If they really wanted to be cool about it, someone should have to see the murder happen, run up and gather some proof from the body, and turn it into a guard. Only then should the killer be punished. So stupid how it's like, "I killed someone, I for some reason and am not as strong as just a minute ago because I lost stats" or some other bullshit.
With that logic, that would only work if they actually stay dead. They do get magically ressurected in a short while so they can easily tell a guard afterwards.
Real world logic doesn't work when you only use it for the small parts you like.
FFA PVP would be the death of EQN before it ever launched. Love or hate FFA PVP, it isn't appealing to mainstream MMORPG players. It's a clear hardcore niche desire and they claim this is not going to be a hardcore game. Any reputation system can be equated to red fighting blue and as such both sides would be catered too. Any game mechanic will see abuse. None of it will stop actual griefing in play.
If they really wanted to be cool about it, someone should have to see the murder happen, run up and gather some proof from the body, and turn it into a guard. Only then should the killer be punished. So stupid how it's like, "I killed someone, I for some reason and am not as strong as just a minute ago because I lost stats" or some other bullshit.
With that logic, that would only work if they actually stay dead. They do get magically ressurected in a short while so they can easily tell a guard afterwards.
Real world logic doesn't work when you only use it for the small parts you like.
There's also the gods and other spirits of otherly-worlds who might take notice, since this is fantasy.
No you don't get to play another character for awhile when imprisoned. if you log out of the character your timer stops. you have to wait every second of every hours there just like all the other prisoners unless you never decide to play that character again.
Server wide price on your head or guild flat lining your economy/guild disband seems harsh enough to me . Having server wide announcements of when a murder(by name) enters a zone and what they have as a bounty can make finding groups as a criminal tense to say the least. Whens the last time you pked someone and then had the other guild retaliate by destroying your markets or sieging your lands so they don't turn a profit. Then you and your guild have to find a way to make money outside of the player market, find out who to trim from the roster to cut guild cost. and if the castle they spent months getting together making is worth keeping anymore. Now your guild has to heavily guard trade routes and farm non stop to keep up with the escalating cost of maintaining a guild or fade into obscurity. All because you ganked that guy for his 5 ore and then decided to camp him.
Real consequences with real punishments. I found it worked quite well in wushu. They had good rules for "legal" pvp and ways for guilds to really have at it using blood feud type mechanics. If you wanted to be a douche they didn't limit the player from doing as such but it has real consequences. It wasn't just some asshat loling on global about camping that level 1 over and over then grouping with his friends. No it was you lol about that guy and his guild set a bounty up for you. Good luck dungeoning tonight. You lol on about camping someone now your guilds under siege and you can't set up a shop for damn near 16 hours because that enemy guild is patrolling every market mowing your afk shops down. Now those trade route contracts you take out for easy escort gold are being vandalized. You don't get it easy for being bad.
I see. That does offer quite a bit, doesn't it. Well worth consideration for this game.
Question for you. You mentioned they had ways to allow safe PvP. Did it, or do you think, that maybe a karma system could be used as an entrance into such safe PvP? (I'm referring to my post earlier in this thread.) In other words, karma as an entrance system to a faction, where PvP is set up against one or more other factions. The gods come to mind here, but it wouldn't have to be limited to just them when a game also has thieves, etc.
I think there's more then enough room for a faction system to be integrated in a karma system. In fact I would think it would almost have to be. A faction after all is a body of like minded individuals and ideals not just a big group of people to party with. Heroes and villains should be rewarded with a place that they can truly call home. Whether its a city guard outpost, a den of thieves in the city or a cave hide away for only blood thirsty murderers.
Factions are a great way to get a player to play their "part" or reevaluate the person they are really becoming. For instance in wushu I was a robber. People would run their fat carts through town i would follow them and out numbered or not I would break and steal what I could. The rewards were mostly garbage but whether it was me or a band of thieves I had an extremely fun time doing it. This lead me to an evil life style that suited my school and had me evade most punishment from them. I would still have some bounties placed on me and guild could harass my shop but it wasn't so bad. I got away from most of the severe punishments because cart robbery was somewhat "legal" pvp. I wasn't griefing I was simply providing danger for the guild escorts getting rich off their easy pony jobs.
I later turned a new leaf and got more involved in the week long wulin tournaments. My school was neutral/evil so I was still within the guide lines of my school (faction) and still followed their guidelines.This was a great turning point for me going from stalking robber to still not so pleasant death match tourney goer. The change from someone who hails from a good school partaking in evil aligned actions is much more severe but appropriate. Things like this really make your character development feel alive and should be hand and hand with the karma system. Many games have tried to set up the foundation for something like this but i can only hope EQ next takes the next step and really pushed this to the forefront. Much like how our choices make who we are in life.
Since we are, after all, social critters it just seems like a real benefit to a MMO to have social elements that foster social growth within their massively online game world. Taking it beyond the clique atmosphere.
Originally posted by KyllienWhy is the only vialble fair solution presented always rejected by the PVP crowd. You can have all the PVP you want as long as it is on a seperate server. Everyone wins that way. Please explain to me why that solution can't work. A don't use a lame excuse like the developers will be lazy and not make a compelling PVP solution on a seperate PVP server as that is a different issue.
Because PvP players are the same genus as griefers. They are not the same species but they both eat the same prey animals, and they do not understand die back. They look for larger herds to feed upon, there need be no other reason.
Unless the goal is to introduce mechanics that the non-consensual PvP players like, it's a waste of time. The people that don't like non-consensual PvP just don't like non-consensual PvP. It doesn't matter what arcane system of rules is introduced, their minds are not going to suddenly change. The only people who might enjoy these mechanics are the people who are already into non-consensual PvP, and if they don't like the mechanics, you're in the same boat as trying to get consensual PvP players into non-consensual PvP games.
**
This is relevant because someone who is into non-consensual PvP is saying they don't like the mechanic. They are the target audience. The consensual PvP people aren't even going to bother trying the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by KyllienWhy is the only vialble fair solution presented always rejected by the PVP crowd. You can have all the PVP you want as long as it is on a seperate server. Everyone wins that way. Please explain to me why that solution can't work. A don't use a lame excuse like the developers will be lazy and not make a compelling PVP solution on a seperate PVP server as that is a different issue.
Because PvP players are the same genus as griefers. They are not the same species but they both eat the same prey animals, and they do not understand die back. They look for larger herds to feed upon, there need be no other reason.
Unless the goal is to introduce mechanics that the non-consensual PvP players like, it's a waste of time. The people that don't like non-consensual PvP just don't like non-consensual PvP. It doesn't matter what arcane system of rules is introduced, their minds are not going to suddenly change. The only people who might enjoy these mechanics are the people who are already into non-consensual PvP, and if they don't like the mechanics, you're in the same boat as trying to get consensual PvP players into non-consensual PvP games.
**
This is relevant because someone who is into non-consensual PvP is saying they don't like the mechanic. They are the target audience. The consensual PvP people aren't even going to bother trying the game.
You're forgetting all the console players who don't have PVP baggage and will ADORE the game.
So in my opinion the goal would be to get all these open-minded folks hooked. And cut down on griefing by using a karma system. I'm not expecting to change the minds of the legacy players who already know decisively that they want consensual PVP only. This game won't be for them.
Comments
Obviously never played on any of the Zek servers in everquest.
With that logic, that would only work if they actually stay dead. They do get magically ressurected in a short while so they can easily tell a guard afterwards.
Real world logic doesn't work when you only use it for the small parts you like.
FFA PVP would be the death of EQN before it ever launched. Love or hate FFA PVP, it isn't appealing to mainstream MMORPG players. It's a clear hardcore niche desire and they claim this is not going to be a hardcore game. Any reputation system can be equated to red fighting blue and as such both sides would be catered too. Any game mechanic will see abuse. None of it will stop actual griefing in play.
There's also the gods and other spirits of otherly-worlds who might take notice, since this is fantasy.
Once upon a time....
Since we are, after all, social critters it just seems like a real benefit to a MMO to have social elements that foster social growth within their massively online game world. Taking it beyond the clique atmosphere.
Once upon a time....
Unless the goal is to introduce mechanics that the non-consensual PvP players like, it's a waste of time. The people that don't like non-consensual PvP just don't like non-consensual PvP. It doesn't matter what arcane system of rules is introduced, their minds are not going to suddenly change. The only people who might enjoy these mechanics are the people who are already into non-consensual PvP, and if they don't like the mechanics, you're in the same boat as trying to get consensual PvP players into non-consensual PvP games.
**
This is relevant because someone who is into non-consensual PvP is saying they don't like the mechanic. They are the target audience. The consensual PvP people aren't even going to bother trying the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You're forgetting all the console players who don't have PVP baggage and will ADORE the game.
So in my opinion the goal would be to get all these open-minded folks hooked. And cut down on griefing by using a karma system. I'm not expecting to change the minds of the legacy players who already know decisively that they want consensual PVP only. This game won't be for them.