Originally posted by Nanfoodle Dave said EQN combat is not like GW2, this makes it sounds more like GW2. He better get that response to us soon. Cuse if there is no tanking and healing at all. Im not interested.
Whilst initial announcements left open the possibility that they had some sort of new structure to combat.
Every quote, statement and release since that point has confirmed their commitment to removing the need for any group to have any class.
This makes all 40 classes (+ any others they add later) POINTLESS
Collecting them will be like collecting different colored robes that all do the same thing.
It is a shame, with so many promising things in the tool set they have that this has been the choice.
For those of you who have responded to this sort of criticism by suggesting you can still play a healer or a tank but ...the game is so great you will just not NEED to have heals/tanks/CC/support.
Think about this...
In any other game that has a structure to combat (including games that have action combat) HOW would you make an encounter that no longer needs heals/tanks/CC/support.
I will tell you how.
You make its so damn easy that a group of DPS can dot it without those other classes
At which point DPS is the only class build worth having.
There is NO magic bullet to this.
Arguing that other games that tried and failed and that EQN will get it right... is like arguing that National Socialism was a great idea its just that everyone who tried it was stupid.
It has fundamental flaws in the IDEA, not the execution.
Q. "To clear it up once and for all, are there dedicated healers and tanks or it now more Guild Wars 2 slash The Secret World? Is the Holy Trinity dead?"
A. "Well, I can answer that to some degree. It's.. " Michaels begins, slowly. ".. the dedicated roles of the holy trinity are not going to be present in Everquest Next. There will be different classes and different build that are angled towards some of the roles, so there might be a class or a build or a class that is more tank-ish but you don't NEED that person to accomplish that goal and content. You can go in there without having somebody who is the stereotypical tank."
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
Klug interjects, "The combat mechanics work very differently. "
" - Yeah. The combat's very different. There's not the common threat mechanic that people see in MMOs where there is somebody who can generate enough aggro that the NPC will never ever turn away from them." Michael finishes
19:18 elaboration on removal of trinity, Dev's talking about their experiences with GW2 and NW and how they are moving beyond what those games have done
It sounds like you are listening to more how you feel it will be rather than how the Dev's have explained how it will be. That's fine. You also have the opportunity to see for yourself once it comes out, or wait for more info as it's later released.
GW2 had no roles, it was support/DPS or just DPS and the support was so light you could never call any class a healer or a tank. Teams turned into zergs and doing a dungeon run was a team running from one boss to the next and not playing at all. This was so painful to play my wife now only log into GW2 to play WvW. If there is no strong roles in EQN I am going to need a ground breaking new combat system that makes teams work together and not be all about twitch dodge to stay a live. Dodge in a MMO was fun for a while till you had to hit it every 3rd click of the keyboard. Where is my Everquest I have loved for so long? Do I have to wait another 14 years for a new EQ game to give me what I need as a gamer?
Short answer... NO
There are MANY other great MMOs coming out that are NOT making this mistake. Both you, me and many others will have to get out MMO fix in some other game
Back to the OP and the interview ( a very good interview I think)
One thing I took from it was "Voxel farm"
Go look them up, the sooner more games use this tech the better for all of us.
It sounds like you are listening to more how you feel it will be rather than how the Dev's have explained how it will be. That's fine. You also have the opportunity to see for yourself once it comes out, or wait for more info as it's later released.
I am reading, listening and looking at everything they have to say.
Given its a long time away and not even close to nailed down we are ALL going on how we FEEL it will be...
BASED ON WHAT WE SEE HEAR AND READ.
Its not the comments on the trinity that tell us what is going on .
Its the comment that you will not NEED any particular class...ANY CLASS
so... full group of DPS will do, end of story, end to theory crafting.
Because if you can make a group out of "sort of tankish" toons and sort of healish toons and sort of CCish toons...
BUT DONT NEED ANY OF THEM
the DPS group will WALK through the content/environment/pvp/everything.
Originally posted by evilastro Hah I knew they would have owpvp. They are just trying to build pve hype before announcing it. Tbh the game just wouldn't work without it.
I'm interested to know just why the game wouldn't work without PvP? If mobs are coded to be "smarter" on a sliding scale and have classes themselves (assuming the abilities as well?), needing PvP for exciting and challenging content seems to be less. Add on top of that a constant risk/reward factor for what you do in the world. Unless it's the destructible environments, which IMO the ability to knock things over is only one of many great things about the world being made of "sand".
I'm usually involved in PvP because it's the least boring thing to do, it can be quite exciting. Since hearing all the details about EQN it's been the farthest from my mind because there seems to be enough excitement to be had already.
I also PvP because I find that it's the least boring thing to do. Mainly because i like going around the world instead of staying in instances and quest mobs give no challenge... at all...
But the other side of the coin is: If Orc bandits (or whatever) are now smart enough to ambush you unexpectedly, provide challenging combat and with a multiclassing+combat system blurring the line between PVP and PVE skills (so a PVE player isn't helpless because he just has aggro, taunts and no CC).... What's the problem with OWPVP? Why would anyone have such an extreme allergic reaction to it?
Hopefully they'll actually design the game for PVP (with some rewards, the ability to attack towns without broken OP guards, no flying mounts) and just switch off those features on PVE servers.
Originally posted by Montaronx Boats? Can we make them too in landmark? That would be so awesome
Q. "Er. Boats. Are there any oceans planned for launch? Boats?"
A Michaels grins. "We haven't discussed any of that with the public yet. So, look for that in the future."
I thought this question was a good one for a couple of reasons. Vanguard's crafting could allow you to make a boat and sail around the world. Is this what we will see as part of the crafting system? It could also just mean a form of travel. If that is the case, would be return to the EQ style of boat with its lengthy timer, or would it just be a clicky NPC with a faster travel system?
I'd love to see crafted water transportation. I only dipped my toes into Vanguard so I didn't get to see that. If that isn't the case, I would also like to see the older form of boat travel come back, a la EQ. "BOAT!!" , anyone? It made you feel like you were getting ready to go on a journey, and the ride itself was rather fun.
It sounds like you are listening to more how you feel it will be rather than how the Dev's have explained how it will be. That's fine. You also have the opportunity to see for yourself once it comes out, or wait for more info as it's later released.
I am reading, listening and looking at everything they have to say.
Given its a long time away and not even close to nailed down we are ALL going on how we FEEL it will be...
BASED ON WHAT WE SEE HEAR AND READ.
Its not the comments on the trinity that tell us what is going on .
Its the comment that you will not NEED any particular class...ANY CLASS
so... full group of DPS will do, end of story, end to theory crafting.
Because if you can make a group out of "sort of tankish" toons and sort of healish toons and sort of CCish toons...
BUT DONT NEED ANY OF THEM
the DPS group will WALK through the content/environment/pvp/everything.
They've addressed Golden Paths saying they will make adjustments as needed.
Again, we'll all need to wait and see how the end product works out. At this point it's words without application.
I was really holding out hope that the emergent AI was going to be ground-breaking. I'm getting that dreadful feeling of the reality being far far below expectations. These mobs won't be learning anything, they'll have "inclinations" towards favored mechanics. So if a mob's inclination is to use knock down abilities, then that's what they'll do. They won't actually learn a damn thing about anything.
Combat is officially GW2. They can call it what they want because they're doing everything in their power to avoid labeling it, but all signs point to GW2. You can kind of be a role, but that role is never NEEDED. Well if the content can be done without needing any particular role, then go go zergtime!
VR is not ready. The OcRift is cool and all, but it is so not ready for proper gaming sessions. I wonder how many people will be gung-ho about it after using it for a week. Unless they can make the headset ultra lightweight and avoid all the nausea/pain issues that have been reported for prolonged use I can't see this being a great tactic.
Skills also sound exactly like GW2. Weapon skills tied to class and type. Elementalist can use daggers in GW2 just like the thief, but they get different abilities. "class skills" is really just "utility slots" which are class based in GW2. A warrior does not have the same utility skills as an engineer. Once again, if it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck . . .
"Some" of the world is going to be procedurally generated. Like I thought. At first I was imagining an entire open world, but when I saw the demo I started feeling like they are going to have certain "entry points" around the world where you can break through.
Linear questing. I think a lot of people were expecting total freedom when they announced a lack of levels, but they're going to place "arbitrary limits" essentially gating content until you're geared enough to do it. Lame. I wanted complete free roaming exploration.
"Permanence is a grey thing." No it isn't. Permanence means permanent, temporary means temporary. So we won't really be able to "change" the world, I wish they would just out and say it.
Instancing will exist. Which is fine, but I again I wish they would not dance around it and just admit the world isn't quite that seamless. I'm going to laugh my butt off if they have a "personal story" like . . . gw2.
I dunno, I will still probably enjoy it (the same way that I currently enjoy gw2), but every time they open their mouths the features feel a bit more paired down, a little more lack luster, a little less innovative, a little less ambitious.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Dave said EQN combat is not like GW2, this makes it sounds more like GW2. He better get that response to us soon. Cuse if there is no tanking and healing at all. Im not interested.
Whilst initial announcements left open the possibility that they had some sort of new structure to combat.
Every quote, statement and release since that point has confirmed their commitment to removing the need for any group to have any class.
This makes all 40 classes (+ any others they add later) POINTLESS
Collecting them will be like collecting different colored robes that all do the same thing.
It is a shame, with so many promising things in the tool set they have that this has been the choice.
For those of you who have responded to this sort of criticism by suggesting you can still play a healer or a tank but ...the game is so great you will just not NEED to have heals/tanks/CC/support.
Think about this...
In any other game that has a structure to combat (including games that have action combat) HOW would you make an encounter that no longer needs heals/tanks/CC/support.
I will tell you how.
You make its so damn easy that a group of DPS can dot it without those other classes
At which point DPS is the only class build worth having.
There is NO magic bullet to this.
Arguing that other games that tried and failed and that EQN will get it right... is like arguing that National Socialism was a great idea its just that everyone who tried it was stupid.
It has fundamental flaws in the IDEA, not the execution.
Q. "To clear it up once and for all, are there dedicated healers and tanks or it now more Guild Wars 2 slash The Secret World? Is the Holy Trinity dead?"
A. "Well, I can answer that to some degree. It's.. " Michaels begins, slowly. ".. the dedicated roles of the holy trinity are not going to be present in Everquest Next. There will be different classes and different build that are angled towards some of the roles, so there might be a class or a build or a class that is more tank-ish but you don't NEED that person to accomplish that goal and content. You can go in there without having somebody who is the stereotypical tank."
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
Klug interjects, "The combat mechanics work very differently. "
" - Yeah. The combat's very different. There's not the common threat mechanic that people see in MMOs where there is somebody who can generate enough aggro that the NPC will never ever turn away from them." Michael finishes
19:18 elaboration on removal of trinity, Dev's talking about their experiences with GW2 and NW and how they are moving beyond what those games have done
It sounds like you are listening to more how you feel it will be rather than how the Dev's have explained how it will be. That's fine. You also have the opportunity to see for yourself once it comes out, or wait for more info as it's later released.
Question is then, whats the point of 40+ classes. 40 different ways to DPS? Really need some answers here lol
I played GW2 - and I just could not get over how awful the combat system was. I'm sorry, but if there is no trinity system in an mmo, no thanks. I don't know why they thought it was fail - why, cause your healer doesn't show up? Cry a river, not the mechanics fault, find a damn reliable person to play a healer then.
I quit GW2 on one reason - combat. It was numbing boring, dungeons were abysmal boring - all just zergfest - that's its. OMG it was horrible.
I don't care what other features they throw in EQNEXT - if it truly goes down the horrible GW2 combat system - you can count me out of it, 100%
P.S. - You can still have action combat like GW2 - but the trinity system must stay in place
Question is then, whats the point of 40+ classes. 40 different ways to DPS? Really need some answers here lol
Yes. That's correct. Some classes just might lean in different directions. The Berserker might be more offense oriented while the Warrior might be a bit more balanced.
I know some people don't want to accept that this is GW2 style, but Warrior and Guardian both use Greatsword, but the abilities are different with the warrior more geared toward damage and the guardian more geared toward control and defense.
I know some people don't want to accept that this is GW2 style
That's extremely relative. As far as it was explained, if you want to be a healer you can just pick a class with 4 utility slots and fill them up with a direct heal, an aoe heal, a heal over time and an absorb shield. You'll have 4 viable DPS/CC/knockback/whatever skills on top of that but i don't see why one would suddenly brand this "GW2-style" for any other reason than trying to create drama.
I know some people don't want to accept that this is GW2 style
That's extremely relative. As far as it was explained, if you want to be a healer you can just pick a class with 4 utility slots and fill them up with a direct heal, an aoe heal, a heal over time and an absorb shield. You'll have 4 viable DPS/CC/knockback/whatever skills on top of that but i don't see why one would suddenly brand this "GW2-style" for any other reason than trying to create drama.
Who in their right mind would play a healer like that when there is no need. Where is the satisfaction for a role when that role is not needed. Why would you do that except to make yourself frustrated.
Originally posted by r0guyThat's extremely relative. As far as it was explained, if you want to be a healer you can just pick a class with 4 utility slots and fill them up with a direct heal, an aoe heal, a heal over time and an absorb shield. You'll have 4 viable DPS/CC/knockback/whatever skills on top of that but i don't see why one would suddenly brand this "GW2-style" for any other reason than trying to create drama.
Your example proves the other posters point.
You can spec into heals in GW2 (tried it myself)
BUT...its pointless
Your heals will NEVER be enough to make a difference greater than if you just went DPS
Thats the whole POINT of the system
To make no class NEEDed you design classes that just cant do anything much better than any other class (all the same)
All DPS a bit, ALL heal a bit, ALL CC a bit
its not about branding it GW2 style... it IS GW2 style (with less slots so that its not to hard)
EQN is going to have to live or die on the quality of its sand box elements because it sure is not going to set the world on fire with the Henry Ford approach to combat (you can have it in any color as long as its black)
( You could try this B. Murphy. With your "industry standing" you would even get a longer interview, and probably more answers.)
It is the "job", nay I say RESPONSIBILITY to report the truth. Not their own opinions, well OK that is fine if it is an editorial. When the media colludes with industry, political persuasion, religion, anything really, harm is done to all involved. The industry gets poor feedback. The public gets a poor product. The media get a poor reputation.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Dave said EQN combat is not like GW2, this makes it sounds more like GW2. He better get that response to us soon. Cuse if there is no tanking and healing at all. Im not interested.
Whilst initial announcements left open the possibility that they had some sort of new structure to combat.
Every quote, statement and release since that point has confirmed their commitment to removing the need for any group to have any class.
This makes all 40 classes (+ any others they add later) POINTLESS
Collecting them will be like collecting different colored robes that all do the same thing.
It is a shame, with so many promising things in the tool set they have that this has been the choice.
For those of you who have responded to this sort of criticism by suggesting you can still play a healer or a tank but ...the game is so great you will just not NEED to have heals/tanks/CC/support.
Think about this...
In any other game that has a structure to combat (including games that have action combat) HOW would you make an encounter that no longer needs heals/tanks/CC/support.
I will tell you how.
You make its so damn easy that a group of DPS can dot it without those other classes
At which point DPS is the only class build worth having.
There is NO magic bullet to this.
Arguing that other games that tried and failed and that EQN will get it right... is like arguing that National Socialism was a great idea its just that everyone who tried it was stupid.
It has fundamental flaws in the IDEA, not the execution.
Q. "To clear it up once and for all, are there dedicated healers and tanks or it now more Guild Wars 2 slash The Secret World? Is the Holy Trinity dead?"
A. "Well, I can answer that to some degree. It's.. " Michaels begins, slowly. ".. the dedicated roles of the holy trinity are not going to be present in Everquest Next. There will be different classes and different build that are angled towards some of the roles, so there might be a class or a build or a class that is more tank-ish but you don't NEED that person to accomplish that goal and content. You can go in there without having somebody who is the stereotypical tank."
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
Klug interjects, "The combat mechanics work very differently. "
" - Yeah. The combat's very different. There's not the common threat mechanic that people see in MMOs where there is somebody who can generate enough aggro that the NPC will never ever turn away from them." Michael finishes
19:18 elaboration on removal of trinity, Dev's talking about their experiences with GW2 and NW and how they are moving beyond what those games have done
It sounds like you are listening to more how you feel it will be rather than how the Dev's have explained how it will be. That's fine. You also have the opportunity to see for yourself once it comes out, or wait for more info as it's later released.
Question is then, whats the point of 40+ classes. 40 different ways to DPS? Really need some answers here lol
I agree. What I think they've done is shattered the old classes' abilities and scattered them in smaller packets to make up the 40 they mention. So (and this is just what I am thinking) normally an Enchanter would have a plethora of buffs, mezzes, stuns, etc. Perhaps they've spread those abilities out to 6 classes that you can find. Same with the old Wizard archetype, or whatever other class you can think of. As you find a class, you have access to another pool of 4 class abilities plus an alternate set of 4 weapon abilities.
In the First Class panel, at 19:16, Michael Mann, the Class and Combat Lead Designer, walks us through a build. Although there are DPS skills, they do not make up the entirety of what is available. Each class has utility in one form or another. So, in combat, yes you need to kill a mob but you will also need to control adds, counter attacks, protect, heal, mana drain, etc. I don't think purely DPSing will be a successful route to winning the more advanced encounters. There are a lot of skills available besides DPS based ones, so having them design game encounters where those are used exclusively doesn't make a lot of sense (to me).
I know some people don't want to accept that this is GW2 style
That's extremely relative. As far as it was explained, if you want to be a healer you can just pick a class with 4 utility slots and fill them up with a direct heal, an aoe heal, a heal over time and an absorb shield. You'll have 4 viable DPS/CC/knockback/whatever skills on top of that but i don't see why one would suddenly brand this "GW2-style" for any other reason than trying to create drama.
But the question is will it be playable. The game needs to make things like that fit into the game design. GW2 (hate beating a dead horse but it seems to fit whats going on so well) I specked my Guardian to be healing support. Doing so made the class so gimped it was not even funny. Even in a team you were better off having all DPS as the healing I put out lowered the teams survivability then if they had someone specked DPS to just kill things faster. So my Guardian specked DPS with a 20% support/heals gave more to the team then my Guardian specked 60% support heals. Someone who likes to play support, this broke my heart.
IMO, from what I have garnered about this game to date, it needs owPvP with territory control. Tie PvE and PvP together by granting exclusive access to instanced PvE dungeons to the faction controlling territory with dungeons in the zone. Do this for all instanced dungeons across the map. Stop making PvE and PvP and separate game inside a game. Bring them together into one cohesive game. Allow NPC mobs to also control territory and join in the fight. Maybe a losing faction can parlay with an NPC tribe to assist them in taking back a particular zone. This would play into rep and actions with consequences. Of course I highly doubt SOE will do this, but it would be a beautiful thing.
( You could try this B. Murphy. With your "industry standing" you would even get a longer interview, and probably more answers.)
It is the "job", nay I say RESPONSIBILITY to report the truth. Not their own opinions, well OK that is fine if it is an editorial. When the media colludes with industry, political persuasion, religion, anything really, harm is done to all involved. The industry gets poor feedback. The public gets a poor product. The media get a poor reputation.
I was impressed as Cassandra is the first person I've seen in a long time be so aggressive and actually be a journalist rather than an extension of the gaming world's corporate marketing strategy.
I know some people don't want to accept that this is GW2 style
That's extremely relative. As far as it was explained, if you want to be a healer you can just pick a class with 4 utility slots and fill them up with a direct heal, an aoe heal, a heal over time and an absorb shield. You'll have 4 viable DPS/CC/knockback/whatever skills on top of that but i don't see why one would suddenly brand this "GW2-style" for any other reason than trying to create drama.
You mean like the way a Guardian in GW2 can equip the following:
MH Mace - #2 Symbol of Faith, gives regeneration and retaliation to nearby allies, #3 Protector's strike, surround yourself and allies with a shield that blocks attacks and grants protection.
OH Shield - #4 Shield of Faith, decreases damage for allies by 33%, #5 Shield of Absorption, create a dome around yourself and allies that blocks projectiles and can activate again for AoE Heal.
Heal Slot - Healing Breeze, AoE for you and allies
Utility Slot 1 - Merciful Intervention, teleport to nearest ally with lowest health and heal them + grant regen (single target heal!)
Utility Slot 2 - Sanctuary, Create a dome that projectiles and foes cannot enter, grant regeneration to allies in the dome.
Utility Slot 3 - Retreat!, grant switness and Aegis to allies (aegis blocks the next attack = zero damage) good to use before a big hit from a boss.
Elite Skill - Tome of Courage, gives you 20 seconds of 5 new abilities that buff, heal and support allies.
Each class in GW2 can be built in such a way as to provide alternate roles for the group. But you don't NEED any of them, so when you don't NEED something, no one bothers.
They said Trinity isn't needed. They never said there would be a situation you wouldn't need a certain ability or ability type to be more accurate.
They are talking about the drawback of traditional roles and only one person being able to fill them. The real question is how their AI is going to keep this type of system from being a spam fest.
They said Trinity isn't needed. They never said there would be a situation you wouldn't need a certain ability or ability type to be more accurate.
They are talking about the drawback of traditional roles and only one person being able to fill them. The real question is how their AI is going to keep this type of system from being a spam fest.
No if this article is right its not taking the focus off the trinity, its not even a option short term in a team. I get adding more way to control the battle and have many ways to make a team work but the trinity should be an option short term in a team. If you try and use it long term in a fight a mobs AI should change tactics so you need to use other team members skills and brains. Stuns, knock backs, pets, etc. But this is not the case, you can not tank and heal at all. There is zero aggro management.
Comments
Q. "To clear it up once and for all, are there dedicated healers and tanks or it now more Guild Wars 2 slash The Secret World? Is the Holy Trinity dead?"
A. "Well, I can answer that to some degree. It's.. " Michaels begins, slowly. ".. the dedicated roles of the holy trinity are not going to be present in Everquest Next. There will be different classes and different build that are angled towards some of the roles, so there might be a class or a build or a class that is more tank-ish but you don't NEED that person to accomplish that goal and content. You can go in there without having somebody who is the stereotypical tank."
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
Klug interjects, "The combat mechanics work very differently. "
" - Yeah. The combat's very different. There's not the common threat mechanic that people see in MMOs where there is somebody who can generate enough aggro that the NPC will never ever turn away from them." Michael finishes
Also: Class Panel part 2 Q&A
It sounds like you are listening to more how you feel it will be rather than how the Dev's have explained how it will be. That's fine. You also have the opportunity to see for yourself once it comes out, or wait for more info as it's later released.
Short answer... NO
There are MANY other great MMOs coming out that are NOT making this mistake. Both you, me and many others will have to get out MMO fix in some other game
Back to the OP and the interview ( a very good interview I think)
One thing I took from it was "Voxel farm"
Go look them up, the sooner more games use this tech the better for all of us.
I am reading, listening and looking at everything they have to say.
Given its a long time away and not even close to nailed down we are ALL going on how we FEEL it will be...
BASED ON WHAT WE SEE HEAR AND READ.
Its not the comments on the trinity that tell us what is going on .
Its the comment that you will not NEED any particular class...ANY CLASS
so... full group of DPS will do, end of story, end to theory crafting.
Because if you can make a group out of "sort of tankish" toons and sort of healish toons and sort of CCish toons...
BUT DONT NEED ANY OF THEM
the DPS group will WALK through the content/environment/pvp/everything.
I also PvP because I find that it's the least boring thing to do. Mainly because i like going around the world instead of staying in instances and quest mobs give no challenge... at all...
But the other side of the coin is: If Orc bandits (or whatever) are now smart enough to ambush you unexpectedly, provide challenging combat and with a multiclassing+combat system blurring the line between PVP and PVE skills (so a PVE player isn't helpless because he just has aggro, taunts and no CC).... What's the problem with OWPVP? Why would anyone have such an extreme allergic reaction to it?
Hopefully they'll actually design the game for PVP (with some rewards, the ability to attack towns without broken OP guards, no flying mounts) and just switch off those features on PVE servers.
Q. "Er. Boats. Are there any oceans planned for launch? Boats?"
A Michaels grins. "We haven't discussed any of that with the public yet. So, look for that in the future."
I thought this question was a good one for a couple of reasons. Vanguard's crafting could allow you to make a boat and sail around the world. Is this what we will see as part of the crafting system? It could also just mean a form of travel. If that is the case, would be return to the EQ style of boat with its lengthy timer, or would it just be a clicky NPC with a faster travel system?
I'd love to see crafted water transportation. I only dipped my toes into Vanguard so I didn't get to see that. If that isn't the case, I would also like to see the older form of boat travel come back, a la EQ. "BOAT!!" , anyone? It made you feel like you were getting ready to go on a journey, and the ride itself was rather fun.
Wait and see, I guess.
They've addressed Golden Paths saying they will make adjustments as needed.
Again, we'll all need to wait and see how the end product works out. At this point it's words without application.
I was really holding out hope that the emergent AI was going to be ground-breaking. I'm getting that dreadful feeling of the reality being far far below expectations. These mobs won't be learning anything, they'll have "inclinations" towards favored mechanics. So if a mob's inclination is to use knock down abilities, then that's what they'll do. They won't actually learn a damn thing about anything.
Combat is officially GW2. They can call it what they want because they're doing everything in their power to avoid labeling it, but all signs point to GW2. You can kind of be a role, but that role is never NEEDED. Well if the content can be done without needing any particular role, then go go zergtime!
VR is not ready. The OcRift is cool and all, but it is so not ready for proper gaming sessions. I wonder how many people will be gung-ho about it after using it for a week. Unless they can make the headset ultra lightweight and avoid all the nausea/pain issues that have been reported for prolonged use I can't see this being a great tactic.
Skills also sound exactly like GW2. Weapon skills tied to class and type. Elementalist can use daggers in GW2 just like the thief, but they get different abilities. "class skills" is really just "utility slots" which are class based in GW2. A warrior does not have the same utility skills as an engineer. Once again, if it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck . . .
"Some" of the world is going to be procedurally generated. Like I thought. At first I was imagining an entire open world, but when I saw the demo I started feeling like they are going to have certain "entry points" around the world where you can break through.
Linear questing. I think a lot of people were expecting total freedom when they announced a lack of levels, but they're going to place "arbitrary limits" essentially gating content until you're geared enough to do it. Lame. I wanted complete free roaming exploration.
"Permanence is a grey thing." No it isn't. Permanence means permanent, temporary means temporary. So we won't really be able to "change" the world, I wish they would just out and say it.
Instancing will exist. Which is fine, but I again I wish they would not dance around it and just admit the world isn't quite that seamless. I'm going to laugh my butt off if they have a "personal story" like . . . gw2.
I dunno, I will still probably enjoy it (the same way that I currently enjoy gw2), but every time they open their mouths the features feel a bit more paired down, a little more lack luster, a little less innovative, a little less ambitious.
Question is then, whats the point of 40+ classes. 40 different ways to DPS? Really need some answers here lol
I played GW2 - and I just could not get over how awful the combat system was. I'm sorry, but if there is no trinity system in an mmo, no thanks. I don't know why they thought it was fail - why, cause your healer doesn't show up? Cry a river, not the mechanics fault, find a damn reliable person to play a healer then.
I quit GW2 on one reason - combat. It was numbing boring, dungeons were abysmal boring - all just zergfest - that's its. OMG it was horrible.
I don't care what other features they throw in EQNEXT - if it truly goes down the horrible GW2 combat system - you can count me out of it, 100%
P.S. - You can still have action combat like GW2 - but the trinity system must stay in place
BE SMART SOE AND KEEP TRINITY!
Because people want to be different.. it would be pretty boring if there was just one class and thats what everyone went.
40 classes will give people a nice choice to play how they want to play..
Yes. That's correct.
Some classes just might lean in different directions. The Berserker might be more offense oriented while the Warrior might be a bit more balanced.
I know some people don't want to accept that this is GW2 style, but Warrior and Guardian both use Greatsword, but the abilities are different with the warrior more geared toward damage and the guardian more geared toward control and defense.
It will only let you change the color...
just like GW2
OOO I DPS with fire... o weee weee I DPS with a big Axe... o WEEEEE WEEEEE I DPS with a hammer.
If you have NO NEED for any class then the game...has NO NEED FOR ANY CLASS
The classes will be just like trading cards.
Nice to have but mostly pointless junk you keep in a box.
This is where it falls down...
IF you give a class a good CC move e.g. stun a group of mobs for 8s, thats the kind of MOVE a team may NEED for a tough fight
Now they can handle this several ways.
a. remove that CC
b. nurf that CC
c. give 10 other classes that CC
d. expect everyone to spec into that CC with multiclassing
They have indicated option b
making NO CLASS NEEDED
= GW2
That's extremely relative. As far as it was explained, if you want to be a healer you can just pick a class with 4 utility slots and fill them up with a direct heal, an aoe heal, a heal over time and an absorb shield. You'll have 4 viable DPS/CC/knockback/whatever skills on top of that but i don't see why one would suddenly brand this "GW2-style" for any other reason than trying to create drama.
Who in their right mind would play a healer like that when there is no need. Where is the satisfaction for a role when that role is not needed. Why would you do that except to make yourself frustrated.
Your example proves the other posters point.
You can spec into heals in GW2 (tried it myself)
BUT...its pointless
Your heals will NEVER be enough to make a difference greater than if you just went DPS
Thats the whole POINT of the system
To make no class NEEDed you design classes that just cant do anything much better than any other class (all the same)
All DPS a bit, ALL heal a bit, ALL CC a bit
its not about branding it GW2 style... it IS GW2 style (with less slots so that its not to hard)
EQN is going to have to live or die on the quality of its sand box elements because it sure is not going to set the world on fire with the Henry Ford approach to combat (you can have it in any color as long as its black)
Thanks for the read OP.
Props to the reporter for asking tough questions.
( You could try this B. Murphy. With your "industry standing" you would even get a longer interview, and probably more answers.)
It is the "job", nay I say RESPONSIBILITY to report the truth. Not their own opinions, well OK that is fine if it is an editorial. When the media colludes with industry, political persuasion, religion, anything really, harm is done to all involved. The industry gets poor feedback. The public gets a poor product. The media get a poor reputation.
I agree. What I think they've done is shattered the old classes' abilities and scattered them in smaller packets to make up the 40 they mention. So (and this is just what I am thinking) normally an Enchanter would have a plethora of buffs, mezzes, stuns, etc. Perhaps they've spread those abilities out to 6 classes that you can find. Same with the old Wizard archetype, or whatever other class you can think of. As you find a class, you have access to another pool of 4 class abilities plus an alternate set of 4 weapon abilities.
In the First Class panel, at 19:16, Michael Mann, the Class and Combat Lead Designer, walks us through a build. Although there are DPS skills, they do not make up the entirety of what is available. Each class has utility in one form or another. So, in combat, yes you need to kill a mob but you will also need to control adds, counter attacks, protect, heal, mana drain, etc. I don't think purely DPSing will be a successful route to winning the more advanced encounters. There are a lot of skills available besides DPS based ones, so having them design game encounters where those are used exclusively doesn't make a lot of sense (to me).
But the question is will it be playable. The game needs to make things like that fit into the game design. GW2 (hate beating a dead horse but it seems to fit whats going on so well) I specked my Guardian to be healing support. Doing so made the class so gimped it was not even funny. Even in a team you were better off having all DPS as the healing I put out lowered the teams survivability then if they had someone specked DPS to just kill things faster. So my Guardian specked DPS with a 20% support/heals gave more to the team then my Guardian specked 60% support heals. Someone who likes to play support, this broke my heart.
I was impressed as Cassandra is the first person I've seen in a long time be so aggressive and actually be a journalist rather than an extension of the gaming world's corporate marketing strategy.
I'm going to keep an eye on her.
You mean like the way a Guardian in GW2 can equip the following:
MH Mace - #2 Symbol of Faith, gives regeneration and retaliation to nearby allies, #3 Protector's strike, surround yourself and allies with a shield that blocks attacks and grants protection.
OH Shield - #4 Shield of Faith, decreases damage for allies by 33%, #5 Shield of Absorption, create a dome around yourself and allies that blocks projectiles and can activate again for AoE Heal.
Heal Slot - Healing Breeze, AoE for you and allies
Utility Slot 1 - Merciful Intervention, teleport to nearest ally with lowest health and heal them + grant regen (single target heal!)
Utility Slot 2 - Sanctuary, Create a dome that projectiles and foes cannot enter, grant regeneration to allies in the dome.
Utility Slot 3 - Retreat!, grant switness and Aegis to allies (aegis blocks the next attack = zero damage) good to use before a big hit from a boss.
Elite Skill - Tome of Courage, gives you 20 seconds of 5 new abilities that buff, heal and support allies.
Each class in GW2 can be built in such a way as to provide alternate roles for the group. But you don't NEED any of them, so when you don't NEED something, no one bothers.
They said Trinity isn't needed. They never said there would be a situation you wouldn't need a certain ability or ability type to be more accurate.
They are talking about the drawback of traditional roles and only one person being able to fill them. The real question is how their AI is going to keep this type of system from being a spam fest.
No if this article is right its not taking the focus off the trinity, its not even a option short term in a team. I get adding more way to control the battle and have many ways to make a team work but the trinity should be an option short term in a team. If you try and use it long term in a fight a mobs AI should change tactics so you need to use other team members skills and brains. Stuns, knock backs, pets, etc. But this is not the case, you can not tank and heal at all. There is zero aggro management.