Having instances is not that big an issue, but if they over do it yes it makes a mockery of the term MMO. Having a "world" that consists of a ribbon of land connecting somewhat bigger hubs is more fake to me. And so is having many players but having them only interact every fantasy blue moon.
Glad to have you on board OP, you are a tad late speaking up at the MMO party, but good to have you on board.
Having instances is not that big an issue, but if they over do it yes it makes a mockery of the term MMO. Having a "world" that consists of a ribbon of land connecting somewhat bigger hubs is more fake to me. And so is having many players but having them only interact every fantasy blue moon.
Glad to have you on board OP, you are a tad late speaking up at the MMO party, but good to have you on board.
or they can just make good instanced games, and called it something other than MMOs.
Just because i live alone in my condo ( and spend a lot of time alone in it ) doesn't mean that I don't live in a massive world inhabited by billions of people. I don't need or want all those people to hang out in my room.
The same is true for MMO, what makes them a massively-multiplayer experience is that the world is inhabited by thousands of other players. I never need, nor want them all on my screen or in my zone. It's enough to know that we share the same world and that i can go interact with those thousands of people IF I CHOOSE to do so. And i do choose to do it, sometimes i choose to intereact with 1 person by duoing, sometimes with 20 peeople by raiding, sometimes with 200 by running through a busy city. And everything in between.
I do not need 500,000 people following me everywhere i go in the world for the sake of proving that they're there. I know they're there.
I've been playing MMOs for 15 years and this perspective hasn't changed.
One thing i do hate is worlds that are split up into servers that don't connect with each other. It annoys me that there is another exact copy of the world that i cannot travel to, with people that i cannot interact with. Aside from that - instancing, phasing, zones, it's all fine by me - as long as i can go anywhere and interact with anyone in the same persistent world.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
The era you're referring to is not new, it's fairly contemporary at this point, and is composed of games like modern WoW, Rift, modern EQ1/EQ2, SW:TOR, Wildstar, finally, FFXIV.
The new era looks to be more like GW2, EQN, and a crapload of Kickstarter games, most of which don't have that much instancing.
So any instanced content within an MMORPG disqualifies it as being an MMO? Really? Interesting logic there.
EQ1= Not an MMORPG
FFXI= Not an MMORPG
Whooops two of the most iconic and memorable "old school" MMORPG's are "fake MMORPG's". Last time I checked I can have a hell of a lot more than 20 people on screen at once, in cities, doing content, etc. in FFXIV in an instance or open world.
This is to all of you hardcore MMORPG fans and to those who think they have been playing MMORPG's.
By pure definition MMORPG means "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game." When I think of the word's "Massively Multiplayer" I envision more than 5 - 20 players having the ability to be in the same place at the same time. I have such a hard time understanding why and how most of the game companies get away with forcing these so called MMORPG's down our throats. Most of them are barley worthy of the word Multiplayer more or less Massively Multiplayer. I wont and shouldnt have to name them because I am sure if you have ever actually played a true MMO you can tell the difference from these "Instance" based basically less than massively multiplayer online role playing games. I am enraged by the lack of social and economic standards that are sub par to even the earliest generation's of online gaming, which most of whom never claimed the word Massively Multiplayer.
What are we allowing our beloved gaming community to become?
Why are we allowing the fabled MMORPG slogan to be pasted on every barley multiplayer role playing game that comes out?
We as gamers are the ones responsible for this by allowing the game genre we love the most to be mislabeled misrepresented and exploited by every game company that wants to milk the joy straight from our gamer hearts and turn it into cash.
This is the New Era of Fake MMORPG's and I seriously doubt its going anywhere any time soon.
Well said.
The answer....don't spend your money on deficient games.
MMORPG's are dead and have been so for quite some time. I use to rage about it, now I really dont care. The cancer that is the general population of humanity will consume and ruin everything you love about a niche genre, goods, game or idea.
The easiest example is the internet itself. Ten years ago the vast majority of internet users were intelligent people having or enjoying things that were considered 'uncool' or 'nerd shit'. Now, your grandma has facebook and your 7 year old brother is telling people to sukz his cawk in online games.
In the name of money will all be ruined, raped and destroyed beyond recognition.
Welcome to humanity.
Let me tell you a secret - in a capitalist economy, everything is out to make money - EVERYTHING. You don't make money, you die - plain and simple. You act like the first MMO's were made for the good of humanity, not for what they really are, money makers. you have a very naive look at it.
10 years ago, on the internet, nerdy kids (not neccessarily smart) were online (telling people to 'Sukz his Cawk' ) not intelligent people, and Porn was online - that was the biggest driver of the internet. Please stop spewing revisionist facts.
That's wonderful, but it is a pointless comment in mixed economies which happen to be the main economic system of a hell lot of countries.
Whooops two of the most iconic and memorable "old school" MMORPG's are "fake MMORPG's". Last time I checked I can have a hell of a lot more than 20 people on screen at once, in cities, doing content, etc. in FFXIV in an instance or open world.
Those are just semantics anyway. I care much more if a game is fun (to me), then if it is a MMO.
So any instanced content within an MMORPG disqualifies it as being an MMO? Really? Interesting logic there.
EQ1= Not an MMORPG
FFXI= Not an MMORPG
Why are you telling me this? I'm not the one who started the topic with "The New Era of Fake MMORPG's".
I am just specifying that this era isn't new and it's also going away.
That being said, heavy instancing definitely detracts from the MMO element no matter how you spin it. It doesn't matter how many players you support outside if everyone is stuck inside in 20 people chunks 95% of the time and that's where all the content is.
Also, I specified modern EQ1. Original EQ1 had no instances really. Then they added some later. Vanilla WoW had plenty to do in the world, and before you went to one of those instances you'd have to do stuff in the world. These days people just sitin the city and queue up.If people play a game like a lobby game, yes, I'd wager it isn't really an MMO at that point, more of a lobby game with a massive chatroom (see Guild Wars 1). There's nothing particularly wrong with that per se, but 20 people, even 40 people, in an instance, isn't massive.
FFXIV in particular is adding lots of things to do in the _world_ and is mixing activities throughout levels. I.e., it's actually trying to solve the issues so it's not directly part of the problem even though it has instanced dungeons and raids. It's when dungeons/raids become basically the only thing you ever do when it becomes a lobby game and the whole persistent world was a waste of development time.
If you want to see an MMO that works properly look at EVE.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
That being said, heavy instancing definitely detracts from the MMO element no matter how you spin it. It doesn't matter how many players you support outside if everyone is stuck inside in 20 people chunks 95% of the time and that's where all the content is.
Just make it fun, and don't call it a MMO. Problem solved.
Lots of angry folks here, I think the OP hit a nerve. He is of course correct.
Hopefully after enough game companies have gone out of business, a company will come along and make a real game instead of the shallow flavor-of-the-month crap of today. Until then, do what the rest of us do; take a break from gaming or play single player.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
MMORPG's are dead and have been so for quite some time. I use to rage about it, now I really dont care. The cancer that is the general population of humanity will consume and ruin everything you love about a niche genre, goods, game or idea.
The easiest example is the internet itself. Ten years ago the vast majority of internet users were intelligent people having or enjoying things that were considered 'uncool' or 'nerd shit'. Now, your grandma has facebook and your 7 year old brother is telling people to sukz his cawk in online games.
In the name of money will all be ruined, raped and destroyed beyond recognition.
MMORPG's are dead and have been so for quite some time. I use to rage about it, now I really dont care. The cancer that is the general population of humanity will consume and ruin everything you love about a niche genre, goods, game or idea.
The easiest example is the internet itself. Ten years ago the vast majority of internet users were intelligent people having or enjoying things that were considered 'uncool' or 'nerd shit'. Now, your grandma has facebook and your 7 year old brother is telling people to sukz his cawk in online games.
In the name of money will all be ruined, raped and destroyed beyond recognition.
Welcome to humanity.
LOL!
Actually what karmath is remembering is the late 1990s up until 2001-2002, 10 years ago was when the internet started becoming mainstream (my older brother is a pre-mainstream net user).
Also Karmath I am one of the guys who came in the new wave with the grandmas and the 7 year olds and guess what? Bachelor in Plasma Physics, looking to go in the autumn to do a Master's Program in Ion Physics and Applied Physics and I aim to get a PhD in Fusion Physics by the time I hit 30. Generalizations are fun until someone makes you look like an idiot (could be done even without my example as you're a clear example of how the internet community wasn't that good even before it hit the mainstream).
This is to all of you hardcore MMORPG fans and to those who think they have been playing MMORPG's.
By pure definition MMORPG means "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game." When I think of the word's "Massively Multiplayer" I envision more than 5 - 20 players having the ability to be in the same place at the same time. I have such a hard time understanding why and how most of the game companies get away with forcing these so called MMORPG's down our throats. Most of them are barley worthy of the word Multiplayer more or less Massively Multiplayer. I wont and shouldnt have to name them because I am sure if you have ever actually played a true MMO you can tell the difference from these "Instance" based basically less than massively multiplayer online role playing games. I am enraged by the lack of social and economic standards that are sub par to even the earliest generation's of online gaming, which most of whom never claimed the word Massively Multiplayer.
What are we allowing our beloved gaming community to become?
Why are we allowing the fabled MMORPG slogan to be pasted on every barley multiplayer role playing game that comes out?
We as gamers are the ones responsible for this by allowing the game genre we love the most to be mislabeled misrepresented and exploited by every game company that wants to milk the joy straight from our gamer hearts and turn it into cash.
This is the New Era of Fake MMORPG's and I seriously doubt its going anywhere any time soon.
Are you telling would love to see in 10m2 3865 players at same time?
Just because i live alone in my condo ( and spend a lot of time alone in it ) doesn't mean that I don't live in a massive world inhabited by billions of people. I don't need or want all those people to hang out in my room.
The same is true for MMO, what makes them a massively-multiplayer experience is that the world is inhabited by thousands of other players. I never need, nor want them all on my screen or in my zone. It's enough to know that we share the same world and that i can go interact with those thousands of people IF I CHOOSE to do so. And i do choose to do it, sometimes i choose to intereact with 1 person by duoing, sometimes with 20 peeople by raiding, sometimes with 200 by running through a busy city. And everything in between.
I do not need 500,000 people following me everywhere i go in the world for the sake of proving that they're there. I know they're there.
I've been playing MMOs for 15 years and this perspective hasn't changed.
One thing i do hate is worlds that are split up into servers that don't connect with each other. It annoys me that there is another exact copy of the world that i cannot travel to, with people that i cannot interact with. Aside from that - instancing, phasing, zones, it's all fine by me - as long as i can go anywhere and interact with anyone in the same persistent world.
By this definition every solo game is multiplayer too. Because there are millions of other people playing solitaire out there in the world, solitaire is actually a Massive Multiplayer game. You can see pictures of other players on your screen if you want to or even videos:
You say you do sometimes connect with other players online, well that's what makes it online Massive Multiplayer. Just having other players online doing similar things to yourself does not make it a MMO.
By this definition every solo game is multiplayer too. Because there are millions of other people playing solitaire out there in the world, solitaire is actually a Massive Multiplayer game. You can see pictures of other players on your screen if you want to or even videos:
This example shows the fallacy of focusing too much on semantics, which this site is constantly falling into.
So what if under some classification, solitaire is a massive multiplayer game. It does not change how fun the game is. It does not change whether it has group play.
MMO is just a label for a group of games. Nothing more nothing less. It is by common use.
Originally posted by Scot By this definition every solo game is multiplayer too. Because there are millions of other people playing solitaire out there in the world, solitaire is actually a Massive Multiplayer game. You can see pictures of other players on your screen if you want to or even videos:
OMG he's right, and Solitaire should be in the MMORPG list. Hype meter 0.0
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Scot By this definition every solo game is multiplayer too. Because there are millions of other people playing solitaire out there in the world, solitaire is actually a Massive Multiplayer game. You can see pictures of other players on your screen if you want to or even videos:
OMG he's right, and Solitaire should be in the MMORPG list. Hype meter 0.0
Comments
Having instances is not that big an issue, but if they over do it yes it makes a mockery of the term MMO. Having a "world" that consists of a ribbon of land connecting somewhat bigger hubs is more fake to me. And so is having many players but having them only interact every fantasy blue moon.
Glad to have you on board OP, you are a tad late speaking up at the MMO party, but good to have you on board.
Fake mmorpg? And who determines what is what? You?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lHgbbM9pu4
or they can just make good instanced games, and called it something other than MMOs.
Just because i live alone in my condo ( and spend a lot of time alone in it ) doesn't mean that I don't live in a massive world inhabited by billions of people. I don't need or want all those people to hang out in my room.
The same is true for MMO, what makes them a massively-multiplayer experience is that the world is inhabited by thousands of other players. I never need, nor want them all on my screen or in my zone. It's enough to know that we share the same world and that i can go interact with those thousands of people IF I CHOOSE to do so. And i do choose to do it, sometimes i choose to intereact with 1 person by duoing, sometimes with 20 peeople by raiding, sometimes with 200 by running through a busy city. And everything in between.
I do not need 500,000 people following me everywhere i go in the world for the sake of proving that they're there. I know they're there.
I've been playing MMOs for 15 years and this perspective hasn't changed.
One thing i do hate is worlds that are split up into servers that don't connect with each other. It annoys me that there is another exact copy of the world that i cannot travel to, with people that i cannot interact with. Aside from that - instancing, phasing, zones, it's all fine by me - as long as i can go anywhere and interact with anyone in the same persistent world.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
So any instanced content within an MMORPG disqualifies it as being an MMO? Really? Interesting logic there.
EQ1= Not an MMORPG
FFXI= Not an MMORPG
Whooops two of the most iconic and memorable "old school" MMORPG's are "fake MMORPG's". Last time I checked I can have a hell of a lot more than 20 people on screen at once, in cities, doing content, etc. in FFXIV in an instance or open world.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Well said.
The answer....don't spend your money on deficient games.
Me..I'm playing an 11 year old subscription game.
That's wonderful, but it is a pointless comment in mixed economies which happen to be the main economic system of a hell lot of countries.
Those are just semantics anyway. I care much more if a game is fun (to me), then if it is a MMO.
No i don't.
Me .. i am playing F2P games. So i will never spend my money on deficient games.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Just make it fun, and don't call it a MMO. Problem solved.
Lots of angry folks here, I think the OP hit a nerve. He is of course correct.
Hopefully after enough game companies have gone out of business, a company will come along and make a real game instead of the shallow flavor-of-the-month crap of today. Until then, do what the rest of us do; take a break from gaming or play single player.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
You got them.
Or as i would call it .. progress.
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
LOL!
conspiracy
the more you spend time into games, the merrier you spend on other things.
so the government gives money to the big companys to produce bad mmos.
things are so easy guys!
/Agreed
www.HARMguild.com
Actually what karmath is remembering is the late 1990s up until 2001-2002, 10 years ago was when the internet started becoming mainstream (my older brother is a pre-mainstream net user).
Also Karmath I am one of the guys who came in the new wave with the grandmas and the 7 year olds and guess what? Bachelor in Plasma Physics, looking to go in the autumn to do a Master's Program in Ion Physics and Applied Physics and I aim to get a PhD in Fusion Physics by the time I hit 30. Generalizations are fun until someone makes you look like an idiot (could be done even without my example as you're a clear example of how the internet community wasn't that good even before it hit the mainstream).
Are you telling would love to see in 10m2 3865 players at same time?
By this definition every solo game is multiplayer too. Because there are millions of other people playing solitaire out there in the world, solitaire is actually a Massive Multiplayer game. You can see pictures of other players on your screen if you want to or even videos:
http://stilllifequickheart.tumblr.com/post/13552631757/john-adamson-patience-19th-century Another person playing Solitaire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cJsXgE2aCw A video of someone playing Solitaire
You say you do sometimes connect with other players online, well that's what makes it online Massive Multiplayer. Just having other players online doing similar things to yourself does not make it a MMO.
This example shows the fallacy of focusing too much on semantics, which this site is constantly falling into.
So what if under some classification, solitaire is a massive multiplayer game. It does not change how fun the game is. It does not change whether it has group play.
MMO is just a label for a group of games. Nothing more nothing less. It is by common use.
OMG he's right, and Solitaire should be in the MMORPG list. Hype meter 0.0
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
its not an rpg though