The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
The architecture as far as software is still the same though and you can call it bull if you choose to but developer interviews say differently.
They also change the way consoles are built later on to fix problems in the original design they are not upgrades like the term means in PCs,they are improvements to build quality and sidegrades to finer nano architecture parts because those parts have become cheaper but the specs remain the same.
You really dont read what I say, snap reply? You said console stay the same so you can optimize better. I tell you its not true the chip sets change over time on the same console, you admit one of many reason why they do that and then you say they run the same? Specs have nothing to do with the chip sets what it comes to what you call optimized because it stays the same. By your jump all PCs are the same as consoles as its all ATI or Nvid, Intell or..... What you say is true or false. Its cant be both at the same time. What you hope for may one day be. Consoles and PCs can support the same games without a hitch and it will be consumer options but its not there yet. Soon but not yet.
It was not a snap reply and it is you who lacks comprehension.Yes chipsets change in consoles over time but that is because they are using newer transistor technology or technology that has become cheap enough to use,by that I mean they use smaller transistors coming down from 90nm to 60 and smaller.
This is not done to increase performance but to increase reliability and cause less overheating.But the chipsets have all got the same capabilities when it comes to software so the developers do not have to code for 3 or 4 different chipsets.They program the same way for each.It in no way equates going to a different generation of chipsets with PC motherboards.
I never said that PC and consoles will support the same games .I said that cloud computing will potentially mean that you won't have to upgrade to a new console generation or PC because the upgrades will be done on the server side of the cloud.That may further on lead to there being one mega platform but it may not.
No we are not there yet but with the consoles using cloud computing it will increase the demand for it and that demand may force providers to finally bit the bullet and upgrade the nets infrastructure or force governments to step in and make them just as it was forced to do with mobile phones which is why roaming charges are a thing of the past.This can only be good for everyone.
I buy a PC to maximize my gaming experience. The key word in M A X I M I Z E.
OP can you assure me that when this game is designed with the constraints of a console...that my PC graphics experience will be maximized ?
or am I having to settle for kid graphics so Sony can put this game on its Playstation ....selling more Play Stations and securing more console players.....at the expense of my gaming experience ?
If you truly maximize, then you should know that maximizing settings doesn't take anywhere near maximum available hardware. Especially for games like an MMORPG!
A GTX 660 will likely be more than enough to maximize the game, which means the console will likely be more than enough to maximize the game. Therefore, the consoles will even likely be able to handle some upgrades without falling behind. Furthermore, there is no rule that the PS4 and PC need to run at the same quality. So there is no reason that the game can't see possible graphics upgrades in the future.
I buy a PC to maximize my gaming experience. The key word in M A X I M I Z E.
OP can you assure me that when this game is designed with the constraints of a console...that my PC graphics experience will be maximized ?
or am I having to settle for kid graphics so Sony can put this game on its Playstation ....selling more Play Stations and securing more console players.....at the expense of my gaming experience ?
I am a PC gamer first before any other gaming device; I am not designing the game; I am trying to figure out the negative effects for the PC gamer if EQN is on console; and I want my gaming experience to be maximized as well, but I have a hard time seeing the negative from cross platform games.
Please specify what constraints?
The art style was chosen by SOE for a few reasons from SOEmote, to a broader audience and it lasts longer in years then realistic graphic styles. I love realistic art style. I prefer it over the art style they have chosen, but that won't be my deal breaker for the game.
I buy a PC to maximize my gaming experience. The key word in M A X I M I Z E.
OP can you assure me that when this game is designed with the constraints of a console...that my PC graphics experience will be maximized ?
or am I having to settle for kid graphics so Sony can put this game on its Playstation ....selling more Play Stations and securing more console players.....at the expense of my gaming experience ?
If you truly maximize, then you should know that maximizing settings doesn't take anywhere near maximum available hardware. Especially for games like an MMORPG!
A GTX 660 will likely be more than enough to maximize the game, which means the console will likely be more than enough to maximize the game. Therefore, the consoles will even likely be able to handle some upgrades without falling behind. Furthermore, there is no rule that the PS4 and PC need to run at the same quality. So there is no reason that the game can't see possible graphics upgrades in the future.
I agree. Isn't that what video settings are for? For different computers to handle the game?
Originally posted by solarbear88 Limited Skills, dumbed down classes, dodgy communities, death of party roles
Consoles are going to be great for the MMO.
That's odd last time I checked that's the route MMOs have been heading down for years and it has nothing to do with consoles
It does a little. Most players first online games are FPS and most come from consoles. Players often come to MMO's from FPS games and the developers wish to hold onto them for a while. The players make demands of the debvelopers. So slowly the games have become more streamlined. The 2 most obvious to me:
Class systems would be one way. In order to have tighter control over Warfront style pvp most of the classes in many recent MMO's are very streamlined. I can't think of a game since GW1 that allowed true multiclassing. Usually the class trees are for streamlining rather than diversifying aka Tera, GW2, WOW, Aion (sorta), WHO. I suppose Rift had a form of multiclassing but, at least with Warrior, a lot of the abilities didn't necessarily mix all that well, so it was a bit disappointing.
Combat would be another. Its no longer enough to understand an area or the mob's strengths and weaknesses and develop a strategy to conquer it. You now have to dodge, block, aim crosshairs and other FPS staples in an MMO (Tera has all these and EQNext looks to be following). A large shift from mostly strategy to mostly action. When I played GW2 it was basically fire off skills while dodging red circles. I am not too sure where the strategy was. I assume it was hidden deep below their spammy combat. And it might have been fun for some but many were put off.
If EQ is a sandbox I am not seeing it. To me its as themeparky as WOW or GW2. I think the developers have fooled themselves and made a lot of design choices to inadvertently appease console players. It carries the name EQ but doesn't seem to hold to the principals that made EQ. And TBH I never really got into EQ, but I can appreciate what the game stood for to many people.
I can understand that FPS might have lead to the more action twitch style gaming in some of todays MMOs but how you can single out console FPS and there players as the cause of this is beyond me. The FPS was a PC staple first and foremost long before consoles.
The reason MMOs are heading the direction of twitchy action in my opinion is because to some developers and players this is the natural evolution of the combat. I don't like that direction my self but that's just the way it seems to be going.
Honestly it's not even worth discussing, you and some others that have posted in this thread will try and take any line of reasoning you can think of to come out with the console as the root of all evil lol. I have a news flash for all of you, console and PC players are not this separate set of gamers like you would love to believe, they are all just gamers lol.
SoE said that Planetside 2 will have max graphics setting and still retain 2000 player cap on its sandbox map for PS4 version so this is not really a problem anymore.
Well...I don't see the problem then besides chatting between the platforms.
SOE in the past,
supported cross server and cross game chat (EQ1, Planetside, SWG, EQ2, Vanguard)
SoE said that Planetside 2 will have max graphics setting and still retain 2000 player cap on its sandbox map for PS4 version so this is not really a problem anymore.
Well...I don't see the problem then besides chatting between the platforms.
SOE in the past,
supported cross server and cross game chat (EQ1, Planetside, SWG, EQ2, Vanguard)
SoE said that Planetside 2 will have max graphics setting and still retain 2000 player cap on its sandbox map for PS4 version so this is not really a problem anymore.
Well...I don't see the problem then besides chatting between the platforms.
SOE in the past,
supported cross server and cross game chat (EQ1, Planetside, SWG, EQ2, Vanguard)
FFXI was crossplatform. Playstation users were able to play with PC users. They allowed keyboards to be plugged in and quick chat commands.
I could totally see PS4 supporting bluetooth mouse and keyboard. It's really just an easy chipset thing that is going into alot of motherboards these days. And I also seem to remember that (not sure about PS4) XBox one was planning on having higher specs under the hood over time at different price points. So you could maybe buy the budget version if you didn't need or care about certain functions like blue tooth or higher CPU speeds or beefier graphics chipsets or more ram. Basically I could see them charging huge for a 3.4Ghz quad core with the latest fast nVidia offering eventually through this type of deal. Then really there would be no distinguishing between pc and console except OS...which also could change.
SoE said that Planetside 2 will have max graphics setting and still retain 2000 player cap on its sandbox map for PS4 version so this is not really a problem anymore.
Well...I don't see the problem then besides chatting between the platforms.
SOE in the past,
supported cross server and cross game chat (EQ1, Planetside, SWG, EQ2, Vanguard)
FFXI was crossplatform. Playstation users were able to play with PC users. They allowed keyboards to be plugged in and quick chat commands.
I could totally see PS4 supporting bluetooth mouse and keyboard. It's really just an easy chipset thing that is going into alot of motherboards these days. And I also seem to remember that (not sure about PS4) XBox one was planning on having higher specs under the hood over time at different price points. So you could maybe buy the budget version if you didn't need or care about certain functions like blue tooth or higher CPU speeds or beefier graphics chipsets or more ram. Basically I could see them charging huge for a 3.4Ghz quad core with the latest fast nVidia offering eventually through this type of deal. Then really there would be no distinguishing between pc and console except OS...which also could change.
PS3 controller with chat pad, PS4 controller with clickable touch pad (no idea if chat pad will be made). While not as good as keyboard/mouse to me, I'm sure they will do just fine for others.
I buy a PC to maximize my gaming experience. The key word in M A X I M I Z E.
OP can you assure me that when this game is designed with the constraints of a console...that my PC graphics experience will be maximized ?
or am I having to settle for kid graphics so Sony can put this game on its Playstation ....selling more Play Stations and securing more console players.....at the expense of my gaming experience ?
If you truly maximize, then you should know that maximizing settings doesn't take anywhere near maximum available hardware. Especially for games like an MMORPG!
A GTX 660 will likely be more than enough to maximize the game, which means the console will likely be more than enough to maximize the game. Therefore, the consoles will even likely be able to handle some upgrades without falling behind. Furthermore, there is no rule that the PS4 and PC need to run at the same quality. So there is no reason that the game can't see possible graphics upgrades in the future.
I agree. Isn't that what video settings are for? For different computers to handle the game?
Exactly. The people complaining about the consoles hurting EQN graphics are way off base. If this game didn't release at the same time as the consoles, then they might have an argument, but that simply isn't the case. I am not saying consoles are good for MMOs, because I don't think they are, but it is clearly for different reasons.
Why is the concept so difficult to grasp for people here? If game is made for console it has to be dumbed down in every aspect. That is the only way it can play on consoles. PC's are far and away more powerful than consoles. Therefore in order to make it work on console, they have to optimize it for that platform and not take advantage of the power PC's have. Console players want people to believe that PS4 is going to be so wonderful, and it may be, for a console. It will still never hold a candle to a PC.
Power wise, both PS4 and XBOne are much more powerful than the average modern PC and could easily max all current MMOs. If we were talking about the current, outdated generation of consoles, you'd be right, but not in this case.
No, the thing that could really harm EQN is the way consoles are controlled. Console games have to work well with controllers and that often leads to consolitis in UI and gameplay design. Defiance is a good example of this.
No point even arguing if you believe that.
You sound limited..
We already know the specs to both the new Xbox & PS4 and we already know that the internals are more powerful than most PC is people's home.
Obviously, those who have a brand new computers and are playing BF3 will have a more powerful system than the PS4/Xbox1.. but the new consoles will definitely have more power than the AVERAGE PERSON'S COMPUTER.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
"To me graphics is my immersion factor and puts what type of game I am playing into perspective....."
"On a good note, EQN does have nice features that they will be introducing, but I don't think it will be enough to hold my interest like the original EQ did"
did you just relate graphics to immersion and how long a game will hold your attention - then you mention the original EQ ?
Dragons that were six polygons, frogloks that looked like ****, Kobolds that looked like ****, gelantinous cubes with there 3 animation frames, flat one dimensional tree's that rotated with your viewport ? the graphics were not even close to what could be achieved in 1999 - yet you still played and loved it by all accounts so how can graphic quality or style really matter so much to you now ?
Comments
It was not a snap reply and it is you who lacks comprehension.Yes chipsets change in consoles over time but that is because they are using newer transistor technology or technology that has become cheap enough to use,by that I mean they use smaller transistors coming down from 90nm to 60 and smaller.
This is not done to increase performance but to increase reliability and cause less overheating.But the chipsets have all got the same capabilities when it comes to software so the developers do not have to code for 3 or 4 different chipsets.They program the same way for each.It in no way equates going to a different generation of chipsets with PC motherboards.
I never said that PC and consoles will support the same games .I said that cloud computing will potentially mean that you won't have to upgrade to a new console generation or PC because the upgrades will be done on the server side of the cloud.That may further on lead to there being one mega platform but it may not.
No we are not there yet but with the consoles using cloud computing it will increase the demand for it and that demand may force providers to finally bit the bullet and upgrade the nets infrastructure or force governments to step in and make them just as it was forced to do with mobile phones which is why roaming charges are a thing of the past.This can only be good for everyone.
If you truly maximize, then you should know that maximizing settings doesn't take anywhere near maximum available hardware. Especially for games like an MMORPG!
A GTX 660 will likely be more than enough to maximize the game, which means the console will likely be more than enough to maximize the game. Therefore, the consoles will even likely be able to handle some upgrades without falling behind. Furthermore, there is no rule that the PS4 and PC need to run at the same quality. So there is no reason that the game can't see possible graphics upgrades in the future.
I am a PC gamer first before any other gaming device; I am not designing the game; I am trying to figure out the negative effects for the PC gamer if EQN is on console; and I want my gaming experience to be maximized as well, but I have a hard time seeing the negative from cross platform games.
Please specify what constraints?
The art style was chosen by SOE for a few reasons from SOEmote, to a broader audience and it lasts longer in years then realistic graphic styles. I love realistic art style. I prefer it over the art style they have chosen, but that won't be my deal breaker for the game.
I agree. Isn't that what video settings are for? For different computers to handle the game?
I can understand that FPS might have lead to the more action twitch style gaming in some of todays MMOs but how you can single out console FPS and there players as the cause of this is beyond me. The FPS was a PC staple first and foremost long before consoles.
The reason MMOs are heading the direction of twitchy action in my opinion is because to some developers and players this is the natural evolution of the combat. I don't like that direction my self but that's just the way it seems to be going.
Honestly it's not even worth discussing, you and some others that have posted in this thread will try and take any line of reasoning you can think of to come out with the console as the root of all evil lol. I have a news flash for all of you, console and PC players are not this separate set of gamers like you would love to believe, they are all just gamers lol.
No signature, I don't have a pen
SOE in the past,
supported cross server and cross game chat (EQ1, Planetside, SWG, EQ2, Vanguard)
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/tells.html
http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/slash_commands_%28eq2%29
I dont know about cross platform tho
EQ2 fan sites
FFXI was crossplatform. Playstation users were able to play with PC users. They allowed keyboards to be plugged in and quick chat commands.
I could totally see PS4 supporting bluetooth mouse and keyboard. It's really just an easy chipset thing that is going into alot of motherboards these days. And I also seem to remember that (not sure about PS4) XBox one was planning on having higher specs under the hood over time at different price points. So you could maybe buy the budget version if you didn't need or care about certain functions like blue tooth or higher CPU speeds or beefier graphics chipsets or more ram. Basically I could see them charging huge for a 3.4Ghz quad core with the latest fast nVidia offering eventually through this type of deal. Then really there would be no distinguishing between pc and console except OS...which also could change.
PS3 controller with chat pad, PS4 controller with clickable touch pad (no idea if chat pad will be made). While not as good as keyboard/mouse to me, I'm sure they will do just fine for others.
Exactly. The people complaining about the consoles hurting EQN graphics are way off base. If this game didn't release at the same time as the consoles, then they might have an argument, but that simply isn't the case. I am not saying consoles are good for MMOs, because I don't think they are, but it is clearly for different reasons.
You sound limited..
We already know the specs to both the new Xbox & PS4 and we already know that the internals are more powerful than most PC is people's home.
Obviously, those who have a brand new computers and are playing BF3 will have a more powerful system than the PS4/Xbox1.. but the new consoles will definitely have more power than the AVERAGE PERSON'S COMPUTER.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I always vote with my wallet, and continue to do so.
if SOE thinks Beauty and the beast is the best way for their mmo to be played then so be it.
I just wont follow that trend.
http://www.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://thetangential.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Beauty-and-the-Beast-beauty-and-the-beast-309492_1024_768.jpg&imgrefurl=http://thetangential.com/2013/01/07/a-disney-prince-guide-to-getting-the-girl/beauty-and-the-beast-beauty-and-the-beast-309492_1024_768/&h=768&w=1024&sz=362&tbnid=wJd-sKb6khuLxM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=140&zoom=1&usg=__RrHGXcUoyoZ68D46KHBCTE50NkQ=&docid=M0PZbkt27gJOWM&sa=X&ei=7mIbUpr-GIeUhQev84CwBQ&ved=0CDkQ9QEwAg&dur=3052
WoW / GW1 / GW2 have shown you can have the engine without the disney characters.
SOE just took it to the Next Level.
But its just my opinion.
Hope they have succes with it, but i will stay away from that unless the gameplay is realy out of this world, but even that seems not to be the case.
Watched the whole presentation and it just looks way to similar to GW2 wich is one zerging mob pressing buttan wich doesnt even matter.
Just whack a few times and poof stuff dies.