Why is it that almost every single mmo in existence right now has some sort of pay to win component?
PS2: Weapons.
GW2: Gold through gems
Anarchy Online: You can buy a level 220 and then pay more and gear it out in Ofab.
Firefall: Pay to unlock battleframes.
Diablo 3: Cash shop auction house.
Eve: PLEX
League of Legends: Let's just buy that new OP champion.
Even our "beloved" World of Warcraft: XP potion (Coming soon to a store near you!)
I don't understand why this is necessary. Why can't games be bound to the games themselves? Why is it that we can't just go camp out that cool cosmetic gear instead of pulling out the wallet? Even cosmetic cash shops are a problem. It break immersion. It ruins the whole idea of building up a character (Yes, that includes looks). We all want to feel connected to our characters again, but we keep buying into the "Oh, cosmetic shops are okay. And hey, why shouldn't I be able to pay $200 for a max level character, or $5 for a new weapon, or new class?"
The thing that made MMO's so great in the past is that we had to spend the time to make ourselves look rad. We have been putting cheat codes into these games for the last few years, essentially. Let's just take a look at consoles: What do you remember most fondly? The game you beat without cheating? Or the game you threw all the invincibility codes in and flew through it?
We are cheating ourselves out of great experiences and the companies are eating it up.
I just want an honest mmo company to make a game that isn't about nickel and diming, but about creating an immersive, wonderful experience. When I log into the game and realize I can just throw money at hardships, what is the point?
People have been pushing for a lower cost of entry to online games for 20 years. free to play is one result of that. With free to play the cash shops support the game companies and you have generally two types of players. Freeloaders and Patrons.
The patrons support the game with their money whereas freeloaders just ride the game for free. Patron understand they are supporting the comany and want something in return. Certain freeloaders are vocal about what they want and that is to have all the advantages of the patron without spending a dime. It is not a realistic position.
I am sure nobody thinks about the fact they are supporting the game when they pay for certain things from the cash shop.They just want that shiny thing and pay for it,
Originally posted by anaxime P2W is a misused term. Free to play games still cost a ton of money, and require upkeep just like an other game. If a game was really free to play, who pays to produce it? Who pays for the servers? Do the designers work for free? A game isn't pay to win simply because it has a cash shop, but what really defines it is a game that gives you an advantage over other plays, an advantage only obtainable via real world money. Aside from that, these free to play games need to give incentive for players to use money on the game. Other wise, they don't make money, can't support the game, and can't make any new ones.
Why can't those supporters just pay to support the game and not expect anything in return?Why don't they do that ?After all its what all those people who defend the f2p cash shops seem to say "we just want to support the game".Support it without expecting anything in return if that's what you want.
Why is it that almost every single mmo in existence right now has some sort of pay to win component?
PS2: Weapons.
GW2: Gold through gems
Anarchy Online: You can buy a level 220 and then pay more and gear it out in Ofab.
Firefall: Pay to unlock battleframes.
Diablo 3: Cash shop auction house.
Eve: PLEX
League of Legends: Let's just buy that new OP champion.
Even our "beloved" World of Warcraft: XP potion (Coming soon to a store near you!)
I don't understand why this is necessary. Why can't games be bound to the games themselves? Why is it that we can't just go camp out that cool cosmetic gear instead of pulling out the wallet? Even cosmetic cash shops are a problem. It break immersion. It ruins the whole idea of building up a character (Yes, that includes looks). We all want to feel connected to our characters again, but we keep buying into the "Oh, cosmetic shops are okay. And hey, why shouldn't I be able to pay $200 for a max level character, or $5 for a new weapon, or new class?"
The thing that made MMO's so great in the past is that we had to spend the time to make ourselves look rad. We have been putting cheat codes into these games for the last few years, essentially. Let's just take a look at consoles: What do you remember most fondly? The game you beat without cheating? Or the game you threw all the invincibility codes in and flew through it?
We are cheating ourselves out of great experiences and the companies are eating it up.
I just want an honest mmo company to make a game that isn't about nickel and diming, but about creating an immersive, wonderful experience. When I log into the game and realize I can just throw money at hardships, what is the point?
People have been pushing for a lower cost of entry to online games for 20 years. free to play is one result of that. With free to play the cash shops support the game companies and you have generally two types of players. Freeloaders and Patrons.
The patrons support the game with their money whereas freeloaders just ride the game for free. Patron understand they are supporting the comany and want something in return. Certain freeloaders are vocal about what they want and that is to have all the advantages of the patron without spending a dime. It is not a realistic position.
I am sure nobody thinks about the fact they are supporting the game when they pay for certain things from the cash shop.They just want that shiny thing and pay for it,
They know they do and want stuff in return. You get what you pay for. Idiots dont' understand it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
There isnt even duel or spar in GW2.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
It's not pay to win in my view if the price is so high that it isn't winning. Personally I would buy me a decent car or a boat rather than a digital sword . /shrug
Price is not high by any means for the person buying it.
And buying everything except legendary isnt even that expensive.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
There isnt even duel or spar in GW2.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
You are aware World of Warcraft has had a pet you could buy in the shop for money and sell it in-game for gold for quite a few years already, right? If not: Move along person who sees only what he/she desires to see.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
There isnt even duel or spar in GW2.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
You are aware World of Warcraft has had a pet you could buy in the shop for money and sell it in-game for gold for quite a few years already, right? If not: Move along person who sees only what he/she desires to see.
I have no idea why you quote me. I have never played WoW so I dont comment on that game. I comment on games I know the best.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
There isnt even duel or spar in GW2.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
You are aware World of Warcraft has had a pet you could buy in the shop for money and sell it in-game for gold for quite a few years already, right? If not: Move along person who sees only what he/she desires to see.
I have no idea why you quote me. I have never played WoW so I dont comment on that game. I comment on games I know the best.
Because commenting in a vacuum is akin to trying to hit a needle with another needle while you're on Earth and your target is in close orbit of Uranus. Knowing best has nothing to do with commenting on payment models, knowledge of the gradual evolution of cash shops and their steady integration in all games from every payment model out there is a requirement otherwise you just come off looking like a flame baiter to anyone with a better grasp of the subject.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
There isnt even duel or spar in GW2.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
You are aware World of Warcraft has had a pet you could buy in the shop for money and sell it in-game for gold for quite a few years already, right? If not: Move along person who sees only what he/she desires to see.
I have no idea why you quote me. I have never played WoW so I dont comment on that game. I comment on games I know the best.
Because commenting in a vacuum is akin to trying to hit a needle with another needle while you're on Earth and your target is in close orbit of Uranus. Knowing best has nothing to do with commenting on payment models, knowledge of the gradual evolution of cash shops and their steady integration in all games from every payment model out there is a requirement otherwise you just come off looking like a flame baiter to anyone with a better grasp of the subject.
If you have anything to say, you can try to prove I was wrong in my initial post. If not, there is no need to spam here with nonsense that do not help this subject. You can keep blabbering on should you want to, but keep in mind I am right about the payment model of GW2. No empty words you produce here can change that.
Originally posted by Bootez Eve isn't P2W? Yeah, go buy some PLEX, sell it, and tell me that didn't just help fund your new couple ships.
You should probably play the game before making (stupid) assumptions. Buying anything you can't afford in-game will only end in tears for you.
As for P2W, I don't know why people can't accept it - it's here to stay. Either in low or high amounts, nothing makes a player spend more in a game than giving him an advantage on a vertical progression game. The goal is to keep it at a minimum level.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
Seriously, stop the fanboyism.
Currently in GW2, The Legendary Greatsword Eternity is 2,999 gold. If $50 gets you about 10 gold, you would have to be pretty "nuts" to buy it with real money. Purchasing everything for every character would make even Bill Gates flinch a bit.
It does not matter whatsoever what the price is. People who use cash shops have the money and you would be surprised what one can buy in cash shop. I am not saying people buing it are nuts, because its a lot of money for us but not for them. It still is pay to win. If in gw2 is only skin progression, it is the easiest game to label as p2w because most of the skins are avaible on AH for gold, therefore gems, therefore real money.
Someone else who's clueless about what is P2W... If you think GW2 is pay to win, go ahead and go buy all the stuff ingame and try to duel me and win, we'll see if you are able to win with the stuff you bought for real cash while I laugh at you for spending real money to only fail to win.
There isnt even duel or spar in GW2.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
You are aware World of Warcraft has had a pet you could buy in the shop for money and sell it in-game for gold for quite a few years already, right? If not: Move along person who sees only what he/she desires to see.
I have no idea why you quote me. I have never played WoW so I dont comment on that game. I comment on games I know the best.
Because commenting in a vacuum is akin to trying to hit a needle with another needle while you're on Earth and your target is in close orbit of Uranus. Knowing best has nothing to do with commenting on payment models, knowledge of the gradual evolution of cash shops and their steady integration in all games from every payment model out there is a requirement otherwise you just come off looking like a flame baiter to anyone with a better grasp of the subject.
If you have anything to say, you can try to prove I was wrong in my initial post. If not, there is no need to spam here with nonsense that do not help this subject. You can keep blabbering on should you want to, but keep in mind I am right about the payment model of GW2. No empty words you produce here can change that.
So you are flame baiting, good to know. Either way right or wrong isn't the issue, it's pointing to one game and going "that's wrong!" when other games with a monthly fee have similar systems in place. GW2 may allow you to "win" by investing allot of money into gems but it is a B2P game ergo it isn't as worse as a P2P game doing the same damn thing ( EVE doesn't count here because buying isk via plex is not going to increase your power in any way shape or form, in that game knowledge is power ). Now you can continue pointing to the guy that's shitting in your path if you want but I'll be pointing to the guy that's shitting in your food.
The main reason most people play was to get a legendary. You dont need to get it by play time, you can buy it off AH for gold. Or you can buy GEMS from cash shop, convert to gold and there you go, legendary. The only goal of the game achieved and you are done. You won.
Needless to say, you can fully equip your every character with your real money. OR you can get to level cap without doing anything, just spend your real money, get craft mats you are lvl 80.
[mod edit]
Huh... I guess those corpses I've stood over in WvW who were wielding legendaries didn't pay enough then. Oh wait... Legendary weapons have the exact same stats as exotics, just different skins.
Levels are also a lot less significant in GW2, being level 80 simply means you're level 80. Yay, you've caught up with everyone else, and unless you've learned to play your profession well enough it doesn't mean a thing.
Pay to win, please. Learn about GW2, learn what pay to win means, then hush. In no particular order.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
With what gear? The exact same stat gear that I crafted for my alts to equip them? Hell, you can't even by the ascended tier items for gold, and they have marginally better stats than exotics.
Another myth... you don't need exotics (even though they're dirt cheap and regularly drop from mobs, easy to craft, etc.) to beat someone in exotics. You can win in greens, rares... skill is far greater than gear in GW2.
Stick with arguing about games you've actually played and know... GW2 is obviously not one of them.
I always like to chime in on threads like this... First to ask if i can have what the OP is smoking... because it seems to be some good stuff.
Second i like to point out a game that use to be 100% P2W (now it is just 60% at best.. thus not really pay to win any more) and that is Need for Speed: World... In this little gem of a game all the best cars used to be cash-shop only. and not only that it had a slight power-creep (i think the word is) so the new cash car in each tier tended to bump the last one down a notch.
That is p2w... BLOODY XP POTS ARE NOT P2W... In a game almost 10 years old and with 4 massive expansions out that is called SANITY... as in what you will not be loosing from a boring ass grind.
Buy PvP gear that is 0.5 of a teir better then anything you can earn in game... That is P2W... Taking a shortcut with gems is not P2W....
Using micro transactions can be seen as lazy.. Yes.. But pretty much all games listed by the OP is in no way shape or form P2W... I wish the OP would play a game that is really P2W so he/she/it would know the difference.
Reading a couple posts by the OP and I realized that the OP has no valid point at all .
To the OP if anyone is marginally better than you by working the system to their advantage, then its Pay to Win.
I have meet many players online that is very good at what they do, I remember a Guild mate that can play the Auction house to his advantage each time, and getting massive In game Currency than one can farm, by knowing when to buy low and sell high and what items are valuable and hoard them.
I also know of players that can craft within the first week and is able to become the highest level crafter in the server.
Are they also considered Pay to Win, cause they are paying with their time and knowledge and getting the edge against everyone else.
Min and Maxers in OP's mind are also Pay to Win because they can maximize their buff's potential, they have done their research and is getting 1-10 % more off their EXP buffs more than the other guy. So because they are smarter , they are Pay to Win right.
Games aren't made to be equal, someone will always be able to beat you. So stop living in the shallow well and realize that there are just better players out there than you.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I dont know if I've ever played a p2w game to be honest...Ive played Anarchy and if some players can somehow buy a 220 then good for them but it doesnt affect me any......My basic approach to just about every f2p game is I dont look in the item shop.
Why is it that almost every single mmo in existence right now has some sort of pay to win component?
PS2: Weapons.
GW2: Gold through gems
Anarchy Online: You can buy a level 220 and then pay more and gear it out in Ofab.
Firefall: Pay to unlock battleframes.
Diablo 3: Cash shop auction house.
Eve: PLEX
League of Legends: Let's just buy that new OP champion.
Even our "beloved" World of Warcraft: XP potion (Coming soon to a store near you!)
I don't understand why this is necessary. Why can't games be bound to the games themselves? Why is it that we can't just go camp out that cool cosmetic gear instead of pulling out the wallet? Even cosmetic cash shops are a problem. It break immersion. It ruins the whole idea of building up a character (Yes, that includes looks). We all want to feel connected to our characters again, but we keep buying into the "Oh, cosmetic shops are okay. And hey, why shouldn't I be able to pay $200 for a max level character, or $5 for a new weapon, or new class?"
The thing that made MMO's so great in the past is that we had to spend the time to make ourselves look rad. We have been putting cheat codes into these games for the last few years, essentially. Let's just take a look at consoles: What do you remember most fondly? The game you beat without cheating? Or the game you threw all the invincibility codes in and flew through it?
We are cheating ourselves out of great experiences and the companies are eating it up.
I just want an honest mmo company to make a game that isn't about nickel and diming, but about creating an immersive, wonderful experience. When I log into the game and realize I can just throw money at hardships, what is the point?
I'm going to say something that will be unheard of to you. It will probably blow your mind because it is completely beyond any other statement you have ever heard in your life.
How YOU play the game, is not dictated by how others play the game...
That is all, here's a broom to clean up your blown mind with.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
With what gear? The exact same stat gear that I crafted for my alts to equip them? Hell, you can't even by the ascended tier items for gold, and they have marginally better stats than exotics.
Another myth... you don't need exotics (even though they're dirt cheap and regularly drop from mobs, easy to craft, etc.) to beat someone in exotics. You can win in greens, rares... skill is far greater than gear in GW2.
Stick with arguing about games you've actually played and know... GW2 is obviously not one of them.
he has no idea what P2W is, and of course he doesnt even play GW2 either.
He just want to follow the popular hate wagon and be popular like the other kids.
Comments
I am sure nobody thinks about the fact they are supporting the game when they pay for certain things from the cash shop.They just want that shiny thing and pay for it,
Why can't those supporters just pay to support the game and not expect anything in return?Why don't they do that ?After all its what all those people who defend the f2p cash shops seem to say "we just want to support the game".Support it without expecting anything in return if that's what you want.
They know they do and want stuff in return. You get what you pay for. Idiots dont' understand it.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
There isnt even duel or spar in GW2.
And yes, it is p2w since with this gear a person can beat you easily or with training. If a person does not have the gear, he will never beat you. Therefore win.
Move along, fanboy.
Price is not high by any means for the person buying it.
And buying everything except legendary isnt even that expensive.
So I dont know what are you talking about.
You are aware World of Warcraft has had a pet you could buy in the shop for money and sell it in-game for gold for quite a few years already, right? If not: Move along person who sees only what he/she desires to see.
I have no idea why you quote me. I have never played WoW so I dont comment on that game. I comment on games I know the best.
Because commenting in a vacuum is akin to trying to hit a needle with another needle while you're on Earth and your target is in close orbit of Uranus. Knowing best has nothing to do with commenting on payment models, knowledge of the gradual evolution of cash shops and their steady integration in all games from every payment model out there is a requirement otherwise you just come off looking like a flame baiter to anyone with a better grasp of the subject.
If you have anything to say, you can try to prove I was wrong in my initial post. If not, there is no need to spam here with nonsense that do not help this subject. You can keep blabbering on should you want to, but keep in mind I am right about the payment model of GW2. No empty words you produce here can change that.
You should probably play the game before making (stupid) assumptions. Buying anything you can't afford in-game will only end in tears for you.
As for P2W, I don't know why people can't accept it - it's here to stay. Either in low or high amounts, nothing makes a player spend more in a game than giving him an advantage on a vertical progression game. The goal is to keep it at a minimum level.
So you are flame baiting, good to know. Either way right or wrong isn't the issue, it's pointing to one game and going "that's wrong!" when other games with a monthly fee have similar systems in place. GW2 may allow you to "win" by investing allot of money into gems but it is a B2P game ergo it isn't as worse as a P2P game doing the same damn thing ( EVE doesn't count here because buying isk via plex is not going to increase your power in any way shape or form, in that game knowledge is power ). Now you can continue pointing to the guy that's shitting in your path if you want but I'll be pointing to the guy that's shitting in your food.
You don't understand
luxury is not power
your viewpoint is flawed
give us something new
we demand innovation;
this is not the same
Huh... I guess those corpses I've stood over in WvW who were wielding legendaries didn't pay enough then. Oh wait... Legendary weapons have the exact same stats as exotics, just different skins.
Levels are also a lot less significant in GW2, being level 80 simply means you're level 80. Yay, you've caught up with everyone else, and unless you've learned to play your profession well enough it doesn't mean a thing.
Pay to win, please. Learn about GW2, learn what pay to win means, then hush. In no particular order.
Oderint, dum metuant.
With what gear? The exact same stat gear that I crafted for my alts to equip them? Hell, you can't even by the ascended tier items for gold, and they have marginally better stats than exotics.
Another myth... you don't need exotics (even though they're dirt cheap and regularly drop from mobs, easy to craft, etc.) to beat someone in exotics. You can win in greens, rares... skill is far greater than gear in GW2.
Stick with arguing about games you've actually played and know... GW2 is obviously not one of them.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I always like to chime in on threads like this... First to ask if i can have what the OP is smoking... because it seems to be some good stuff.
Second i like to point out a game that use to be 100% P2W (now it is just 60% at best.. thus not really pay to win any more) and that is Need for Speed: World... In this little gem of a game all the best cars used to be cash-shop only. and not only that it had a slight power-creep (i think the word is) so the new cash car in each tier tended to bump the last one down a notch.
That is p2w... BLOODY XP POTS ARE NOT P2W... In a game almost 10 years old and with 4 massive expansions out that is called SANITY... as in what you will not be loosing from a boring ass grind.
Buy PvP gear that is 0.5 of a teir better then anything you can earn in game... That is P2W... Taking a shortcut with gems is not P2W....
Using micro transactions can be seen as lazy.. Yes.. But pretty much all games listed by the OP is in no way shape or form P2W... I wish the OP would play a game that is really P2W so he/she/it would know the difference.
This have been a good conversation
Reading a couple posts by the OP and I realized that the OP has no valid point at all .
To the OP if anyone is marginally better than you by working the system to their advantage, then its Pay to Win.
I have meet many players online that is very good at what they do, I remember a Guild mate that can play the Auction house to his advantage each time, and getting massive In game Currency than one can farm, by knowing when to buy low and sell high and what items are valuable and hoard them.
I also know of players that can craft within the first week and is able to become the highest level crafter in the server.
Are they also considered Pay to Win, cause they are paying with their time and knowledge and getting the edge against everyone else.
Min and Maxers in OP's mind are also Pay to Win because they can maximize their buff's potential, they have done their research and is getting 1-10 % more off their EXP buffs more than the other guy. So because they are smarter , they are Pay to Win right.
Games aren't made to be equal, someone will always be able to beat you. So stop living in the shallow well and realize that there are just better players out there than you.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I'm going to say something that will be unheard of to you. It will probably blow your mind because it is completely beyond any other statement you have ever heard in your life.
How YOU play the game, is not dictated by how others play the game...
That is all, here's a broom to clean up your blown mind with.
he has no idea what P2W is, and of course he doesnt even play GW2 either.
He just want to follow the popular hate wagon and be popular like the other kids.