC is still seen as a small piece of the MMO universe and most couldn't care less about it or its 13 year old outdated game format that catered to a small group of people. Face it, its so bad they had to take a famous IP in order to make it again...that's just how little people cared for it. Hell, even Asherons Call got a sequel and yet the original is still going today. Cant help but wonder, if RvRvR in a centered zone was so great...why wasn't it copied? Where are the other games that hold your hand to a central area to fight in? Could it be because it so vastly limited the entire game that it was better off left in the past...no way!
Even funnier yet, the new EQ Landmark game will be more TES than TESO...it will be fully mod'able.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Game is disappointing. They could of made it a lot better than what it is.
I honestly don't know why, i have no real reason for it but i genuinely don't care about ESO at all, i never think of it, am not interested in reading about it..
I've seen a few videos and read a few articles here and there, but it never appealed to me, when first hearing of it I just thought they could never make an elder scrolls online game that would live up to the singleplayer titles, and after that.. ehm.. I just, never thought about it again.
I realize It's a product by zenimax, not really bethesda and i should judge it for It's own merits, but I've come to expect very very little of new MMORPG's over the past few years.. I don't think It's an ESO problem for me personally, i just expect all MMORPG releases to be bad or generic.
The only real reason i still look for a MMO now and then is in the hopes that something really truly unique comes out of the woodworks.
There is nothing super unique on the horizon, so no MMOs for you lol. Instead, focus on Occulus Rift, that is where the next big change will be in 2014.....hopefully :-).
There Is Always Hope!
You're both right and both wrong.
MMOs are personal. MMOs are an Art Form, as well as a business. I will say this again.... MMOs are not just a business, they are also an Art Form. That means some customers will like their MMOs with purple circles on green, while others like their MMOs with black squares on silver, while others.... on and on and on.
Whether a MMO has thousands or hundreds of thousands of Players has far less to do with what type of PvP they have... rather it comes down to whether a MMO sells their product in game and hobby shops using word of mouth advertizing *or* sells their product by stacking retail boxes on endcaps at Walmart all over the world.... while broadcasting Mr. T and Mini Me playing their MMO on TV commercials. Which MMO is going to sell more? The one that mass markets their MMO to the masses on an endcaps at Walmart, that's who.
Question.... The guys that sold their MMO at Walmart with slick TV ads ... does that mean their MMOs was better than the others?
Nope.
All it meant was they did a better job of retail advertizing and selling their product, that is all. Everyone knows how much a product is advertized is inversely proportional to how good the product IS.... chew on that a while...
Blizzard's success has much more to do with smart marketing and retail sales strategy than anything else. Yes they streamlined some MMO features so MMOs were easier to play, Yes they made other improvements, but it was their business savvy that won them their dominance of the genre.
Why wasn't RvR copied by other MMO Publishers? Who the frack knows to be honest... I understood some if it had to do with concerns over IP issues and whether Devs could copy DAoC's RvR features without EA screaming down their throats. If I where a Dev that would be a major concern of mine. I would make sure none of my new MMOs features could be said to be a copy of DAoC's features.
What is a "fact" is that some Players liked DAoC style PvP and others did not, and that has more to do with personal preference than anything else.
How many Players a MMO has is not an accurate indicator of quality. It is an indication of business strategy more than anything else.
(and I can't believe it is me... the hater of business, money, and finance... that is here now to point this out. The Irony.)
If ESO has fallen off the Radar, and that is how I see it... then it is up to the MMO Publisher of ESO to get it back on the Radar and do so quickly.... for this isn't 2003/2004 and there is a lot more competition in this genre than there used to be.
this, well not only that, i would say that im gonna try it for the more action oriented mmo style it offers, if it works im sure ill at least level a character to max or near max and wait for a expansion, like i do with most mmos that release.
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
I think ESO looks really good but the Archery animations need some serious improvement. It's almost painful to watch as the player slowly draws the bow and choppily fires an unsteady arrow. I know it's too much to ask for some physics based Archery like every Elder Scrolls game made since Morrowind, but they could at least add some better animations.
Every... Elder Scrolls game.... since 2002... all of them....
What makes an Elder Scrolls game? Is it the lore or the real-time first person gameplay? I think the answer is both but gameplay is definitely dominant. I'm still annoyed by that but I'll try the game anyway. I don't have any real expectations for the game except that I hope it doesn't turn out to be the game that ruined Elder Scrolls.
Many people think everything is good though, that isn't a great argument. What made DAOC RvR popular was map hacks to be honest. The ability to run around with 8 players and avoid the zerg because someone on your team was running a map hack pretty much saved their game, that is probably why they let them go on so long.
I won't be as harsh as Sleepyfish is on this but I do agree with him, big zerg on big zerg PvP just isn't fun for most players. You aren't making a difference, the battles tend to lag down and most games that promote this do it by not having true consequences to the battle itself. GW2 is one of the worst for this, it is as bad as say PS1 was.
As for ESO itself, in a market that has a ton of games trying to move away from your typical MMORPG it seems that ESO is just trying to copy what is already out there. There just isn't enough interest in that anymore.
Not really, the biggest mmo release this year would be FFXIV:ARR which is so traditional it makes ESO look daring and innovative.
My personal expectation is for FFXIV to go F2P or die in under another year though. It is way too soon to judge the succes of this game.
i think i agree with the basic theme from other posters. the game is just not going in a direction that resembles TES. we all wanted Oblivion or Skyrim online and instead it appears we are getting a typical contemporary mmo with a Tamriel skin.
the only saving grace that it might have in the future is its pvp. but that's still very unclear to many of us.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
For a normal game I would say yes, but FFXI is still p2p. I don't even think there was a free trial last time I checked. I think SE isn't really comfortable with the f2p model and will cling to p2p as long as they can possibly can.
I agree with you but I will have to say that they are making a good effort to try and make it seem more like TES. For me personally aligning races into a faction takes away from the core concept of TES (I respect that other people feel differently). I would've loved to just create a character and choose my alignment through playing like in the previous games.
And HOW exactly are they making a good effort to make it seem more like TES? As you said, race is faction locked. faction lands are behind invisible walls, everyone is funneled into a central PvP zone to fight over to crown Legolazzz the player emperor, there are no mods, nor is there a way to create anything in game with something like a "foundry" for in game player creation. You are class locked, sure you can use any weapon but your skills are based on the weapon you have equipped...IE, as a mage no you cannot just go ahead and cast any spell, your magic class will have its base spells and the rest depend on your weapon equipped. Its an illusion of being classless, yet its still your character having a class dependent on weapon and thus giving you a role. That basically is what they are doing, creating an illusion of freedom while still trapping you in old outdated game design.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Its not an mmorpg so...not for me...
If people like online co-op rpgs then might be a nice one...
Incorrect. FFXIV does not have even half the population as Neverwinter and I would be surprised if it was even more popular than Age of Wushu. Besides, you picked ONE MMO out of around 20 released this year...and it was one that actually wasn't made this year, it was REBOOTED.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
It hasn't but I agree they need to hire some developers to bring their Beta forums online, and fix their site better.
Like I was very impressed with their character customization video, I think I might trade both my Dark-Fall accounts for this game if they design the game properly on release.
1.) I am hoping that ESO has a housing system that allows players to freely customize/change appearance after creating their character, and has vanity slots for Role-Play reasons if it does then I will be for sure playing the game because I love Skyrim I just hate the way the game end but if ESO was a game like Guild-Wars 2 with ever expanding content, and customization it would be awesome.
2.) I hope that if it is Buy 2 Play they do not make the game Pay 2 Enjoy because that will kill the game for me.
3.) Hopefully it is Pay 2 Play though no idea.
I played Age OF Wushu recently I did not like the game at all it absolutely sucks not a true sand-box just my personal opinion and experience. However Final Fantasy XIV re-release in my eyes was a massive failure again but if 2.1/2.2 offers unlimited customization changes, and vanity slots like they said it would on some posts then I might return to the game for awhile if they can make the game fun for me and add PVP. I really like the story that I played so far but I did not like how ugly my character looked in big black robes that looked un-real I would rather be able to customize my hair, and costume I wear in the game and play it instead of changing from a set of armor that looks decent to a ugly set with better stats that just drops.