Originally posted by Bootez Eve isn't P2W? Yeah, go buy some PLEX, sell it, and tell me that didn't just help fund your new couple ships.
Please, please, please try that, come back and tell us all how it worked out for you.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Why is it that almost every single mmo in existence right now has some sort of pay to win component?
PS2: Weapons.
GW2: Gold through gems
Anarchy Online: You can buy a level 220 and then pay more and gear it out in Ofab.
Firefall: Pay to unlock battleframes.
Diablo 3: Cash shop auction house.
Eve: PLEX
League of Legends: Let's just buy that new OP champion.
Even our "beloved" World of Warcraft: XP potion (Coming soon to a store near you!)
I don't understand why this is necessary. Why can't games be bound to the games themselves? Why is it that we can't just go camp out that cool cosmetic gear instead of pulling out the wallet? Even cosmetic cash shops are a problem. It break immersion. It ruins the whole idea of building up a character (Yes, that includes looks). We all want to feel connected to our characters again, but we keep buying into the "Oh, cosmetic shops are okay. And hey, why shouldn't I be able to pay $200 for a max level character, or $5 for a new weapon, or new class?"
The thing that made MMO's so great in the past is that we had to spend the time to make ourselves look rad. We have been putting cheat codes into these games for the last few years, essentially. Let's just take a look at consoles: What do you remember most fondly? The game you beat without cheating? Or the game you threw all the invincibility codes in and flew through it?
We are cheating ourselves out of great experiences and the companies are eating it up.
I just want an honest mmo company to make a game that isn't about nickel and diming, but about creating an immersive, wonderful experience. When I log into the game and realize I can just throw money at hardships, what is the point?
People have been pushing for a lower cost of entry to online games for 20 years. free to play is one result of that. With free to play the cash shops support the game companies and you have generally two types of players. Freeloaders and Patrons.
The patrons support the game with their money whereas freeloaders just ride the game for free. Patron understand they are supporting the comany and want something in return. Certain freeloaders are vocal about what they want and that is to have all the advantages of the patron without spending a dime. It is not a realistic position.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
it won't stop because people are too impatient and need to have satisfaction right this second. It is infectious almost like a zombie virus. F2P will keep spreading and spreading until one day gamers heads will explode just like zombies do.
All games have P2W elements becuase it is a way to, deceptively, get a lot more than $15 a month out of the average gamer. All the while claiming "Free." There is a sucker born every minute, after all.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
[mod edit]
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
All games have P2W elements becuase it is a way to, deceptively, get a lot more than $15 a month out of the average gamer. All the while claiming "Free." There is a sucker born every minute, after all.
No. The average gamer pays nothing. It is about getting the most out of whales, while most play for free.
In fact, i just finished all the stories content in Marvel Heroes without paying a single cent. Tell me, how is that not free?
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
[mod edit]
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Why is it that almost every single mmo in existence right now has some sort of pay to win component?
PS2: Weapons.
GW2: Gold through gems
Anarchy Online: You can buy a level 220 and then pay more and gear it out in Ofab.
Firefall: Pay to unlock battleframes.
Diablo 3: Cash shop auction house.
Eve: PLEX
League of Legends: Let's just buy that new OP champion.
Even our "beloved" World of Warcraft: XP potion (Coming soon to a store near you!)
I don't understand why this is necessary. Why can't games be bound to the games themselves? Why is it that we can't just go camp out that cool cosmetic gear instead of pulling out the wallet? Even cosmetic cash shops are a problem. It break immersion. It ruins the whole idea of building up a character (Yes, that includes looks). We all want to feel connected to our characters again, but we keep buying into the "Oh, cosmetic shops are okay. And hey, why shouldn't I be able to pay $200 for a max level character, or $5 for a new weapon, or new class?"
The thing that made MMO's so great in the past is that we had to spend the time to make ourselves look rad. We have been putting cheat codes into these games for the last few years, essentially. Let's just take a look at consoles: What do you remember most fondly? The game you beat without cheating? Or the game you threw all the invincibility codes in and flew through it?
We are cheating ourselves out of great experiences and the companies are eating it up.
I just want an honest mmo company to make a game that isn't about nickel and diming, but about creating an immersive, wonderful experience. When I log into the game and realize I can just throw money at hardships, what is the point?
Because the player base these days is impatient and constantly trying to outdo one another for the most attention and/or quickest and best advantage. And in a lot of cases willing to pay to get those things before the next guy.
Why is it that almost every single mmo in existence right now has some sort of pay to win component?
PS2: Weapons.
GW2: Gold through gems
Anarchy Online: You can buy a level 220 and then pay more and gear it out in Ofab.
Firefall: Pay to unlock battleframes.
Diablo 3: Cash shop auction house.
Eve: PLEX
League of Legends: Let's just buy that new OP champion.
Even our "beloved" World of Warcraft: XP potion (Coming soon to a store near you!)
I don't understand why this is necessary. Why can't games be bound to the games themselves? Why is it that we can't just go camp out that cool cosmetic gear instead of pulling out the wallet? Even cosmetic cash shops are a problem. It break immersion. It ruins the whole idea of building up a character (Yes, that includes looks). We all want to feel connected to our characters again, but we keep buying into the "Oh, cosmetic shops are okay. And hey, why shouldn't I be able to pay $200 for a max level character, or $5 for a new weapon, or new class?"
The thing that made MMO's so great in the past is that we had to spend the time to make ourselves look rad. We have been putting cheat codes into these games for the last few years, essentially. Let's just take a look at consoles: What do you remember most fondly? The game you beat without cheating? Or the game you threw all the invincibility codes in and flew through it?
We are cheating ourselves out of great experiences and the companies are eating it up.
I just want an honest mmo company to make a game that isn't about nickel and diming, but about creating an immersive, wonderful experience. When I log into the game and realize I can just throw money at hardships, what is the point?
You sir, have absolutely no idea of what P2W means. Move along.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
Until there is consumer resistance, there is no point between first considering a tiny one-time cosmetic sale to making your game a vacuous slot machine where being just a wee bit more aggressive in the monitization is the wrong business decision.
So, as a consumer, when choosing which game on the market to play, you have to make the business model of the game (and your faith that the publisher will stick to it) a part of your decision.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
It's not pay to win in my view if the price is so high that it isn't winning. Personally I would buy me a decent car or a boat rather than a digital sword . /shrug
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Originally posted by ArclanAll games have P2W elements becuase it is a way to, deceptively, get a lot more than $15 a month out of the average gamer. All the while claiming "Free." There is a sucker born every minute, after all.
No. The average gamer pays nothing. It is about getting the most out of whales, while most play for free.
In fact, i just finished all the stories content in Marvel Heroes without paying a single cent. Tell me, how is that not free?
Your post is 100% false Nari. Quit spreading disinformation.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The item itself is something you won by paying; of course the importance of such a win depends on whether or not the game has a main focus on that aspect of the game, which points out a gigantic difference between how GW2 and PoE handles their item malls.
The item itself is something you won by paying; of course the importance of such a win depends on whether or not the game has a main focus on that aspect of the game, which points out a gigantic difference between how GW2 and PoE handles their item malls.
so congrats on winning that item
Is that it? Unless it is a competitive environment I could give a rats ass what other people do with their money in a video game.
Originally posted by ArclanAll games have P2W elements becuase it is a way to, deceptively, get a lot more than $15 a month out of the average gamer. All the while claiming "Free." There is a sucker born every minute, after all.
No. The average gamer pays nothing. It is about getting the most out of whales, while most play for free.
In fact, i just finished all the stories content in Marvel Heroes without paying a single cent. Tell me, how is that not free?
Your post is 100% false Nari. Quit spreading disinformation.
And i will say it is 100% correct, and you are the one who is spreading disinformation. So i shall continue to inform.
So, as a consumer, when choosing which game on the market to play, you have to make the business model of the game (and your faith that the publisher will stick to it) a part of your decision.
A simpler strategy is to play the game for free, until you hit a pay wall, switch to another game. The only decision is whether the fun part of the game is free. Faith has nothing to do with anything.
First I am wondering when Nari has time to play any of the games he mentions, looking at the amount of posts het put on this forum (13.500 in 6 years), but secondly, is p2w such a bad influence on games? Imho skill can't be bought and however great your bought gear is.... If u don't know how to play your char/toon, it's a waste of money.... And a financial gain for the game company, hopefully turning a bit of that revenue into expansions.
Originally posted by Cliff1963 First I am wondering when Nari has time to play any of the games he mentions, looking at the amount of posts het put on this forum (13.500 in 6 years), but secondly, is p2w such a bad influence on games? Imho skill can't be bought and however great your bought gear is.... If u don't know how to play your char/toon, it's a waste of money.... And a financial gain for the game company, hopefully turning a bit of that revenue into expansions.
I wonder if he has a job BEYOND posting on these forums as he claims. =P I just don't see how you can have that many posts and maintain a job is all....unless you work FOR a game company.
A simpler strategy is to play the game for free, until you hit a pay wall, switch to another game. The only decision is whether the fun part of the game is free. Faith has nothing to do with anything.
I'm going to stick with "slam the door on the salesman's foot", thank you.
Eve has a monthly sub to play.There shouldn't be anything in the game where you have to pay anymore then the sub to have a advantage over other players...........
P2W is a misused term. Free to play games still cost a ton of money, and require upkeep just like an other game. If a game was really free to play, who pays to produce it? Who pays for the servers? Do the designers work for free? A game isn't pay to win simply because it has a cash shop, but what really defines it is a game that gives you an advantage over other plays, an advantage only obtainable via real world money. Aside from that, these free to play games need to give incentive for players to use money on the game. Other wise, they don't make money, can't support the game, and can't make any new ones.
Originally posted by ArclanAll games have P2W elements becuase it is a way to, deceptively, get a lot more than $15 a month out of the average gamer. All the while claiming "Free." There is a sucker born every minute, after all.
No. The average gamer pays nothing. It is about getting the most out of whales, while most play for free.
In fact, i just finished all the stories content in Marvel Heroes without paying a single cent. Tell me, how is that not free?
Your post is 100% false Nari. Quit spreading disinformation.
And i will say it is 100% correct, and you are the one who is spreading disinformation. So i shall continue to inform.
You are stretching the truth with your "facts" and you have been called on it many times.
To those unaware here are the missing key points to Nari's argument about most people not paying in a F2P:
1. The people not playing typically hop in for a bit, and out. Never seeing too far into the game. The retention rate of free players is abysmal.
2. Most people who actually stick around have spent money on the game.
3. The non-paying players vastly outnumber the paying ones, but again, don't stick around. Game devs/marketing use these numbers even if the person only played for an hour before uninstalling. That 1 hour counts as a player in all honesty, but seems crooked to me.
Comments
win
1 [win] Show IPA verb, won, win·ning, noun2.
3.
4.
verb (used with object)
6.
7.
8.
9.
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So yeah "win" has multiple meanings and therefore "pay to win" has multiple meanings as well.
Please, please, please try that, come back and tell us all how it worked out for you.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
People have been pushing for a lower cost of entry to online games for 20 years. free to play is one result of that. With free to play the cash shops support the game companies and you have generally two types of players. Freeloaders and Patrons.
The patrons support the game with their money whereas freeloaders just ride the game for free. Patron understand they are supporting the comany and want something in return. Certain freeloaders are vocal about what they want and that is to have all the advantages of the patron without spending a dime. It is not a realistic position.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
All games have P2W elements becuase it is a way to, deceptively, get a lot more than $15 a month out of the average gamer. All the while claiming "Free." There is a sucker born every minute, after all.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
No. The average gamer pays nothing. It is about getting the most out of whales, while most play for free.
In fact, i just finished all the stories content in Marvel Heroes without paying a single cent. Tell me, how is that not free?
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Because the player base these days is impatient and constantly trying to outdo one another for the most attention and/or quickest and best advantage. And in a lot of cases willing to pay to get those things before the next guy.
And companies know it.
You sir, have absolutely no idea of what P2W means. Move along.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
Until there is consumer resistance, there is no point between first considering a tiny one-time cosmetic sale to making your game a vacuous slot machine where being just a wee bit more aggressive in the monitization is the wrong business decision.
So, as a consumer, when choosing which game on the market to play, you have to make the business model of the game (and your faith that the publisher will stick to it) a part of your decision.
It's not pay to win in my view if the price is so high that it isn't winning. Personally I would buy me a decent car or a boat rather than a digital sword . /shrug
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Your post is 100% false Nari. Quit spreading disinformation.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The item itself is something you won by paying; of course the importance of such a win depends on whether or not the game has a main focus on that aspect of the game, which points out a gigantic difference between how GW2 and PoE handles their item malls.
so congrats on winning that item
Is that it? Unless it is a competitive environment I could give a rats ass what other people do with their money in a video game.
And i will say it is 100% correct, and you are the one who is spreading disinformation. So i shall continue to inform.
A simpler strategy is to play the game for free, until you hit a pay wall, switch to another game. The only decision is whether the fun part of the game is free. Faith has nothing to do with anything.
I wonder if he has a job BEYOND posting on these forums as he claims. =P I just don't see how you can have that many posts and maintain a job is all....unless you work FOR a game company.
I'm going to stick with "slam the door on the salesman's foot", thank you.
You are stretching the truth with your "facts" and you have been called on it many times.
To those unaware here are the missing key points to Nari's argument about most people not paying in a F2P:
1. The people not playing typically hop in for a bit, and out. Never seeing too far into the game. The retention rate of free players is abysmal.
2. Most people who actually stick around have spent money on the game.
3. The non-paying players vastly outnumber the paying ones, but again, don't stick around. Game devs/marketing use these numbers even if the person only played for an hour before uninstalling. That 1 hour counts as a player in all honesty, but seems crooked to me.