This is from an SOE discussion with Terry from SOE:
Quote:----------- Last night during one of the panels, the question came up about disrupting a Rally Call if you wanted to be the bad guy. Team gave a definitive yes, that you would be able to do that. I would really like for you to elaborate on what kind of system you'll use to do that.
Destruction probably comes in the form of not doing it. You can choose to not participate, but generally Rallying Calls are not going to go in reverse. If the Rallying Calls is to build up the city of Qeynos, it's not going to happen in reverse.
There are many ways in which Rallying Calls can be progressed and there are ways in which players can disrupt aspects of that progression. For instance, if there was part of a Rallying Call that required you to collect wood in the area, you could disrupt it by going in and cutting down every tree that you see and making sure that there is no wood that anybody else can get. But that doesn't mean that not getting wood is going to stop other avenues of progression.
We're not actually building a game that's set up so that you can grief.
-------END QUOTE-
Am I the only one that read's the above interview and without question know his answer was a " Well I guess you could do this to be evil"? Seems real clear there won't be ways for the two "sides" to effect general rally calls, cut and dry. I'll assume both good and evil factions will have their own rally calls, in general ; but the above interview seems like a pretty obvious answer to the " Can I be evil at a rally call and get rewarded for it?" question, and hurtles in the face of the original answer of the definitive yes the panel threw out.
Or then again .... maybe my reading comprehension is at a low today.
Originally posted by techninez if i would like to take my char down the dark path be a bit of a naughty boy will the only way ill be able to do that is by doing nothing? i hope there will be a system just as big to people who want to do good and bad there should be quests where you collect the wood ect and players too stop you or make it harder for you... its all sounding very biased or one sided so far, and is not sounding like a really immersive world the do good-er RP should want that more than anything remember this word was molded by war.. i want looting gangs bandits pirates the list goes on.
Factions are, according to the Dev's, huge in EQN. So is your reputation. Some NPC's won't even talk to you if you have done bad things, or play an evil class or race. Your actions carry weight. For instance, if you want to be a Paladin you have to have lived an exemplary life filled with good deeds. I imagine if you want to be a Necro or Shadowknight you will have to do evil deeds and acts of cruelty. I'm sure we will get more information as time goes one, but yes, your actions have consequences. We just haven't heard about some of the potential ways to be really bad yet in much detail.
Is this pure speculation or is there actual info from an EQN dev or staff that says actions will carry weight? From the remarks about rallying calls and how it cannot fail, that it only does not progress to the next stage gives me the impression that "evil" will not be an option and everything will be one path/objective only and no different than a quest.
I am going to refer you to the Panels from last weekend. That information has been said explicitly a couple of times.
Or you can simply answer the question, you spend enough time on these forums anyways. I grow tired of watching pointless panels and hype BS and rather spend my time elsewhere, especially since there are a gazillion threads, tweets, panels, and who knows what else. More so since this game is only of moderate interest for me.
This is from an SOE discussion with Terry from SOE:
Quote:----------- Last night during one of the panels, the question came up about disrupting a Rally Call if you wanted to be the bad guy. Team gave a definitive yes, that you would be able to do that. I would really like for you to elaborate on what kind of system you'll use to do that.
Destruction probably comes in the form of not doing it. You can choose to not participate, but generally Rallying Calls are not going to go in reverse. If the Rallying Calls is to build up the city of Qeynos, it's not going to happen in reverse.
There are many ways in which Rallying Calls can be progressed and there are ways in which players can disrupt aspects of that progression. For instance, if there was part of a Rallying Call that required you to collect wood in the area, you could disrupt it by going in and cutting down every tree that you see and making sure that there is no wood that anybody else can get. But that doesn't mean that not getting wood is going to stop other avenues of progression.
We're not actually building a game that's set up so that you can grief.
-------END QUOTE-
Am I the only one that read's the above interview and without question know his answer was a " Well I guess you could do this to be evil"? Seems real clear there won't be ways for the two "sides" to effect general rally calls, cut and dry. I'll assume both good and evil factions will have their own rally calls, in general ; but the above interview seems like a pretty obvious answer to the " Can I be evil at a rally call and get rewarded for it?" question, and hurtles in the face of the original answer of the definitive yes the panel threw out.
Or then again .... maybe my reading comprehension is at a low today.
just sounds like a 1 way quest, boring
Yeah, seems like the only "evil" is griefing. Like tagging all the mobs in a "kill 10 rats" quest.
Originally posted by techninez if i would like to take my char down the dark path be a bit of a naughty boy will the only way ill be able to do that is by doing nothing? i hope there will be a system just as big to people who want to do good and bad there should be quests where you collect the wood ect and players too stop you or make it harder for you... its all sounding very biased or one sided so far, and is not sounding like a really immersive world the do good-er RP should want that more than anything remember this word was molded by war.. i want looting gangs bandits pirates the list goes on.
Factions are, according to the Dev's, huge in EQN. So is your reputation. Some NPC's won't even talk to you if you have done bad things, or play an evil class or race. Your actions carry weight. For instance, if you want to be a Paladin you have to have lived an exemplary life filled with good deeds. I imagine if you want to be a Necro or Shadowknight you will have to do evil deeds and acts of cruelty. I'm sure we will get more information as time goes one, but yes, your actions have consequences. We just haven't heard about some of the potential ways to be really bad yet in much detail.
Is this pure speculation or is there actual info from an EQN dev or staff that says actions will carry weight? From the remarks about rallying calls and how it cannot fail, that it only does not progress to the next stage gives me the impression that "evil" will not be an option and everything will be one path/objective only and no different than a quest.
Yes the devs have said this in better detail on the lore panel, what you chose to do in game has a impact on how npc's and factions react to you. Doing evil deeds will shut off certain parts of the game but open up new ones, so if you save a farmer from orcs trying to kill him , he may send you on a quest to talk to someone in a temple that can lead you to getting a paladin class or if you help kill the farmer then the orcs become your buddies and give a different route to take. My guess is not all ralling calls are going to be good aligned, if they bring in evil cites for the dark elves and such. We will see.
Hmmm... if they do that then hopefully they'll make it where you have stuff closed off. Like how pirating in EVE has severeve consequences via giving you neg security rating. Hopefully choosing one or the that has impact on your character and not just another quest sort of mechanic.
They really described so far a rally call as one event taking place,
everyone in the world knows about it
it has a start time and it takes months
They seem to imply only one is going to be happening at a time.
It seems odd that one would believe that the entire game community world would revolve around some city going up in some far corner of the continent, I imagine a lot of people will ignore a rally point and work towards personal goals unless said rally point pops up in a place they care about visiting or the rewards are so overwhelming that to ignore it would be detrimental....it could very well just end up being something going on "over there" to a lot of people and something you don't care about. There is nothing wrong with that and I actually hope it is the case, to use a SWG reference would you ditch tatooine, where your shops and crafting are to venture all the way to another planet just to build a city? Maybe if you were bored maybe not.
Again,
We just don't know enough to even speculate at this point, is this a huge event or just an event, what kind of rewards or social aspect are involved, does it open up large scale dynamic content for the raider crowd, or something else? All these were kind of hinted at but all we saw was a hand drawn picture of a village in the woods... They sound interesting but who knows.
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
Yeah........
This is the one part of the game that scares me. It makes me think that Rallying Points are really just GW2's dynamic events but LONGER. In a Dynamic event it really doesn't feel like you affect the world because the only way it fails is if no one does it...THEN the centaurs take over...at least until some random player comes by and feels like starting the the event. The Centaurs don't take over and say "Hey, we have this secured now lets go take over a bigger town!"
It's disappointing. Hopefully though they will have rallying points for evil factions too? I mean certainly they will have a good side with high-elves and a bad side with dark-elves etc etc so maybe that would mean a rallying call for the bad guys too?
The game would be much more dynamic if they let the evil players join in. Even if it was by PVP. He says they don't build a game for griefing but when has open world PVP made for griefing? I get it, new players don't want to get ganked. We all understand that, but all you have to do is when a player starts to do a rallying call then he's flagged for PVP. Problem solved. You now have MEANINGFUL open world PVP and you have a system where players MAKE the world they live in much like EVE...but with better gameplay hopefully...
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
Like i said earlier, the fact that they HAVE a rally call system - even if it has only a single possible outcome at the beginning - would easily allow them to create a rallying call with two (or more) potential outcomes based (for example) on different faction objectives.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
that what i was trying to say, it would be so much more fun knowing you actually done something mega! who ever won the battle it would be great.
Are you all so addicted to theme park that you can't think anymore?
The rally calls are for people who want to do theme park content. If you're not into it go and do things like a real sandbox game!
Don't try to take sides, cause it wouldn't matter which side you're on you're still on a ride!
Think outside your little boxes, if you hear about a rally call take pride in the fact that you don't even listen, that you're going out and exploring a huge and unexplored world. Let the mindless drones work on building the predetermined city, don't ask to be a drone on the other side.
Are you all so addicted to theme park that you can't think anymore?
The rally calls are for people who want to do theme park content. If you're not into it go and do things like a real sandbox game!
Don't try to take sides, cause it wouldn't matter which side you're on you're still on a ride!
Think outside your little boxes, if you hear about a rally call take pride in the fact that you don't even listen, that you're going out and exploring a huge and unexplored world. Let the mindless drones work on building the predetermined city, don't ask to be a drone on the other side.
/ This
I really saw Rally Points as a way to introduce a story into a sandbox, a hard thing to do compared to having story elements in the themepark. Look at the Secret World, a grand ol themepark, it has a pretty good story and lots of story elements delivered by the themepark ride, you can not really deliever that in a Sandbox type game...I kind of got the idea from the various Q&A's that this was SOE's method of doing that without being a themepark....there is a larger narrative, it is going on in the world and SOE can kind of craft a metatheme with this rally points while still leaving the majority of the world undisturbed and sandboxy.
I don't care if its targeted at people that need a purpose, to have a one sided system in a sandbox is fail. They touted that two servers may look completely different, I don't see this happening if rally calls are only one sided. It should be up to the players to decide if they want to help or hinder the rally call. It would be much more epic for both sides ... 'Remember that time we defended Halas from the evil faction while we helped fortify the walls' as opposed to 'Remember that time we collected 500 bits of stone and finished Halas just like every other server.'
Without player assisted fail conditions the rally calls are as meaningless as GW2 temp content.
It wouldn't be sandbox if it had two sides, that's the whole point.
If you want sandbox then ignore the rally call and you're showing your support for sandbox right there. Better than saying there should be two sides is saying that they shouldn't have rally calls.
Let players decide where and how to build cities and what to name them. That's sandbox.
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
Like i said earlier, the fact that they HAVE a rally call system - even if it has only a single possible outcome at the beginning - would easily allow them to create a rallying call with two (or more) potential outcomes based (for example) on different faction objectives.
They already said though, you can not , as a player, go "against" rallying calls.
In the Q&A panel a person asked this question, if he wanted to "stop" a rallying call or be the "bad guy," the developers LAUGHED at him and said no, they weren't building a game for people to grief.
So to the developers it seems playing an "Evil" character or a bad guy, and having deep faction choices that might (logically) make you want to resort to helping the orcs instead of stopping them, this is "griefing."
I can't believe the room of people were clapping as well when the dev said that. So many people can't see the forest for the trees there and understand how much more meaningful gameplay would be when it's free and not so rigidly held in place, where other players can affect how things progress in either directoin.
Answer is a big fat NO since rallying calls cannot fail, they just won't progress to the next stage until it's completed.
That makes me suspicious that the game will give the illusion and being told that it is a sandbox when in reality it'll be another on rails MMO of a themepark at it's core with sandbox elements.
They said the outcomes would depend on what the players do. Which sound like you will have the option to work against the do gooders
It wouldn't be sandbox if it had two sides, that's the whole point.
If you want sandbox then ignore the rally call and you're showing your support for sandbox right there. Better than saying there should be two sides is saying that they shouldn't have rally calls.
Let players decide where and how to build cities and what to name them. That's sandbox.
I don't think anyones asking for "two" sides, rather they are just asking for logical ways for players to play their characters, good or bad.
Even in EQ2 the "evil" side was so watered down, you felt like a hero rather then a bad guy most of the time.
Having rallying calls and then allowing player sto go about them in many ways is much more impactful to the players then having them only go about in a pre designed way the developers have designed them to go.
As well, factions could play a much much bigger role if they factored into rallying calls. As I said with the whole Orcs attacking a town thing, that's just one example.
you might have other factions playing roles from many angles, and how the people have worked into factions can impact how those rallying calls turn out.
Originally posted by asdarIt wouldn't be sandbox if it had two sides, that's the whole point.If you want sandbox then ignore the rally call and you're showing your support for sandbox right there. Better than saying there should be two sides is saying that they shouldn't have rally calls. Let players decide where and how to build cities and what to name them. That's sandbox.
I don't think anyones asking for "two" sides, rather they are just asking for logical ways for players to play their characters, good or bad.
Even in EQ2 the "evil" side was so watered down, you felt like a hero rather then a bad guy most of the time.
Having rallying calls and then allowing player sto go about them in many ways is much more impactful to the players then having them only go about in a pre designed way the developers have designed them to go.
As well, factions could play a much much bigger role if they factored into rallying calls. As I said with the whole Orcs attacking a town thing, that's just one example.
you might have other factions playing roles from many angles, and how the people have worked into factions can impact how those rallying calls turn out.
I can understand and even agree with you. I know the devs talked about tasks that a Shadow knight do that are evil. I imagine that there will be evil rally calls too, maybe building temples and such. Maybe in the city you'll have to build a secret passage to a Necromancer meeting place.
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
Wouldn't that be PvP though?
If so it explains why there is no details on this type of Rallying Call. I doubt they will always function the same way.
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
Wouldn't that be PvP though?
If so it explains why there is no details on this type of Rallying Call. I doubt they will always function the same way.
Yes it would be.
However it could be structured in many ways, from only allowing pvp during that rally call (IE so playrers that take up arms AGAINST the city are open to be attacked by players helping on the other side). Then you oculd also have it to be faction-based, so someone aligned with the orcs would be seen as friendly if you are as well but as an enemy and open to attack if you are in hostile standing with the orcs.
We know there will be pvp of some type, we just don't have any details on it yet.
It wouldn't be sandbox if it had two sides, that's the whole point.
If you want sandbox then ignore the rally call and you're showing your support for sandbox right there. Better than saying there should be two sides is saying that they shouldn't have rally calls.
Let players decide where and how to build cities and what to name them. That's sandbox.
I really hope that we will have player cities that are out in the wilderness and the rally calls will only be for NPC cities. But yeah I agree with your post.
We aren't proposing 'only two sides' but when it comes to Rally Calls there could only be 3 options. Help, hinder or ignore. What your faction or individual (not simply good or evil) chooses to do should be its own choice. You might try to divert resources to your own project through commerce or direct competition, or you could use direct force to stop the project. Opposing factions can either work independently or form alliances under a shared interest. All of which is much more interesting than a fail-proof pve only temporary event akin to GW2.
Originally posted by techninez if i would like to take my char down the dark path be a bit of a naughty boy will the only way ill be able to do that is by doing nothing? i hope there will be a system just as big to people who want to do good and bad there should be quests where you collect the wood ect and players too stop you or make it harder for you... its all sounding very biased or one sided so far, and is not sounding like a really immersive world the do good-er RP should want that more than anything remember this word was molded by war.. i want looting gangs bandits pirates the list goes on.
U will probaly need to go down a dark path to some degree to unlock some of the classes such as Shadowknights, Necromancers, Rogues and probaly quite a few more.
So to the developers it seems playing an "Evil" character or a bad guy, and having deep faction choices that might (logically) make you want to resort to helping the orcs instead of stopping them, this is "griefing."
I can't believe the room of people were clapping as well when the dev said that. So many people can't see the forest for the trees there and understand how much more meaningful gameplay would be when it's free and not so rigidly held in place, where other players can affect how things progress in either directoin.
I am pretty much on your side here, but it does occur to me that in any game with an identified "evil" path or faction, you typically get an imbalance of players flocking to the bad side. Maybe these devs have seen this enough that they are trying to tip the game a bit.
What we know 100% from devs is that rallying calls are how permanent change will work in EQN.
Every server can be on different stages of rallying calls - depending on player participation. But as the poster above said they can only "fail" if nobody does them. But at any point if players decide to do them - you can do them all.
It's a pretty straight forward system - its a long public quest whose result will change the world permanently, and once complete it won't reset, it will most likely unlock the "next" rallying call on the server.
It is not that hard to understand.
What if there are evil rallying calls? Like stealing from a certain town or something? Which can help them be a Necro/Shadow Knight, but doesnt fully damage the world.
Will they keep updating with new rallying calls? It'd be a shame if one server "maxes" out the Rallying Calls EQN had planned out and just have to wait for an expansion or something because they worked together so quickly
Originally posted by techninez if i would like to take my char down the dark path be a bit of a naughty boy will the only way ill be able to do that is by doing nothing? i hope there will be a system just as big to people who want to do good and bad there should be quests where you collect the wood ect and players too stop you or make it harder for you... its all sounding very biased or one sided so far, and is not sounding like a really immersive world the do good-er RP should want that more than anything remember this word was molded by war.. i want looting gangs bandits pirates the list goes on.
Factions are, according to the Dev's, huge in EQN. So is your reputation. Some NPC's won't even talk to you if you have done bad things, or play an evil class or race. Your actions carry weight. For instance, if you want to be a Paladin you have to have lived an exemplary life filled with good deeds. I imagine if you want to be a Necro or Shadowknight you will have to do evil deeds and acts of cruelty. I'm sure we will get more information as time goes one, but yes, your actions have consequences. We just haven't heard about some of the potential ways to be really bad yet in much detail.
Is this pure speculation or is there actual info from an EQN dev or staff that says actions will carry weight? From the remarks about rallying calls and how it cannot fail, that it only does not progress to the next stage gives me the impression that "evil" will not be an option and everything will be one path/objective only and no different than a quest.
True.. using the Halas example.. Call ask you to collect wood.. If you collect wood, you gain faction with new Halas and the city progresses.. This is all great if you wish to be "good" with Halas.. But lets assume you are an evil dark elf and do not want Halas on your lands.. The only option you have is to NOT participate in the call.. NO other choice remains currently.. And lets be honest here too.. If a group of players wish to role play as an evil person and NOT participate in the call, the only effect they will have is that the call will progress at a slower rate.. It's not going to stop or reverse itself.. There are NO EVIL points you can earn for NOT participating in the call.. Basically.. These Rally Calls are just LONG TERM public quest chains.. Some servers will complete calls in weeks, others might take months.. If EQN needs and wants Halas in the game, it will be built regardless of the time it takes..
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but we can pvp around them areas i hope
Or you can simply answer the question, you spend enough time on these forums anyways. I grow tired of watching pointless panels and hype BS and rather spend my time elsewhere, especially since there are a gazillion threads, tweets, panels, and who knows what else. More so since this game is only of moderate interest for me.
Yeah, seems like the only "evil" is griefing. Like tagging all the mobs in a "kill 10 rats" quest.
Hmmm... if they do that then hopefully they'll make it where you have stuff closed off. Like how pirating in EVE has severeve consequences via giving you neg security rating. Hopefully choosing one or the that has impact on your character and not just another quest sort of mechanic.
They really described so far a rally call as one event taking place,
everyone in the world knows about it
it has a start time and it takes months
They seem to imply only one is going to be happening at a time.
It seems odd that one would believe that the entire game community world would revolve around some city going up in some far corner of the continent, I imagine a lot of people will ignore a rally point and work towards personal goals unless said rally point pops up in a place they care about visiting or the rewards are so overwhelming that to ignore it would be detrimental....it could very well just end up being something going on "over there" to a lot of people and something you don't care about. There is nothing wrong with that and I actually hope it is the case, to use a SWG reference would you ditch tatooine, where your shops and crafting are to venture all the way to another planet just to build a city? Maybe if you were bored maybe not.
Again,
We just don't know enough to even speculate at this point, is this a huge event or just an event, what kind of rewards or social aspect are involved, does it open up large scale dynamic content for the raider crowd, or something else? All these were kind of hinted at but all we saw was a hand drawn picture of a village in the woods... They sound interesting but who knows.
This is the main aspect of the game I was disappointed to hear.
The fact that rallying calls can't "fail" and as a player you do not have the choice to work either side.
The rallying call comes to start building up a city, while the orcs come to invade and stop it.
Now to me, this would be absolutely AMAZING if they had the faction-system and game tied into this, and allowed players who were in good standing with the Orcs to actually you know.....HELP the orcs take over the city. If the rallying call could end up in at least the city being built or the orcs taking it over and building an orc'ish city.
So you'd have players trying to help build the city or trying to take it over with the orcs. No one could know which side will win. The game would be much more "dynamic" and you would be tying the faction system, and player choices, into the actual gameplay.
With rallying calls unable to fail, and players unable to play either side, it comes off as nothing more then an "Illusion" of choice.
IT takes away the sense that your actions matter, it takes away the ability for RP'ers to play DIFFERENT characters. (I HATED how in EQ2 if you were "evil" you still played like a GOOD character, helping people, etc).
A true sandbox mmo would allow players, good, neutral, or evil, choices to play how THEY want, not forcing players all to be the "hero" or Mr. Goody Two Shoes.
Yeah........
This is the one part of the game that scares me. It makes me think that Rallying Points are really just GW2's dynamic events but LONGER. In a Dynamic event it really doesn't feel like you affect the world because the only way it fails is if no one does it...THEN the centaurs take over...at least until some random player comes by and feels like starting the the event. The Centaurs don't take over and say "Hey, we have this secured now lets go take over a bigger town!"
It's disappointing. Hopefully though they will have rallying points for evil factions too? I mean certainly they will have a good side with high-elves and a bad side with dark-elves etc etc so maybe that would mean a rallying call for the bad guys too?
The game would be much more dynamic if they let the evil players join in. Even if it was by PVP. He says they don't build a game for griefing but when has open world PVP made for griefing? I get it, new players don't want to get ganked. We all understand that, but all you have to do is when a player starts to do a rallying call then he's flagged for PVP. Problem solved. You now have MEANINGFUL open world PVP and you have a system where players MAKE the world they live in much like EVE...but with better gameplay hopefully...
Like i said earlier, the fact that they HAVE a rally call system - even if it has only a single possible outcome at the beginning - would easily allow them to create a rallying call with two (or more) potential outcomes based (for example) on different faction objectives.
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that what i was trying to say, it would be so much more fun knowing you actually done something mega! who ever won the battle it would be great.
Are you all so addicted to theme park that you can't think anymore?
The rally calls are for people who want to do theme park content. If you're not into it go and do things like a real sandbox game!
Don't try to take sides, cause it wouldn't matter which side you're on you're still on a ride!
Think outside your little boxes, if you hear about a rally call take pride in the fact that you don't even listen, that you're going out and exploring a huge and unexplored world. Let the mindless drones work on building the predetermined city, don't ask to be a drone on the other side.
Asdar
/ This
I really saw Rally Points as a way to introduce a story into a sandbox, a hard thing to do compared to having story elements in the themepark. Look at the Secret World, a grand ol themepark, it has a pretty good story and lots of story elements delivered by the themepark ride, you can not really deliever that in a Sandbox type game...I kind of got the idea from the various Q&A's that this was SOE's method of doing that without being a themepark....there is a larger narrative, it is going on in the world and SOE can kind of craft a metatheme with this rally points while still leaving the majority of the world undisturbed and sandboxy.
Without player assisted fail conditions the rally calls are as meaningless as GW2 temp content.
It wouldn't be sandbox if it had two sides, that's the whole point.
If you want sandbox then ignore the rally call and you're showing your support for sandbox right there. Better than saying there should be two sides is saying that they shouldn't have rally calls.
Let players decide where and how to build cities and what to name them. That's sandbox.
Asdar
They already said though, you can not , as a player, go "against" rallying calls.
In the Q&A panel a person asked this question, if he wanted to "stop" a rallying call or be the "bad guy," the developers LAUGHED at him and said no, they weren't building a game for people to grief.
So to the developers it seems playing an "Evil" character or a bad guy, and having deep faction choices that might (logically) make you want to resort to helping the orcs instead of stopping them, this is "griefing."
You can see this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxE9jVcCsnY
Go to 20:36.
I can't believe the room of people were clapping as well when the dev said that. So many people can't see the forest for the trees there and understand how much more meaningful gameplay would be when it's free and not so rigidly held in place, where other players can affect how things progress in either directoin.
They said the outcomes would depend on what the players do. Which sound like you will have the option to work against the do gooders
I don't think anyones asking for "two" sides, rather they are just asking for logical ways for players to play their characters, good or bad.
Even in EQ2 the "evil" side was so watered down, you felt like a hero rather then a bad guy most of the time.
Having rallying calls and then allowing player sto go about them in many ways is much more impactful to the players then having them only go about in a pre designed way the developers have designed them to go.
As well, factions could play a much much bigger role if they factored into rallying calls. As I said with the whole Orcs attacking a town thing, that's just one example.
you might have other factions playing roles from many angles, and how the people have worked into factions can impact how those rallying calls turn out.
I can understand and even agree with you. I know the devs talked about tasks that a Shadow knight do that are evil. I imagine that there will be evil rally calls too, maybe building temples and such. Maybe in the city you'll have to build a secret passage to a Necromancer meeting place.
Asdar
Wouldn't that be PvP though?
If so it explains why there is no details on this type of Rallying Call. I doubt they will always function the same way.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Yes it would be.
However it could be structured in many ways, from only allowing pvp during that rally call (IE so playrers that take up arms AGAINST the city are open to be attacked by players helping on the other side). Then you oculd also have it to be faction-based, so someone aligned with the orcs would be seen as friendly if you are as well but as an enemy and open to attack if you are in hostile standing with the orcs.
We know there will be pvp of some type, we just don't have any details on it yet.
I really hope that we will have player cities that are out in the wilderness and the rally calls will only be for NPC cities. But yeah I agree with your post.
U will probaly need to go down a dark path to some degree to unlock some of the classes such as Shadowknights, Necromancers, Rogues and probaly quite a few more.
I am pretty much on your side here, but it does occur to me that in any game with an identified "evil" path or faction, you typically get an imbalance of players flocking to the bad side. Maybe these devs have seen this enough that they are trying to tip the game a bit.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
What if there are evil rallying calls? Like stealing from a certain town or something? Which can help them be a Necro/Shadow Knight, but doesnt fully damage the world.
Will they keep updating with new rallying calls? It'd be a shame if one server "maxes" out the Rallying Calls EQN had planned out and just have to wait for an expansion or something because they worked together so quickly
True.. using the Halas example.. Call ask you to collect wood.. If you collect wood, you gain faction with new Halas and the city progresses.. This is all great if you wish to be "good" with Halas.. But lets assume you are an evil dark elf and do not want Halas on your lands.. The only option you have is to NOT participate in the call.. NO other choice remains currently.. And lets be honest here too.. If a group of players wish to role play as an evil person and NOT participate in the call, the only effect they will have is that the call will progress at a slower rate.. It's not going to stop or reverse itself.. There are NO EVIL points you can earn for NOT participating in the call.. Basically.. These Rally Calls are just LONG TERM public quest chains.. Some servers will complete calls in weeks, others might take months.. If EQN needs and wants Halas in the game, it will be built regardless of the time it takes..